[Discussion] Iguana no musume

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I must say that I'm perplexed like everyone else when it comes to Rika saying that she cannot love her child no matter how much she tries... o____0 So all the affection she's been bestowing her daughter is fake? And Rika's indeed usually so loving and forgivable... plus she doesn't seem to be seeing the daugher as an iguana so what's the big deal? I thought Rika had learnt to love herself, but if she can't love her own daughter since the child is a quater iguana (something like that, right? Rika ought to be half-iguana, since her father was human) then the it's rather contradicting... also the daugher ought to be more "human" than Rika if you wanna analyze it like that.

Anyway, I think it was touching that Rika named her daughter after her mother Smile

And the ending was kinda bittersweet Crying

*when the scene switched to Rika being hugged by her mom*

Thank you again awrittensin for sharing this great drama with us ^^

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

To anyone who read or remembers the manga, can you let us in on any differences between the manga and drama version? I've never read the manga, but now I'm a bit curious to see what happened.

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Well, the drama is a bit more melodramatic, and it has more characters. In the manga, there is no Nobuko or Kaori. Rika's mother isn't as malevolent towards Rika. It's more like there is nothing Rika can do to ever please her, and she's too hard on her. (Basically, it's like her mom just finds her really irritating)

Oh, and there was no romantic subplot with Noboru; he was just a childhood friend Rika played baseball with. She loved baseball, but was forced to stop because Rika's mother was upset when Mami got hit in the face when she tried to pick up a rolling baseball. In other words, Mami was the cute, sweet one, and Rika was the tomboy.

Mami didn't grow to respect Rika because of Rika standing up for her, it was because she realized that she looked down upon Rika because her mother had set her that example. Once she learned how smart Rika really was, she changed her outlook on ehr older sister.

Perhaps the biggest change is that since this is told from Rika's perspective, we only see her "human" form two or three times (once, when the perspective changes to Mami's view). The rest of the time, she is in iguana form, even when she grows up.

Another big change is that Rika accepts that she is an iguana, and while this causes her some pain (such as thinking about how coldblooded she must be not to be crying over her mother's death) and distance from other people, there isn't a "Oh, I have to change myself so people will love me and I'll be happy!" attitude. She's been told so many times how ugly she is that she just accepts that she is ugly, even though she's quite pretty. (As a semi-humorous aside, she chooses her boyfriend because he's too big for her to eat, as she had a nightmare about eating the last boy who expressed interest in her.)

At the end of the manga, Rika still can't bring herself to love her mother (actually, the line is almost exactly the same as the one in the drama about her daughter...weird), but she's accepted her conflicted feelings, and I believe, will live a happy life with her husband and her child (both of whom she loves very much).

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Wow, musouka, that is quite a difference from the drama! It's interesting that she and Noboru weren't together in the manga - I guess they just had to think up things that were dramatic. I guess RIka never really did cry after she found out her mom died in the drama, now that I think about it. Or if she did, it was only a tear or two. I can't remember. (even though I just subbed the episodes like, last week Alcoholic

)

Thanks a lot for filling us in!

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Thanks musouka for filling us in on the differences with the manga.

@awrittensin: Rika definitely did cry for her mom. (I went back to check.) I guess the problem with subbing is that you have to focus on what's being spoken and some of the non-verbal stuff may become less distinct. Smile

I was puzzling over the same line as everyone else. I kept trying to tie in Rika's father's explanation of how Rika's mom loved Rika too much. I kept pondering whether it was possible for a parent to love a child so much that the parent feels that he/she is not giving the child the love that the child deserves? And that Rika loved her own child so much that she thought she wasn't loving her child enough.

But working through musouka's comments helped. It helped me to rethink Rika's father's explanation too. I think the explanation was expressing how much Rika's mom dearly wanted to related and feel attached to Rika.

But on the fairy tale level of this story, to acknowledge the relationship would force Rika's mom to face her own nature, which violated the fundamental pact between the iguana princess and the witch. The violation of the pact would forfeit the iguana princess' right to happiness (and it seemed to life). So, it was a choice between loving her daughter and her own happiness. In the end, she chose to sacrifice herself and to love her daughter. On this level, Rika understood how much her mom ultimately loved her.

On a more human level, I think it says that there exists situations and times - sometimes inexplicable - where a parent may feel unable to related to a child or otherwise feels detached. It does not necessarily mean that the connections do not exist, and that by not dwelling on these feelings, it is possible to work beyond it. (I have no idea if this is psychologically valid, but it seemed to be a message of the drama.)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Thanks musouka, for the manga info. Laugh

at the boyfriend selection criteria

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Thanks for responding auroragb. I agree with your point that some parents are more stern the more they love their kids. (One of the themes that struck me with Joou no Kyoushitsu - another drama that I like a lot.) And this definitely plays a part in Rika's relationship with her mom. But as you said, there's really a mix of other things thrown into this relationship. It is a rather complex relationship.

Hi everyone (spoiler alert for last episode, question, comment to translator, etc)

I wasn't going to post here until watching the last episode, and it seems that everyone is bothered or confused by the same line as I was (Rika not being able to love her daughter). Maybe awrittensin could clarify something -- is it clear that she means herself (Rika) cannot come to love her daughter, or is Rika perhaps just repeating her mother's words about the mom not being able to love her daugther? I don't see how someone can hug their daughter so tight (and the other things she mentioned) without loving her... doesn't that means the hugs and emotions aren't genuine? Rika's mom couldn't love Rika, but she showed it. Everything (even the opening in Ep 1 where they're in the bath together) the viewer sees shows Rika loving her child. That's what I don't get.

Quick comment to awrittensin if I may (I tried to email you about this instead but email to your gmail got bounced back). I noticed you use one phrase a lot in "Ame to Yume" and a few times in "Iguana" as well, and just wanted to point out a minor correction if you don't mind. I think the phrase was something like "all of the sudden" but the correct phrase is actually "all of a sudden" (I think that was it... there was a phrase you kept using where it should've been "a" instead of "the",... sorry, this is by memory now, just thought I'd mention it).

Also want to THANK YOU for all the work you do and bringing out these dramas. I've really, really enjoyed "Ame to Yume" and now have just finished and enjoyed "Iguana" as well.

(spoiler alert for "Ame" below):
Off topic I know, but I just have to say very quickly, for those who watched "Ame", there was only ONE thing I thought was missing... and that's in the final episode, what was missing was a shot of Ame getting out of the ferris wheel car alone. Everyone hugs in the car, and then the happy music starts, but even though she's going to be OK, it really would have been nice to see just a 10 second shot of Ame walking out of the ferris wheel alone before the music starts. Ah well.

Any more comments on this final episode of Iguana, I'd love to read them.
I don't know anything about Glass Mask, will have to check it out and read up about it!

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: More thoughts Post Rating: 0

Hm... yeah it just doesn't seem to fit with the way Rika is, or make sense. And (at least the way it was presented in the dorama) I don't buy that Rika's mom was "really a good person" or "loved Rika too much." If so then even while being bad towards her directly, she would have done good things to her indirectly. The way it was presented at least, I just don't buy it. Sure she stepped in front of a car to save another child, but she'd still rather die than simply just touch her own daughter.

By the way, from an earlier post:
>>So did anyone else think it was ridiculous that 2 people in the show died from walking out into the road and getting hit by cars?

You'd think by now Jdorama characters should know: it's always safe to cross the street anytime within the first 40 minutes of an episode. But crossing a street in the last 5 minutes of an episode means there's going to be trouble. Nobuko dying was a shock, but I knew from the very first episode that the mom would die before the end, because of the baby in the very beginning having the same name as the mom (Yuriko). Someone ought to publish a list of J-dorama "rules" such as these Smile

So the iguana mark gets transferred from the mom to Rika. Will it then get transferred from Rika to her daugther when Rika dies, and the cycle of not loving their daughters continue generation after generation? The mom may have taken away the sadness, but Rika still can't love her daughter.

Quote:
>>At the end of the manga, Rika still can't bring herself to love her mother (actually, the line is almost exactly the same as the one in the drama about her daughter...weird), but she's accepted her conflicted feelings, and I believe, will live a happy life with her husband and her child (both of whom she loves very much).

See, this makes much more sense. Just curious, but in the manga (and thanks for posting the info about it) is the baby human? Does it seem like the cycle "ends" finally? With the Jdorama, it seems as it if will keep on going, with the Iguana mark being transferred and Rika not being able to love her daughter, maybe the mark will then transfer to her daugther etc through the generations.

Anyway, still a very good show, thanks for bringing it out!

Two quick questions:
What's the name of the (American) pop song that keeps playing throughout the episodes?
How long is the manga (how many volumes), and I was just curious if it was really shojo style (pretty boys etc) or more generic. I might be interested in trying to find it, but am not too big of a fan of shojo style (sorry) Smile

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: More thoughts Post Rating: 0

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: More thoughts Post Rating: 0

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:02 pm Post subject: Misc stuffs Post Rating: 0

Heh, thanks for the reply and samples of the artwork.

Can I ask: in the manga, does Mami ever find out about the Iguana story, or (like the drama) is she totally in the dark about the Iguana thing?

I was curious, and (especially because it's just one volume) decided to order it.
If anyone's interested I'll put the ISBN numbers here, though you may have a hard time, as it's not current. The local Kinokuniya didn't have it, but are shipping it from another one that had one copy left (sorry, I've taken that one, heh). But there are other places to find them, and if anyone's interested, here are the ISBN numbers.
Looks like the original version came out in 1994(?) and that ISBN number is:
4-09-172032-3
Sasuga Books (www.sasugabooks.com) has it listed if you type in "iguana" in the search box, but I don't know if it's in stock. They show this older original version.
Then in 2000 they came out with a smaller reprint of it, it seems.
ISBN is: 4-09-1913814.
I'll have a read of it when mine comes in about a week or so, and compare it to the drama. Thankfully it seems it's not too difficult level of Japanese from the scans you posted so it'll be interesting to compare the two.

The one thing I hated about the drama was the synth score (sounded really cheesy, and they only had a few synth cues that they played over and over -- much less choice than most dramas that have at least a CD's worth of cues to choose from). Acting was pretty good though -- especially the supporting players (Mami, Hashimoto, and Nobuko). The dad (forget his name) is exactly the same character and mannerisms as when he was in the 1994 version of Minami-kun no Koibito.