self learn japanese?

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

My university uses "Nakama" 1 and 2 books which I'm sure you can find on Amazon/Ebay (For levels 100-200).. The 300 level book however is a different one.. which is garbage...

Everyone's suggestions above are very good ones. You're on the right page though coming here to ask, in that the best way to learn a language is to first familiarize yourself with the sounds of the language (hence why dorama is such a good tool ^^).

You can definitely learn patterns of speech from dorama (not so much anime with their erratic speech styles), however; as already pointed out, you will NEED kana. Kanji in itself has very many ways to be read and is very difficult to learn (even for native speakers). And although there are many phrases and patterns you can learn from music/tv, you won't be able to get the inner workings of different grammar points (such as honorifics).

Hope this helps, feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions ^_^

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I forgot to add another fun way to learn reading: Karaoke subbed PVs or performances. And I mean karaoke subbed in Japanese, the way TV performances usually are.
At least for me this is the fastest way to learn kanji, and it probably helped a lot with being able te read kana fast, and it helps with the listening comprehension. Smile

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Our university uses the Genki series which I find is of the best books to learn Japanese. As a supplement to that reading Japanese news and watching it helps with reading and pronunciation respectively. Untranslated manga helps greatly with kanji reading as most of the popular ones(Naruto, Bleach, etc) have furigana on the side so you can read and kanji and look it up. This site has a good chart of hiragana and steps to draw them http://shodan.co.za/images/hiragana_chart.jpg And finally dont be afraid to try and to ask questions. It may seem difficult but find a unique way that you can understand it. がんばろう！

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I have been self learning Japanese for some time. Longer than I would have liked it to take, but that is partially because of some of the tools I chose to use, and partially because when frustrated I have given up on it. Having a 50+ our work week on top of an hour drive each way did not help either.

From all my trials and troubles, I have found a few things out about the learning process, especially where it concerns Japanese.

The first thing to learn is the Kana. This is the Katakana and the Hiragana sylabries (alphabets). The reason why is two simple things. First, if you learn Japanese, they are part of Japanese. Second, the best learning tools I have found all use Japanese to teach Japanese. More specifically, the Kana represent the sounds of Japanese, and they use these sounds to teach you the language, conjugation, and so on.

While learning the Kana, use sources of proper Japanese audio to work on your pronunciation. It is great to learn dialects, slang, and all those fun things, but first, at least learn how proper Japanese sounds. Then you will know why those other things are different.

After that, it depends on why you are learning Japanese. If it is just for fun, then use fun sources. Dramas, etc. If it is more serious, then pick more serious sources.

Here are some sources of proper audio with companion text:

NHK World Radio has had several Japanese learning programs, with companion text. Some of them are available as torrents through d-addicts, but here is the direct download source.
http://www.nhk.or.jp/lesson/english/

The Meguro Language Center is a Japanese Language School in the Meguro district of Tokyo Japan. They give away for free many of their learning materials, including audio, JLPT prep exams, and so on.
http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/

Iwate University in Japan also gives away a chunk of their materials for free.
http://sp.cis.iwate-u.ac.jp/sp/lesson/

And this site has a chunk of audio with proper scripts to lead you through what is being said. It too specializes in learning the language.
http://www.japanese-nihongo.com/

A few other interesting sites are these:

Here I found a great PDF file for learning the Katakana. The companion book on Hiragana is still under construction.
http://www.kanjicafe.com/

Another way to have fun learning is to use a game to help. This site has Sudoku puzzles using Kanji, which forces you to think and write. If you also sound things out after learning the Kana, it can really help you remember several of the basic Kanji.
http://www.kanji-sudoku.com/

Now one thing that slowed me down was I used the exceptionally well renowned books by James W. Heisig and Kenneth G. Henshall. These would supposedly cause my kana and kanji retention levels to skyrocket.

So if these books are so great, how did they slow me down?

I already knew that many, if not most, Kanji are formed by taking a base part that has meaning and sound, and then adding a radical that changes the meaning, but not the sound. Add to this the fact that the Kana are derivatives of Kanji, and that their history is well documented, some of which I learned.

Now take those facts, that the Japanese developed their written and audible language in a specific way, and completely ignore that. Why ignore it? Because James W. Heisig and Kenneth G. Henshall did, and they think that is the proper way to learn Japanese.

If the James W. Heisig and Kenneth G. Henshall mnemonic books worked for you, great. But their contradicting every other source of Japanese instruction I previously had, really grated on me, and made it very hard for me to get any further. In fact, my longest break in learning Japanese was after the mental confusion and frustration those books caused.

To be fair, I must state that mnemonic systems have repeatedly failed for me, even in grade school. So this is just how I don't fit those books, not how good those books are.

So where am I learning Kanji from? The flashcards for kana and kanji by White Rabbit Press with the companion audio, the "Chinese-Japanese Character Cards" by Naoe Naganuma which were given to me for free by a man who used them a long time ago, and the "250 Essential Kanji for Everyday Use" volumes 1 and 2 developed by the Kanji Text Research Group, University of Tokyo, published by Tuttle.

I know those books are not the best texts for university learning, or the JLPT. They are good books, and will help you pass te JLPT, but they are not really structured towards the goal of a formal education. The White Rabbit cards are very JLPT structured, and one of the best ways to get proper stroke order, readings, etc. that are focused on passing those tests.

My goal is not to get a grade, and while I would love to take the JLPT, it is not something I am aiming to do this year. So for me, these books, and their focus on 500 of the most common Kanji used in every day life, are good for me. When accented with the cards that are JLPT focused, I am moving towards that goal, just slowly.

Now, I do want to learn the grammar, and proper use of the language. There are many commercial learning texts that are good for this. If you look at the course books of most Japanese classes you can find those books.

What about a free book that is based off a university student's trek through learning Japanese. One that has been refined over years, and added to through discussions with other students as well. And lets toss in the fact that this student had learned more than one other language before learning Japanese, so his linguistic experience is a little more than your basic student's. Add to this revisions over time, corrections, and so on, and you get a decent text on the grammar of the language that happens to be free.

http://www.nihongoresources.com/

Well, I think I have said more than enough about my own trek through learning Japanese. I hope it helps, and I wish you luck.

Konrad

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Here is a tip or all people in London, United Kingdom or thereabouts who wish to learn Japanese.

I stumbled in on this place once, at Oxford Street number 25-27 on the third floor.
Its an all out Japanese lead learning centre and for UK standards its dirt cheap.

When I was there a couple of months ago they told me it about 14 GBP per hour single student courses or if you team up with a freind or a couple of more people you can get it down to about 9 GBP an hour.

Books and stuff not included, but if you're in to dorama they will have alot to talk to you about (^^).

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I am currently making a site to learn japanese,

it is still in progress of entering the lessons and questions to the database

check out my signature
any comments will be greatly appreciated

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Recently I have been using http://www.japanesepod101.com as a source of native speaker audio of standard Japanese. There is a ton there for free, and they also have more if you deside to pay a small fee.

If you just want some instruction to help let you understand your favorite dorama better, their free lessons will really help.