[Discussion] Last Friends - Nagasawa Masami/Ueno Juri/Eita

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
AKlRA
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Post by AKlRA » May 8th, '08, 22:15

I haven't seen episode 5 yet, but from what I hear, he lives... obviously.
I doubt they would kill off a main character so early in the series.
Well my suspicion of death still goes towards Sousuke, EVEN MORE now that
I see him holding a knife. He wasn't trying to joke with Michiru, he obviously
felt such a lonely pain in his heart when Michiru left him again that he thought
for a split second that he's better off dead than be in a world without Michiru.
Even though it may seem nothing more than a ploy to get Michiru to come back
to him, he's still holding a knife which is not visible to Michiru, only to himself.
Sousuke making the gesture physically and just by telling Michiru that he would
commit suicide shows that he isn't incapable of actually doing it. The more I watch
this drama I feel like the death isn't going to be anyone we didn't see coming, but more
of something we will progressively suspect later on in the drama.



My thoughts on MICHIRU:
Michiru is probably the most frustrating character on the series that's for sure.
Her helpless nature makes us the viewers frustrated and annoyed at the fact
that she can't fend for herself. We understand that because that is her nature,
Ruka feels that she has to protect her even more. From the beginning where the
salonist bullies Michiru or when we first see the darker side of Sousuke where he is
flipping through her cell phone, an act of invading privacy, we see that Michiru is
in fact a helpless person. She is of a timid nature and avoids any conflict possible.
If we pan over to Ruka, we see that the director is clearly trying to show the difference
between Ruka & Michiru. Ruka is the opposite of Michiru. We first see instances of that
at her motocross training when her coach gropes her. She doesn't stand still and
ignore it, something Michiru would most likely do. Instead, she kicks him from behind
an act that tells us, "i'm not going to just let things like this slide. don't mess with me."
and she gives off a fierce facial expression that we can read clearly that she is not
someone who will tolerate these kinds of things, whereas Michiru's expression after
being bullied or instagated by Sousuke of her actions is that of fearful and passive. Her
facial expression shows that she just wants to be loved and won't do anything back to
these people for fear of being hated.
We can all establish the fact that Michiru is closed off from anyone except when she's
with Ruka. The scenes with her and Ruka show how comfortable Michiru is when she
is with her. We see a different expression on her face when she is talking with Ruka but
when it comes to the point of Sousuke, she seems to hold back even to Ruka. Michiru
doesn't want to tell Ruka that Sousuke is violent because Michiru loves Sousuke and
she loves Ruka. She is afraid that if Ruka hates Sousuke she will be forced to choose
between the two, something she clearly cannot do. Because Sousuke to Ruka is the
only real LOVE she has ever experienced. Ruka to Michiru is the only real FRIENDSHIP
that she knows. Both which are precious things to a human being. I find it hard to watch
the scenes where Michiru is forced to lie to Ruka about what's going on between her
Sousuke because she doesn't want to worry Ruka and she doesn't want to end up
hurting Sousuke. We also see the vice versa side when Sousuke shows his dispise
towards Ruka. To Michiru, it is an offense that she cannot forgive because Ruka is
just as important to her as Sousuke. Not more, not less. In episode 3 when Ruka first
sees that Sousuke could be a violent person, she doesn't trust him being with Michiru.
This is when Michiru becomes in even more of a mental bind because now her love and
her friendship starts to conflict.
I honestly feel really bad for Michiru because she knows that at this point, if she
abandons Sousuke for Ruka, she will hurt him and it's not something she can bare
for long. If she betrays Ruka for Sousuke, she is risking her friendship. As viewers
I think we have mixed emotions for Michiru. At some point it becomes old and we
are eager to see Michiru come out of her protective shell and defend herself.
Michiru's character reminds me alot of Ayumu from LIFE. If you've seen the drama
then you'll know what I'm talking about. Ayumu also has the same nature as Michiru
in being non conflictive and fails to stand up for herself. It isn't until she meets someone
that helps her feel confident that she stands up for herself. Her bully, Manami is
not someone that she wants to hate, instead, wants to try to understand her and
establish a possible friendship. Likewise, Michiru has Ruka to help her stand up to
Sousuke who even though hurts her, she wants to understand him and continue to
love him.

The intro to the drama shows that Michiru is now the one who is alone, in kind of a
bittersweet sense. We know that Sousuke is lonely from the outside and the inside,
and Ruka, although she has friends and her passion, is heartbrokenly lonely on the
inside. Michiru being the one who ends up alone in the end displays a somewhat
realistic sense of character. Even though we want to cheer on Michiru and Ruka
to be together, it won't be a fairytale ending. The honest fact is that Michiru does not
love Ruka more or less than she loves Sousuke.

This is what we are all dying to see:
Michiru busting out a Ayumu and finally standing up for herself.
Ruka being able to open up on her problems and letting go of her fear of rejection.
Takeru accepting love and overcoming his traumatic past.
Sousuke either getting some mental help, seriously.... or Michiru letting him go for
GOOD. (there seems to be a bit of a conflict with that in the viewers. it's either we
sympathize with him and hopes he will mentally change, or we dislike him period and
hopes Michiru will run to Ruka, but we already know that's not in their fate, although we
can hope for something.)

Which reminds me, I really love the concept of the characters Eri and Ogurin.
I think someone already mentioned that they play the comic relief and that's true.
It's important to have a comic relief in a drama so serious like this, especially with
actors like Eita, Ryo, and of course Juri whom many viewers are used to a more
light comedy from Nodame Cantabile. Not only as comic relief, but they give off an
overall atmosphere in the drama that not everything is so negative in their particular
world. Both characters play their role in the drama well.
Even though Ogurin has issues in his own home, he talks about it in a light,
comedic sense which is not evident in any other character.

Eri's character is more of
the cool, calm character and a character that is yet to be further developed. But even
if we didn't know much about Eri, her nature is understood. It seems that out of all
the characters, she may lead the most NORMAL life. She works at a stable job, with
stable income. Her love life is not too evident yet but there aren't any instances that she
may be having a difficult one. With all these emotions and conflicts with each character,
Eri stands out giving off a natural, non dramatic human vibe. These two characters
gives an atmosphere to the drama that we can relate to in real life.

The share house
is basically the gateway from their messy personal lives to a more relaxed, common
ground. Much like people in real life who deal with problems at work or in relationships or
personally. When we are with a group of friends all those problems can escape even
if for momentarily. Sharing laughter, playing games, and eating food together all
emphasize that even though there is so much going on with each indivisual, in that
common ground they can learn to appreciate eachother and take a break from their
outside issues.


I have to give props to the director for the portray of this drama.
Most dramas are either too dramatic or too over-the-top in happiness.
Last Friends is a drama nontheless but it shows that there are people like
michiru in this world and people like Sousuke. There are issues that we cannot
confide like Ruka and things in the past that we cannot easily get over like with Takeru.
I think the director may have used Eri as a viewer relation character. Not sure
if she has some tramatic past herself or any issues but from what I see so far,
this is the vibe I'm getting. Meaning that Eri is who most of the viewers see themselves
as.

Iatheia
Posts: 21
Joined: May 4th, '08, 18:34

Post by Iatheia » May 8th, '08, 22:32

*Boiling inside* I... She... He... I'm sorry, but Michiru had brought it on herself. She is a disgrace to the whole shoujou-ai community. I'm glad that Yuri-san had not let me post about this series in our forum, or everyone would have been raging by now.
But, honestly, what was she thinking? She willingly went to check up on that... that. Even assuming that nothing had happened (which I would, because then that disgusting scene would be even more disgusting) she just cheerfuly went back home. Her hair is fine, her clothes are intact, there is not as much as even a bruse. Personally, I find it impossible. Or was it like this?
S: Now stay still, I am going to rape you.
M: OK, go right ahead.

And guess what, he didn't even talk about global warming. Obviously, he has no style. But then again, no one could compare to Kaname-sama =)

And then Michiru went back to the appartement. I mean, wth?
That were just my rambling at a glance. I just scrolled through the episode. May be later will right something more detailed.

bmwracer
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Post by bmwracer » May 8th, '08, 23:46

AKlRA wrote:I doubt they would kill off a main character so early in the series.
One can always hope. :)

Ladymercury
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Joined: Mar 27th, '05, 06:04

Post by Ladymercury » May 8th, '08, 23:57

.... But this isn't a shoujo-ai.......
Anyway, there was signs of bruises. Takeru looked at her arm and she had cuts on them

Iatheia
Posts: 21
Joined: May 4th, '08, 18:34

Post by Iatheia » May 9th, '08, 01:23

Ladymercury wrote:.... But this isn't a shoujo-ai.......
I don't really care. It is still a disgrace.
Ladymercury wrote:
Anyway, there was signs of bruises. Takeru looked at her arm and she had cuts on them
OK, I give them that. As I said, I just skimmed through, because then I didn't have time to watch it whole. But the rest of my points stand, though. Her appearance was just too neat, as if she just went to a stylist herself, and she was just too cheerful when she entered to be a victim. Even if she just tried to cover it up for everyone. And he still has no style.
But the 'meet the parents' scene was very cute =)

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 9th, '08, 01:39

Okay, whatever you say. I don;'t see where Michiru has disgraced herself but whatever...

son2
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Post by son2 » May 9th, '08, 01:52

why everyone keep thinking that this drama is all about lesbianism?!
i just don't get it, i realize there is more bigger value in this drama, about friendship, love,.....dreams
it's not just about the label

roon
Posts: 26
Joined: Jan 25th, '05, 08:29

Post by roon » May 9th, '08, 02:39

Iatheia wrote:*Boiling inside* I... She... He... I'm sorry, but Michiru had brought it on herself...
That might be the most disgusting thing I've ever read so far on this drama. =\

I agree with son2 and Ladymercury; Take the show for what it is.

Iatheia
Posts: 21
Joined: May 4th, '08, 18:34

Post by Iatheia » May 9th, '08, 02:50

son2 wrote:why everyone keep thinking that this drama is all about lesbianism?!
i just don't get it, i realize there is more bigger value in this drama, about friendship, love,.....dreams
it's not just about the label
Yes, but one doesn't hurt the other, ne?

I do understand what you are trying to say. And I'm not trying to label anyone, but... for some this is as natural as breating. And for me even seing that two people of opposite sex are interacting in a way that could be considered more than friendly is an anomality. My whole being is revolted by such a display of affections. So...
It's kind of hard to explain. There are actually very few quality works that focus on femaler relationship, even in a minor way. So when one gets a hold on something that resembles what he or she is looking for, it really is hard to resist. But no one forgets about all those minor details that make this a quality work. There is drama, friendship, love, dreams, hopes, and so many other little things that made me crave each new episode every week. Otherwise I would have still watched it, but not with such eagerness. And that's why I'm so furstrated with the way things are right now.
So in a way you also labeling the whole yuri genre just as something that should be plotless pointless action. There is also much more to it. It can be anything you want, really. It is just that the interactions are supposed to be between girls instead of traditional couple, that's it.

chocotaco2308
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Post by chocotaco2308 » May 9th, '08, 03:03

I just want to say what a nail biter that was. I hate how it ended. Even though I watched it without subtitle i still understood the mood each character acted.

My prediction: hmmmm this may be over the edge but in my little world i would hope it could happen.

takeru and Michiru end up with each other and Sosuke is dead cause a big huge fight broke out and ruka killed him and she's in jail for lets say 5 yrs (prob not) and her jail time is almost over and the last episode of last friends Ruka gets out of jail and they are all reunited and drinking tea and chatting around the table....... I like it
pls no bad comments about it. It is just my opinion, i like thinking out of the box XD ty

princess_jime
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Post by princess_jime » May 9th, '08, 04:13

My ramblings after having watched episode 4:
My fingertips tingle, I want to write so much but don't know where to begin!

Ok. Let's begin at the beginning.
Michiru: no amount of make up will cover up what he does to you. I've heard that in cases of domestic violence the end of that situation only comes, like with drug addicts, from the victim herself. When she decides "enough is enough". Michiru will always go back to sousuke until she decides she won't, and even though the entire world will tell her otherwise, she'll go back. It's brilliant how the writers establish that in just 4 episodes. I personally have no sympathy for her at all, because I will never let something like that happen. I'd dump the stalker/woman-beater/loser/manipulative **** s.o.b. in a second, and alert the police. Period.
But I see where she's coming from, she just hasn't realized that she deserves better (everyone does), because life has been shitty to her. She wants to give love, because she hasn't received it (in her point of view), and being true to japanese drama fashion, she probably thinks that accepting abuse is what a woman in love should do.
Still, I hope she realizes that is just not the case. At all. We know from the beginning that she ends up alone (but fine) and pregnant ne, so there's still hope for her.
I can also see how she could develop a crush on takeru, being that he's so good at his job and is such a gentle considerate guy (the total opposite of sousuke).
It pisses me off though that michiru doesn't think about ruka at all. She doesn't consider her feelings (even if she doesn't realize that there's more than friendship at hand there), and takes for granted all that ruka does for her. I think that no amount of "I'm sorry I didn't know Gomen ne" that might come in the future from michiru will (in my mind) make up for the hurt ruka will feel (and is already feeling).

Sousuke. Sure sure, he has his issues, we all do, that's no excuse. He doesn't need a woman, he needs professional help. From what michiru said, he had a horrible childhood in all probability. Still, that very same point should make him realize that what he does is NOT RIGHT. Because any normal person that has suffered would naturally want to avoid doing the same things. Any intelligent person would. Those who repeat their parents mistakes, or their same mistakes, and don't strive to overcome them also have no sympathy from me. But again, there would be no drama if that was the case, and sousuke will play the part of the "devil that suffers" from now on, I predict. Let him wait in the rain all he wants, let it be that he gets pneumonia and dies. He'll be making mankind a favor! (LOL!). Boy, ryo, you sure can play well the part of the epitome of passive-agressive. Color me impressed.

Ogurin. I can't help but feel sorry for a man that has no balls. He's a really thoughtful person, sweet and cute (kind of childish, which is endearing in measure, but off-putting in abundance), in japanese society, I imagine, that kind of man will always get bullied. He still loves his tramp of a wife, and let's her bleed him like a leech only because it makes her happy. What can you do when you see a situation like that? nothing, it's my personal belief that when it comes to matters of "husband and wife" it's their problem and no one should interfere (unless it's the State's job or something). I see him as the male version of michiru. He will give in out of love and kindness, and get stepped on in response, until he decides to put an end to his problems once and for all. Again, well job from the writers in laying out this kind of situation.

Eri. I still think there's not enough Eri information. Is that on purpose? to make us (the audience) notice when, in the future, she does have her own little drama going on, everyone will realize that we know nothing about her? that she was "just there" so to speak? and that's where her loneliness comes from? I guess. It's cute though, how she wants to help ogurin, and everyone else.

Michiru's mother... another tramp, we've come to expect nothing good from the likes of her, ne? so it was totally not a shocker to see her conspiring with sousuke against michiru's best interests only for a few yen.

Takeru. Sweet, sweet takeru. Where to begin, in the fact that everyone takes for granted that his background doesn't have any trouble, because he bravely puts on a smiling face, a sympathetic shoulder to cry on, he makes great beverages? or because he's great at his job, generous, kind and smart? can you tell I like him a lot? LOL!
He sees right through ruka, he reads her like an open book. He knows the extents she'll go for michiru, and decides to protect ruka in return *dies* cause he knows no one is doing that anyway. He buys everyone the matching (foretelling) cups because he's just caring like that. He knows when to change the subject and does it smoothly (such a smart boy), he stays up all night silently protecting, he's great. I wonder when are we going to discover what ails him?
He feels for ruka because, I think, he just knows what she feels because he feels the exact same way himself. Dejection, loneliness, people assuming about his sexual orientation out of selfish conceit, people touching when they shouldn't. He knows.

And now we come to the star. MY ruka. LOL! (take that michiru!).
When she cried in front of takeru at the bar, my eyes watered (alongside him). I want to protect her too. I can just see the pain she's in for.
So, a girl like ruka, in our society, will be labeled a dike in a heart beat, even if she's not. But in japan, everyone sees her as a straight woman, that is: delicate, weak, wanting a man to support her. Because the male/female roles in japanese society are so embedded in the collective mind of everyone that it's virtually impossible to separate them at all. Like it would be mind-numbing for a japanese person to understand, say, a gay relationship where there is "no man and woman (roles) but two men, or two women". Hell, it's still difficult for some westerners to understand that even today!
Where am I going with all this? where we all went after watching ruka kiss a sleeping michiru before, she's a closeted lesbian, she's way way deep inside the closet. Even if she's just in love with one woman (michiru) and some will argue that doesn't make her a lesbian per se but just a girl that happened to fall in love with another girl, she just can't reconcile that fact with the male/female frame she's been brought up with, so she has issues with the whole male/female thing. She gets pissed at her sensei for seeing her as a woman racer instead of just a racer, for assuming that she has "a man" waiting at home and that's why she wants to get off early, and even though he's wrong in feeling her up (and stealing a kiss and a hug from her) she gets uncommonly upset, to the point where her body shakes out of impotence and self-loathing. A woman comfortable with herself would have put him in his place and that was that. But see, ruka is such a strong woman, after having cried she goes the next day to her sensei and tells it straight to him. She respects him but he should expect nothing more from her. Attagirl, that's MY ruka, I was so proud of her. Here's a character that does learn to deal, does try to come on top of her problems, and is successful, at least for the time being.
Still, I can't help but go back to her secretly checking out those medical websites. Maybe her real issue is that she does feel like a man inside and wants a sex change? I don't know, the writers haven't cleared anything on that subject yet so I'm just speculating here.
What I want to see portraited is a ruka that accepts her sexuality, as a woman. Because if they make her "a man" I will feel cheated. I'll go rent Boys Don't Cry to see that (again).
Ruka being strong, she probably thinks that being strong means being more male-like too, I also think she mistakes being a feminist (fight for women's rights!) with that. Given that everyone says so, like when eri was going on and on about how she acted like a considerate boyfriend with michiru (and takeru changed the subject yet again, feeling the awkward position ruka was getting into). Still, I was thoroughly rooting for her when she kicked suosuke out. No one else would have been that strong, no one else was. Eri was trembling like a leaf and ogurin was shyly looking at the back. If ruka hadn't been there sousuke would have barged his way in and taken michiru with him.
And when ruka saw michiru hugging the basta-I mean, sousuke, outside, my heart broke with hers.
But that's what you get for falling in love with your straight best friend, ne. It's bound to end in tragedy.

The point of this long post is: Last Friends ROCKS! (even though I think they could put more effort in the photography/soundtrack of the show, which would make it a classic of all times, instead of a hell-of-a good story)
Last edited by princess_jime on May 10th, '08, 21:09, edited 1 time in total.

AKlRA
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Post by AKlRA » May 9th, '08, 04:19

bmwracer wrote:
AKlRA wrote:I doubt they would kill off a main character so early in the series.
One can always hope. :)

i'm guessing you aren't such a big fan of Sousuke.... i mean Ryo. lol

AKlRA
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Post by AKlRA » May 9th, '08, 04:27

xquasarx wrote:next episode...
sousuke lives. ~_~ and becomes even worse. i think he says, "kimi o boku no mono" to michiru, which roughly translates to: you are mine.
episode 5 is such a surprise... O_O if i didn't misunderstood, it was ruka who suggested that takeru is better for michiru than sousuke is?

>_<
Yeah she asks her what she thinks of Takeru.
I just watched episode 5. Now i'm just frustrated.
And like alot of people have been saying, Ruka is no
better than Sousuke in the fact that she isn't HELPING Michiru
find a better solution for Sousuke. Ruka's conflict comes from her
wanting to be with Michiru, but it's like after Michiru confessing about the DV
incidents, it gives Ruka almost a REASON to try and keep hold of her. I think
Ruka fails to realize that Michiru's pain is not just from the physical that SOusuke
puts on her, but from the fact that she has to stay away from someone she loves.


Anyway does anyone else think that Nikishida Ryo looks like Lee Minwoo
from the korean group Shinhwa?
Image
mm... maybe its just me haha

junebug6272
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Post by junebug6272 » May 9th, '08, 04:44

wow, there was a huge jump in the rating's for this weeks ep, from 15.9% to 19.9% hopefully Last friends keeps gaining popularity

AKlRA
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Post by AKlRA » May 9th, '08, 04:56

btw i thought i'd share some PHOTO's with you guys :]
just... because.


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lovely juri chan (;
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I love eri's character. she's so cool B)
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okay seriously, why is ueno juri so PRETTY?
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bmwracer
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Post by bmwracer » May 9th, '08, 05:02

AKlRA wrote:
bmwracer wrote:
AKlRA wrote:I doubt they would kill off a main character so early in the series.
One can always hope. :)

i'm guessing you aren't such a big fan of Sousuke.... i mean Ryo. lol
Uh, we're talking about the drama not the actors... I don't know Ryo from any other JE boy.

Is anyone actually a fan of that sado-masochistic, psychopathic Sosuke?

We're five episode into this drama and the writers/director haven't given us one iota of a reason to be sympathetic towards his character... Not one bit.

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 9th, '08, 05:12

I look at Sousuke as Sousuke, not Ryo. Like I said, had this been someone else....

bmwracer
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Post by bmwracer » May 9th, '08, 05:19

Ladymercury wrote:I look at Sousuke as Sousuke, not Ryo. Like I said, had this been someone else....
I think you need to repeat that on every page... :sweat:

AKlRA
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Post by AKlRA » May 9th, '08, 06:14

bmwracer wrote:
AKlRA wrote:
bmwracer wrote: One can always hope. :)

i'm guessing you aren't such a big fan of Sousuke.... i mean Ryo. lol
Uh, we're talking about the drama not the actors... I don't know Ryo from any other JE boy.

Is anyone actually a fan of that sado-masochistic, psychopathic Sosuke?

We're five episode into this drama and the writers/director haven't given us one iota of a reason to be sympathetic towards his character... Not one bit.

Sorry, i don't think you got what I was trying to imply....
I said "Ryo" because everyone seems to favor him because I don't know...
I don't know who he is as an actor, maybe girls just thinks he's good looking...
but it's apparent that alot of people have biast remarks on the characters based
on who they favor.
Like Ruka is probably the most popular character, so almost everyone wants to
sympathize with her, but Ruka isn't exactly being miss moral support either.....
she just wants Michiru's love. Espcially Nodame fans it's hard to dislike Ruka in
any way just because people like HER, the actress.
edit: okay so i just wiki'd Nikishida Ryo. Looks like he's a Johnny Entertainment
actor. hmm... that makes sense.

If Sousuke was played by YAMASHITA TOMOHISA. nobody would hate him now
would they.

I doubt anyone is a "fan" of Sousuke... IN THE DRAMA. Noone is going to think
he's right in what he does to Michiru, but Michiru still loves him doesn't she?
Hard to understand someone who is a victim of domestic violence. Sousuke maybe
messed up in the head, but he's still a person, a person that as a viewer only
understands from his actions.



AND BY THE WAY.
Regarding episode 5.
I wished people wouldnt say "michiru got raped"
it could have been attempted rape, not actually rapeD.

sutaretagaisce
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Post by sutaretagaisce » May 9th, '08, 06:41

AKlRA wrote: If Sousuke was played by YAMASHITA TOMOHISA. nobody would hate him now
would they.
Considering it means he would be playing someone who routinely beats, stalks and judging by episode five, lists attempted(?) rape of his girlfriend...I'd be more shocked if people didn't hate him. Regardless of who plays him.

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 9th, '08, 06:47

We don't know if he raped her or not, the camera panned away. But assuming her demeanor she may not have been since she's running back to him to make sure he doesn't kill himself.

Who knows, maybe she willing gave into him just so it wouldn't ... b e... I dunno how to say it.... It makes sense in my head.

I mean, she kept seeing him even afterwards. Why did she apologize for what she told him before? Why was she like " Wait there, I'll come to you. "

Who knows.... I'm not making any sense and I really need to go to bed. :pale:

josean06
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Post by josean06 » May 9th, '08, 07:51

haha! everyone's still one the ryo and sousuke issue. Honestly Ryo is one of Johnny's most popular guys. Everyone loves him. And seriously, does everyone here actually like Sousuke? Anyone find him as a sympathetic character? No! The way he is currently shows us that. Four of the most popular actors of j-drama stars in this drama.

For those who don't know ryo, he is a good actor, not great, as no Johnny's is a GREAT actor, but all are good. Ryo was hesitant to take on the part because of his character's personality, and how that would affect him as Ryo in real life. It doesn't seem to phase me one bit. If he played another caring and cutesy lead once again, i'll think of him as that character. For me, I really really hate Sousuke, and if he died, that wouldn't quite as dramatic in the later episodes now would it. let's see how it all plays out.

Like I said in the beginning, people are just optimistic! People like happy endings, and everyone to be happy. Why not sympathize with a certain character. In Sousuke's case, we don't know anything about him! Not a single thing, we only know about his actions. But do we know him truly? Do we know his true feelings? No we don't. That is why people are favoring for him to change. Because life goes different ways (Michiru is quick to forgive, for example)
Stop thinking that Sousuke is Ryo, or vice versa. That's hilarious!

AKlRA
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Post by AKlRA » May 9th, '08, 08:05

sutaretagaisce wrote:
AKlRA wrote: If Sousuke was played by YAMASHITA TOMOHISA. nobody would hate him now
would they.
Considering it means he would be playing someone who routinely beats, stalks and judging by episode five, lists attempted(?) rape of his girlfriend...I'd be more shocked if people didn't hate him. Regardless of who plays him.

well not everyone hates sousuke and Nikishida Ryo is not even half as popular as
Yamashita Tomohisa. I couldn't even imagine him playing that role.... but it would be
amusing to see fans reaction.


I'll be honest,
I understand Sousuke, not the whole DV part, but guys do tend to be
VIOLENT either physically or mentally. Most guys want to break chairs, cups,
throw things, etc when they are ticked but it's called COMPOSURE. We learn to
let our mental state come first before the physical but guys are more PHYSICAL
naturally, as girls are more sensitive, naturally.

When I watch Sousuke I think
of him as a man with no composure and self control. Otherwise expressing wise, he
is just like any other man but maybe exposes it a little too much. He waits for Michiru,
in the rain. Most guys will not do that... that is the honest truth lol BUT don't think that
we don't think about it. Sousuke's want for Michiru to himself is also understandable.
Once again, guys have a sense of pride. We're just good at hiding it when we need to.
Sousuke, obviously hides nothing when it comes to letting Michiru know what's up.

tikklles
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Post by tikklles » May 9th, '08, 08:36

i'm liking ueno juri's new cut...

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Post by Matthaios » May 9th, '08, 09:10

@AKIRA: I'm sorry, but anyone that condones Sousuke's behavior has some issues(not implying that you do). Ya sure, guys can have a violent tendency and what to break things. You fail to miss one simple problem though...It is the composure and self control that seperate Sousuke and other abusive people from the good guys or even guys with violent tendencys that don't resort to domestic violence. It's one thing to think about these actions, but to actually act upon them is what really counts.

Everyone needs to stop talking about this whole "i hate ryo" crap and defending him. I'm sure that people who say this either a) actually mean the character, not the actor. or b) actually dont like him as an actor and dislike his character he plays as well. It doesn't matter who plays Sousukes role, he is meant to be hated. The fact that actors can play a role like this and also roles where they are nice and cute or whatever makes them good actors that can be versatile. Look at Yamada Takayuki and Ayase Haruka in Byakuyakou. They both played extremely dark characters and even resorted to things that Sousuke's character isn't even cable of, but people still love both of them and they can still pull of dramas like Sekai no Chuushin de. Let's stop wasting time with this argument and focus on things that actually matter to the drama.

Regarding Ruka...
I don't agree with the idea that Ruka isn't being a good friend and not doing anything to help. And to say that Ruka is jsut as bad as Sosuke by not doing anything productive is just rediculous. What would you rather want...a friend that patronizes you out of love and is only saying whats best or an abusive boyfriend? I do agree that she tends to be patronizing, but most people are in situations where you see you friend in a bad position in a relationship. Takeru's method of just listening is something Michiru needs so she can get things off her chest and tal about her problem, but at the same time, his listening isn't solving Michiru's issue. What Michiru needs is to realize she deserves better and can do better. She needs to realize that there are people that do care about her and she is also loved by her friends.

In the end of episode 4 when Michiru went to Sousuke, Ruka realized that no one can help Michiru. Nothing anyone can say will change Michiru's opinion. Michiru has to figure things out for herself. I think the only thing Ruka can do is maybe confess to her, but this would probably just make Michiru confused and maybe even want to distance herself from Ruka.

^Yuuki
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Post by ^Yuuki » May 9th, '08, 13:09

@belleza: I think you can compile everything into a thesis after the series ends... Haha. Thanks for your interesting insight on ep.4. My eyes kinda glazed over when I see other people's equally long posts after that. Lol. Too much analyzing...I have yet to see episode 5 so will save the other posts for later...=)
AKIRA wrote: Sorry, i don't think you got what I was trying to imply....
I said "Ryo" because everyone seems to favor him because I don't know...
I don't know who he is as an actor, maybe girls just thinks he's good looking...
but it's apparent that alot of people have biast remarks on the characters based
on who they favor.
Like Ruka is probably the most popular character, so almost everyone wants to
sympathize with her, but Ruka isn't exactly being miss moral support either.....
she just wants Michiru's love. Espcially Nodame fans it's hard to dislike Ruka in
any way just because people like HER, the actress.
The main point is because there's just no reason to dislike Ruka. So it's not fair to compare it to Ryo's role and how some people are biased towards Sosuke because it's him. Secondly, I don't think anyone would say that Juri is playing Ruka badly either so really, biased is probably the wrong word to use when the majority is of the same opinion(Oops, am I being biased now? Heh). And I disagree with the 'Ruka just wants Michiru's love' comment. I think there are plenty of examples where she has been pretty selfless and is just contented to look after Michiru from far as long as she's happy. Latest development have kinda forced her into the 'I have to be strong so I can protect Michiru' mentality. Her type of support for Michiru might be different from Takeru's approach(yeah, I like this kinda gender role reversal they're playing with in this drama) but they're both proving to be a much needed existence. Kinda like Yin and Yang. However...I can't promise I won't be biased if Juri plays a villain character sometime in the future. Haha.
wow, there was a huge jump in the rating's for this weeks ep, from 15.9% to 19.9% hopefully Last friends keeps gaining popularity
Woah~ That's a huge jump! Cool. Only 0.1% till it breaks the 20 mark. :thumleft:

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Post by bmwracer » May 9th, '08, 13:43

sutaretagaisce wrote:
AKlRA wrote: If Sousuke was played by YAMASHITA TOMOHISA. nobody would hate him now
would they.
Considering it means he would be playing someone who routinely beats, stalks and judging by episode five, lists attempted(?) rape of his girlfriend...I'd be more shocked if people didn't hate him. Regardless of who plays him.
YES.

For anyone to think otherwise needs as much therapy (and jail time) as Sosuke himself.

^Yuuki
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Post by ^Yuuki » May 9th, '08, 14:51

Some photos from Ruka and Michiru's graduation album I manage to steal off the Last Friends: Another site(they're updating it!)~
Warning: Pic spam under the spoiler tag! (But it's worth it, lol)
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Nothing about the Eri-My Love thing though. Probably not related to what this site is about. Don't ask me where the other characters are since those are all there is so far.

oceansportrait
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Post by oceansportrait » May 9th, '08, 16:10

About Sousuke, I don' t think
he's going to be dying in the next episode (maybe later on, you never know, but not in the next one). His objective for threatening suicide is to get Michiru back, so if he actually DIES then there's really no point in his action. He probably will attempt it, but leave the wound shallow enough to ensure that Michiru will find him in plenty of time before he's actually in dire need of medical services ^^
I've read some comments here criticizing Michiru for not cutting Ryo out of her life (pardon the pun ^^)
and that's really ignoring the truth of the situation. In DV cases like this in real life, the men rarely start raising their hands toward their girlfriends until they've been married, have had a long relationship, or until an emotional bond has been formed. Because that emotional tie is there, it makes it that much harder for the woman to leave. And it also leads the woman to make excuses for her boyfriend's cruel behavior, because she knows of his "tough childhood" (Sousuke).

Its easy to say "just leave," but it's a lot more complicated than that.

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Post by sleepyzzz » May 9th, '08, 16:26

Wow - discussions here seem to have gotten a little fiery since I last checked!!

Let's calm down and enjoy the show!

For me, last episode was a slight disappointment as I was left with the impression that Michiru was just not seeing the light (!) but there was finally a turnaround in Episode 5...
First of all, I was finally relieved that Michiru was standing up to Sousuke! About time! She actually lectured him a bit and told him strongly that she won't return as history will just repeat itself! Good! but dangerous! My attitude to Michiru has improved. Although she does go back to him, at least she's trying to stand up against him and she knows that it doesn't make sense to go back but she can't help it. With her character background, I can kind of understand that.

On a more important point: I agree with others here that Ruka was sometimes not overly helpful - too patronising but at the same time, I can understand that. It's very hard not to be like that when a person dear to you is in that situation. I COMPLETELY agree with ^Yuuki in that I don't see Ruka as just wanting Michiru's love - she just wanted to protect her - in a way that was maybe too harsh/strong. But she balanced it out in the end - like when she stopped MIchiru from throwing out the phone. She realised she was being extreme and pulled back. In the end, she knew Michiru was lying but pretended not to know and hope she will work it out. Honestly, I think that's the best any person can really do. Takeru's way was nice and easy to accept but doesn't necessarily do any good.

This episode was again emotional - I felt so sad for Ruka - like when Michiru asked whether Ruka liked someone and the scene outside the bar before Michiru runs to Sousuke. If only Michiru realised how painful those words were to Ruka. She says Ruka is so great, so strong etc - but she doesn't realise that all of Ruka's strength comes from her!! *sigh* Tissue box on the side please....
This is such a good show! The jump in ratings is clearly a sign that it's drawing attention!! I hope it hits 25% - that'll be pretty amazing for a drama with these kind of themes! :thumleft:

sleepyzzz
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Post by sleepyzzz » May 9th, '08, 16:34

Btw, I forgot to add - I don't care who's playing this Sousuke role - but I can't help but say that he's not on my good side and I'd rather him...........let's just say disappear from the face of this earth.

or better still, gets a beating from Ruka and Takeru! haha

Also, before my ideal ending was set on Ruka being together with Michiru but my attitude has changed. Now, all I want is for Ruka and everyone to be happy. I don't think Ruka needs to be with Michiru in a romantic way to be happy. If only she could just tell people (Takeru/Michiru) her frustrations and that she likes Michiru - and be accepted of it - then that's good enough. My ideal ending? Michiru, Takeru and Ruka all move back in together - they all know each others secrets and stay friends forever (oh and with the baby....)!

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 9th, '08, 17:33

AKlRA wrote:well not everyone hates sousuke and Nikishida Ryo is not even half as popular as
Yamashita Tomohisa. I couldn't even imagine him playing that role.... but it would be
amusing to see fans reaction.
Yamapi: WHAT DID I TELL YOU?
Michiru: STOP IT
Yamapi: *SLAP*
Michiru: *cry*
Yamapi: OW, MY HAND. OH GOD, IT HURTS. MY PRECIOUS HAND. ;O; GOD. DAMN... IT MY HAND.

He'd break just yelling at her.

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Post by bmwracer » May 9th, '08, 17:40

Posted in the Juri-chan thread: :thumright:
TokyoJuice wrote:Hikaru Utada posted 2 entries in her blog a few hours ago... And now guess!! It's about our Juri :D

私の見た上野樹里 5.9(Fri) 19:13 J
Translation: Ueno Juri in my view

私の見た上野樹里2 5.9(Fri) 19:19 J
Translation: Ueno Juri in my view 2

Hikki seems to see the same things in Juri as we do - which is gooood =)
Oh, and the first drawing is so cute - with that flower on her head!! Hahahah xD

[BTW my first post -haha- and I only registered to D-Addicts because of Juri & LAST FRIENDS xD (LOL)]
http://211.19.44.167/message/img1/2008050919135j.jpg

http://211.19.44.167/message/img1/2008050919195j.jpg
Last edited by bmwracer on May 9th, '08, 22:31, edited 1 time in total.

^Yuuki
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Post by ^Yuuki » May 9th, '08, 17:53

More photos~ This time from the 'future' share house scenes and other misc ones:
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Heheh, speaking of Yamashita Tomohisa and looking at all these photographs kinda reminded me of Proposal Daisakusen. Imagine Ruka looking at all those photographs of her and Michiru together and wondering what could have been. Now she's at Michiru and Sosuke's wedding, too late...but then a fairy with a beard appears! LOL. Hallelujah chance~! and she transported back to the past to 'fix' things. Hey it can be what the Last Friends: Another is about! :mrgreen:

(Heheh, sorry, couldn't resist...the above is obviously a joke that would only be understood by those who have seen ProDai) =3

bmwracer: Woah! Nice find people! Looks like Hikki definitely watches LF too. And she obviously likes Ueno Juri's performance~ Heheh. I've gotta go read the blog!
Editted: Oh, wait, she didn't. She watched the 'compiled' scenes on Youtube. Lol.
Last edited by ^Yuuki on May 9th, '08, 17:57, edited 1 time in total.

mutafaca
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Post by mutafaca » May 9th, '08, 18:13

personally i'd wait in the rain.. for masami of course :p

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Post by bmwracer » May 9th, '08, 18:50

^Yuuki wrote:bmwracer: Woah! Nice find people! Looks like Hikki definitely watches LF too. And she obviously likes Ueno Juri's performance~ Heheh. I've gotta go read the blog!
Editted: Oh, wait, she didn't. She watched the 'compiled' scenes on Youtube. Lol.
All the cred goes to TokyoJuice... :thumright:

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Post by TokyoJuice » May 9th, '08, 20:11

NP bmwracer ^^v

Hikki wrote @ Juri as Ruka: The determined expression on her face looked so kick-ass!
Aaaah, I agree with this!! Every time I see her (Ruka's) sad/desperate looking face I begin to cry! O__O'' The tears just keep rolling down my face and I just can't stop it >.<° Usually I don't cry so easily but Juri's acting is too good and I had to cry in every episode so far. And it always was because of Ruka's situation. Maybe we have a lot in common... It always gives me a stabbing pain in my heart when I see her in pain. And for me it's also like: She (Juri) gives me the feeling that she really IS Ruka. And then I also see "Wow, I know this feelings... Somehow I can identify my own situation with hers..." in her facial expression, gestures and so on...
Haha, something like that I guess xD
I just can't explain it properly...

^Yuuki
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Post by ^Yuuki » May 9th, '08, 20:30

Thanks for the heads up TokyoJuice~ ^^b

I can totally imagine the '2 totally different' person that Hikki mentioned. It's probably easier for us since we've seen her in action but Utada probably doesn't have time to watch dramas like she said so it's probably a big shock for her. :mrgreen:

P/S: Hey, did she draw Juri@Ruka on the back of Prisoner of Love's lyrics? I can kinda see the shadow there! XD

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Post by TokyoJuice » May 9th, '08, 21:27

^Yuuki wrote:P/S: Hey, did she draw Juri@Ruka on the back of Prisoner of Love's lyrics? I can kinda see the shadow there! XD
Haha :blink
Yes! I just noticed that, too!
She does it really often btw - I mean, drawing stuff like "Super Kuman"-Mangas on the back of her lyrics :roll

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 9th, '08, 21:37

Ahhh, could those really insanely large pics be put under a spoiler tag.... its hard to read the posts on this page XD

belleza
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Post by belleza » May 9th, '08, 22:28

er type of support for Michiru might be different from Takeru's approach(yeah, I like this kinda gender role reversal they're playing with in this drama) but they're both proving to be a much needed existence. Kinda like Yin and Yang.
Having not seen Episode 5, I'm going to speak through Episode 4 . . .

The thing about Michiru's relationship is that she has to hit a "bottom" where she cannot accept the circumstances with Sosuke anymore, and decides to move out. So, in that sense, nobody can make Michiru make that step forward, and she has to consciously put herself over Sosuke.
Ruka and Takeru's approach to Michiru represent divergent reactions that men and women friendships have toward a DV situation, though in their situation, you see a gender reversal.

Ruka, as "male", wants to protect Michuru from Sosuke. Which implies that she's made a definitive judgment upon, in her view, Sosuke as a "threat" (in other words, she's put a label on Sosuke) to Michiru and that Michiru must get away from the "threat." And she sees their domestic violence as a problem that must be solved, and that she must give advice Michiru so that she can avoid this, since it's "common sense" (judgment) that he's a "psychopath" (label).

Takeru, as "female", wants Michiru to change or understand her relationship with Sosuke. Takeru does not assign a judgment on Sosuke, but he sees their relationship as extremely dangerous to Michiru's welfare. In his limited time with Michiru, Takeru tries to facilitate Michiru to go through the process of evaluating her present situation as well as her relationship with Sosuke (much larger issues going on.) He's avoided giving advice and labeling Sosuke in front of her because he knows that Michiru will not open up around company, and therefore will not enter a dialogue whereby she can actually work through her issues. And he doesn't want her to view her friendships and relationships as "either/or" yet.

Neither approach is more correct than the other. But, the problem here is that Michiru has different expectations for Ruka when she was in the house. While it's true that Michiru would have eventually gone back to her apartment, Michiru shows through various parts of the episode that she's unsure whether she can talk to Ruka about this, and already in her mind, her predicament has already formed into "Ruka vs. Sosuke." That doesn't help Michiru work through her issues with Sosuke or resolve to leave him, and it seems that she very much wanted help in that throughout the episode.

My hunch is that Michiru's defensive nature will come out more aggressively through the 2nd half of the show. Because it also prevents Michiru from seeing the pain Ruka is going through, and how far Ruka will go to save her from that bastard.

Also, if Michiru and Takeru start getting closer (again, haven't seen Episode 5 . . . ), it'll be interested to see whether Takeru takes on a truly proactive role in Michiru's DV situation. That is, do we see Takeru remove himself from the role of impartial listener and become a protective male presence to fight against Sosuke. And if he does, how does Ruka adapt? Does she feel it marginalizes the help she gives Michiru, or does it free Ruka to take on a warmer, more affectionate/nurturing presence in their friendship. And in turn, how will it shift Sosuke's perspective.

So, a lot of politics and a lot of mixed messages.
I hope it hits 25% - that'll be pretty amazing for a drama with these kind of themes!
There's been such a huge word-of-mouth buzz over Juri's portrayal (and it's not about her transformation, but the depth by which she's articulated her character's love <-- which is rare even in straightforward J-drama love stories nowadays) that you're starting to see an older audience being pulled into the show. People are starting to see Last Friends as less a progressive youth drama and more as a throwback to 90s golden era (note the use of piano score, the understated and complex treatment given to the situations, the motif of friends watching the bay <-- hello Beautiful Life!). It's also changing the perception of Juri as a drama actress, moving her closer to that rarefied Shinohara/Shibasaki territory where your name is associated with "must see drama for everybody" (and also throwback to "when J-dramas were GOOD") and you're freed from public image dictating your roles.

With that said, I'd really like Last Friends to move away from structuring each episode around Sosuke's "Attack/Stalk of the Week" and to tone down the thriller elements in the storyline. It was very well executed with the first 2 episodes, but the continuation of it without evolving discourse from and about Sosuke keeps the story locked into a Ruka vs. Sosuke "good vs. evil" turf battle (and it tends to turn their voiceovers into a clue hunt rather than private revelation.) That not only presents a caricature of Sosuke as the abuser, but it also creates personality inconsistencies in Juri's portrayal of Ruka (though Eita hasn't had the same issues with Takeru) and diminishes the presence of the other characters. Or to put it another way, Ruka's life isn't just Michiru, and her issues (and the height of her dreams) won't go away even if they were to get together. In creating such a strong rooting interest with her, we sometimes lose sight of the big arc of her life or the greater, jagged puzzle that includes the other roomies. In that sense, Last Friends still plays for me like two different dramas with different narrative arcs (coming-of-age vs. "Lifetime battered housewife" drama) competing for air time.

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Post by bmwracer » May 9th, '08, 22:32

Ladymercury wrote:Ahhh, could those really insanely large pics be put under a spoiler tag.... its hard to read the posts on this page XD
Taken care of.... Gomen. :sweat:

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Post by jigenbakuda » May 10th, '08, 01:05

Alright this is starting to piss me off like bleach (the manga) DO NOT PUT INTERESTING CHARACTERS IN YOUR STORY IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE ME BACK STORY!!!!!! Already 5 episodes of this drama could be told with 3 characters...

Anyways my thoughts on sousuke
Well as was stated earlier they have given no reason to sympathize with sousuke. But I do feel sorry for him, I feel I understand his problems. He seems to lack self-control, gets very angry, very quickly, has problems effectively expressing his self/ problems with listening skills. In short the guy does not really have methods for handling people (more specifically michiru). The only way he can control her is with violence (its the only way he knows of solving his problems). It all points to a mental disorder, I would say the most noticeable being bipolar disorder. (Even women with this disorder act the same way[I talked to a lot when I worked at the public defenders office, lol]). If he could get some counseling and some meds he would be much better. From what I understand, japan does not do well with helping folks with mental disorders... Plus the guy was pass around from relative to relative, no way they cared enough to get his disorder checked out... Anyways, I feel sorry for him.
saucy romance in ep.5
Man, I was really really liking takeru x eri. Maybe its just because I'm starting to like her. I am really wanting to know more about eri. So beautiful, but ignored/turned down by all she wishes to be with. So sad. I want to know how much she cries to herself. She is the mostly bubbly on the outside (occupational side effect, lol), but she just seems so sad to me. When she had her arms around takeru it was the first time I saw her with a man (ogurin does not count, that is more a pity thing anyways , IMO). She looked so aroused, but it could of (and probably was) the wine. Although at first I wanted to see ruka x takeru, I now want eri x takeru (I know its impossible, I saw him wash his mouth out. While we are talking of that, I wonder was he a victim of incestuous molestation from his big sister. Who was that woman he was talking to on the phone? Did it ever say? It could of been a random stalker, it could of been his mom (she let the madness happen, and therefore will never forgive her, or forget about what she let occur), or it could of been his sister. Please tell me who that was on the phone, just incase its already been discovered.
Well unlike you guys, I kinda want a sad ending as most of the characters are already sad to begin with. They robbed me of my sad ending in ashita no kita yoshio, I am sure they will do it here too. But I'm just saying I want a sad ending. I love sad stories. (see untold scandal, best k-movie I ever saw)


fanboy pairing... ERI X MICHIRU FOR THE FLIPPIN WIN!

Edit: After reading back a couple pages...
I read that someone said that they are mad at ruka not helping michiru. Michiru is a grown @ss woman, what can ruka make her do? She has told her she thinks sousuke is bad. And she will even stand up for michiru when sousuke is there. She told her she can live with her, plus she has given a suggestion for a new boyfriend. What else can she do? Force michiru to do something, so she is no better than sousuke. As a man, I would not even do as much as ruka did, for one of my friends. I would tell them what I thought of the situation, maybe once or twice after that, I will just help when he comes to me for help. He must make his own choices in life, I'm not his father... Likewise ruka can do nothing more than she is doing, without interfering in something that is not her business.
Last edited by jigenbakuda on May 10th, '08, 01:24, edited 1 time in total.

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 10th, '08, 01:23

Well, Takeru kind of started that situation with Eri himself tho...
E: Ne, Takeru
T: Yes?
E: Am I a nice woman?
T: Hun? You're splendid woman. You're beautiful, you have a good character, and you're persistent.... and You know how to cut the situation in half when we argue! Eri... you are pretty.... Yes, a good woman.
E: ....
T: Let me wipe here...
E: ... I'm nice to you?
T: ....
E: Where's Michiru and Ruka?
T: .... Staying at Ruka's place...
E: Well, then, no one will be coming here tonight.
Basically, he fed into her want. He made her feel good, so she reacted to it.
(Translation by me)

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Post by jigenbakuda » May 10th, '08, 01:30

@Ladymercury
I completely agree. But his words were more his personality than something he was trying to do. Since he does not give off that "I'm trying to f*ck you" vibe, I can understand so many women feeling comfortable around him. Plus the guy never thinks of sex and has probably never had it (willingly). I bet he didn't even know those words to a buzzed woman = a "proposition"... He does the same for women all day, so I am sure he was blind-sided, lol. Poor lucky takeru. The things I would do to be in his position...

*breathing heavily* *thinks of a turned on eri*

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 10th, '08, 03:04

I agree. He didn't mean or had intention to set her off but because she probably never hears that a lot and she wanted companionship she just assumed that maybe he would have wanted to have sexytiems as well. Takeru is a nice boy, Eri just got confused. :3

sleepyzzz
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Post by sleepyzzz » May 10th, '08, 03:30

belleza: I think you are spot on when you said
There's been such a huge word-of-mouth buzz over Juri's portrayal (and it's not about her transformation, but the depth by which she's articulated her character's love <-- which is rare even in straightforward J-drama love stories nowadays
It is true that we have not seen a such a deep attachment expressed on screen in a long while. Add to the fact that Juri has amazing acting just brings this all to another level compared to other dramas. Juri is definitely a top class actress! I cannot stop saying how great she is. The way she has played Ruka is so natural - an absolute chameleon!
:D

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Post by AKlRA » May 10th, '08, 03:56

okay i think everyone needs to CHILL on what i say...
they're called personal opinions, it's a freaking DRAMA.
the whole point of discussing it is to tell how we feel about each character in our own
perspectives. it's a story, not a fact. we don't know if Sousuke had a tramatic past
or if he is just psycho.... i think it's fair to say that can be judged upon the viewer.
so everyone needs to stop getting all worked up just because im probably the only
person that has some sympathy for Sousuke. I'm probably also one of the fewer guys
on this discussion,and i'm straight so no i have no favor towards Ryo Nikishda either.
for a second stop judging what I THINK and instead take in what i say,
what others say, what you think
and learn to take this for what it is... a story told by
another person with characters that we are able to analyze, for our own pleasure.
i'm sorry that you all think im crazy because i have a drop of sympathy for a character
that "everyone's supposed to hate" but that's my opinion. don't make a big deal out of it.

and whoever said that i said RUKA IS NO HELP. I didn't say she is no help I said she is
not helping Michiru ease her pain. I never implied that Ruka should be a superhero and
beat the crap out of Sousuke. I don't disagree in the fact that Ruka is doing what she
can as a person BUT once again, because of the fact that Ruka has feelings for Michiru,
one can't help but think, EVEN A LITTLE that she is being selfish as well .

I understand that no
normal person would let their friend continue to be a victim of DV. And of course Ruka
would never let Michiru return to Sousuke, but isn't it a little sad even to think that this
person will kill himself from loneliness? You think if you married a guy and he hits you,
you would logically NEVER go near him, but how many people here know what it is like
to really be in love with someone? Especially someone like Michiru who has a messed up
family and felt alone all her life, thus she compares herself to Sousuke stating, "we are
the same." She feels a connection with him. They say human beings have an ultimate
flaw and that flaw or as some call, "a gift" is the ability to contain emotion. Love is a strong
emotion and that is obviously evident in any drama you'll watch. Although not always
realistic it portrays a strong sense of how people 'feel' and we can't all comprehend how
Michiru "feels".

So with all that said I hope everyone here understands where I'm coming from.
I may sympathize with Sousuke but don't misunderstand. I DONT LIKE HIM.
Like whoever asked, who would like a crazy violent guy like Sousuke? Which is
the right rhetorical question. Nobody WOULD.
I'm analyzing a character as a third person, who has NOTHING to do with the
character's drama. That is all.

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Post by jigenbakuda » May 10th, '08, 05:11

@Ladymercury
I guess its part of her solitude... No one has honestly told her those words before...

@akira
I can firmly say I am neutral on sousuke, I am no sousuke supporter, but I do not hate him either. I am interested in his character...but I am interested in other characters as well. Well I do not hate him for what he does, I look at is as interesting behavior. He obvious has something wrong.

Well to your "not helping michiru" comments. I would say you are wrong. I believe in my humble opinon, ruka has done everything she can. You can take a horse to the water, but you can not make him drink... Ruka has done everything she can to help ease michiru's pain. Only michiru can heal michiru's pain. And it will hurt much more, before it hurts less. Also you do not let some be a victim of DV, the person them self allows them to be dv-ed. How can you stop it? You can not. What could she do, call the police, so michiru can bail him out of jail? Then testify he has never laid a finger on her, with a black eye in court? Love is weird and highly irrational, I can not understand what keeps dv victims there, but its something and its strong.

It is sad he would kill his self from loneliness. But what is more sad is I am positive it is how he really feels inside. Without michiru, I do not want to live. I think most people on this board do not realize that he does love michiru. However warped and distorted his love is, its still love, and still feels the emptiness of not having michiru. Just because you don't like his actions doesn't mean he does not have feelings.

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 10th, '08, 05:21

I understand that Sousuke loves her. He loves her so much that he can't stand to see her go. This I know, or else he would have let her go ages of her. He's afraid of losing her so he is desperate with his actions to keep her. This I know, but because of this obsession -- this lust and gluttony for her -- he has became a monster.

Michiru is his drug. He's the addict.

I do believe that he would kill himself if he can't have Michiru, but I also think of him to be the type of person who would also kill her so that no one can have her as well. He's too dangerous and needs to be controlled.

sleepyzzz
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Post by sleepyzzz » May 10th, '08, 06:06

In episode 5, after the 'rape' scene when Michiru returns back to the Share House - did anyone notice that Ruka seemed to intentionally hold back from greeting Michiru? Even the camera is set on her just on that extra second. I think it's her trying to restrain the concern she has over Michiru - she doesn't want to appear to be jumping all over Michiru everytime she returns home - honestly, I think she's trying very hard...poor Ruka

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Post by ruka_michiru » May 10th, '08, 06:07

I do believe that he would kill himself if he can't have Michiru, but I also think of him to be the type of person who would also kill her so that no one can have her as well. He's too dangerous and needs to be controlled.
I think so too. Sousuke's love to Michiru is so "intense" that it drives him madly insane when he sense that Michiru is out of his "sight". It's suffocating and doesn't leave you any space to breathe. His life kinda "revolves" around Michiru, that he'll do anything to hold on to it whatever it takes.

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Post by MuffyLantis » May 10th, '08, 06:08


jigenbakuda
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Post by jigenbakuda » May 10th, '08, 06:12

Ladymercury wrote:I understand that Sousuke loves her. He loves her so much that he can't stand to see her go. This I know, or else he would have let her go ages of her. He's afraid of losing her so he is desperate with his actions to keep her. This I know, but because of this obsession -- this lust and gluttony for her -- he has became a monster.

Michiru is his drug. He's the addict.

I do believe that he would kill himself if he can't have Michiru, but I also think of him to be the type of person who would also kill her so that no one can have her as well. He's too dangerous and needs to be controlled.
Oh so true. I think he needs to be controlled. He is a potential danger to society. Great post, I think it really sums up this guy as of ep.5

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Post by bmwracer » May 10th, '08, 06:15

Ladymercury wrote:I understand that Sousuke loves her. He loves her so much that he can't stand to see her go. This I know, or else he would have let her go ages of her. He's afraid of losing her so he is desperate with his actions to keep her. This I know, but because of this obsession -- this lust and gluttony for her -- he has became a monster.

Michiru is his drug. He's the addict.

I do believe that he would kill himself if he can't have Michiru, but I also think of him to be the type of person who would also kill her so that no one can have her as well. He's too dangerous and needs to be controlled.
Is it odd that Sosuke got this way after Michiru moved in with this him?

It's unknown how long they had been dating up until she moved in, but once she got into his place, dude went into Sleeping With the Enemy mode. :sweat:


EDIT:
MuffyLantis wrote:Check out what Utada Hikaru did 8D

http://211.19.44.167/message/index.php? ... 19135j.xml

and

http://211.19.44.167/message/index.php? ... 19195j.xml

and hi, i'm new. haha.
I already posted this on the previous page. :mrgreen:

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Post by khmai_kandi22 » May 10th, '08, 06:18

ruka_michiru wrote:It's suffocating and doesn't leave you any space to breathe. His life kinda "revolves" around Michiru, that he'll do anything to hold on to it whatever it takes.
This may be kind of off-topic but what you just said, reminds me of the song by Jordin Sparks called, "No Air." If you listen to the song, you can relate it together. The song is basically saying that they can't separate or live without each other. Just like no air, they can't breathe... Everyone should check the song out. Here's the lyrics and breakdown of it if you guys want to read:

[Jordin Sparks:]
If I should die before I wake
It's cause you took my breath away
Losing you is like living in a world with no air
Oh

[Chris Brown:]
I'm here alone didn't wanna leave
My heart won't move it's incomplete
If there was a way that I could make you understand

[Hook: Jordin Sparks]
But how do you expect me to live alone with just me? cause my world revolves around you it's so hard for me to breathe

[Chrous: Jordin Sparks & Chris Brown]
Tell me how I'm supposed to breathe with no air?
Can't live, can't breathe with no air
It's how I feel whenever you ain't there
It's no air, no air
Got me out here in the water so deep
Tell me how you gon breathe without me?
If you ain't here I just can't breathe
It's no air, no air

No air, air [x4]

[Chris Brown:]
I walk, I ran, I jump, I flew
Right off the ground to float to you
WIth no gravity to hold me down forreal

[Jordin Sparks:]
But somehow I'm still alive inside
You took my breathe but I survived
I don't how but I don't even care

[Hook: Jordin Sparks & Chris Brown]
So how do you expect me to live alone with just me? cause my world revolves around you it's so hard for me to breathe

[Chrous: Jordin Sparks & Chris Brown]
Tell me how I'm supposed 2 breathe with no air?
Can't live, can't breathe with no air
It's how I feel whenever you ain't there
It's no air, no air
Got me out here in the water so deep
Tell me how you gon breathe without me?
If you ain't here I just can't breathe
It's no air, no air

No air, air [x4]
No more
It's no air, no air

[Jordin Sparks & Chris Brown:] OH

[Chrous: Jordin Sparks&Chris Brown]
Tell me how I'm supposed 2 breathe with no air?
Can't live, can't breathe with no air
It's how I feel whenever you ain't there
It's no air, no air
Got me out here in the water so deep
Tell me how you gon breathe without me?
If you ain't here I just can't breathe
It's no air, no air

No air, no air [x4]
[faded]
So how do you expect me to live alone with just me? cause my world revolves around you it's so hard for me to breathe

Tell me how I'm supposed 2 breathe with no air?
Can't live, can't breathe with no air
It's how I feel whenever you ain't there
It's no air, no air

[Jordin Sparks:] Got me out here in the water so deep
[Chris Brown:] Tell me how you gon breathe without me?
[Jordin Sparks:] If you ain't here I just can't breathe
[Jordin Sparks & Chris Brown:] It's no air, no air

No air, air [x3]

Ladymercury
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Post by Ladymercury » May 10th, '08, 06:44

bmwracer wrote:
Ladymercury wrote:I understand that Sousuke loves her. He loves her so much that he can't stand to see her go. This I know, or else he would have let her go ages of her. He's afraid of losing her so he is desperate with his actions to keep her. This I know, but because of this obsession -- this lust and gluttony for her -- he has became a monster.

Michiru is his drug. He's the addict.

I do believe that he would kill himself if he can't have Michiru, but I also think of him to be the type of person who would also kill her so that no one can have her as well. He's too dangerous and needs to be controlled.
Is it odd that Sosuke got this way after Michiru moved in with this him?

It's unknown how long they had been dating up until she moved in, but once she got into his place, dude went into Sleeping With the Enemy mode. :sweat:
But hey, in Fatal Attraction, it only took two hawt steamy nights for Micheal Douglas' character to be freakishly stalked by Glenn Close's character XD I guess it just takes a little something to drive someone over board.

Let's hope Sousuke doesn't kill pet rabbits and leave them cooking on a stove. :whistling:

AKlRA
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Post by AKlRA » May 10th, '08, 08:07

jigenbakuda wrote:@Ladymercury
I guess its part of her solitude... No one has honestly told her those words before...

@akira
I can firmly say I am neutral on sousuke, I am no sousuke supporter, but I do not hate him either. I am interested in his character...but I am interested in other characters as well. Well I do not hate him for what he does, I look at is as interesting behavior. He obvious has something wrong.

Well to your "not helping michiru" comments. I would say you are wrong. I believe in my humble opinon, ruka has done everything she can. You can take a horse to the water, but you can not make him drink... Ruka has done everything she can to help ease michiru's pain. Only michiru can heal michiru's pain. And it will hurt much more, before it hurts less. Also you do not let some be a victim of DV, the person them self allows them to be dv-ed. How can you stop it? You can not. What could she do, call the police, so michiru can bail him out of jail? Then testify he has never laid a finger on her, with a black eye in court? Love is weird and highly irrational, I can not understand what keeps dv victims there, but its something and its strong.

It is sad he would kill his self from loneliness. But what is more sad is I am positive it is how he really feels inside. Without michiru, I do not want to live. I think most people on this board do not realize that he does love michiru. However warped and distorted his love is, its still love, and still feels the emptiness of not having michiru. Just because you don't like his actions doesn't mean he does not have feelings.


I agree. The only person that can help Michiru is Michiru.
Ruka just needs to better understand Michiru instead of soley trying
to keep her away from Sousuke.

This drama is
already fated to be a tragic ending, and we pretty much understand
that Michiru nor Ruka finds any true happiness with one another. But
one can hope that we see a stronger side of Ruka (stronger meaning,
to herself.) and an even stronger Michiru. For if Michiru does not end up
with Sousuke in the end, then we know that Michiru has at least become
a stronger person, perhaps because of Ruka.




Btw, I really dislike subtitles in asian dramas.
Asian language tend to have this somewhat subliminal context
about things said. There are many different ways to say practically the same thing,
but each way expresses a totally different emotion. Wouldn't you agree?
Just a random thought.

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Post by bmwracer » May 10th, '08, 08:18

AKlRA wrote:Btw, I really dislike subtitles in asian dramas.
Asian language tend to have this somewhat subliminal context
about things said. There are many different ways to say practically the same thing,
but each way expresses a totally different emotion. Wouldn't you agree?
Just a random thought.
Without subtitles, the majority of us would be completely in the dark, so what choice do we have? :scratch:

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Post by ruka_michiru » May 10th, '08, 08:39

bmwracer wrote:
AKIRA wrote: Btw, I really dislike subtitles in asian dramas.
Asian language tend to have this somewhat subliminal context
about things said. There are many different ways to say practically the same thing,
but each way expresses a totally different emotion. Wouldn't you agree?
Just a random thought.
Without subtitles, the majority of us would be completely in the dark, so what choice do we have?
...And with out the subtitles, we won't be able to enjoy watching these dramas. I think we just have to be thankful that there are wonderful people out there who are VERY KIND and PATIENT enough to translate these Asian languages for us. And let them know that we appreciate their hard work :-)

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Post by GoddessCarlie » May 10th, '08, 08:39

@ AKlRA:

Things always get lost in translation, and for a lot of us we depend on them to really understand.

I don't like Sousuke as a person, but I like him as a character - i think he is an interesting character. I agree with someone who said that the story line revolving around "What will he do next?" kind of thing is getting a bit repetitive. However, I am enjoying his part in the show. I think
his threatening to kill himself is all about control. In fact I think it's all about control. And he's being selfish. People fall in love with bad people all the time, because a lot of bad people have great things about them as well. You can't help who you fall in love with. And while it's frustrating that Michiru keeps going back to him, we can see some parts where she defies him as well.
AKlRA wrote:I'll be honest,
I understand Sousuke, not the whole DV part, but guys do tend to be
VIOLENT either physically or mentally. Most guys want to break chairs, cups,
throw things, etc when they are ticked but it's called COMPOSURE. We learn to
let our mental state come first before the physical but guys are more PHYSICAL
naturally, as girls are more sensitive, naturally.
I think this is a load of crap. At least in my experience I'd say that guys are just as sensitive as girls and girls are just as physical as boys. That it is "natural" for guys to be violent is just a huge cop out. Don't try to justify bad behaviour with a chromosome.

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Post by GoddessCarlie » May 10th, '08, 08:46

ruka_michiru wrote:
bmwracer wrote:
AKIRA wrote: Btw, I really dislike subtitles in asian dramas.
Asian language tend to have this somewhat subliminal context
about things said. There are many different ways to say practically the same thing,
but each way expresses a totally different emotion. Wouldn't you agree?
Just a random thought.
Without subtitles, the majority of us would be completely in the dark, so what choice do we have?
...And with out the subtitles, we won't be able to enjoy watching these dramas. I think we just have to be thankful that there are wonderful people out there who are VERY KIND and PATIENT enough to translate these Asian languages for us. And let them know that we appreciate their hard work :-)
And... (hehe, want to add more!) I think that it would be obvious that something gets lost in translation. In the format of TV, we have pictures to help get the meaning across, an advantage over, say, translating a book. However, in a book you can spend a page or so explaining a particular cultural practise or use a few sentences to get across the idea of what was said in one in the original text.

However, with TV, we only have such a small amount of time before the next line of dialogue is said, so any special nuance must be sacrificed.

In this regard, I would say that the subbers do a FANTASTIC job. Translating is not easy, I know, I've done it! It's definitely not a natural process and takes considerable effort and time. So thank you to all subbers out there.

I would also suggest that watching subtitled Dramas is a fantastic method to incorporate into learning the Japanese language, so that one day we wont have to rely on them (and instead, perhaps, producing them ourselves to help the new generation!)

These forums are also an excellent place to discuss the nuances that were missed in the translation. So if you have a great example, I'm sure we'd all love to hear about it and discuss it so we all get a deeper understanding of the show!

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Post by Rinnetensei » May 10th, '08, 09:18

Speaking of subs...I'm dying over here! I need my episode 5 fix! I could only understand 1/3 of the dialogue :(

karin-chan
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Post by karin-chan » May 10th, '08, 09:58

is this drama worth watching?

GoddessCarlie
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Post by GoddessCarlie » May 10th, '08, 10:07

karin-chan wrote:is this drama worth watching?
As for me, I say yes, but everyone has different opinions and the only way you'll know if it is worth watching acording to you is to watch it and find out.

Yes, i'm difficult, I know! But I think this is the best drama of the season so far.

jigenbakuda
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Post by jigenbakuda » May 10th, '08, 15:37

GoddessCarlie wrote:
AKlRA wrote:I'll be honest,
I understand Sousuke, not the whole DV part, but guys do tend to be
VIOLENT either physically or mentally. Most guys want to break chairs, cups,
throw things, etc when they are ticked but it's called COMPOSURE. We learn to
let our mental state come first before the physical but guys are more PHYSICAL
naturally, as girls are more sensitive, naturally.
I think this is a load of crap. At least in my experience I'd say that guys are just as sensitive as girls and girls are just as physical as boys. That it is "natural" for guys to be violent is just a huge cop out. Don't try to justify bad behaviour with a chromosome.
Isn't that a bit harsh? In my personal experience boys in general are far more aggressive and violent than ladies. Even if the lady has anger issues (a man with anger issues is worse). Even at young ages, boys fight more, and are more confrontational, as men I know I would prefer to fight another man as opposed to talking out our differences, but thats illegal and I'll get taken to jail, so I conform. Have you ever really hung out with a group of guys that had absolutely no desire to "be" with you? You would see how guys are, lol. Guys are always on their top behavior infront of ladies they want to "be" with. All I'm saying is, in my experience, most of the males I have encountered in my life have been aggressive/violent. Maybe I have been around a special group of gentlemen in my life, lol. But I would say men DEFINITELY want to throw stuff and destroy things when they are pissed, at least I know I do. So I agree with akira.

Also girls are more sensitive naturally, thats why women make great mothers. Its a maternal "instinct" . But there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. There are sensitive boys and aggressive girls... But if you say boys are not more agressive/violent than women, I would be willing to bet, you have never really been that close to that many guys non-romantically (non-romantic from their side of course).

Oh yea, yea, let me add that DV has VERY little to do with violence, its more mental than anything. Violence is in it, but its a mental thing. The mixed messages do more to mess up a DV victim than anything. Its like pledging a frat, they beat you and stuff, but its the mind that is feeling taxed, not the body, the pledging process is one to mess with the mind (although it usually involves violence).

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Post by strawberrynkiwi » May 10th, '08, 15:48

Ladymercury wrote:
AKlRA wrote:well not everyone hates sousuke and Nikishida Ryo is not even half as popular as
Yamashita Tomohisa. I couldn't even imagine him playing that role.... but it would be
amusing to see fans reaction.
Yamapi: WHAT DID I TELL YOU?
Michiru: STOP IT
Yamapi: *SLAP*
Michiru: *cry*
Yamapi: OW, MY HAND. OH GOD, IT HURTS. MY PRECIOUS HAND. ;O; GOD. DAMN... IT MY HAND.

He'd break just yelling at her.
ROFL. You just made my day.
I can't never see Yamapi in a abusive role, but Ryo I can see.
I think Ryo casted as Sosuke made Sosuke ultra scary, yet sympathetic.
When Ryo doesn't smile, he looks so emo to me. (which is also probably what makes him hot)
To me, gahhh he is prefect for Sosuke and I can't help to see Sosuke in Ryo every now and then. The look serious intense in his eyes is just *shivers*

I like Ryo like this. so cute lol
Image

tisa
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Post by tisa » May 10th, '08, 15:53

I wonder if DV can be curred. i wish that was the case because i really fell sorry for Sousuke and Michiru as well and i would like to see them happy together because i can see clearly that he loves her very much.
The scene in the end of episode 4 was breaking my heart and seeing this really made me hope for a happy ending for them.

Well people who don't believe in the fact that guys are naturally more aggressive should look up this matter, like reading some researches because i'm sure there's lots of them in the net.

karin-chan
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Post by karin-chan » May 10th, '08, 16:08

GoddessCarlie wrote:
karin-chan wrote:is this drama worth watching?
As for me, I say yes, but everyone has different opinions and the only way you'll know if it is worth watching acording to you is to watch it and find out.

Yes, i'm difficult, I know! But I think this is the best drama of the season so far.
with that im downloading it now.. thanks!! :wub:

Daish
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Post by Daish » May 10th, '08, 16:09

bmwracer wrote:Posted in the Juri-chan thread: :thumright:
TokyoJuice wrote:Hikaru Utada posted 2 entries in her blog a few hours ago... And now guess!! It's about our Juri :D

私の見た上野樹里 5.9(Fri) 19:13 J
Translation: Ueno Juri in my view

私の見た上野樹里2 5.9(Fri) 19:19 J
Translation: Ueno Juri in my view 2

Hikki seems to see the same things in Juri as we do - which is gooood =)
Oh, and the first drawing is so cute - with that flower on her head!! Hahahah xD

[BTW my first post -haha- and I only registered to D-Addicts because of Juri & LAST FRIENDS xD (LOL)]
http://211.19.44.167/message/img1/2008050919135j.jpg

http://211.19.44.167/message/img1/2008050919195j.jpg

OMG Thanks guys, Tokyojuice and BMWracer!! would have never arrived upon these without your help ^^

the pic is so cute, why is there (literally) a flower on her head :lol

And this thread is ridicuously fast growing, its now at 11 pages per episode already!!

tisa
Posts: 204
Joined: Jan 23rd, '06, 13:00
Location: Slovenia

Post by tisa » May 10th, '08, 16:55

Takeru has the kind of personality I dislike the most. He seems indecisive and gives women compliments even though he isn't interested in them (or is he? anyways we don't know that) and then he even excepts their advances. So irresponsible.

bmwracer
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Post by bmwracer » May 10th, '08, 17:10

tisa wrote:Takeru has the kind of personality I dislike the most. He seems indecisive and gives women compliments even though he isn't interested in them (or is he? anyways we don't know that) and then he even excepts their advances. So irresponsible.
Does he have to be interested in a woman in order to give her a compliment?

Is there something inherently wrong with someone just being kind and nice and not have an ulterior motive? :scratch:

Ladymercury
Posts: 575
Joined: Mar 27th, '05, 06:04

Post by Ladymercury » May 10th, '08, 17:48

Yes. Takeru represents innocence but tainted innocence. It's not wrong for him to compliment a woman. A man doesn't always have to be interested in a woman to compliment them.

ritas
Posts: 3
Joined: May 10th, '08, 18:26

Post by ritas » May 10th, '08, 18:34

I signed up basically to comment on the domestic violence. It's fine to have sympathy for Sousuke and his own problems. It's quite another to cheer for his reunion with michiru. He doesn't love her and love is not what is driving his behavior. It's obsession and never confuse that with love, you never want anyone to "love" you like that because that's not love. It's obsession. He thinks it's love, love that makes him stand in the rain all night, it's obsession. If he got himself some help he might be able to have normal relationships and learn to really love someone but this version of him cannot have a good relationship based on actual love.

No one can help michiru. All you can do is tell her you'll be there for her. She has to love herself enough to hit her own bottom and leave that situation. You cannot save Sousuke, michiru thinks she can, but only he can save himself and only she can save herself. Sadly, some women in these situation never hit their bottom or they get murdered.

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fayenatic
Posts: 121
Joined: Dec 14th, '03, 16:05

Post by fayenatic » May 10th, '08, 19:41

AKlRA wrote: I agree. The only person that can help Michiru is Michiru.
Ruka just needs to better understand Michiru instead of soley trying
to keep her away from Sousuke.
The only thing Ruka has ever wanted to do was to protect Michiru -- even when they were in high school. That's what you do when you truly love or deeply care about someone -- you never want to see them hurt and will protect them from harm at any costs. But in this case, Michiru needs to finally learn to stand up for herself. I think this is why I really like this drama; the fact that the relationships and situations are so realistic that anyone can relate to them. Nothing seems contrived and it makes perfect sense for the characters to behave the way they do.

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