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Relationship = may not be the ultimate form of happiness

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Ootori Kyouya
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Relationship = may not be the ultimate form of happiness

Post by Ootori Kyouya » Jun 26th, '08, 21:29

I've been wondering for years on why people want to be in relationships. It can be for a variety reasons. Fear of being alone, wanting kids in the future, financial incentives, or just wanting to be loved and acknowledged. There is no right or wrong answer.

But....is it the undisputed form of happiness?

For about 4 months now, I have been watching the K-drama series, Happiness. I really question if relationship is the ultimate happiness. We never know what makes us happy. Laughter is a temporary form of happiness that fades within time. Sex is just a temporary measure of pleasure. Having friends is a good way to avoid loneliness, but it does not offer that special feeling that you can't live without. I am not talking about the pros and cons of being in a relationship because it varies with each person. This is the bottom line:

''If we strive for the ultimate happiness, is relationship the answer?"

People try to fulfill happiness with expensive products, sex and money. We see divorces because relationships does not make them happy. We make mistakes between love and infatuation. At this point in time, I don't see relationship as the ultimate form of happiness. I may be wrong because people have other interpretation. However, it doesn't help that people see it differently because what I seek is the answer of happiness that applies to everyone despite their gender, race or preference.

I've heard hundreds of stories about relationships and experience some on my own. I've asked girls their meaning of happiness. Most of them don't know what it may consist. Dramas glorify how special relationships are with appealing stories. In reality, it almost never happens. Even if a fairy story relationship did occur, does that truly make us happy forever?

As we get older, we become much wiser than our adolescent days. That is when we start questioning our own pursuit of happiness.

So I ask you...

''If we strive for the ultimate happiness, is relationship the answer?"

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zyrene
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Post by zyrene » Jun 27th, '08, 07:20

it depends on who you are having relationship with. it may bring you ultimate happiness or the complete opposite.... love has many faces and if you get a good one then consider yourself a lucky one... thats my humble opinion.. :D

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Lovelymagic
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Post by Lovelymagic » Jun 29th, '08, 06:06

My life theory is 'Survive untill you can be happy'. Meaning that you use all of the wisdom you've recived (from anywhere, anybody) to make your life happy. I also say that if a person is'nt happy with themself, he/she should not jump in to a relationship hoping that he/she will become happy.

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Post by biniBningPunkista » Jun 30th, '08, 19:21

''If we strive for the ultimate happiness, is relationship the answer?"

the answer to this question... will be different to every person's outlook in life.
some people will think faith in God is their ultimate happiness (being saved from hell and living eternal life and etc), while other find ultimate happiness in their careers, while some find it with a special someone in their lives, thus ending up with a relationship. as for me... i live that to myself to ask once more ^_^v
Last edited by biniBningPunkista on Jul 31st, '08, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.

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katzenjammin'
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Re: Relationship = may not be the ultimate form of happiness

Post by katzenjammin' » Jul 9th, '08, 22:15

I'm gonna babble for a minute here.

First of all, I think that there's a big problem with semantics when people talk about "happiness" -- in fact, the way the OP threw it around in their post reminded me of the way Westerners (particularly Americans) use the word "love". I love to dance. I love pancakes. I love my dog. I love my mother. I love my girlfriend. I'm sure we can agree that the meaning of "love" differs in these sentences.

(As I read the OP again, I feel there's the same problem with the word "relationship" but whatevs.)

That said, the "happiness" I think we're getting at...

I don't want to throw around psychological terms, but the ultimate form of "happiness" can correspond to the top of Maslow's pyramid of needs, self-actualization. Traditionally, the features on top have nothing to do with other people; they're personal things. They involve things like reaching one's own potential, and being accepting of their surroundings and circumstances. Of course, you can't be happy if your needs for attention, acceptance, physical and emotional intimacy aren't met, but it's generally thought that you can be happier than just that.

Also, there are certain segments of the population that don't have a need or a desire for intimate relationships. I know many people who are simply content with not having a partner as long as they have other supportive people in their lives (friends, family). Some people are so independent they don't even need that much. Then again, there are ome people who are so demanding that they need a partner, to a degree we might define as clingy.

Either way, everyone is different, and people have different priorities and goals. There are also many different life experiences and cultural factors to consider. My happiness is not your happiness.

BUT. Personally, I think that who many consider the one isn't who you'd be happy by just being with. That's the person that you believe that you could reach happiness with. Being in the relationship helps, but isn't happiness in itself.

...If any of that makes sense?

angel's advocate
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Post by angel's advocate » Jul 10th, '08, 18:55

as pretty much what everyone else before is saying, the value of relationships is dependent on the individual but i once read a book which i agreed with quite well. the book was in chinese but the author was saying something along these lines:

relationships are not a necessity for someone who is already fulfilled with their life. for someone who is fulfilled, relationships can enhance their happiness but they are not essential to that happiness. on the other hand, for someone who is not fulfilled and looking to grasp meaning within their lives, they may look towards relationships in an effort to fill the void within themselves or to find support. to these people, relationships may be essential.


i agree with the author. for someone who is not happy, a relationship may be something they find essential. but this relationship is a temporary bandaid and not the root of happiness. for someone who already finds joy in life, having someone there to share that joy will enhance that experience but is by no means essential to them. certainly this is how i feel about my life. i don't know if this answers your original question. but this is my take.
Last edited by angel's advocate on Jul 11th, '08, 01:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by neokenzo » Jul 10th, '08, 19:10

IMO, you dont need anything or anyone to be happy. However I think most people have trouble understanding this concept. I once mentioned to someone wise that I wasnt feeling happy but I dont know why and he said that he might be homeless, in the rain, no money and no food to eat and he would still be happy. Obviously this is a metaphor but I understood it and thus wished to be happy from then onward :)
I do agree angel's advocate's quote. You can search for happiness elsewhere, in a relationship, in work, in social community, anywhere but if the happiness doesnt come within, its not really happiness, its just filling the void. Once you can feel happy by yourself then all other things that comes around is a bonus but not neccessary.

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Post by mimmi » Jul 11th, '08, 02:40

@ ootori Kyouya....to answer your question, the answer is "no"....to find the "real ultimate happiness", you have to find the real ultimate you first. After you find your true self, then you will find that ultimate happiness that is sometimes out of others grasp....having a relationship is just another commodity of luxury in somebody's life whom already found her/his ultimate true self and to enhance that happiness he/she already have :-)....

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Ootori Kyouya
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Post by Ootori Kyouya » Jul 31st, '08, 06:16

It seems people don't know how to answer a question properly.

Only 1 person (mimimi) seems to get to the point. mimimi, thanks for the answer, but the answer itself does not help me.

As for katzenjammin's comment on how it affects Maslow's theory, it's very flawed. Why should I see use a chart that applies to marketing?

Furthermore, the biggest flaw of that theory is summed up with this line.

The hierarchy of needs is nothing more than a fool's daydream; there is no possible way to classify ever-changing needs as society changes.

Change is everlasting in our life.

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Kathstandsalone
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Re: Relationship = may not be the ultimate form of happiness

Post by Kathstandsalone » Jul 31st, '08, 07:46

Ootori Kyouya wrote: ''If we strive for the ultimate happiness, is relationship the answer?"
Hi. Many people believe that to have happiness, they need to have money, fame or beauty. To strive for these, it might even cause them emotional and mental unstability.
And also, as you said, people seek happiness in riches, sex, etc.

To strive for the ultimate happiness ... one needs to discern what is really important. I'd like to come in from a spiritual viewpoint.

Have you heard of the 9 happiness that Jesus mentioned? The first one he mentioned is, "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them." Therefore, the 1st step to be happy is that we need to develop a spiritual outlook on life.

If you want to talk about relationships ... developing a friendship with God is the most important and leads to the ultimate happiness. When one develops a friendship with God by getting to know his instructions and listen and be taught by Him, one is sucessful and happy. Why? Isaiah 48:17 & 18 says that God teaches you to benefit yourself and verse 18 says if you pay attention to his commandments, your peace would become just like a river and your righteousness like the waves of the sea. His teachings never fail. It's only humans who come up with all sort of things and bend their way around that they fail in lifez.

The 2nd ingredient to happiness: Being content and "avoiding the love of money"
God teaches from the Bible that we need to be content and avoid "the love of money". 1 Timothy 6:6 - 10 reads "To be sure, it is a means of great gain, [this] godly devotion along with self-sufficiency. For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having sustenance and covering, we shall be content with these things.
However, those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and hurtful desires, which plunge men into destruction and ruin. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains. " We should work hard and enjoy the results what we have done. This increases our self-respect.

3rd ingredient to happiness: Keeping pleasures in their place
Having a spiritual outlook on life helps us to gain the greatest benefit from recreation, entertainment and othe pleasures. We enjoy these yet they are not the prime source of joy. Greatest joy comes from spiritual pursuits including helping people to learn about God and his purpose for humans. Pleasure-seekers feel empty and unfilfilled compared to doing meaningful, spiritual activities.

4th ingredient to happiness: Be generous and thankful
Why? Jesus said in Acts 20:35, "There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving." We may give money, time and energy to family members, friends, etc. Talking and spending time with them ... Then when others give to us, we should be thankful. When someone expresses heartfelt gratitude to you, do you feel joy? Showing gratitude raises our awareness of the good things that happen to us instead of dwelling on the bad things.

5th ingredient to happiness: Love and Hope
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 describes what love is:
" Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never fails. But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with".

Totally different from the world's "love is blind. love is selfish." kind of bull. I find that scripture very beautiful. Love places others' happiness ahead of self. Unfortunately, such love is rare in this world. However! it'll not continue to be like that. God will get rid of people who are filled with hatred and greed. He will keep alive only those who strive to cultivate love. Imagine having every day filled with "exquisite delight". :D
Rejoice in the hope set out for you in the Bible. Want to know more about of the hope that God sets out for humans? :D

There are others which is not possible to type out everything here. If you are interested to read more about how to find the ultimate happiness and have an open mind, you can go to You can find Real Happiness. :=) I got this info from the website.

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Ootori Kyouya
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Post by Ootori Kyouya » Aug 1st, '08, 05:58

I know everything based on Christianity since that's what I believe in. However, after what God did to me on a certain day 10+ years ago that changed my life forever, I started lacking faith in him at 2008 since I did everything you listed for 10+ years without questioning him. As a result, nothing has changed. I'm just tired how my faith is being undermined and ignored. I'm not Moses. I didn't completely abandon God...but I'll say that my faith in him is decreasing in a rapid rate as days go by. This is why I'm not letting anything get in my way on what I want to achieve. It's amazing I even lasted this long after what he did to me on that day...

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Post by XrayZ » Aug 1st, '08, 06:10

relationships are satisfying when both people are happy with themselves, but i think that's a rare thing (not nowadays, but rare full stop).

people want a lasting, strong relationship because for most people (in some part of their heart and mind) it's a comfortable, healthy and somehow correct way to live... then you become a parent and try your best to hand down what's good about you for the next spin of the wheel.

it's hard-wired genetics, complicated by the greatest of human flaws, the brain....

i hope this counts as an asnwer too, ootori-san!

book reccommend on the subject of religion:

"The Misery of Christianity" by Joachim Kahl

a former protestant pastor and professor of theology and church history, joachim kahl lost his faith and wrote the most vicious diatribe ever devised against christianity

historical, theological and moral arguments are meticulously laid out one by one, with christian apologetics examined and negated

ok, it's not a fun read, and i don't agree with everything he says (he's too angry to be fair, for one), but it's a book which changed my life

i don't mean to offend any christians, but i feel that its worth questioning the fundamentals of life and questioning *hard*

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Kathstandsalone
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Post by Kathstandsalone » Aug 1st, '08, 07:43

Ootori Kyouya wrote: However, after what God did to me on a certain day 10+ years ago that changed my life forever, I started lacking faith in him at 2008 since I did everything you listed for 10+ years without questioning him.
Hi. May I know what did God do to you?

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Ootori Kyouya
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Post by Ootori Kyouya » Aug 1st, '08, 17:45

Sorry to say this, but it's none of your concern.

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Post by MitsukaiKuroi » Aug 1st, '08, 22:40

Relationships do not make you happy... You have to be happy with yourself before you can find happiness with someone else.

If you can not look in the mirror and say "I love who I am and where I am in my life is fabulous." NO relationship in this world will bring that feeling to you.

I have been in a relationship for 8 years now and I am happy because we are happy individuals that decided to share this experience with each other. Neither of us were connecting for loneliness or wanting some magical "bonding".

We have seen so many couples come and go and we are still laughing and having a lot of fun... Maybe even more than when we first met. But does give us ultimate happiness... No. Our individual achievements make us happy... Sharing them makes us happier.

If anyone looks to a relationship for completion and happiness then they will be disappointed over and over again. Just IMO.

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bluespring
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Post by bluespring » Aug 2nd, '08, 18:21

Ultimate Warrior is the ultimate happiness.

aliensporebomb
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My thoughts....

Post by aliensporebomb » Aug 3rd, '08, 16:32

You have to be happy inside your own skin before you can be happy with someone else.

Once you are comfortable with yourself and are confident in your own direction,
then you can be with someone else as a partner/soulmate and it is more likely
that things will work out.

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Post by XrayZ » Aug 4th, '08, 19:31

aw, i'm disappointed, i didn't get any return commentary from the OP! was i too negative about religion?

i just honestly think that ootori-san need to get past this weird iidea that gog did something bad to him personally, even xtian theologians don't think the world works like that... free will, chance, these things exist in most views of the universe.

however bad it was, it wasn't personal.

i don't say that from the POV of somone with a perfect life - i'm broke and divorced, with medical problems and no real job, and i've lost family members and had bad and traumatic things happen to me with disheartening regularity...

however, in between times, life is sweet because i get to do things like get rained on in the middle of a blazing hot day, or crack my mates up with a sarcastic comment, or watch an old french movie with tons of style, or cook up a batch of curry with my daughter, or fuss my cat, or read a really good book...

relationships? well, ok i didn't even mention that this post but the god thing fascinates me (although i absolutely don't care what it's all about!)

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Ootori Kyouya
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Post by Ootori Kyouya » Aug 4th, '08, 20:58

I don't turn a blind eye to something that has happen to me. I never forget it. Ever. I remember it not because of revenge, but to make sure to never...ever....make the same mistake again. That's how we get through life....by learning our mistakes and correcting them. Unfortunately, some people make the same mistakes over and over and never learn from it.

I don't see my misfortune from 10+ years ago to be personal because it became widespread. It is one thing to put misfortune on me alone...but when it is spread to others that I care about, that's when I get mad.

My search for happiness also plays into my seek for redemption to those who have been hurt or struggle due to this misfortune. I can handle it, but others I know can't. All I know right now is that my happiness can't be mine alone. Otherwise, it just turns into selfishness.

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Post by XrayZ » Aug 4th, '08, 21:02

ah but u can't take responsibility for the happiness of other - beyiond helping where u can!

i have a friend more depressed then me, we suffer together but what can i do for him beyond be a friend?

when i feel happy i feel happy, its not selfish its a fact - there i always someone worse off, don't harm yourself because it will never help another!

(i don't mean that literally! i think u get what i mean)

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Ootori Kyouya
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Post by Ootori Kyouya » Aug 6th, '08, 00:34

ah but u can't take responsibility for the happiness of other - beyiond helping where u can!

What did I just say on my previous post? I said that the problem is widespread. People I care about is affected by this problem. If you eliminate or solve the problem, then the happiness is restored. It's THAT simple. It's not going beyond. It's an objective approach. You eliminate the threat/problem, and it's gone.

That's what I have been trying to do for the past 3 years....but I'm far from solving it.

XrayZ
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Post by XrayZ » Aug 6th, '08, 00:40

hm, i maybe wasn't very clear... all i mean is that when you say you can cope but others can't, however close to you or however many there are, you shouldn't let that get in the way of you personally rising above it in you own life (even if you have to deal with it in other paople's lives every day)

hope that's a little clearer, but i think there's a bit of a language barrier going on, sorry if it seems like i'm just rambling dude but no need to tell me off

XrayZ
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Post by XrayZ » Aug 6th, '08, 00:42

btw, what's your longest romantic relationship? (mine's 8 years, followed by... erm, six months! i'm so bad at reading women, i should go be a homo instead...)

i basically agree with your original point, incidentally, but the other way is possible too because some relationships seem to make people very happy!

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Post by FoolyDooly » Sep 6th, '08, 12:00

Happiness is not just made. It's achieved and earned. <3

That goes with any life-relationship, be it job, family, friendship, or love. If one of you guys aren't truly happy, then it just won't work. It's effort, after all.

nankasento
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Re: Relationship = may not be the ultimate form of happiness

Post by nankasento » Dec 29th, '08, 17:19

Ootori Kyouya wrote:''If we strive for the ultimate happiness, is relationship the answer?"
My answer to this question is no, especially since it's striving to ultimate happiness, no such thing can ever be achieved. Ultimate happiness? Ultimate???

Especially if this ultimate happiness also needs to be distributed amongst a lot of people, that's not going to happen ever, happiness in some form or other than ultimate, maybe, most likely not, one man's happiness is another man's sorrow, ain't it not?

Religion... I can't see it differently then a tool to control large crowds, it's politics with a different coat, but far more superior and effective.
I also find it very easy to blame someone, or in this case some "thing" / concept, God(desses(s)) rather than one self or just take it as it is, not done by anyone or anything just a circumstance.

Just upfront, no I don't believe and have never done so, yes I have been "thought" some of the stuff but that has been ages ago, I went to school in an actual church because my parents couldn't afford anything else. I do believe in something, that is, I don't believe that what's written in books is true, including the bible! Nor stone for that matter. However as I don't want to be pushed a believe on me I do not push mine on others, I find you should believe what you want.

Back to the original subject, what's wrong with happiness? why does it have to be ultimate?

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xKyandi
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Post by xKyandi » Feb 15th, '09, 10:10

ootori,
your problem is your outlook on life
if you keep dwelling on something 10 years ago
and blame it on god
for 10 years
then youre never going to have "happiness"
and therefore
in your case
no
relationships are not the ultimate form of happiness
because you have something feeding your happiness

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