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[Discussion] Cleopatra na Onnatachi

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Sorvaseven
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[Discussion] Cleopatra na Onnatachi

Post by Sorvaseven » Mar 21st, '12, 14:53


I wonder if this will be a critical drama about plastic surgery or just entertainment. Cosmetic surgery is apparently more in vogue, especially in Korea. I've read a few articles that it is becoming increasingly popular in Japan too. I think this is a bit questionable! Since NTV produces the drama, a critical drama could be possible. Maybe some of you know the drama Seikei Bijin? Cosmetic surgery was there also an issue, but rather pure entertainment. What are you thinking of cosmetic surgery and that it is the subject of a new drama?

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# Title (romaji): Cleopatra na Onnatachi
# Broadcast network: NTV
# Broadcast period: 2012-Apr-18 start
# Synopsis: The story is described as a human drama set at a cosmetic surgery clinic. Unlike his usual enthusiastic characters, Sato plays a young surgeon named Kishi Minetaro, who speaks little, acts uncouthly, and dislikes women. Inamori plays a very capable surgeon, while Kitano plays a cheerful young nurse. Other cast members include Ayano Go, Miura Shohei, and Yo Kimiko.

http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Cleopatra_na_Onnatachi
http://www.ntv.co.jp/cleo/

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Mar 21st, '12, 15:43

Hm.. I haven't heard of the drama you mentioned but I'm wondering it it'll take a similar approach like Kiken na Aneki (where the setting is at a hospital but it's a hospital drama but more so comedy & the actual people who work there) or like Mitsu no Aji (the main focus is still about the two women love for this dude and blahblah) since on the wiki it says human drama.. So maybe it might be like the drama you mentioned ^^; It seem to describe more about the people's personalities in the synopsis than anything else.

I do know... I'm not looking forward to Kitano Kii too much (I dunno I can imagine her character and how she'll portray it... she might be a bit annoying) but will like to see Ayano & Miura in this ^^ (I hope Miura doesn't play a role like his last 2 previous ones.. I dunno I like his cool/serious-ness in Tumbling ^^) Actually now thinking about it Ayano & Miura should be reverse.. like them playing roles the other seems to play a lot. I thought Ayano was adorable in his guest appearance in Bem.. he seemed sooo much younger and alive (I do miss his hair ._.)

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Amrai
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Post by Amrai » Apr 22nd, '12, 21:53

After watching the first episode, a brief overview: the main character Kishi Minetarou is against "superficial" plastic surgery, and originally only did reconstructive surgery at a university hospital, but due to family issues begins to work at Beauty Surgery Clinic (BSC).
I am really quite intrigued by this series and the way it's going, since Kishi struggles throughout this episode with the idea that plastic surgery can save a patient's life. Instead of being used as a gimmick, the drama focuses on what plastic surgery really is, and what its effects are. Originally, I personally didn't see much merit in plastic surgery and thought of it as superficial, but after watching the first episode, I began to understand what the motives and effects of plastic surgery are. Although only the first episode has aired, I'm expecting this to be my favorite drama this season, if not the whole year. My favorite thing about it is the various perspectives and the lack of one-sided characters. They haven't used many stock characters (ones you see in every drama) and from this episode I got a sense of the complex emotions of the main characters. Even the side characters, like the nurses and clerks at the clinic, have their own views and personalities, which is often sorely lacking in dramas.
At the moment I'm most interested in the relationship between Kishi and his best friend/roommate, Yu (played by Ayano Go). Based on my perceptions from the first episode,
Yu has been in love with Kishi since junior high, and is pretty open about it. Some of the lines he says are seriously heavy with his emotions, but Ayano says them in such a way that they can be taken as almost a joke, which is how Kishi treats them. Their relationship is very close, with Kishi saying "my only ally is Yu" at one point. Where this relationship goes is entirely up in the air, but personally I don't think it'll get very far. Watching the first episode made me think about whether or not JDramas have every had a successful homosexual couple. There was "Last Friends", but that was still a strange middle of the way ending, and then IS, but that was more about mosaic children and still ended with heterosexual couples (based on the genders of the actors).
There's also no indication of who the main female lead is- or whether or not there will be a main female lead at all. From the first episode and the posters, it seems like Kitano Kii's and Inamori Izumi's characters got a little more screen time, but there was absolutely no hint of a love relationship yet.

@minah: Kitano Kii wasn't that bad- she's kind of annoying, but not just a pretty face either. Ayano's character is pretty light-hearted and cheerful, surprisingly. And Miura's character is almost exactly the same personality as in Hungry!!, which was strange. Definitely one of the weakest characters out of the bunch, but with lots of potential.

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Post by «minah» » Apr 23rd, '12, 00:23

^

Wow thanks for your comment! I hope I get to see it

But wow Miura the same as in Hungry? Eh........ Oh well I guess


I'm trying to think of a drama that had a successful homosexual pairing and... the only one I can think of are movies. They may deal with homosexuals but they're usually just stereotyped as that super serious depressed person whose love will never be returned or as some flamboyant flashy guy OR a tomboy girl ugh -___-
Well I do hope to see Ryuta here because I love his acting and.. he doesn't seem goofy as usual

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Amrai
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Post by Amrai » Apr 23rd, '12, 01:30

Yeah, that seems to be the trend. They're used as comedic relief most of the time, and are never really taken seriously. Or the tomboy girl...

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Jazzapple
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Post by Jazzapple » Apr 23rd, '12, 19:31

I'm really curious about this drama and I'm waiting for the subs.
I really hope that someone will sub this drama in English.

_______________________

I've seen the first episode and I got to say. I love it.
I got kinda bored with the mystery dramas, so I was quite thrilled that I could laugh a bit with this drama.
Most of the characters were interesting, except for Shohei Miura. He was the same in Hana Kimi ànd in Hungry!
But still, he's funny, so I don't really mind. (':

And I'm also very curious about the relationship between Minetaro and Yu. But I won't expect too much. Like you guys said... There hasn't been many gay couples in Jdramas.

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Jazzapple
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Post by Jazzapple » May 18th, '12, 19:21

I don't understand why this drama isn't being discussed... It's my favourite drama this season!

I'm litteraly loving every second of it!

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Sorvaseven
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Post by Sorvaseven » May 18th, '12, 19:38

Jazzapple wrote:I don't understand why this drama isn't being discussed... It's my favourite drama this season!

I'm litteraly loving every second of it!
I haven't seen it yet, because i'm currently watching some other dramas :P

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Post by zephyrMZ » May 18th, '12, 20:42

I too loved this drama :)

I'm familiar with the medical field and beauty surgery clinics, so I tell you that the setting, characters from the front desk clerks to the nurses to the doctors, everything are sooo realistic as if lifted from a real BSC. Even the character of Mine-Sensei who comes from a University hospital and his world-view is downright realistic.

I'm looking forward to every episode and very grateful for the subs!

Loved the comedic relief in the end of each episode :)

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Post by Foxxy_Fuyumi » May 18th, '12, 22:01

Hi!! Can you tell me which show is this, and the date?

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Post by Carsuke » May 18th, '12, 22:54

Ryuta is too serious ... Sometimes I feel like it's a bit overdone.

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Post by avieamber » May 20th, '12, 06:38

i gave this show a try out of curiosity and boredom, basically when I've finished watching every other drama I'm following this season, I just realized I'm following a total of 10 dramas this season, what a tremendous amount compared to last season (only 2).

So after watching like 2-3 epi, I can say that I'm definitely enjoying it so far. Mostly because I'm intrigued by cosmetic surgery and how they actually do those things. Quite informative in a way and funny how the main lead, Kishi is against it all the way.

As for my personal opinion, I'm like him, against cosmetic surgery (prefer natural look). However I don't mind if it's for mending some accidental incidents like burnt or etc...that said, I find myself siding Kishi at first. But then, the whole argument with the rest of the ladies in the show about the face is the most important factor and all, I am now on the fence lol.

But to each their own. Whatever works for them I suppose. I do agree that sometimes when people get their face done, they'll have a fresh outlook on life and boost their confidence. on the other hand, 'never judge a book by its cover' still holds true in my opinion.

About Yu and Kishi
seriously Yu is obviously in love with the guy! I thought Kishi is gay at first but it turns out that he's pretty straight and knew of Yu's nature and treats him as a really good friend. I don't know how far they can take this relationship coz like you guys said, I've also not seen any successful homosexual relationship being portrayed in dramas. Movies, I'm not sure. It's probably too controversial :unsure:

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Post by orange.juice » May 25th, '12, 23:42

Hey guys, I don't usually comment here but I couldn't ignore these news on this drama:

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/entertainment/ ... T01130.htm

According to it, Cleopatra will be cut down to the 8th episode due to low ratings. I'm very disappointed with this, Cleopatra was a must-watch for me and its issues on homo/hetero relationships, family and of course plastic surgery and its psychological analysis.

I just hope they won't just throw us a random happy ending or whatsoever. :cry:

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Post by Nutcase » May 26th, '12, 00:06

That's a disappointment. I'm sure any complaining I do will just sound like whining, but here goes.

Strikes against it:
- No obvious love interest/story
- No cliff-hanger endings
- No Johnny's "actors"
- Deep character development
- Examination of homo as well as hetero relationship
- No gimmick

Reasons why I watch it and chose to subtitle it:
- See above list

Oh well, I guess I'm in the minority. Here's to hoping for more quality Japanese dramas.

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Post by beailoveyou » May 26th, '12, 02:59

At first I was really looking forward to this drama all because of Ayano Go, but it has become one of my favorites this season. I like the storyline and how they portrayed it. I always look forward to the next episode even if I have no idea what it's all about.

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Post by kirtil » May 26th, '12, 05:37

After watching first episode, I thought that this was one of the more interesting dramas of the season.. Way more interesting and engaging then most of those detective dramas (maybe I'm kinda burned out on detective dramas but cant understand for the life of me why they get so high ratings compared to this).

From the first episode I got the feeling that I would like to watch this in one go so I am downloading and waiting it to be fully subbed to watch the rest but still cant stop myself from checking out the discussions.

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Post by Amrai » May 28th, '12, 21:11

I'm pretty sad that this is getting cut off at 8 episodes. I really do think that it was innovative and way deeper than many people were expecting and/or willing to watch. In other discussions of this that I've seen, people stopped after the first ep because they didn't like the ideals being expressed by the women at BSC. Which is unreasonable. I'm sorry, they're supposed to be women who work in plastic surgery by choice, so obviously they're going to support it in any way. And Kishi is very adamant about his anti-plastic surgery, pro-reconstructive surgery attitude...

@Nutcase: Good list. Made me smile. I don't mind the occasional Johnny, but they're pretty subpar actors as a group (says the person with a Johnny's avatar...)

And now on to the main reason I wanted to post, ep. 6
Wow, is it just me or did they decide to throw everything at the characters all at once? I was expecting Aoi and Ishii-sensei's conflicts to come up, but I guess with the end two episodes away, they threw them together in this episode. And it brings into the spotlight a possible Kishi-Ishii relationship... which I'm not averse to, but it seems kind of... boring? expected?
I really enjoyed the Aoi vs. Yu argument, and it seriously brought out the worst in both of them, along with their true emotions. I see more of a chance of an Aoi-Yu (platonic) relationship than Aoi-Kishi (love) at this point... lol.

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Post by Nutcase » May 28th, '12, 21:43

If I'm watching a drama, I'd like it to make me think a little, challenge me a little in a cerebral way, and of course entertain me too. If I didn't want to watch or listen to anything that expressed opinions that I didn't like, I'm afraid I'd be a pretty shallow person.

Though I may not agree with the opinions of the ladies at the clinic entirely, I can certainly understand them. Depending on the type of person you are, those values may work best for you. I'd also say that Kishi's ways are not constructive, and much too righteous. Of course, overcoming that is part of the story. He's becoming more mature through his experiences there, working in an environment that is very different than his way of thinking.

That's basically the theme here, seeing that there is a value system that is different than what is considered the standard, and that it is valid as well. Another example is the view of what a "real" doctor is vs. the cosmetic surgeon. (And even real doctors are terribly vain, e.g. Prof. Kajiwara)

Anyway, I'll get down off my soapbox, put the headphones on and get back to subtitling now.

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Post by orange.juice » May 28th, '12, 22:30

Yeah, to tell the truth, I'm pretty mad with these japanese dorama viewers. What do they have in mind? Are they getting dumb? Because seriously, I'm also following kagi no kakatta heya this season (sorry, ohno fan over here), and although I have pretty much fun watching, if I were to choose between it and cleopatra, I'd choose cleopatra all the way! Besides, it is much more real in its social constructions and relationships you all have discussed. Well, possibly there's just a way better tv show airing on the same time and we all don't know :P

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Post by digitalcoconut » Jun 1st, '12, 04:18

Amrai wrote:I'm pretty sad that this is getting cut off at 8 episodes. I really do think that it was innovative and way deeper than many people were expecting and/or willing to watch. In other discussions of this that I've seen, people stopped after the first ep because they didn't like the ideals being expressed by the women at BSC. Which is unreasonable. I'm sorry, they're supposed to be women who work in plastic surgery by choice, so obviously they're going to support it in any way. And Kishi is very adamant about his anti-plastic surgery, pro-reconstructive surgery attitude...
what do u mean by 'getting cut off'? they cancelled it?

i want to try this drama, many others disappointed me.. i rated only one (Legal High)..

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Post by Jazzapple » Jun 2nd, '12, 19:57

orange.juice wrote:Hey guys, I don't usually comment here but I couldn't ignore these news on this drama:

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/entertainment/ ... T01130.htm

According to it, Cleopatra will be cut down to the 8th episode due to low ratings. I'm very disappointed with this, Cleopatra was a must-watch for me and its issues on homo/hetero relationships, family and of course plastic surgery and its psychological analysis.

I just hope they won't just throw us a random happy ending or whatsoever. :cry:
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Post by Nutcase » Jun 2nd, '12, 20:06

Well, having seen episode 7, the trailer for episode 8 didn't say it was the last episode. However on the website it kinda says it is, on the trailer at least.

They're gonna have to do some heavy editing to tie up all the loose ends in a single episode. What a pity to see it end like this. They don't even say it's going to be an extended episode.

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Post by ps790 » Jun 2nd, '12, 20:11

> I'm familiar with the medical field and beauty surgery clinics, so I tell you that the setting,
> characters from the front desk clerks to the nurses to the doctors, everything are sooo
> realistic...

I'm surprised. I've never seen a Dorama in which work was remotely relaistic. I've worked in law offices and the translation industry, and the drama versions of those work environments are incorrect by orders of magnitude (e.g. Legal High, etc.). Have you actually worked in a plastic surgery clinic in Japan? On TV, there have been a number of documentaries about problems in recent years due to inexperienced doctors flocking to the field to avoid the cost controls of normal medical practice in highly regulated welfare-state Japan. So far, this drama has not dealt with that issue whatsoever.

I'm a guy (but watch some dramas for the language and to better understand 女心), and the gay roommate sub-theme looks 1000% idiotic from my standpoint. I can't imagine any straight guy who would accept such a roommate due to the obvious problems. But this makes me wonder, is this just yet another example of gay-centric media silliness, or does this actually appeal to a female audience for some reason that I can't image? For example, is this being used somehow to illustrate the sensitivity of the main character? What do the female viewers think?

Anyway, I was prepared to be disappointed when I heard that this was about a plastic surgery clinic, but this drama brings up interesting issues. Everyone has concern about their appearance in some respect, and this deals with those issues with each episode. I myself have never had plastic surgery, but several years ago I had a cancer operation that was modified for better asthetic and functional results, so in a deep sense I'm in the same boat. Qualiity of life is a big deal, and appearance and function are major factors.

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Post by Amrai » Jun 7th, '12, 18:46

@ps790 - I find the relationship between Kishi and the gay-roommate Yuu to be really interesting. If Yuu was a girl, then she would be the stereotypical childhood friend that has liked the MC for a long time, but is eventually passed over for the main female lead. The writer described their relationship as "ideal" (理想) if Yuu was a girl. And I believe they talk about how awkward the relationship seems to an outsider in ep.7.

Yes, episode 8 was definitely the last episode, but WTF?!
They seriously crammed way too much in at once. That first scene was :crazy: And the acting was overall worse than usual. I know that they wanted to get across the point of "Life never goes according to plan", but giving everyone a "bad" ending is way too depressing... It gave very little closure as a story, imo.
AGH. The relationship between Ishii-sensei and Kishi got me so annoyed. Kishi doesn't want to have her son feel like he was abandoned, and I understand that. But just because she doesn't take him along doesn't mean that she can't visit him regularly, write letters, and overall still be a part of his life, even if she gets divorced. The husband and the grandmom were both very cool-headed and such about it, so I doubt they would pull an "It's all or nothing" move on Ishii-sensei.
Overall, disappointed with this ending. I'm sure it would have been much better if they had the extra 2-4 episodes that others do, but "Life never goes according to plan", I guess.

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Post by Jazzapple » Jun 14th, '12, 19:08

ps790 wrote: I'm a guy (but watch some dramas for the language and to better understand 女心), and the gay roommate sub-theme looks 1000% idiotic from my standpoint. I can't imagine any straight guy who would accept such a roommate due to the obvious problems. But this makes me wonder, is this just yet another example of gay-centric media silliness, or does this actually appeal to a female audience for some reason that I can't image? For example, is this being used somehow to illustrate the sensitivity of the main character? What do the female viewers think?
It's possible.
Every year we go on a school trip abroad for a week or so. Not even one of my guy classmates has ever complained about sleeping in a room with me. Hell, I've even slept several times in a bed with a friend, and he didn't make a fuss out of it.
Most of my friends and classmates know that I won't jump on every guy I know. It's pretty logical when you think of it.

I can totally relate to Yuu's feelings. I've had a friend once who I was desperately in love with. It's not like I ever said it to him, but it was kinda obvious. He just never started a conversation about it, because he knew it'd make things awkward and that it'd ruin or friendship. In our fourth year of high school, he didn't pass, I also quit saxophone lessons, so we lost contact.

One night we met in some pub. I was quite drunk, so I started a nostalgic conversation about the old days and he said he knew I was in love with him, but that he - just as I said earlier - didn't want our friendship to end and get all weird and stuff.

So yes, it's possible. I won't say that many gay people have the luck that I have to have such a open minded community, class and school, but I won't say it's 100% idiotic. There are straight guys who are very open about gay people, as long as they don't flirt with them.

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Post by «minah» » Jun 14th, '12, 20:03

Honestly I see it no different than when a straight dude and a straight girl share a room. In college, I fell asleep in the opposite sex's room and um... yeah. Even with a few dudes I had a crush on, nothing happened (and one knew I liked him) Or my friend will have dudes fall asleep on her bed (some obviously liked her) but nothing happened. Just I dunno why people would think gay guys will jump on every guy they see because it's not like every straight guy jump on every girl they see.. nor straight girls do to guys ^^; Actually my sis in law is friends with a bi girl for years and when she got mad at my bro, she stayed over her place.. and again, nothing happened. So yeah, with Jazzapple.. it's still quite possible, plus these guys have been friends for a while.

Still sad it's only 8 eps long because I can tell more could've happened with this if it wasn't cut down so shortly....

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Post by kirtil » Jun 14th, '12, 20:58

ps790 wrote: I'm a guy (but watch some dramas for the language and to better understand 女心), and the gay roommate sub-theme looks 1000% idiotic from my standpoint. I can't imagine any straight guy who would accept such a roommate due to the obvious problems. But this makes me wonder, is this just yet another example of gay-centric media silliness, or does this actually appeal to a female audience for some reason that I can't image? For example, is this being used somehow to illustrate the sensitivity of the main character? What do the female viewers think?
I am sure you didnt mean it but what you wrote was offensive and rude. (EDIT: in hindsight; let me change it to insensitive instead.)
ps790 wrote: I can't imagine any straight guy who would accept such a roommate due to the obvious problems.
This can be interpreted as gays jump (or fall in love with) everyone that gets in their close proximity so you must be very careful. Or that by your definition if a straight guy accepts such a roommate then there must be something wrong with him (because it is un-imaginable).

I have met gay guys that I would pick over many straight guys to share a conversation / share a house and gay guys that I wouldnt want to be in the same room. I assure you all gays are not same. As with straight guys, they too are very diverse in what they think, how they act, how they speak etc. They are pretty much same as straight guys.. except they are gay.

You should also take notice that in this series, that straight guy does not accept a gay guy as a roommate. The gay guy LETS straight guy stay with him.

Those being said, I found their situation plausible.

One thing I liked was they didnt turn Yu into an angel. During the start he was so understanding and wise and helpful and.. I feared he was there just to sharpen the image of Kishi and guide him to his perfect mate. But Yu got angry, got rude, got sad,... After those scenes I liked Yu better and was very sad that the series cut short. It would have been very interesting to watch how Aoi-Yu relationship would continue.

I am still waiting for the last episode subs to finish their story.

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Post by vitorswimer » Jul 15th, '12, 23:23

orange.juice wrote:Hey guys, I don't usually comment here but I couldn't ignore these news on this drama:

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/entertainment/ ... T01130.htm

According to it, Cleopatra will be cut down to the 8th episode due to low ratings. I'm very disappointed with this, Cleopatra was a must-watch for me and its issues on homo/hetero relationships, family and of course plastic surgery and its psychological analysis.

I just hope they won't just throw us a random happy ending or whatsoever. :cry:
low ratings o.O? I didn't know that, I can't believe it.

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