Don't Japanese actresses like to kiss?

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
ssih
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Don't Japanese actresses like to kiss?

Post by ssih » Mar 12th, '09, 17:30

As I'm watching more and more jdramas, I'm noticing that they're all pretty much devoid of any passionate kissing. They avoid kissing, or if they do kiss, it's like they're doing their best to simply withstand it.

(minor spoilers in next paragraph)
At the end of HanaKimi, the lead actor kisses Horikita Maki. Now throughout the series, this seems like the thing that she's been dreaming of. He puts some effort into it, but she looks like a statue - eyes open, arms at her side - it looked like he was kissing someone in a coma. In Innocent Love, she kisses a guy, but the lighting is so subdued that for all we know (and I'd put serious money on this), the actors' lips might not even be making contact. In Proposal Daisakusan, when a couple is married, the minister says "you may kiss the bride". You see them lean toward each other, and then we cut away to someone looking on, then cut back after the kiss is over.
I've seen several other instances where you'd have thought that there would be a kiss, but it doesn't happen. Or two people supposedly madly in love kiss like they're brother and sister.

Is that simply the way they are in Japan, or is this a level of intimacy that Japanese actors refuse to go to, in the same way that certain western actors won't do an explicit sex scene?

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archive18
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Post by archive18 » Mar 12th, '09, 17:35

More then likly it might be the japenese censors !

HypnoSurf22
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Post by HypnoSurf22 » Mar 12th, '09, 17:44

As far as kissing in public, its just jpn culture. They aren't comfortable with public acts of affection like kissing. That probably spills over in general to dramas.

chasen8888
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Post by chasen8888 » Mar 12th, '09, 18:06

I agree with you about the Japanese culture in terms of kissing, however there is nothing wrong with showing a couple being very close in private. But I swear that when I watch them try to do so on screen they do not know how, no chemistry and definitely no passion is grasped from watching them, so its a turn off somewhat, you have to wonder if this is main couple. From what I understand in terms of statistics they have the lowest sex drive in the world, yet if you check it out in terms of the production of manga (though I do like a few of the manga) and hentai they have one of the highest and most perverted ever done. Its so twisted, this so called intimacy is not into the person but on paper. Their focus is on hard work and success as a dream, not that I disagree with that but I don't believe it should control their life. (No offense to the Japanese people/ jdrama fans out there but this is just my general observations with their shows). I just do not understand their views on sex, love and intimacy it just somewhat strange to me.

Its also one of the reasons why I got turned off by jdramas to a degree, their shows had little or no passion to it. Not looking for a US type of drama mind you, but please act as if you live or exists or even feeilng something. If you want to see some form of dramas showing that there is more to life with some kissing or romance or comedy, I highly recommend that you check out kdramas and twdramas. Twdramas are usually lighthearted (in terms of story content, most of them are comedic) but there is usually some kissing in it, I'll say 8/10. With kdramas its there but not as pronounced, the focus is more on the story, but they do provide some form of passion (in terms of life to it) and show that there is more to life than just work or a dream. Even when there is no kissing in the drama, you get the sense of romance to it. There is very little/no explicit sex scenes, so they can definitely be watched. I recommend kdrama - Coffee Prince as a starter for you (kdrama), Resurrection (suspense with a bit of romance), 1% of anything (its good as well, introduced me to kdrama); Fated to love you (twdrama) these are good stuff for what you are looking for (mysoju.com has all of them and more).

Take Care
Last edited by chasen8888 on Mar 12th, '09, 18:30, edited 1 time in total.

powerKid
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Post by powerKid » Mar 12th, '09, 18:08

It is true that this kind of kissing is rather embarrassing, but not for the actors but for the quality of their acting.

Young people have come to get more like westerners and kiss and hold hands on the streets but it still is kind of strange to Japanese culture to have direct body contact with the other sex as part of a romantic relation.

Which makes me think that the actors are able to do passionate love scenes but know that it is inappropriate and that is why they don't do it, perhaps.

Because when you just think of the huge sex market in Japan, or just any normal magazine for young women or men you will always find pictures of how to do sex or manuals or something with pictures more obvious than you could ever see in an American or European magazine that is not erotically motivated.

In my opinion that should NOT be depicted in dramas, movies or anything because it looks hilarious and makes the whole setting look childish and cheap in my opinion.

That may be one reason why Japanese movies fail at international audiences except fans.

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mitsubachisan
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Post by mitsubachisan » Mar 12th, '09, 18:17

I also recognized that most of the kissing scenes i've watched are far from what we would call passionate...
except takizawa hideaki in boku dake no madonna and matsumoto jun in kimi wa petto
they REALLY kissed
I can only hope that these stone-like kisses in doramas are not so common in real life
otherwise I only can say poor Japanese...

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Mar 12th, '09, 18:53

Yeah.. I've noticed kissing scenes where like... well, the lips are barely touching. >< <------- That's what I see really. And they just stand there. Maybe it is a cultural thing to not display that kind of affection on TV, but you know... there are pervy otaku guys and they can go all-out with their personalities with them in dramas >__> But yeah, I do admit the kissing in many jdramas aren't the best. But! I don't want to see like... mouth molestation though! Just... kinda make me believe they like each other if they're so much "in love." But yeah, I'm kinda leaning to the "display of affection on TV can't be so detailed" idea.... since it is a different cultural and the ideas on TV aren't the same as it is in the US.

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Post by h1pp0 » Mar 12th, '09, 18:58

mitsubachisan wrote:I also recognized that most of the kissing scenes i've watched are far from what we would call passionate...
except takizawa hideaki in boku dake no madonna and matsumoto jun in kimi wa petto
they REALLY kissed
I just finished watching kimi wa petto last week and the kissing scene in the second to last episode on the couch was very intense. It wasn't one of those fake kisses they really went at it and it wasn't just one kiss it was about 6-7 small kisses. I'll see if I can cut out the clip and put it up. By far the best kiss scene I ever seen in any drama.

Edit: Here's the link to the kissing scene

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2528M89X
Last edited by h1pp0 on Mar 12th, '09, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Mar 12th, '09, 19:11

Aw man I can't remember that kissing scene... it's been so long since I've last seen it >_< I dunno what CD I put that drama on... But yay! Intenseness!

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~kani~
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Post by ~kani~ » Mar 12th, '09, 19:11

I have noticed that too... And I hate so much those kissing scenes where the girl just
closes her eyes and the guy slowly approaches her face and then their lips touch
and.. it's over... Kimi wa petto had a good kissing scene ^^ I was taken by surprise when I watched it.

This week, I watched Devil beside you, tw-drama... my first chinese drama :S it was quite bad, but when they started kissing each other... I was like: O____O they are really kissing~
lately I have watched only japanese dramas and korean BBF... and the next gossip girl is being delayed. So I haven't seen anything intimate between actors and actresses for awhile. :goggle:

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Post by ssih » Mar 12th, '09, 20:09

That's funny - I forgot about that multiple kissing scene in Kimi wa Petto. I could only remember when that tall guy (the guy that proposed to her) kissed her at her door. She kept her arms between them and it didn't look like she reacted much at all - didn't move her lips, but she did close her eyes briefly. I just attributed her cold reaction as a way of them telling us that this wasn't really the guy for her.

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Niji-Rach
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Post by Niji-Rach » Mar 12th, '09, 20:25

This whole think made me remember the kissing scene between Toma and Shun in Hana Kimi. Even though Shun was 'drunk' and Toma just didn't wanted that Maki to be kissed, their kiss was even more passionate o_O Than the one Maki en Shun shared...
I was watching that last episode and the second Shun bowed over to her I really jolted around in my room, "YAAAAAAY FINALLY!" And when I saw it I was... really.... really disappointed. The way he kissed her was the way I kiss my eight year old little brother before he goes to bed.

I suppose its a culture thing. Though, MatsuJun's kissings scene's look good mostly. o.o (Boku wa Imouto ni Koi wo Suru, as I remember the title clearly and Hana Yori Dango.)

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crocus
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Post by crocus » Mar 12th, '09, 20:54

mitsubachisan wrote:I also recognized that most of the kissing scenes i've watched are far from what we would call passionate...
except takizawa hideaki in boku dake no madonna and matsumoto jun in kimi wa petto
they REALLY kissed
the kiss from takizawa hideaki in boku dake no madonna hurts me... :cry: :cry: :cry:
LOL
the kiss at the stadium was good that i wish he could hold and kiss me like that... :P

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Post by aaendaus » Mar 12th, '09, 21:20

I don't think that over passionate kissing would work well in Japan. Many actors and actresses are more of idols, they are produced to gain fandoms and become marketable living advertisements. It's a great strategy for sales, get a pretty boy or girl that everyone has the hots for to say "buy my product...please (cute puppy-dog eyes)". If these idols are not attached to anyone it gives the impression that they are also an attainable unattainable person, therefore increasing popularity. That's why many idols need to hide the fact that they're in relationships. If there's a drama and the actors/actresses are too intimate the magic is lost and their popularity decreases. A slight decrease will decrease their advertisement jobs, limit their place in the public eye, further decreasing their popularity. Downward spiral! Eventually they get wiped off the board and vanish into oblivion as several new faces replace them. The entertainment of Asia in general is much more cut-throat than the American and European entertainment industries. It's easier to get a 15mins. of spotlight in Japan than America, but it's a lot... a lot harder to hold a career. Although foreigner's enjoy more passion, the direct market is for the Japanese, that's where the money is, that's where their jobs are, that's where most of their fan base lies! I mean everyone knows that there are a lot of crappy American movies, Americans love them, even if the rest of the world thinks otherwise. Does America change for the foreigner's?...

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Post by ssih » Mar 12th, '09, 21:36

aaendaus wrote:If these idols are not attached to anyone it gives the impression that they are also an attainable unattainable person, therefore increasing popularity.
While I respect your opinion, I can't agree with it. I don't see the logic in someone thinking "I've watched these two idols fawn over each other through ten episodes and heard their thoughts as they proclaimed their passionate love, but since the kiss was so platonic, I know that I've still got a shot at dating that actress, and a good start would be to buy the candy bars she hawks."

This doesn't make sense on several levels. If I were so deluded to think along these lines, wouldn't I also think "Well, I really wanted to dedicate my life to that actress, but she kisses like crap, so I'm not into her any more and I'm not going to buy her products."

I think that most of us want to live vicariously through the actors. I know I don't have a shot at her, and I'd like the actor to do what I'd do. In many of the episodes of Kurosagi, they'd show a close-up of Horikita Maki looking sad and tearing up. I wanted to reach into the tv, slap YamaPi and yell, "DUDE!! What is friggin' wrong with you?? Look at her! How can you not kiss her for christ sake!!"

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Post by h1pp0 » Mar 12th, '09, 22:05

ssih wrote:I think that most of us want to live vicariously through the actors. I know I don't have a shot at her, and I'd like the actor to do what I'd do. In many of the episodes of Kurosagi, they'd show a close-up of Horikita Maki looking sad and tearing up. I wanted to reach into the tv, slap YamaPi and yell, "DUDE!! What is friggin' wrong with you?? Look at her! How can you not kiss her for christ sake!!"
I'm a Horikita Maki fan as well and I had the exact same reaction as you. I rarely get so emotion watching jdramas and I'm also a fan of Yamashita Tomohisa but watching Kurosagi I never wanted to slap him so much for not kissing or comforting Maki.

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Post by HypnoSurf22 » Mar 12th, '09, 22:56

Like everyone else I also get tired at the constent anti-climactic love scene at the end of so many jdramas. I often find myself screaming in my head at the male lead, KISS HER YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!! only to wind up with a lousey hug or a pathetic, half-ass smooch. I think if there's anyone to blame in this aspect of jpn culture the fault lies squarely with the jpn male. From my own experience, jpn women like romance and would like to be swept off there feet and properly kissed but jpn guys are often too shy, or too lazy, or too chicken-**** to be the Casanova. Its no wonder you see so many jgirls traveling around the world falling in love with us gaijins.

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Post by powerKid » Mar 12th, '09, 23:09

In fact, every women desires passionate love and wants wild romance and sex, even Japanese women.

But it a society thing and blah blah you all know. So about the kissing it really seems just ridiculous to me. The contrast again is that there are like octopus pornography and bukkake and Lolita porn and strange stuff and the strangest sex toys and everything sells.

even when it comes to movies, there was one on this years Berlinale which was about sex and violence mixed up in someway....

god this is interesting.

anyways, in Koizora, when she had her first kiss she just looked irritated and they probably didn't even touch their lips cause you couldn't see anything at all....

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Mar 12th, '09, 23:24

I just thought about it! Is it because during like, high school dramas, they don't want the lovers to like.. be so intimate since a lot of the actresses and actors are like underage in most of those dramas? Because it seems that a lot of the highschool dramas I watch, those kissing scenes suck.

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Post by quandary » Mar 12th, '09, 23:37

I'm thinking it may, among other things, have to do with the market some of these dramas are aimed at. There are plenty of examples of realistic passionate embraces and kissing in dramas aimed specifically at adults, that is mature audiences, not porn, if you get my drift. The dramas aimed at younger audiences which is what we see predominately here on D-addicts are pretty subdued when it comes to the more passionate side of romance. It's like television in the US in the 50s (Yeah, I'm old enough to remember). The Japanese seem to have an overwhelming sense of propriety about some things. I'm not making a value judgment here, just an observation. In a drama it seems as though young actors are expected to be role models exhibiting ideal behavior. Look at what happens to those that fall, or are perceived to fall, from grace, like Akiko Yada and Eri Sawagiri. The Japanese set a very high standard of behavior for themselves, something I admire very much about them, but it can be stifling too, and we get silly things like kisses that look as though it's unpleasant for the actors.

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Post by Eddie113 » Mar 12th, '09, 23:49

yeah, it's definetly the cultural difference, since a lot of japanese culture is portrayed with innocence, and wanting their women to be pure.....which is funny since they have the exact antithesis with those giant sex stores....either way, when i watch a jdrama, i enjoy the build up of the relationship and the stories, more than a single kiss....but you know, a passionate kiss would seal the deal on some great jdrama couples, lol

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yenchan69
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Post by yenchan69 » Mar 13th, '09, 00:04

OK, the best kiss I ever saw in a Japanese drama (Pride) out of about 40+ jdramas I've watched:

It comes up @ ~ 5:30 into the clip

so it's not that it can't be done. However, compared with...

The best kiss I ever saw in a TWdrama (Wish to See You Again):


Well...
:)

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nikkibell84
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Post by nikkibell84 » Mar 13th, '09, 00:05

Just sticking my two cents in: I think it has a lot to do with several things. Firstly, I've noticed that (and this seems to be in all Asian dramas: Mainland, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan) a lot of the younger generation of actresses (30 and under) don't really kiss well in their dramas.


I don't think they are necessarily embarrassed, because I've seen many of these same actresses in films and they can kiss there. Truthfully, I think a lot of it has to do with censor laws: because, these young women kiss fine in movies. And, really movies have 'better' kisses than dramas.



I've also noticed that (and correct me if I'm wrong, but could it be some kind of censor law or a way for Management companies to keep the girl's image 'pure') many (or at least 97% of actresses) don't even have an on-screen kiss until they are at least seventeen, if not older.


Going back to a drama that was mentioned at the start, wasn't Horikita Maki 18 when she made Hana Kimi - I believe that was her first on-screen kiss. This thing is something I've noticed, again, throughout Asian dramas. I've even heard that there are some actresses who refuse to kiss their male co-stars. :blink



Perhaps it is a culture thing: different cultures and different opinions about kissing and what that can lead to. But, I tend to also think it has something to do with television censors, as Japanese films can have nudity and kissing scenes. Plus, I think the Management companies of these young women have something to do with it to - not letting the girls kiss on-screen until a certain age. All of that, plus pressure, nervousness, and maybe fear of backlash from online fans (you know "How dare she kiss our beloved. . . ") can make these girls seem like horrible kissers.




Then again, I do think that maybe some are just horrible kisses.

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AnimeDad
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Post by AnimeDad » Mar 13th, '09, 00:15

Maybe the actresses and actors just have good taste. I mean, YamaPi is undoubtedly very popular in Japan (and outside), but that doesn't mean every actress fancies him or would want to kiss him ;) Even as part of a drama.

Seriously though, unless you're Japanese you probably won't know the reason why they kiss like they do :)

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Post by Calevera » Mar 13th, '09, 00:52

Yeah, i've also noticed the lack of passion in J drama kissing scenes. It's almost as if kissing is just another formal greeting for them. they lean towards each other just enough for their lips to meet, hold for maybe 3 seconds, then part lips. Looks robotic.

I've gotten used to it anyway and by the time I saw the kiss in Hana Kimi I overlooked Horikita's restrained kiss performance and just enjoyed the kiss for what it meant to the story. So I managed to really, really enjoy the scene. They finally kiss - all right!!

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Post by Peggy » Mar 13th, '09, 01:45

Seems to me that maybe you have not seen the right dramas. Check out any of Takuya Kimura's dramas and you will see how romantic he can be and he does not hang back when it is time to kiss his leading lady. In fact that kiss in 'Pride' was fabulous.

The only time he was almost indifferent was in 'Engine' and I got the feeling he was not exactly into his leading lady there at all. Bad choice I thought anyway. She is an iceberg.

Kimura has calmed it down since he has been married and has a family but he can still make the girls trip and fall with a look.

In Korean dramas you might look for an old one with Lee Jun Jae and Lee Mi Sook called 'An Affair'. Nothing to complain about when they were getting it on..and off.

Peggy

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Post by Mai-Soon » Mar 13th, '09, 02:29

Well, i partly know why!

All eastern people generally and far eastern especially are shyyyyy :)

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Post by nasi_tambah1 » Mar 13th, '09, 02:50

I have no idea that kissing scene would be that 'big deal' for those who are not from Asian. :scratch:
Some of the comment, does make sense but some of it are really inconsiderate.
From where I'm being raised, we were taught, to kiss only your wife/husband or the person you love only or else they will regard you as scum (no offense).
It just a cultural differences, if you don't respect others people culture, do you expect people from other countries to respect you.
Anyway I enjoy very much watching Japanese drama, actually their differences makes me want to know more about Japanese culture and tradition. Salute to all Japanese people who still hold firmly on their belief and tradition :salut:

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Mar 13th, '09, 03:12

Well, I don't think anyone is trying to disrespect it, just curious as to why. I mean, manga and anime is very crazy in Japan, but I guess if it's not real people involved, then I guess it's ok to have weird porn stuff.

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Post by groink » Mar 13th, '09, 03:42

Last time I checked, the Japanese TV networks made dramas only for the Japanese market. Of all the examples people brought up here, none of them were written/filmed to be shown outside of the market of origin.

One other thing I don't think anyone brought up... The Japanese fans are very close to the idols they adore. Any signs of affection with their co-stars might cause the idol's popularity to go down due to jealousy. I'm serious! The Japanese are very finicky when it comes to their idols. I remember when Yamaguchi Momoe was starring with Miura Tomokazu in several TV dramas and movies - it was a turn-off to some fans (the two were eventually married, so the concern did have some teeth afterall.)

--- groink

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Post by firstriker » Apr 4th, '09, 23:02

nasi_tambah1 wrote:I have no idea that kissing scene would be that 'big deal' for those who are not from Asian. :scratch:
Some of the comment, does make sense but some of it are really inconsiderate.
From where I'm being raised, we were taught, to kiss only your wife/husband or the person you love only or else they will regard you as scum (no offense).
It just a cultural differences, if you don't respect others people culture, do you expect people from other countries to respect you.
Anyway I enjoy very much watching Japanese drama, actually their differences makes me want to know more about Japanese culture and tradition. Salute to all Japanese people who still hold firmly on their belief and tradition :salut:
good point of view..i think this is the best answer for the question

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Post by Ladymercury » Apr 5th, '09, 00:19

I think... it also depends on the drama. In Last Friends, the kiss scene ended up focusing away but it was a deep kiss with lip movement.

Good Luck!!, the final scene between Kou and Kimutaku, that kiss was also pretty passionate.

I think it just depends.

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Re: Don't Japanese actresses like to kiss?

Post by sistergirl » Apr 5th, '09, 01:28

i don't think so ..
i think korean actresses more than japanese actresses.

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totemokakkoii
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Post by totemokakkoii » Apr 5th, '09, 08:33

haha .. super interesting topic. Actually i too realised this long ago. Among all the asian entertainment, jdramas probably have the least amount of kissing scenes, and the least passionate if there is any. I remembered many times at the climax of the dramas, i will be cheering on "kiss the gal! kiss the gal! you idiot! " and end up seeing just a hug.. :glare:

yet.. this is one thing I like about jdramas, which keep me watching it after so many years. i just like the innocent and the focus place on the relationship itself. physical contact should not be the main focus in a relationship.

coming from an asian background, i really find it more comforting to watch jdramas with their more innocent and pure themes... i dun wan to be caught by my parents while watching a drama with the 2 leads deeply engrossed in a lips-to-lips fight.. :P

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Post by ika-chan » May 14th, '09, 03:25

Interesting topic!
Yea I've certainly noticed the difference, but I was never 'bothered' by it though.

[possible spoilers]

HanaKimi's kiss definately is quite --- statue-like. But I guess it gives it a 'shock' feeling and raises the special-ness of a kiss. Makes it look like a FIRST KISS. It's true - if the female responds like a really passionate kiss - makes it look like the girl is a professional kisser, have had tons of them.

I thought Hana Yori Dango's final sunset silhouette kiss was one of the best in Jdrama. Male leans in, and the Female response by leaning forward too -- lip lock. Not too much though -- just a little bit to show that she's reciprocating.

That's something special about Jdramas/asian dramas compared to Western love stories. Asian romantic dramas can be so 'innocent' - a scene of holding hands, hug can be such a 'romantic' scene. Kiss would be almost penultimate in the romantic actions. That's what I really like about it - innocent love

I then watched Sex and the City and man what a contrast!!! Bleh I must say...

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Post by Ladymercury » May 14th, '09, 03:34

You honestly can't compare Sex in the City to Hana Kimi....

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Post by bmwracer » May 14th, '09, 03:35

Japanese actresses like to kiss, but maybe not the Japanese actors they're paired with. :P :lol

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Post by ika-chan » May 14th, '09, 03:36

Ladymercury wrote:You honestly can't compare Sex in the City to Hana Kimi....
Lol - yea, I was talking about the Asian portrayal of romance compared to western. Hahaa... you are quite right!

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » May 14th, '09, 03:48

totemokakkoii wrote:haha .. super interesting topic. Actually i too realised this long ago. Among all the asian entertainment, jdramas probably have the least amount of kissing scenes, and the least passionate if there is any. I remembered many times at the climax of the dramas, i will be cheering on "kiss the gal! kiss the gal! you idiot! " and end up seeing just a hug.. :glare:

yet.. this is one thing I like about jdramas, which keep me watching it after so many years. i just like the innocent and the focus place on the relationship itself. physical contact should not be the main focus in a relationship.

coming from an asian background, i really find it more comforting to watch jdramas with their more innocent and pure themes... i dun wan to be caught by my parents while watching a drama with the 2 leads deeply engrossed in a lips-to-lips fight.. :P
Man you really made me laugh (the part in bold) Lol. When I was watching the Zettai Kareshi SP, and the kissing scene... yeah... I thought of this thread >__>..... yeah.... hahahaa..........

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Post by gamercloud » May 17th, '09, 14:03

Hana Yori Dango and Koukon kyoushi was the only drama I saw kisses.. I think actors in japan don't like to do kisses scenes.

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Post by a2a » May 17th, '09, 17:48

At first I was baffled too. The kisses in Jdramas looked so fake. Just lips touching. I thought 'Don't they know how to act a kiss?'
But after I got to know the idol culture better I understood. As it was mentioned in previous post intimacy between actors (esp young hot idols) is not tolerated. If you watch older actors kissing they do it much much better (still not quite right). That doesn't mean they kiss like that in real life.
Still, I actually grew to love this kind of innocent romance portrayal. In asian dramas I found something I didn't find in dramas in my country & american dramas. Especially in my country, in dramas, when they want to show some romance they always show explicit love scenes & ridiculous mouth-devouring kisses! In movies too. If they don't turn a movie into a porn it doesn't sell. I was so turned off by this that I stopped watching greek dramas & movies. I believe the romance in asian dramas shows better & they do just fine without passionate kisses, sex etc. Just my opinion though. Tired of watching porn on TV.

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Post by RyuNoKami » May 17th, '09, 18:05

maybe because they are a tad more conservative than say some Western nations?

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Post by garnet07 » May 18th, '09, 07:40

Well I began to prefer Jdoramas or Asian dramas in general more than American ones recently. One reason for this is mainly the way the relationship is handled. For one, they actually show the progress in the relationship and real emotions instead of American's way of showing affection .... ->> straight to bed and sex!!! I find this annoying most of the time. I mean it might show that Americans are very loose in terms of sex. Like dude, you just met a guy/girl in a bar, you think he/she is cute then suddenly you do it on the same day. What the heck!!

Also like what some people said, respect others culture and if you want to see physical affection, go back to watching American soaps, movies (most comedy movies right now are filled with that), or reality shows.

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Post by «minah» » May 18th, '09, 16:41

garnet07 wrote:Well I began to prefer Jdoramas or Asian dramas in general more than American ones recently. One reason for this is mainly the way the relationship is handled. For one, they actually show the progress in the relationship and real emotions instead of American's way of showing affection .... ->> straight to bed and sex!!! I find this annoying most of the time. I mean it might show that Americans are very loose in terms of sex. Like dude, you just met a guy/girl in a bar, you think he/she is cute then suddenly you do it on the same day. What the heck!!

Also like what some people said, respect others culture and if you want to see physical affection, go back to watching American soaps, movies (most comedy movies right now are filled with that), or reality shows.
But the thing with the American shows and guys and girls go straight to bed, I guess it's because it really happens in real life (which I think it's really gross, but it really does happen in America, and why we have so many unexpected parents and people who don't wanna take care of those kids)

But I don't think anyone is saying they don't respect the culture. Just because one person ask why and point out what they do see different in Japanese dramas and American ones doesn't mean no one respects it. I just finally realize that if its shows that are for younger audience, then they don't do much.... but yeah. Love Shuffle there was definitely a makeout scene, and people having sex on the first night... with no feelings developing. (but there's always some show that don't follow the rest) and that show was for older audience. I just personally thing that if someone is going to kiss another person, just put some umph into it, because it just comes off as if they never really wanted to kiss anyway. But yeah, like people mentioned too, it also has to do with popularity and agencies and blah blah blah.

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Post by miznagase » May 21st, '09, 18:43

i think pretty much everyone likes to kiss. it's just that they're not good at it :lol
with a few exceptions, of course :-)

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Post by kuro570 » May 21st, '09, 19:38

miznagase wrote:i think pretty much everyone likes to kiss. it's just that they're not good at it :lol
with a few exceptions, of course :-)
QFT! I actually had to get used to their craptastic kissing scenes >.<

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Post by Ladymercury » May 21st, '09, 19:46

I don't think its a culture thing at all, because you'll watch a movie and there's an intimate kiss in it. Also, some dramas do have "kiss" scenes in it, not just a simple lip on lip at a weird angle and no movement.

I think there's nothing wrong with a passionate kiss. Not all passionate kisses lead to on screen sex scenes. Running towards your lover, embracing them, and kissing them passionately is a really heightened emotional moment... So when the fated "kiss" is nothing more than lips on lips and no emotion or affection...

Then what was all the hype for? There doesn't have to be a hot make out scene but there's nothing wrong with an emotionally filled kiss.

IMO.

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Post by miznagase » May 21st, '09, 22:15

kuro570 wrote:
miznagase wrote:i think pretty much everyone likes to kiss. it's just that they're not good at it :lol
with a few exceptions, of course :-)
QFT! I actually had to get used to their craptastic kissing scenes >.<
LOL yeah i sometimes can't watch kissing scenes cuz they're so crappy :P
isn't there like a coach who can teach them??? :lol

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kinda misleading

Post by benjibabe » May 22nd, '09, 02:20

i'd have to say no sex/bad kisses in dramas would have to be more of an idol/management thing if i'd have to take a quess. People say that its the culture of USA to go straight to sex after dating and that's why they show it, but not showing it in J-dramas doesn't mean that's the culture in Japan. It drives me crazy sometimes when reading manga and such because the japanese seem to think Americans are so promiscuous, but in their story lines when the female lead reveals that after one month all they've done is kiss their friends/peers (in high school, etc.) all go "are you serious!?! I did it with my boyfriend the first date" "mine the third date" "mine after one week" and make it seem like if you haven't 'done it' that soon there's something wrong with you. And across all Japanese media types I've come across if a woman is still a virgin by 21 they MUST be the only virgin left in Japan. It seems to me that modern people don't view sex as something special, just something that you don't view in real life with real people- (perhaps thats another reason for 'passion' free j-dramas--). As a person who views sex as something you don't take lightly, I always pull my hair out to see Japanese media geared toward children telling children to have sex by 16 or you're dried up!

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Post by mokudekiru » May 26th, '09, 16:43

I just watched Kimi wa Petto, partially because of the comments on this thread, and throughout the show all of Matsujun's kisses were both passionate and believable. I don't remember in particular how he kissed in other shows like HYD, but maybe he's just a good actor for this.

I agree that most other jdrama kisses leave a lot to be desired though. With kids (high school dramas) nervousness is acceptable, but for adults the kisses usually fairly disappointing. I wonder if it has to do with most of these shows being family oriented, or at least the kind of show you can watch in the living room with everyone around.

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Post by XZ-Tence » May 26th, '09, 18:57

As far as I know most of the kisses in KimuTaku's drama's are very pattionate. especially the one in Last Vacation
That was an instant classic. I got addicted to Jdrama's all because of him and his acting.

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Post by neofire » May 26th, '09, 19:18

Totally agree with groink, it seems like the discussion so far show a great lack of understanding of the Japanese culture, or other the Asian cultures as well.

The showing of kissing and any other intimate acts are not essential to tell the story in regular drama, suggestive representation is normally enough.

Most comments seems to be trying to impose western standard onto the way things are in Japan.

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Post by BlazingSkies » May 26th, '09, 20:17

wow people plot > kissing >_>

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Post by kuro570 » May 26th, '09, 21:03

neofire wrote:Totally agree with groink, it seems like the discussion so far show a great lack of understanding of the Japanese culture, or other the Asian cultures as well.

The showing of kissing and any other intimate acts are not essential to tell the story in regular drama, suggestive representation is normally enough.

Most comments seems to be trying to impose western standard onto the way things are in Japan.
When me and my friends hang out, we who study Japanese and the Koreans get to arguing what we call Japan vs. Korea. Hell even Koreans make fun of the way Japanese kiss in dramas so its not just a "western" thing.

While yes the kissing doesn't need to be utterly passionate to the brink of sex but you cant even really call the intent of the kiss with many of the dramas. I don't know about you but when I'm dating a girl for more than 6 months I expect to get a decent kiss, not one of those crappy tap kisses that my grandmother would give me. To get a kiss like that means your not interested in the person and I don't think that's the intent of the directors with these stories. Hell Koori no Sekai had a good kiss scene, Warui Yatsura too, some few others I've watched.

You say that you don't need to show intimate acts to show something intimate is just ridiculous. Sex yes you can do without to show the love of a couple but something like a kiss or meaningful hugs come on, many dramas shown passion no excuse why so many have to half ass it, at least the adult ones. Omg who remembers Kamisama mou sukoshi dake? You see the passion you can relate to the struggles of the characters and brings you closer to understanding the want/need of each other compared to say that of ahh.. Gakkou ja oshierarenai where you just think that the actors in it are just not into each other at all but the way the dialogue is moving they try to make it seem as if they were all a perfect match or life partners but then one could say that they could feel awkward about their first kiss etc. Ok but apparently the couple wasn't too shy to go to a love hotel and have some good old sex... oh but thats ok for their kisses to suck total ballz in public I can understand but in private? oO

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Post by groink » May 26th, '09, 21:40

kuro570 wrote:You say that you don't need to show intimate acts to show something intimate is just ridiculous.
This statement alone goes against Japanese culture. Think about it... Kissing wasn't even introduced in Japan until after the Meiji restoration. And despite several generations of westernized displays of affection, I would say most Japanese don't really have it "down pat." In several articles I've read, it basically explains why, for example, Japanese women long for other Asian men. Or, why manga, anime and even mainstream pornography aren't helping the cause.

People outside of Japan do not realize that love, affection, acts of sex like kissing and intercourse, etc. in Japan is not all that necessary in civilization. It is understood in Japanese culture and even among Japanese drama fans that just simply a hug symbolizes 1st, 2nd and 3rd base. Even holding hands in public is not a part of mainstream culture. Screenwriters want to emphasize the non-sex stuff, and that is why through the years Japanese drama fans have become accustomed to the symbolisms.

If people still don't understand symbolism, it is much like a korean drama where when a cell phone rings, he pulls the battery out rather than turn the phone off. That's an example of symbolism. Even Shakespeare used symbolism in his writings. And there's tons of symbolism used in womens' novels. "Inserting his manly warrior into her love pudding..." That's symbolism at its finest! And, regarding Japanese drama actors and actresses, they really aren't trained to do kissing scenes. Does anyone here truly believe that Johnny Jimusho or Oscar Pro is teaching their people how to kiss? No.

One other thing to understand: Most people have these visions that Japan is an sex active society. It really isn't. In fact, I think it is on the bottom of all Asian societies - possibility even below India. I mean, the Japanese LOVE sex! They love porn. But, overall, sexuality is heading in the wrong direction. And I understand how people get the wrong impression that Japan is very sexual. Videos on YouTube showing 1990s game shows like nude jun-ken-po, bikini babes jumping into boiling hot water, porn stars appearing as mainstream geinojin... This is basically a smoke screen for what really goes on in real life. The population is shrinking. There are less marriages. Women are finding that sex is not neccessary. Women are even finding that men are not necessary. The men have too many things that replace women: pornography, anime and manga, the maids in Akihabara - even microwavable fake vaginas. The parents of Generation Y are far TOO understanding of their kids, and allow them to wimp out by living at home beyond their 20s and unmarried, or allow their sons to keep on being otaku (and even have the otaku believe their lifestyle is a very acceptable way of life.) And, the lack of sexuality is even allowing the worst of rumors to float about outside of Japan, such as mothers having to teach their sons how to please a woman (again, that is just a rumor. But still, you've got to wonder exactly HOW the sons actually learn sex.) I don't even believe that the Japanese understand what love really is. In past history, they were so used to arranged marriages. Even the parents of today were not in love with each other in the beginning. And, many of them still aren't really in "love" despite raising five kids (sexual intercourse/reproduction does not equate to love.)

In short, sexuality in Japan IMHO is totally shot to Hell. You people in this topic only have problems with the kissing. Trust me on this - the overall problem goes far FAR beyond just kissing.

--- groink

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Post by ssih » May 27th, '09, 12:21

If the Japanese (or actors) don't like to kiss, they really shouldn't "phone it in" in the dramas. They should do something passionate that they're comfortable with.

In the final episode of Nodame Cantable, Chiaki runs up behind Nodame and embraces her. It was very passionate without being sexual, and far more satisfying than many of the kisses that I've seen.

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Post by totemokakkoii » May 27th, '09, 15:48

ssih wrote:If the Japanese (or actors) don't like to kiss, they really shouldn't "phone it in" in the dramas. They should do something passionate that they're comfortable with.

In the final episode of Nodame Cantable, Chiaki runs up behind Nodame and embraces her. It was very passionate without being sexual, and far more satisfying than many of the kisses that I've seen.

I totally agree with ssih.

passion can be show in many different ways, and the japanese dramas have succeeded in doing so through other gestures (not kissing, nor sexual), words and eye contact.

i rather they remove the really lame kissing scene which sometime ended up spoiling the climax of a drama.

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Post by fleng » May 27th, '09, 16:15

When they are kissing it's usually their "First Kiss' moment in the drama.. so if the girl be kissing like a pro, she probably be looking like slut. So in keeping with the innocence of the character, them actresses have to kiss like a statue.

I know plenty of good japanese actresses that like to kiss tho and real good at it.

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Post by tobashinki » May 29th, '09, 13:12

Yeah..nice to watching them..haha XD

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Post by Pokioki » Jul 14th, '09, 05:02

Honestly, kissing should be enjoyable. I find that in most Asian dramas, kissing or even touching can be limited. Have you seen how uncomfortable some of the hugs look? It's like they aren't used to embracing. If you don't have the hugs down, then kissing would be a flop.

spoiler: Princess Hours

The only good, kiss scene I've seen so far would be :
the LAST kiss between Shin Chae-kyeong and Lee Shin before he leaves to be questioned and she goes "abroad". It was open mouthed. None of that lips closed against lips thing.
Even though they have done well displaying their passion with looks and gestures, I still find it lacking. Its like I can look longingly at a chocolate cake all I want, but nothing replaces sinking my teeth in it.

This "lack" of kissing and touching is obvious in Asian culture. I'm chinese and I've never seen my parents kiss or touch each other with affection.

But being born and raised in the US, I'm so accustomed to kissing and the likes of it. So I've got the best of both worlds I guess.

For me, kissing is important. I find it much more intimate than people give it credit for. Nothing melts my insides than a really good kiss.

Maybe they just need to practise more. Spin The Bottle is a good start... :P

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Post by jadejoker » Jul 14th, '09, 16:41

ssih wrote:I think that most of us want to live vicariously through the actors. I know I don't have a shot at her, and I'd like the actor to do what I'd do. In many of the episodes of Kurosagi, they'd show a close-up of Horikita Maki looking sad and tearing up. I wanted to reach into the tv, slap YamaPi and yell, "DUDE!! What is friggin' wrong with you?? Look at her! How can you not kiss her for christ sake!!"
I have to agree with that sentiment. I felt exactly the same way! When I watched Kurosagi it got to the point I was wishing Horikita wasn't even in the show. If they weren't going to do anything with her character why introduce her? Or put that much emphasis on her? She began feeling like dead weight to me. >_<

I absolutely hate the kisses in which the two leads lips are just pressed against each other "for an uncomfortable amount of time". Though the lack of passion I got used to a long time ago. I don't even notice it anymore. The way I excuse it is the different cultural views on romantic affection. They're a lot more reserved than the Americas and even other parts of Asia. This point has already been brought up by others too. I truly feel that's the biggest reason why.

I don't believe this has to do with the idol status image. That relates more to why most actors/actresses keep their personal lives very hush-hush. Or as with the Johnny Boys, nearly non-existent. But when it comes to acting in a drama... no I don't believe that's the reason. I would put my money on the differences in culture.

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Post by groink » Jul 14th, '09, 22:34

A HELPFUL REMINDER TO ALL....

Against public belief, Japanese dramas are written ONLY for the Japanese living in Japan. If they're okay with the kissing, then so be it. 'nuff said.

--- groink

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Post by mii-t » Jul 14th, '09, 22:43

While I understand the cultural aspects of this argument, it's clear that there are some actors/actresses that are clearly more comfortable with that level of intimacy on-screen than others.

Tsumabuki Satoshi and Shibaski Kou in Orange Days = pretty darn comfortable!

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Post by ssih » Jul 15th, '09, 00:00

groink wrote:Against public belief, Japanese dramas are written ONLY for the Japanese living in Japan.
Are you saying they don't base their drama decisions on what they read here in D-A?? I find that shocking.

;)

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japan girls-kiss

Post by dabogy » Jul 15th, '09, 00:16

its part of an asian culture to be conservative in some aspects, especially when it comes to affection.

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Post by prestoli » Jul 15th, '09, 00:57

I'm American and I really appreciate the subtlety of love scenes/romance in Japanese dramas. I'm no prude but US tv has gotten way out of control with what they show us - semi nude, etc. I hope the Japanese continue to do things their own way and aren't unduly influenced by the US.

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Post by muggle87 » Jul 18th, '09, 00:21

i have to say my two cents, okay i understand that they are some differences between culture and what not and also that japanese fans are quite obesses with their idols tend to turn into green monsters the minute they see any girl/boy idol close with the opposite sex. (honestly i think that is a behavior that shouldnt be encourage)

BUT the main thing that all fans should know its called acting, its work, its FAKE!!

Why cant they kiss, why must they look like two dead fish being force to kiss lord, there were dramas that would have been perfect if it wasnt for the lousy kiss or lack of passion, sometimes i get so turned off by the lack of any chemistry between main leads in a drama that i drop it. i dont need a wild west sex or full blow makeout session, but at least look like u really want to kiss, even a brush of lips can look passionate.

also dont say that oh the innocence and what not, cause i seen kisses btwn guys in their yaoi hints drama look more passionate. how mess up is that? i cant get a passionate kiss between a girl and guy but i can get one between a guy and a guy >.<?

all it makes me wonder if they ( jp fans) would prefer a their idols to be gay or something.

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Post by groink » Jul 18th, '09, 01:15

muggle87 wrote:Why cant they kiss, why must they look like two dead fish being force to kiss lord, there were dramas that would have been perfect if it wasnt for the lousy kiss or lack of passion, sometimes i get so turned off by the lack of any chemistry between main leads in a drama that i drop it. i dont need a wild west sex or full blow makeout session, but at least look like u really want to kiss, even a brush of lips can look passionate.
I'm going to repeat myself. Japanese dramas are filmed ONLY for the Japanese. What you're questioning here is whether or not the Japanese know how to kiss? Do you really think the Japanese care what foreigners think of their kissing technique? I would say that there is NO wrong way to kiss. I've watched my share of Japanese hardcore pornography, and even these people don't kiss the way westerners expect people to kiss. Again, kissing was just recently introduced to Japan. So I've accepted the fact that there are different ways of kissing. Eskimos rub their noses - are we going to tell them they're expressing passion the wrong way?

Just accept these facts:

1. There is no wrong way of kissing.
2. Japanese use symbolism to express love that is different from other cultures. it works for the Japanese. That's all that really should matter.

--- groink

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Post by Feisty_Warrior » Jul 19th, '09, 02:05

ssih wrote: I think that most of us want to live vicariously through the actors. I know I don't have a shot at her, and I'd like the actor to do what I'd do. In many of the episodes of Kurosagi, they'd show a close-up of Horikita Maki looking sad and tearing up. I wanted to reach into the tv, slap YamaPi and yell, "DUDE!! What is friggin' wrong with you?? Look at her! How can you not kiss her for christ sake!!"
I would do that too :-)
I'm American and I really appreciate the subtlety of love scenes/romance in Japanese dramas. I'm no prude but US tv has gotten way out of control with what they show us - semi nude, etc. I hope the Japanese continue to do things their own way and aren't unduly influenced by the US.
The last thing we need in this planet is uniformity. I respect countries that do things in their own unique way it makes the world more interesting.
Last edited by Feisty_Warrior on Jul 19th, '09, 02:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kakijun » Jul 19th, '09, 02:10

Get ready for a weak one with YamaPi and that one girl on Monday. (Buzzer Beat's preview)

Actually I just saw a movie called Orochi with Kimura Yoshino in it and there were some hot make out scenes in it. Maybe movies are different?

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Post by muggle87 » Jul 19th, '09, 23:04

groink wrote:
muggle87 wrote:Why cant they kiss, why must they look like two dead fish being force to kiss lord, there were dramas that would have been perfect if it wasnt for the lousy kiss or lack of passion, sometimes i get so turned off by the lack of any chemistry between main leads in a drama that i drop it. i dont need a wild west sex or full blow makeout session, but at least look like u really want to kiss, even a brush of lips can look passionate.
I'm going to repeat myself. Japanese dramas are filmed ONLY for the Japanese. What you're questioning here is whether or not the Japanese know how to kiss? Do you really think the Japanese care what foreigners think of their kissing technique? I would say that there is NO wrong way to kiss. I've watched my share of Japanese hardcore pornography, and even these people don't kiss the way westerners expect people to kiss. Again, kissing was just recently introduced to Japan. So I've accepted the fact that there are different ways of kissing. Eskimos rub their noses - are we going to tell them they're expressing passion the wrong way?

Just accept these facts:

1. There is no wrong way of kissing.
2. Japanese use symbolism to express love that is different from other cultures. it works for the Japanese. That's all that really should matter.

--- groink

Yeah u seem to neglect the rest of the things i said, u can't pick and choose which one fits ur reasoning,

1. kisses btwn guys in their yaoi hints drama look more passionate.

u neglect/ignore that part.

In end u can stick to ur reasoning, and i can stick to mine, im me, you are you.

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Post by groink » Jul 20th, '09, 00:08

muggle87 wrote:Yeah u seem to neglect the rest of the things i said, u can't pick and choose which one fits ur reasoning,

1. kisses btwn guys in their yaoi hints drama look more passionate.

u neglect/ignore that part.

In end u can stick to ur reasoning, and i can stick to mine, im me, you are you.
I don't read/understand broken English writings like this. D-Addicts is not a BlackBerry.

--- groink

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Post by muggle87 » Jul 21st, '09, 17:11

groink wrote:
muggle87 wrote:Yeah u seem to neglect the rest of the things i said, u can't pick and choose which one fits ur reasoning,

1. kisses btwn guys in their yaoi hints drama look more passionate.

u neglect/ignore that part.

In end u can stick to ur reasoning, and i can stick to mine, im me, you are you.
I don't read/understand broken English writings like this. D-Addicts is not a BlackBerry.

--- groink
Okay, I write it in your terms, u as in "you", neglected the rest of the things, (still with me?) I said, u as in "you" can't pick and choose (I'm not going to fast for you?) which one fits ur as in "your" reasoning.

1. kisses btwn as in "between" guys in their yaoi hints drama look more passionate.

u as in "you" neglect/ignore that part.

Do you understand now or do I need to translate it in a different language for you?

In the end, I got my opinion and you got yours. If you dont like what I am saying, then just scroll down.

Do you understand that or do I need to break it down for you?

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Post by xk » Jul 21st, '09, 20:58

chasen8888 wrote: Its also one of the reasons why I got turned off by jdramas to a degree, their shows had little or no passion to it. Not looking for a US type of drama mind you, but please act as if you live or exists or even feeilng something. If you want to see some form of dramas showing that there is more to life with some kissing or romance or comedy, I highly recommend that you check out kdramas and twdramas. Twdramas are usually lighthearted (in terms of story content, most of them are comedic) but there is usually some kissing in it, I'll say 8/10. With kdramas its there but not as pronounced, the focus is more on the story, but they do provide some form of passion (in terms of life to it) and show that there is more to life than just work or a dream. Even when there is no kissing in the drama, you get the sense of romance to it. There is very little/no explicit sex scenes, so they can definitely be watched. I recommend kdrama - Coffee Prince as a starter for you (kdrama), Resurrection (suspense with a bit of romance), 1% of anything (its good as well, introduced me to kdrama); Fated to love you (twdrama) these are good stuff for what you are looking for (mysoju.com has all of them and more).
lol I love this thread... well said, chasen. Yea Coffee Prince has some good kissing.. lots of kissing. That was one of my favorites. Also check out the new k-drama "Triple" where it involves a young teenage figure skater seducing her 35-year old step-brother and he ends up falling in love with her. Lots of intimate moments and kissing involved. As for Japanese dramas I have seen have almost no kissing.. their acting is sub-par and have no passion. Go watch Triple lol...

brokenparadise
Posts: 136
Joined: Sep 16th, '08, 02:30

Post by brokenparadise » Jul 22nd, '09, 04:45

Matsujun kissed Koyuki in Kimi Wa Petto and that was pretty hot. I don't think there's any other dramas with Koyuki kissing in it but that kiss with Matsumoto was pretty intimate. So did Kimutaku and Yuko Takeuchi sensual kisses in Pride. Both intimate kisses eventually... .
..lead both couples into bed later. So maybe we can only view convincing kisses if the characters will end up sleeping with each other?

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