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Puppet Princess Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Total posts: 1498 Location: Hawaii Age: 19 Gender: Female |
 Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Well.... why work when Japan has let him milk the crap out of Winter Sonta? They are still doing it too what with the Winter Sonata anime he's voicing.... lol
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bellezaJoined: 21 Jan 2007 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
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jholicJoined: 03 Feb 2004 Total posts: 6273 Location: missin' hawaii Gender: Male |
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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kobe23Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Total posts: 736 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 29 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| groink wrote: | | I didn't think electronics was a part of the Korean wave. I still don't think it is. |
Well yes, I guess electronics isn't directly part of the Korean wave, but I used it as an example that people aren't into Korean stuff just because it's Korean, but because it's good.
| Quote: | | Again, you're labeling by association. If everyone at Samsung or LG were Korean nationalists, then that's one thing. But from my sources, there are many engineers there that originate from places like the Phillipines, India, Japan, America... Rain is a product of Korea and the wave. Don't assume that corporations are. |
You're being way too technical here. Yes, I'm sure there are Samsung engineers who come from all over the world, but at the end of the day, it's still a Korean company which produces what the public recognizes as Korean products.
| Quote: | | The whole wave movement is based on a bunch of people who, for example, watch a TV drama and then start eating the food because of the TV drama. This train of thought is so much near that of sheep. So YES, you are correct in that I'm insinuating that Hallyu fans are in fact mindless drones who follow everything Korean. THAT'S the entire foundation of the Hallyu! |
The whole point of the post was about whether the Korean wave is waning, and not about the consequences of people's behavior due to the wave. Regardless, I still don't see the problem with people eating food because they saw it in a TV drama. In your mind you see that as being a sheep, but that's what popular culture is all about. You see people tour Korea because of a TV drama; are they sheep too?
| Quote: | | Based on logic alone, if something else in this world comes along that's just as addicting as things Korean, those Korean things will be pushed aside - along with things Japanese and American. So that would blow your theory. But you believe that things Korean are going to keep increasing in quality and popularity regardless of what might happen in the future. Elitism and ethnocentrism - big time! |
I never said Korean things will increase in quality and popularity forever! Of course something else will come along and push it aside, but at this stage it still looks likes it's gonna grow. And believe it or not, but currently there are many people (including myself) who have totally ditched American entertainment in favor of Korean entertainment. That is quite significant considering American entertainment is the primary form of entertainment in most developed countries. If you look at past waves like the HK wave, it really was just an "on-the-side" kinda thing and was never meant to be a replacement to American entertainment.
But most importantly though, I don't see anything elitist or ethnocentric about the whole Korean wave thing. I think you're being a bit cynical about that groink 
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kobe23Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Total posts: 736 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 29 Gender: Male |
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bellezaJoined: 21 Jan 2007 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Quote: | | After two years of k-dramas, I am too, finding it to be a bit repetitive, but k-dramas are constantly evolving and doesn't seem to stagnate as much as say Chinese dramas |
This year's shaping up to be Hallyu Mania. We got Illjimae, East of Eden, Dae Mool, Spotlight, Gourmet, Beethoven Virus (remake of Nodame), Painter of the Wind, maybe Cain and Abel, maybe Boys over Flowers, maybe When It's At Night. In terms of ratings, oh yes there will be blood. 
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jess22Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Total posts: 38 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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I agree with Hanjae's sentiment that the wave isn't so much waning as it is becoming normalized. A lot of non-Korean Asians are now familiar with Korean entertainment and culture that it's now a part of their lifestyle.
What I mean is, during the wave, most people were willing to watch anything that was Korean, just because that's the trend. But now, the viewers are much more savvy and will actually pick and choose which shows to watch.
So k-dramas need to be that much better to get their attention.
This is just like the Hong Kong wave and the Japanese wave. Initially anything from those areas was deemed super-trendy, but now it's more normalized and people are pickier.
***
This competition is good though and I do think any country in the region could pick it up again.
The one reason America media is so popular is that they get talent from all over the world (well mainly English-speaking talent). So because of that, they are able to attract a larger market.
Another reason is how much money American production companies put into their entertainment. With budgets like that, it's no wonder they are so prominent.
So that's what I would love to see happen in Asian entertainment. Where various production companies pool together their resources and talent to produce quality entertainment. How great would it be to see stars from China, Korean, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc. ?
The only problem would be either standardizing on a language, or somehow improve the dubbing technology/methods.
Anyway, sorry for going off topic a bit!
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bellezaJoined: 21 Jan 2007 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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[QUOTE}and if the selected casts of any of those kdramas is like the one for Boys Over Flowers,[/QUOTE]
I just hope they take a page from Meteor Garden and recast the show in college. Korea doesn't really have the equivalent of a "Johnny drama", and so it would be difficult finding strong <22 leads for all F4 and Makino. For example, I don't think you could cast Lee Min Ki as a teenager now.
The past 2 years, there's definitely been a "J-wave" in Korea, and Korea's produced some of their most memorable dramas from Japanese sources. 200 Lbs Beauty, Dal Ja Spring, One Fine Day, I Am Sam, Alone in Love, White Tower, etc. To me, the most interesting remake is going to be the remake of Nodame Cantabile (i.e Beethoven Virus.) Nodame was such a hit in Korea (and the rest of Asia of course) that Ueno Juri visited Korea to do press. I even said in the Korean HYD thread that Nodame, due to its unique style, was a "untouchable" show for adaptation and didn't think any country would even try. But, that all changed for me when the director of Damo and Fashion 70s signed up for the project. Given the talent going into the project, this could be a great drama.
Now if only somebody would make a Korean or Japanese version of Mars . . .
| Quote: | | What I mean is, during the wave, most people were willing to watch anything that was Korean, just because that's the trend. But now, the viewers are much more savvy and will actually pick and choose which shows to watch. |
I think for me, the key appeal of Hallyu has been how foreign investment and international sales has enabled Korean dramas to reach higher artistically. From the very first episode of The Legend, it's just so obvious that this benchmark-setting event (similar to what Damo was in 2003) could not have been possible without the "Hallyu economy."
But, alternately, the continuing influence of Japanese, Taiwanese, and American product into Korea has also reshaped audience expectations of what a good show should be. The "made for cable" cult dramas that OCN and other cable stations are financing are the future of K-drama. Combining elements associated with Korean film, Japanese drama, and American cable TV, the difference in the quality of writing, topical originality, and direction is staggering, like comparing HBO to ABC. And, regardless of they perform domestically (a 1% rating is considered well enough for a cable drama, talk about being free from expectations!), they procure international sales (especially to the Western/North American market) in order to subsidize the costs of making these dramas. It's a matter of economic and market entropy that K-drama will evolve into doing their own Wire, their own Sopranos. They've already done a take on Sex and the City.
| Quote: | | How great would it be to see stars from China, Korean, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc. ? |
Yeah I think Chinese-Korean collaborations (i.e. Jang Nara, Chae Rim) have become common now. Probably moreso in the future as Mandarin continues to be offered in all Asian schools. Also, there's significant overlap in net culture -- you got Chinese and Korean netizens, Chinese and Korean ullzangs, probably Chinese and Korean plastic surgeons . . .
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kobe23Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Total posts: 736 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 29 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| jess22 wrote: |
So k-dramas need to be that much better to get their attention.
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I don't think it's as simple as just making better dramas. I think I'm not wrong in saying that most people regard the first k-drama they've seen as their favorite - Not necessarily because it's the best, but because of the initial excitement of the "first time" and the sentimental value thereafter. The 2 dramas I remember most are Full House and Autumn Tale. I still have very fond and vivid memories of those dramas but they are nowhere near the best I've seen.
| Quote: | | This competition is good though and I do think any country in the region could pick it up again. |
I don't ever see HK entertainment at the levels it was in the 80s and 90s again. These days everything coming out of Hong Kong cinema seems like something cooked up by EEG just to promote Twins and Edison Chen . Pre-scandal anyway
| Quote: | | Another reason is how much money American production companies put into their entertainment. With budgets like that, it's no wonder they are so prominent. |
Having a big budget helps a great deal when it comes to marketing, but I have found Hollywood, despite spending hundreds of millions more than Chungmuro, can still produce an vastly inferior product. Just look at their remakes of Asian films!
| Quote: | So that's what I would love to see happen in Asian entertainment. Where various production companies pool together their resources and talent to produce quality entertainment. How great would it be to see stars from China, Korean, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc. ?
The only problem would be either standardizing on a language, or somehow improve the dubbing technology/methods. |
That is great to see collaborations between the big Asian countries and it has already happened with little success. Perhaps the language barrier is a problem as you said, but I don't think improving dubbing methods is the answer
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jess22Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Total posts: 38 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| belleza wrote: | | I think for me, the key appeal of Hallyu has been how foreign investment and international sales has enabled Korean dramas to reach higher artistically. From the very first episode of The Legend, it's just so obvious that this benchmark-setting event (similar to what Damo was in 2003) could not have been possible without the "Hallyu economy." |
That's one thing that really impresses me with k-dramas is how much they pay attention to the details. From clothing, to music, to the sets.
Like in Coffee Prince and Soulmate the music as just fantastic and really fit the scene. And like you mentioned, in The Legend the sets and clothing were amazing.
| belleza wrote: | | Yeah I think Chinese-Korean collaborations (i.e. Jang Nara, Chae Rim) have become common now. Probably moreso in the future as Mandarin continues to be offered in all Asian schools. Also, there's significant overlap in net culture -- you got Chinese and Korean netizens, Chinese and Korean ullzangs, probably Chinese and Korean plastic surgeons . . . |
I know these collaborations do pretty well in China & Taiwan. But do you know how they fare in Korea? Are people turned off by the dubbing? Or do they re-dub it in Korean?
They re-dubbed Bicheonmu didn't they? I know for Chinese audiences, most of them are ok with the dubbing, since we're used to the Cantonese-to-Mandarin dubs. Also, Taiwan's dubbing is really, really good so I think a lot of people are OK with it.
| kobe23 wrote: | | That is great to see collaborations between the big Asian countries and it has already happened with little success. Perhaps the language barrier is a problem as you said, but I don't think improving dubbing methods is the answer |
Yeah, unfortunately the language barrier is the biggest obstacle.
I was thinking with how advanced computer technology is, perhaps they could pitch the dubbers voice so that it's similar to the real actors voice. And use some kind of computer modification to make the mouths match the language! kekeke... ok, not sure how sci-fi that is...
| kobe23 wrote: | | I don't think it's as simple as just making better dramas. I think I'm not wrong in saying that most people regard the first k-drama they've seen as their favorite - Not necessarily because it's the best, but because of the initial excitement of the "first time" and the sentimental value thereafter. |
Yeah, I can see that. Full House and Autumn Tale were also my first k-dramas and they will always have a special place in my heart, but the later ones like Coffee Prince and Soulmate were much better in my opinion. They felt more vibrant and like I mentioned above, the soundtrack, settings, and story pacing was much better.
| kobe23 wrote: | | I don't ever see HK entertainment at the levels it was in the 80s and 90s again. These days everything coming out of Hong Kong cinema seems like something cooked up by EEG just to promote Twins and Edison Chen . Pre-scandal anyway |
kekeke Yeah, the biggest problem in HK is the studio system. If I'm not mistaken, actors can only act in a certain studio's production right (or is that only in dramas)? That really limits the competition and talent.
I think HK is suffering through an identity crisis. Especially after Couching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, it seems like films are trying to pander to the Western audience for the "global" appeal. But by doing so, the films lose their connection with their local audience.
| kobe23 wrote: | | Having a big budget helps a great deal when it comes to marketing, but I have found Hollywood, despite spending hundreds of millions more than Chungmuro, can still produce an vastly inferior product. Just look at their remakes of Asian films! |
Oh yeah, I definitely agree.
I don't think having a bigger budget means a better film. I meant prominence in terms of marketing as well. I remember reading that in some cases, more money was spent on marketing than on the film itself!
The one thing about a non-American audience is that they are willing to read subtitles (and also most people learn English). So that's why Hollywood films are able to have that global reach.
(But that's a testament to Hollywood's marketing power, because you have a lot of quality European films that aren't imported to Asia or even other European countries).
It would be great if one day the general American audience is OK will reading subtitles, then Asian entertainment could really flourish.
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bellezaJoined: 21 Jan 2007 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Quote: | | Like in Coffee Prince and Soulmate the music as just fantastic and really fit the scene |
Yeah, that's actually considered a device in K-drama, the use of pop songs to represent a character or a specific couple. So if you hear a particular song, more often than not, it's the "theme" song for the people you see onscreen.
Soulmate's kinda special in that its pitchfork-ish playlist (LCD Soundsystem and Fantastic Plastic Machine?!? ) would be even challenging for a young hip Korean viewer. But it's part of a general move toward hipper, more sophisticated comedies to attract the 18-30 audience. The big deal with Coffee Prince is that it's the first of its kind to become a ratings hit.
In terms of set production and # of cameras and edits, Korean drama is higher than most China and Taiwanese dramas. The direction is still not as stylish as J-drama (inherent limitation with the live shoot, 2 episode/week setup), but the overall production budget (minus the actor salaries) is highest now in Asia.
| Quote: | | They re-dubbed Bicheonmu didn't they? I know for Chinese audiences, most of them are ok with the dubbing, since we're used to the Cantonese-to-Mandarin dubs. Also, Taiwan's dubbing is really, really good so I think a lot of people are OK with it. |
I think Bicheounmu did badly, mostly because it was aired in Korea well, well after China. I know about the quality/writings problems . . . but then, it's a SBS show, right?  The people who really wanted to see Bicheounmu would have done so years before.
| Quote: | | The one thing about a non-American audience is that they are willing to read subtitles (and also most people learn English). So that's why Hollywood films are able to have that global reach. |
This is true, but almost all shows (as opposed to movies) are dubbed for the domestic market. Nobody likes to watch subtitles. I even watched Coffee Prince dubbed with Taiwanese voices. Eun Chan sounded ver uhh girly?!?
| Quote: | | I don't think having a bigger budget means a better film. I meant prominence in terms of marketing as well. I remember reading that in some cases, more money was spent on marketing than on the film itself! |
It's not entirely fair to compare Hollywood budgets with other countries, because even when accounting for inflation, there's so much more bureaucracy that creeps into the Hollywood model. French movies, which like Korea has a quota system to protect local industry, are made for much, much less.
Also, in terms of quality product, again it's not fair to compare -- I don't know -- 10,000 BC to Sunshine or May 18th. That said, it should be noted that commercial Korean film likes to tackle social (i.e. nationalist) subjects and are able to make it commercially viable. That hasn't been the same with recent Hollywood. Also I think people associate Hollywood product with the summer crop, ignoring the winter prestige work. And of course there's also American independent too.
With regards to remakes, Hollywood doesn't have a good track record remaking films from any country, unless the studio actually views the port as a "prestige" project. I felt Ring was an improvement over Ringu (I like Gore Verbinski's David Fincher imitation), and that the Departed was slightly better than Infernal Affairs (the Departed script was a perfect ethno-evocation of the underbelly of Boston.) The latter may sound like heresy; but, then, how many people realize that most of the HK directors (including Wong Kar Wai) cite Martin Scorsese as their seminal influence? How many people who have watched Scorsese also watched the New Wave masters like Rohm and Godard and Bergmann?
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kobe23Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Total posts: 736 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 29 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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The American version of The Ring was great I have to admit. Hollywood is not known for making scary horror films (Exorcist still scariest after almost 40 years?!) and The Ring introduced a new style which western viewers were not accustomed to. Verbinski really managed to create the dark and brooding atmosphere that is staple in Asian horror and severely lacking from Hollywood. Enter Hideo Nakata for part 2 and he totally ruined it. I haven't seen the remake of The Eye as yet, but have read from various sources it could also be superior to the original. I can't imagine anyone coming close to the original A Tale of Two Sisters though.
| Quote: | | how many people realize that most of the HK directors (including Wong Kar Wai) cite Martin Scorsese as their seminal influence? |
I didn't know that, but it doesn't come as a surprise either. Martin Scorsese is probably the greatest director of all time, but this is the top of the Hollywood tree we are talking about. Go a little bit lower and the view isn't quite as good.
Now, if I have to concede which area America is stronger at, then I have to say it's the music industry. The reason why I like K-pop so much is because it's almost a replica of American pop. And that's an area where you always see Koreans imitating the Americans, but the good thing is, they do it quite well.
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bellezaJoined: 21 Jan 2007 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Quote: | | I didn't know that, but it doesn't come as a surprise either. Martin Scorsese is probably the greatest director of all time, but this is the top of the Hollywood tree we are talking about. Go a little bit lower and the view isn't quite as good. |
I think it depends on the view. The view is great if you watch serious Hollywood films or independent work (Paul Thomas Anderson is one of my favorite filmmakers.) The view is bad if you look strictly at box office. It's like me comparing all Korean films to D-Wars or The Host, or all Japanese films as horror flicks starring children with long hair. Or all K-dramas to Stairway to Heaven.
That's partially why I kinda roll my eyes about the backlash over Asian remakes, as if remakes were itself not common (or necessarily bad) all over the world. When Korea remakes a Japanese show or film (or vice versa) or an American TV show, you don't hear the same mock disapproval. Somehow because it's "Asian" it makes all the copycat and derivative products more or less "okay." The first Korean film I watched was "My Girl and I", the SHK remake of Sekachu, which is one of my all-time favorite romantic movies any country. My reaction was of the "what . . the . . .hell . . " variety! (Seriously SHK, you gotta tell your company to stop putting you in remakes mmm kay? )
What I like about the Korean film industry, though, is that mainstream popular films can be social films too and take on some of the elements of art-house fare. So something like "May 18th" can be a hit, even though it covers one of the darkest events in South Korean history. Something like "King and the Clown" can be an all-time hit, let alone one of their massive hits. Even though it's going through a downcycle, it's still robust and an important (and separate from TV) part of their pop culture.
| Quote: | | Now, if I have to concede which area America is stronger at, then I have to say it's the music industry. |
I mean, it depends. The top end of K-pop is maybe the best most popular product in Asia right now, but Japanese pop music sells better overall because they've exposed more of the rest of their music. (Rock travels better across international lines -- it's easier to market Gackt to the West than it is Hikki.) How many people listen to Jaurim (GREAT GREAT GREAT band), Roller Coaster, Nell, or Drunken Tiger? (Seriously, when I expose people to stuff like Rumble Fish, they're shocked that Korea actually offers music like that.) How much exposure do we have to the Hondae scene compared to Shibuya? If I hear another guy who loves the Wonder Girls or the Girls Generation . . .
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