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[Discussion] Guilty Akuma to Keiyakushita Onna

Discuss Japanese drama series here.
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Issy
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Post by Issy » Nov 23rd, '10, 10:15

«minah» wrote:Michiko (Mari's actress) is always bringing some kinda sex appeal to her characters (Bloody Monday, Hataraki Man... wow, realized her and Miho were both in this lol, Maou, even Homeroom by the Beachside... and kinda even in Nodame... well, these are all pretty much the roles I've seen her in) are somehow sexy-like and I dunno... it bothers me. Maybe that's why? I actually like how a woman her age can rock the short hair cut and look very desirable... but it's like that's always portrayed in all of her roles and either it's a coincidence or she just always do that. But it makes her characters very similar... I dunno it's hard to explain.
actually, I think this is the reason exactly on why i don't like her acting. she does always have this acting-sexy like element in most of her characters and she has been always casted in this way. not sure intentionally or unintentionally though. but it gets annoying/boring when it gets repetitive. like her Marie character. why does she still has to be over the top sexy in her line of work? i don't think Guilty is that type of dramas that needs such characters. judging from Mashima's character now, you won't think that aspect helped Marie to get together with Mashima.

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Post by eien0209 » Nov 23rd, '10, 15:13

I just saw the episode 6 ...

Warning, really big spoilers
Mashima told Meiko he is a police and there are a lot of things I actually didn't understand... my japanese is not that good...

Miwa left an envelope with a letter and a passbook for Meiko, the money in the account is what Miwa got for changing the evidences and blame Meiko... I think so...

Mizoguchi killed Miwa at the end of the episode, but Meiko got a video of Miwa and Ukita talking and also sent the picture of Ukita and Mizoguchi together to the MPD...
About the real killer of Meiko's brother in law and nephew ...
my wife told me that many japanese sites are saying that the bar tender, pet salon owner or Meiko's mother are the responsible ones...

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Post by OhSnap » Nov 23rd, '10, 15:16

«minah» wrote:Michiko (Mari's actress) is always bringing some kinda sex appeal to her characters (Bloody Monday, Hataraki Man... wow, realized her and Miho were both in this lol, Maou, even Homeroom by the Beachside... and kinda even in Nodame... well, these are all pretty much the roles I've seen her in) are somehow sexy-like and I dunno... it bothers me. Maybe that's why? I actually like how a woman her age can rock the short hair cut and look very desirable... but it's like that's always portrayed in all of her roles and either it's a coincidence or she just always do that. But it makes her characters very similar... I dunno it's hard to explain.

Y'know what weird? I think Miho looks ten years younger in this show than her previous role in Magereranai Onna where she looked like she was 40-ish. Not really important, but I kept thinking about that every time I watch Guilty. But I like how she can be very versatile in that sense.

Yay! OhSnap is part of the "I can't stand Mari" club lol! When I see Tamaki here, I still can't help to see him as a washed-up Chiaki... like, that's how Chiaki would look at 40 or 50. But it's weird, because last week I just finished re-watching Love Shuffle and I saw him as Tamaki not as Chiaki. And him in LS and Guilty... it's like two very different characters. I wouldn't even think that's the same person playing those characters. (I love actors like that. Versatility is key!! Take note of that Michiko >_> lol. I bet there's a drama of hers I need to watch that proves me wrong)
You're awesome hahaha I wish it was more grittier though. Even tho Miho Kanno's character is really dark and vengeful, I wish that she'd do something more to bring out that character in terms of surprise. Up until now, I don't think she's done anything that's too surprising. A lil bit predictable for my tastes but yeah this drama's great. As for Mari, well she always has those stick up my ass characters. Um hello Liar Game? Lol I don't really like her delivery of lines BUT I think that's what the director cast her for. That kind of dry delivery actress lol Anyhoo, hope that Miho's character and her get into some random beatdown for no reason or even Miho blackmailing her just for fun lol

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shioki
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Post by shioki » Nov 23rd, '10, 15:30

eien0209 wrote:I just saw the episode 6 ...
You mean ep7 right?

I hate Mari club, rejoice! I took a peek at some screenshots of ep7 and I saw
Mari getting attacked...the attacker looks like the crazy guy. But it seems like she's getting rape or something...

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Post by «minah» » Nov 23rd, '10, 18:40

@shioki
Well.... Even though I don't like her, I definitely don't want her to be rape. But I can definitely see why the she would get attacked though (because she's getting more involved with the past case so it makes sense.)
@eien0209
OMG!! Definitely wanna see the next episode. Had a feeling he felt bad about what he did in the past. But... really the bartender? Well, he does seem kinda just THERE... he's only the best friend of Mashima's partner so it would be a surprise for him to have a deeper role in this series. (Bartender is so hot! Def thought he was hot in Tokyo DOGS even though he was the bad guy... made him more edgy ^_^) I would never think of the pet salon owner... She would be the last person I would have thought of. And the mom... I dunno... then I think it would be VERY important to know what happened in that family prior to the murders. But I really think the true murderer has to be someone who must have so much power to influence that many people....
@OhSnap
I think Meiko's surprise for me is how she still has this timid, shy part of her even though she's behind all of this revenge. I think that's the only surprise I get from her, because I think it's very contradicting from her actions. But yeah.. I guess she could do something a bit more unpredictable. It would be cool if Meiko just... slapped Mari lol Or at least confront to her that her and Mashima are done and need to move on!

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Post by OhSnap » Nov 23rd, '10, 20:31

The real murderer is....the cake shop owner lol!

@Minah Sometimes I wish I could edit or re-write some of these scenes lol Like alternate takes of a scene. I heard from my best friend that in some HK and Taiwanese dramas, they have people vote for certain endings and they film them all to get ratings. But I hope that there are still some twists and unexpected things to come :D

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Nov 23rd, '10, 20:56

@OhSnap
That's pretty cool they can do that. But JPN dramas are like... at the max 12 episodes long while HK and TW dramas are more than that so I can see it more possible for them to have alternative endings decided by votes.

But yeah... I believe the real murderer will be the biggest twist of all.
might even be the sister herself...

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Post by shioki » Nov 24th, '10, 08:33

Thank god it isn't rape. That crazy guy only takes pleasure in killing, so I guess he won't do that.

I just watched ep7 and...Mashima and Mari starts to prove that they're police. Wow, they're finally making some process with the case.

I just hope Meiko doesn't die :( esp since she started getting involved with the police and that crazy guy.

And there's a new char, the man in blue talking to Ukita in MPD. 1 more guy to add to the possible Boss list.

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Nov 24th, '10, 13:22

I haven't watched episode 7 yet so I haven't read the latest posts here (don't like spoiling the fun)
But i was REALLY amused reading all of your opinions about Mari's character. I definitely want to Join the "I can't stand Mari" club :D she's so pissing me off, what's with the evil look in the car and the hateful-tone saying "NOGAMI MEIKO" ......WHAT??!! will she go and hire someone to kill her, or hide evidence that may prove her innocence,,,,,just what's wrong with this lady, that's exactly what they call a BAD LOSER.
regarding the sexy-like element in most of this actress's roles, I searched her on wikipedia and they say that she's a fashion model in the first place, my impression of her is so close to yours, since i remember seeing her nude on a magazine cover when i was in japan, that's why it never surprises me that she always acts this way casting that sexy aura in most of her characters. to sum it up, I hate both the actress and the character (In case there are any fans of her here, no offence please :roll )
Btw on wikipedia they say that she wasn't targeting to enter the show-biz in the first place, and that because she's been through an unrequited love experience before her debut as a model, she only wanted to get back on her ex and so she aimed to become famous. which proves (they add) her ”sore loser" personality .....proves me right huh? :P
Anyway, i'm looking forward to episode 7's release. see what will happen with the psycho guy and mari (wished he'd kill her) and will they be able to stop Ukita or not.

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Post by shioki » Nov 24th, '10, 15:00

@snow of dawn. If what you said is true, then Mari is just like her, angry over a breakup and pissed off at the new gf aka Meiko. But Mari is much stupider to bother herself with Meiko and ignore her police duties.
Wiki may not be true (that source lacks citation too)...but that made me Lol.

By the way, I think the alien mask looks rather cute, esp when they zoom in on it. With the big shiny black eye, excluding the bony face. :lol

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Post by «minah» » Nov 24th, '10, 17:41

Ok so that explains a lot about Michiko. She is very pretty (and I think model-esque) but I just hate it that it's brought to every character (well that I've seen) her play. There are tons of girls in J-drama who started off as models and turned actress (I've seen some shows with Emi Suzuki and she didn't look striking beautiful in like, Water Boys as she did in Galcir... Well, I think that just made her to be an airhead in that drama just like how Kashii Yu was before her in my opinion anyway) But yeah, if that wiki article is true... then she kinda reflects that's in her character (I guess that's why she does a good job at it too >_> lol) I just want to see her in a role that will just prove me wrong... because I'm gonna get kinda "Oh... she's in this series? Guess she's like someone's mistress or ex or something..." I can't explain, but it's not making her very versatile in her acting (since she is now mainly an actress) I know she was just in a drama that starred her, so I wonder if her character is different.

But whooo a new member! Let's hope her jealousy wears off at the end of the series... or just not so important lol. I'm also excited for the next episode. Oh! I love how everyone from the cast introduces the series. It's pretty cool. (Actually I love how Michiko says it the best >__> It's the sex appeal and she sounds cool when she says "Guilty" lol)

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Post by Issy » Nov 24th, '10, 17:48

:lol i seriously hated her everytime she she said Bloody Monday. :mrgreen:

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Post by «minah» » Nov 24th, '10, 20:32

^^ I burst out laughing when I read that lol. Yeah I got annoyed when she said that too. But I like how she says "Guilty" "Girutiiiiiiiiiii" I dunno it sounds better than just plain "guilty." I guess the Engrishyness just sounds more exotic and sexier. I can't stop saying it like that lol

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Post by shioki » Nov 25th, '10, 02:31

I prefer Dojima's guilty. Sounds more akuma-ish...like a snake or something with the hissing at the end. :mrgreen:

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Nov 29th, '10, 15:18

@shioki: yeah I also noticed that that part in Wikipedia lacked a source, but it served my point right so i referred to it, you can say i have a doujima-ish part in my character :D

I mainly hate the narration at the opening of every episode, don't know but it feels a bit old fashioned. But i liked the two kanno miho narrations (ep 1 and 6) and the difference in the tone of her voice in each. kind of reflecting the inner conflict within.
shioki wrote:I prefer Dojima's guilty. Sounds more akuma-ish...like a snake or something with the hissing at the end. :mrgreen:
I re listened to it, and you know what...it doesn't even sound like Doujima, sounds too feminine, wonder how he managed to change his voice that much.

As for Japanese sites predicting who the real criminal is,, i belive that that's just for fun, can't imagine it to be the bartender, the pet salon owner or the mother :blink . i guess it must be someone bigger, maybe someone who would benefit from keeping meiko locked up in jail for 15 years, maybe because she can become witness to some crime he had done. Most highly it would be Ukita himself, or his boss as someone mentioned.

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Post by shioki » Nov 30th, '10, 17:50

Well...basically anyone with a cameo related to the main character is a likely suspect.

Can I add the sister into the list of suspects too? She might even be alive (Meiko didn't visit her grave, did she?) :O She committed suicide, but she didn't die (maybe coma or something) and that's how Meiko obtained her necklace. But, Producer-san, please don't go down this road. Coz this thought of mine was immediately followed by another..."How lame". :lol

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Dec 1st, '10, 10:43

@shioki: ur theory makes a point, nothing yet proves her sis is dead. but it's still hard 2 imagine what would be her motives to kill both her husband and own child, besides planning it so that meiko gets blamed 4 it. you are certainly right, that would be quite lame :D

i'm looking for the next episode, seems like there will be some emotional scenes ;)

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Post by Romance » Dec 1st, '10, 13:07

EPisode 7 was awesome! Cant wait for next!
This drama is just getting better and better.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 1st, '10, 18:40

Yeah can't believe 8 is already out lol. I really wanna know how it'll end.

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Post by 6502inside » Dec 2nd, '10, 09:17

at the end of ep 8, is it just me or did Doujima appear to be somehow displeased with the outcome?

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Post by shioki » Dec 2nd, '10, 09:56

I just watched ep8 and...
I'm gonna erase the idea of "Meiko sister is the Boss" from my head. She and Meiko seems to be on pretty good term.

Ep9 looks really interesting. Mashima is gonna find out that Meiko has been planning the revenge all along. No wonder her house never appeared.

About Dojima...I'm bad at reading faces, so my only way of judging him is by his actions this ep. Since he watched the whole scene, and even followed Mashima all the way there...maybe he's worried or something. After all, Dojima did tell Meiko not to go after Mizoguchi and his refusing to provide Meiko with info on Mizoguchi might be his way of dissuading her not to go after Mizoguchi.
Image

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Post by gracefulmoonie » Dec 3rd, '10, 03:44

truly don't know who is the "boss" behind all of this...after watching ep 8...
The last part,I don't understand Japanese, but it seems as though Meiko only pushed the crazy dude into the "fire pitt" because of Mashima, she knew he wanted to kill
him. But she didn't want him to become a killer, so she did it herself.
Dojimi looks so creepy at the end.

It's such so tragic though, they can never be with each other, since he now knows that she has been planning this revenge all along.

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shioki
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Post by shioki » Dec 4th, '10, 06:22

Guilty OST is out. You can try them out here http://www.neowing.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=AICL-2227. Just click the link beside the track title. The opening song is that track 28. And track 26 is
メインテーマ(失われた季節)/Main theme, the season of parting :shocked:

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Post by fujitak » Dec 4th, '10, 12:42

track 28 ギルティ (guilty)
they don't mention the name of the artist??

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Post by «minah» » Dec 6th, '10, 04:08

Read people's comments on eppy 8
I don't see Doujima as displeased, but somehow.... hm.... More like "Wow... she actually defeated that psycho guy.... I wonder what will happen after this point," since I think he's thinking of future events because he is a reporter. Because well, looking at the previews it seems like Meiko is being accused along with Mashima and I guess if Doujima spoke up, it might prove that it was really a self-defense/accidental death (that's how it came off to me anyway. I don't think she exactly planned for him to burn himself like that, but when she was going to Mizoguchi, I don' think she considered living or dying... But trying to get rid of the man who is after Mashima... until she actually saw him in flames because well, that could have been her since she was really at a greater disadvantage) but then Doujima would have to explain why he was there and his purpose and it might be too suspicious on him.

If people noticed, Doujima isn't exactly eccentric as he makes himself out to be. After certain talks with Mashima (too many characters whose names start with M >_<and>__>

And I'm sooo mad how they had to make Meiko go out on her own late at night after she got that phone call... Oh come on... what normal person would do that!? "I got a strange phone call and I can probably guess who it's from! He has my cell number so he may even know where I'm at right now... so Let me just hurry and go on home instead of at least hiding somewhere in the building! Especially since he attacked me the first time when I was walking home alone!" But I guess the writers had to have something happen to make Mashima confront Mizoguchi. But yeah... wish they could have gone a different way with that.

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Post by noshadow31 » Dec 7th, '10, 17:20

ep8
Absolutely agree. It looks like self defense for me too.

I think Dojima cared for Meiko. He took the trouble to tell Mashima to go save Meiko.
We dont know maybe deep down Dojima might feel guilty for not exposing how Meiko was innocent but instead, let the bad guys imprisoned her for years. :(

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Post by dpedaci » Dec 8th, '10, 06:53

I'm starting to wonder if there is going to be convulated relationship reveals--for instance, I don't think they've mentioned Mieko's father--who is he? Maybe she isn't her mother's birth daughter and that's why her mother treated her badly even before the murders, as revealed in episode 8.

I think Dojima may realize that Mieko is starting to have feelings for Mashima, and that sort of emotion is going to potentially cause problems with her revenge plan

I also think this is going to end tragically, similar to A Million Stars Falling From the Sky.
[/spoiler]

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Post by «minah» » Dec 8th, '10, 14:21

dpedaci wrote:
I'm starting to wonder if there is going to be convulated relationship reveals--for instance, I don't think they've mentioned Mieko's father--who is he? Maybe she isn't her mother's birth daughter and that's why her mother treated her badly even before the murders, as revealed in episode 8.

I think Dojima may realize that Mieko is starting to have feelings for Mashima, and that sort of emotion is going to potentially cause problems with her revenge plan

I also think this is going to end tragically, similar to A Million Stars Falling From the Sky.
[/spoiler]
Yeah I never thought about her being adopted because even before episode 8 her mom didn't cry or was shocked or said "NO she didn't!!!" when she was arrested. She could be her step-mom or something. But I hate if they reveal the dad out of nowhere when he was never mentioned in the storyline until like... the final episode or something lol. But yeah like always, when someone is out seeking revenge and falls in love in the middle of it potentially ruins the plan. But I think she still wants to find out the truth behind it, that won't change. Kinda mad that Mizoguchi can just be labeled insane if they took blood tests and knew he was pumped up with drugs. So every person on crack and speed are just insane too? Think more like druggies >_> "Oh he killed someone else? Well, he's acquitted since he was just using his speed ^_^"

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Dec 9th, '10, 11:03

Episode 9
gives all the answers everyone, the show is taking on the final stages. I believe the drama will be around 11 episodes (since they didn't write "finale" or anything in the next episode commercial)
The opening narration is Doujima this time, and indeed Doujima is the star in this episode.
If there's a "Doujima Fan Club" or something like that I want to join it....can't believe I'm saying that :blink , I used to hate the guy before, but after watching episode 9 I started to admire him :clap:
Also watch out for the ending, you'll definitely LOL :lol

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Post by «minah» » Dec 11th, '10, 21:13

Watching 9 now and I was like "NOOOOO!!! NOT Kyoooootaroooo!" Well... I know that's not his name, but that's what I call him since he was Kyotaro from Anna-san no Omame or whatever it's called lol. But yeah... Not Kyotaro as part of this cover-up!! I always liked him more than his brother (his brother always playing roles that I can't stand!!! Gr!) but yeah.... now he's gonna play a role of a bad guy.

30 minutes later

Omg!!!!!!!!!! My heart tinged...
When he said I love you!!! I was like OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ending song is so perfect for this too! Yes! This is THE best episode of the series!! I wonder if I should re-download this and save it but I have no room for my hard-drive ;_; But I still wanna know why the mother and Meiko have a bad relationship. But can't wait! So excited!! And Mari... seriously? Are heels really good to wear running around and such? That was the only thing I was focused on when she arrested Ukita lol. "Why are her heels that high... and that thin? If they broke well she's screwed."

But yeah! I knew there was more to Doujima than what he appeared to be! And I'm happy they had subtle clues like that too.

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Post by Romance » Dec 12th, '10, 13:32

Gotta agree, ep 9 was definately one of the best eps sofar.
I've said it before but man, this series is good...

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Post by antspace » Dec 12th, '10, 14:44

This ep restored my faith in this messy series.

I was glad to see that the actor playing Doujima could actually act like a normal person. I really hated the overacting he did before! Not as much as I hated the Mizoguchi character though. But he was killed off last ep, so no complaints there :mrgreen:
I'm pleasantly surprised that this ep was almost without plotholes or overacting. Tamaki Hiroshi san should get a price as most tormented person in J-Dorama though :P
I'm looking forward to the resolution. A happy end with Nogami Meiko and Mashima would be a pleasant surprise. I'm rooting for them :alcoholic:

Thanks for the Kyooootaro!!! by the way. Anna-san no omame was one very funny series, made no sense at all :lol

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Post by goygakgoy » Dec 12th, '10, 17:24

Kanna Miho just make great dramas and this is one of her best. EP 9 was really awesome, epecially with the ending before and after the ending theme. Her character is just so lovable. Just felt hate for her at the beginning because she so evil but then as the story progress, ya feel compassionate.

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Post by OhSnap » Dec 16th, '10, 15:14

My Japanese friend told me this is only 11 episodes for this series :/

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Post by emma-ba » Dec 16th, '10, 17:49

Wow! After ep 9 I'm starting to feel like Doujima is the real hero behind this series. He's been working away in the background whilst Mashima has been slowly falling apart.

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Post by Romance » Dec 19th, '10, 10:25

Subs for ep 10 is out. What did you guys think about the ep? ^^

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Post by emma-ba » Dec 19th, '10, 10:46

Everything is speeding up now towards the end which is nice
I was really worried when Ukita was alone with Meiko. Face to face confrontations are definitely her weak point. Thank god Mashima sent Mari back.

I think though that when Meiko and Mari went to meet Ukita in the car park, that they should have thought things through a bit better. Couldn't Mari have got police watching the roads into the car park and then they could have trapped him in and arrested him?

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Post by avieamber » Dec 19th, '10, 12:53

emma-ba wrote:Everything is speeding up now towards the end which is nice
I was really worried when Ukita was alone with Meiko. Face to face confrontations are definitely her weak point. Thank god Mashima sent Mari back.

I think though that when Meiko and Mari went to meet Ukita in the car park, that they should have thought things through a bit better. Couldn't Mari have got police watching the roads into the car park and then they could have trapped him in and arrested him?
yeah, true. There were quite a few huge chances for the police to arrest him. Another one was when he went back to the station itself. If he was a suspect and well-known by the police officers, I couldn't believe how he could've just strolled past all those officers who obviously 'bowed' to him there. A bit ridiculous. :scratch:

The last episode looks promising though. And the previous epi, I felt kinda shocked to see Doujima committed suicide. I thought he'd have lived since Mari and the police team came to get Ukita anyway. But I guess it was his atonement towards Meiko. Still, it feels kinda empty now without him around. I'm really curious how this drama will end though. The spoiler preview looks interesting.

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Post by antspace » Dec 19th, '10, 16:01

What the hell! Is Mari made of steel or something? In this ep she get's shot and whacked in the head a couple of times with a gun. :pale:
Actually, what kind of security do they have in this police office. Ukita comes walking in and is being greeted as the inspector he used to be. Nogami Meiko can mostly do what she likes in there... And walks right out in the end. And then the dog salon, why not tell the police immediately that they were targeted. Although you could argue that she was using that to get to the parking lot. Still it seems out of character since she was so grateful to them.
And Ukita, he had like a hundred chances to shoot her and walk back out. But noooo... he has to do a speech first... this drives me insane! :goggle: Kanno Miho is a great actor, but I think she should be more careful which roles she picks. Although Magerenai Onna, Kiina and Hataraki man were some pretty decent ones, this one and for example Tomorrow are full of plotholes. Grrr... Argh! :P

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Post by «minah» » Dec 20th, '10, 04:12

The only thing I could say about episode 9...

WHY DIDN'T SHE EMAIL THE TRANSCRIPT OR POST IT ONLINE SOMEWHERE!? That would make the drama end too early and easy and that would be the most logical thing to do.... but nope. Shed could have mentioned the politician's name during her live discussion with Ukita before he died but that's too easy and not suspecetful... I just hate when logical things aren't always done in dramas! >_< But that's what makes it a drama so yeah.... This episodes clenched my chest so much... omg so suspenseful.... just didn't know how Ukita was gonna die. Now how will it all end.... this is my favorite drama this yeah ^_^ Beats Bloody Monday 2 I think... ^_^ And I have to say, Mari is a bit likeable... because I dunno, she didn't misunderstood the whole situation of Meiko and I dunno... learned about her past and made a judgment about her. That's the problem with dramas and people.... we judge others because we're jealous but we don't even know half the story of that person and what they've gone through. So Mari had no reason to be like that... but it IS a show so they had toooo. Can't wait till the finale.
@above poster...
Well, they have to have illogical stuff because it wouldn't be suspenseful as a show lol. But I know how you feel.. it's like watching a horror movie and wonder why the character do half the stupid things they do lol. But it does suck when they don't have characters do the logical thing

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Post by noshadow31 » Dec 20th, '10, 05:05

couldn't agree more
Yes it is ridiculous how the villains want the handy drive to be handed over. like they don't know anything about computers. painful to see such plot hole in modern dramas.

but the bit about Meiko not saying the real villain name is understandable. she just doesn't trust police and laws. letting it out doesn't guarantee those guys will be punished. she has to finish the matter with her own hands.

same reason can be used about the pet salon. she doesn't want the police involved in protecting them. because she doesn't want to risk getting arrested. she has to get her revenge first.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 20th, '10, 05:41

@noshadow Yeah I guess that's true..... I didn't see it from that point so it is understandable... But yeah....
She could have emailed that story............. When people take "their time" and plotting revenge.... sometimes, it may not go exactly as planned. Like how bad guys want to see the victim "suffer and die nice and slow..." and something happens and the bad guy gets killed. Well, if they just rid of that person then there ya go... bad guy wouldn't have died first lol

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 20th, '10, 10:02

I agree with the above comments.... :pale:

This drama made police stations/policemen look SO stupid! :glare:

Guilty won't be one of my fav. dramas of this year, because simply the last few episodes were disappointing! Anyway, let's wait for the final episode.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 20th, '10, 15:14

^Well see, I think lots of dramas do that so I don't get my expectations too high. I have to keep in mind, if certain things don't happen in a drama/movie then the movie/show would end shorter and it won't build the suspense... It's like all people and situations are stupid when shown on the screen honestly. Relationships and misunderstandings lol. But I still like the show because of the acting and how the story went during the last few episodes. Bloody Monday did some stuff that could have been avoidable (like why leave the little sister alone ALL the time? She's worse than Mokuba from YuGiOH. Why even let the two siblings roam around freely?) But yeah... lol and they're not even cops. They're suppose to be better than the police but obviously not if some kid was able to hack in their system... well, 2 of them

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 20th, '10, 20:57

^Yeah I see your point dear ^^. Bloody Monday 2 was a HUGE fail, so bad I was so in love with season 1. Anyway, it's true our expectations must not be that high.. but while you're enjoying a drama & you see that there are many good success points in it as you mentioned the cast & the potential plot.. you usually start expecting normal stupid holes here & there, but when they start adding abnormal happenings.. you just feel that they are not respecting us as viewers.. just add fantasy or horror in the Genre & I would be totally fine.. but for a Mystery drama I really hoped for a more proper episodes in the second half! ^^ that's only because I loved the drama & I do care about it! :mrgreen:

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Post by «minah» » Dec 20th, '10, 22:04

Yeah that's true. Actually, the perfect drama that I don't think had any plot holes or anything was Shinzanmono. Excellent in every way ^_^Maybe because it was by Higashino Keigo.

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 20th, '10, 22:33

«minah» wrote:Yeah that's true. Actually, the perfect drama that I don't think had any plot holes or anything was Shinzanmono. Excellent in every way ^_^Maybe because it was by Higashino Keigo.
EXACTLY! Shinzanmono is the prefect example! Can't wait for the SP!

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Post by gracefulmoonie » Dec 22nd, '10, 02:52

Just watched the Finale...and some people who predicted the ending was

RIGHT!!!!

it all went down like this...

-Politician's son poison father (he died)
-Meiko and son had a showdown, he died too
-Pet salon owner confessed something to Meiko, and said she was sorry...
-Meiko's mother finally knew the truth
-Meiko killed herself by drinking poison...she dies
-Mashima comes and FINALLY KISSES HER....sooooooooooooo tragic!!!

Need the subs now!!! Just kidding...
Overall, this drama was exciting!!!!

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Post by avieamber » Dec 22nd, '10, 03:48

gracefulmoonie wrote:Just watched the Finale...and some people who predicted the ending was

RIGHT!!!!

it all went down like this...

-Politician's son poison father (he died)
-Meiko and son had a showdown, he died too
-Pet salon owner confessed something to Meiko, and said she was sorry...
-Meiko's mother finally knew the truth
-Meiko killed herself by drinking poison...she dies
-Mashima comes and FINALLY KISSES HER....sooooooooooooo tragic!!!

Need the subs now!!! Just kidding...
Overall, this drama was exciting!!!!
I shouldn't have read that :crazy:

That was something unexpected. I totally didn't see that coming.

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Post by gnryushi » Dec 22nd, '10, 05:14

avieamber wrote:
gracefulmoonie wrote:Just watched the Finale...and some people who predicted the ending was

RIGHT!!!!

it all went down like this...

-Politician's son poison father (he died)
-Meiko and son had a showdown, he died too
-Pet salon owner confessed something to Meiko, and said she was sorry...
-Meiko's mother finally knew the truth
-Meiko killed herself by drinking poison...she dies
-Mashima comes and FINALLY KISSES HER....sooooooooooooo tragic!!!

Need the subs now!!! Just kidding...
Overall, this drama was exciting!!!!
I shouldn't have read that :crazy:

That was something unexpected. I totally didn't see that coming.
I should've waited too.

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Post by «minah» » Dec 22nd, '10, 23:45

Well, i wasn't expecting a happy ending. (reading from gracefulmoonie's comment... didn't see it yet) I knew she was gonna die in the end, and probably at least a kiss from her.v These kinda shows don't end without the main person getting revenge dying. (In Maou both leads died... I didn't expect both though, but at least one of them) But what I didn't expect is why the pet salon lady would say sorry. (does it bother anyone else that the pet salon lady wears a fur collar top..... well, I mean I hope it's fake because it's quite ironic lol. I just noticed it the previous episode that she had it on and was like 'oh... well.. I hope it's fake') So I wonder what it is.... and I really want to know the whole story behind the cake incident. How was it crafted by him and why exactly he did it (oh Kyotarooou ._.)
I just love spoilers... makes me wanna watch even mooore lol!

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Post by noshadow31 » Dec 23rd, '10, 08:05

The last episode is
very satisfactory. how all the bad guys died :D :D

I must sound like a maniac but I was afraid Meiko wouldn't be able to finish them all.

Meiko also died. That gives the series a proper sense of closure. She did kill many people after all. Putting her in prison for another ten years would be even sadder than death.

The pet salon owner happens to be the true instigator. She's an abandoned child of Misawa family and to get revenge, she told the heir to commit a crime to prove/measure his own power (as opposed to his father's power).

That's why she's always felt guilty and treated Meiko exceptionally well.

The series try to teach us not to take revenge because it would only bring about a series of unfortunate events. (Pet salon owner's revenge causes Meiko grief and Meiko's revenges, in the same fashion, cause innumerable people grieves. )

Is it just me or the last scene's kiss awkward? :P

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Post by 6502inside » Dec 23rd, '10, 09:32

Although Magerenai Onna, Kiina and Hataraki man were some pretty decent ones, this one and for example Tomorrow are full of plotholes.
Well, I would say that before you can have plotholes, you need to have a plot... I preferred Tomorrow and especially this one, over the other three series that you mentioned. Just my 2 yen...
Is it just me or the last scene's kiss awkward?
Yeah it kind of is... He was looking at her with an expression of grief on his face, and then it changed suddenly. Like he was thinking "Meiko no... why did you have to do it... oh well now`s my chance!"

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Post by liontaro » Dec 23rd, '10, 09:41

Karasawa Toshiaki is in rare form in this one. It is a must see!

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Post by «minah» » Dec 23rd, '10, 17:01

6502inside wrote:
Yeah it kind of is... He was looking at her with an expression of grief on his face, and then it changed suddenly. Like he was thinking "Meiko no... why did you have to do it... oh well now`s my chance!"
LOL!!!!!! That cracked me up! Thank you for more spoilers noshadooow!

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Post by antspace » Dec 23rd, '10, 22:50

Quote:
Although Magerenai Onna, Kiina and Hataraki man were some pretty decent ones, this one and for example Tomorrow are full of plotholes.

Well, I would say that before you can have plotholes, you need to have a plot... I preferred Tomorrow and especially this one, over the other three series that you mentioned. Just my 2 yen...
Nope! No plot, no plotholes... :P

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Post by akamaya » Dec 23rd, '10, 23:29

I swear I was waiting for him to die from kissing her, to the last second of the episode! He even had a sudden movement, like falling... I thought that was his very intention - otherwise why would someone kiss her soooooooooooo long, knowing she was dying from poison??

But no, at a second thought, I think we'll have for sure a sequel. Either he sucked her soul in himself and she'll continue her revenge through him - or she'll be revived from his 'first aid'... :goggle:

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Post by gracefulmoonie » Dec 24th, '10, 06:14

«minah» wrote:
6502inside wrote:
Yeah it kind of is... He was looking at her with an expression of grief on his face, and then it changed suddenly. Like he was thinking "Meiko no... why did you have to do it... oh well now`s my chance!"
LOL!!!!!! That cracked me up! Thank you for more spoilers noshadooow!
I second that. I thought that they
...
should have kissed in episode 9 in her apartment, but now that I think about it, it does make sense for this to happen now, b/c all the while,
Meiko has been trying to keep her feelings hidden. So glad that it still happened.
The one thing that really bothered me was Tamaki Hiroshi's HAIR.... it was all over the place...during all the intense scenes, I just couldn't stop looking at his hair.

I really like Kanno Miho in Tomorrow (although I still think that we were "robbed" in the romance department, she had great chemistry with Takenouchi Yutaka).

I watched Kiina too, but the cases were a bit easy to solve, not like Shinzanmono.

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Post by gnryushi » Dec 24th, '10, 10:07

noshadow31 wrote:The last episode is
very satisfactory. how all the bad guys died :D :D

I must sound like a maniac but I was afraid Meiko wouldn't be able to finish them all.

Meiko also died. That gives the series a proper sense of closure. She did kill many people after all. Putting her in prison for another ten years would be even sadder than death.

The pet salon owner happens to be the true instigator. She's an abandoned child of Misawa family and to get revenge, she told the heir to commit a crime to prove/measure his own power (as opposed to his father's power).

That's why she's always felt guilty and treated Meiko exceptionally well.

The series try to teach us not to take revenge because it would only bring about a series of unfortunate events. (Pet salon owner's revenge causes Meiko grief and Meiko's revenges, in the same fashion, cause innumerable people grieves. )

Is it just me or the last scene's kiss awkward? :P
The production budget was kinda low but the script and writing were excellent, imo. I think the last kiss scene was a frozen moment in time. The only thing that I wasn't sure about was why Mashima slumped over a bit while holding Meiko and kissing her simultaneously.

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Post by ollie125 » Dec 24th, '10, 10:25

That is because
he comitted suicide, her lips had poison on them. Personally, I was not really happy with him dying. This series was great but the ending was kind of a disappointment after such a good plot. The ending to my sense felt empty with no moral. What was the moral in the story?

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Post by «minah» » Dec 25th, '10, 03:49

I felt it had a moral: Nothing good comes from revenge... and the worth of a person, how important is it? And what value it holds? This series had so many characters that had guilt in them, or a reason they should be guilty (and with many characters are many perspectives of that.) But they can only be guilty if they themselves think they are. I think the series showed many themes and such, but I think it's up to us to interpret the theme and moral.
Yeah... I kinda felt like he didn't need to die. (well, that's if he REALLY died so I'm gonna assume that he did because I think so too) But with his type of character, I asked myself "Does he have anything else to truly look forward to?" Because he already carried that guilt of his junior dying as he felt responsible for it. So in the beginning of the series, he already didn't have a optimistic view of life. Then Meiko came... and after all of that with her, she dies. I mean, he finally had something, as he felt, to live for and she dies.... so it's like, what does he do now? He would probably shoulder more guilt and pain because of the death of 2 (well, 3 since Miwa died too) people who died before him. He was even willing to be with her even if she was locked away... because she would still be alive but I guess now it's like, "Now what?" So I can see why he was killed at the end. It's not something I think would be out of character or something.

I think despite to plot holes (like what really made everyone think she didn't backup the data previously and blah blah) the message and acting in this series was good. I wish Mikami Kensei's character had more significance because well, he is on the promo picture, but his role wasn't exactly that important. I think his role was as equal as the pet salon owner. So I did wish he was more significant. Oh, I didn't like how it was the pet salon lady that was "behind" it. I think that wasn't needed because it seemed outta nowhere. But I guess it's to show that revenge leads to more revenge and how the original revenge can involve so many people and spawn off so much... and how selfish it can be too. But still really liked it! ^_^
The songs used for it are perfect too. JUJU's song was perfect for this ending. Comparing this to Maou (as it deals with a guy and revenge and selling his soul to the devil and who has a gentle side and evil side) I think this explored the theme in a different way than Maou and can stand on its own without it being a Maou-copy cat. So I'm happy for that ^_^

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Post by ollie125 » Dec 25th, '10, 10:39

Yeah...... I do understand your point now. I thought this drama was really good; I have watched ALOT of dramas over the years, but this one really stood out for me. Thing is, as someone mentioned before, everything that I expected to happen, HAPPENED in the last episode. Up until now, the writers kept the audience, as well as the actors, guessing. I remember in one interview, Tamaki Hiroshi mentioned that he really had no idea how it was going to end; the show aired while they were still filming, say, the 3rd episode. I am not saying it was a bad ending but I just wished that they would have made a more unexpected scenario. My friend was saying that they should have stopped at the
scene where Meiko tries to kill herself but is prevented by Mashima. She said there would have been a better ending, Mashima waiting for Meiko. But hey? Really in the end I thought this was an amazing drama which I'll probs watch again. Now I'm just sad it ended.... Looking forward to more exiting dramas in 2011 though!

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Dec 25th, '10, 23:24

MisS Lonliah wrote:you usually start expecting normal stupid holes here & there, but when they start adding abnormal happenings.. you just feel that they are not respecting us as viewers.. just add fantasy or horror in the Genre & I would be totally fine.. but for a Mystery drama I really hoped for a more proper episodes in the second half! ^^ that's only because I loved the drama & I do care about it! :mrgreen:
Totally Agree....toooooo many unbelievably stupid parts in the last few episodes, that I got the feeling they wrote the script and plot of the final episodes in a haste, or they thought viewers wouldn't mind one or two silly plot holes .
ollie125 wrote:That is because
he comitted suicide, her lips had poison on them. Personally, I was not really happy with him dying. This series was great but the ending was kind of a disappointment after such a good plot. The ending to my sense felt empty with no moral. What was the moral in the story?
EXACTLY .....
.WHAT'S WITH THE ROMEO AND JULIETTE ENDING!!! :blink
To be honest most of the time i was watching this drama while spending time making fun of the plot and laughing, but i particularly definitely DON'T like the ending :-(
I didn't like how it was the pet salon lady that was "behind" it. I think that wasn't needed because it seemed outta nowhere.
Agree here as well, to me it only felt like the script writer wanted to prove that you only get misery out of taking revenge, and for Meiko to get such a big shock in someone she trusted so much....is indeed pure misery :cry:
If there was any moral in this drama, it might have reached someone,....some morals were too obvious they definitely reached everyone, but some were simply destroyed by the ending,,,,she died because she had no reason to live, she didn't believe she deserved to live go to prison and then get out and live happily with Mashima, so she committed suicide...i can see all that. but also she loved him and even said in the voice message she had left Enomoto that she wished him to return to his normal life, so don't u feel him committing suicide by kissing her, was not something she wished for, would rather make her regret meeting him. :glare:
There were a few things I liked about this drama (making me laugh a lot is one of them :D) but unfortunately adding to the many unlikable unswallow-able events and plot holes, the ending destroyed it for me :glare:
Last edited by snow_of_dawn on Dec 25th, '10, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Dec 25th, '10, 23:39

akamaya wrote:
But no, at a second thought, I think we'll have for sure a sequel. Either he sucked her soul in himself and she'll continue her revenge through him - or she'll be revived from his 'first aid'... :goggle:
That made me laugh sooo hard my stomach hurts :lol

I noticed something else while watching,
How come he found her so fast after she disappeared from the hospital or institution or whatever they call it?? even if we assume that that park is right beside the institution, and if we Presumably assume he somehow knows about it's significance,,,,some great deducting skills he must have had to guess she went there to die :glare:

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Post by blackskies » Dec 26th, '10, 08:36

snow_of_dawn wrote:
Totally Agree....toooooo many unbelievably stupid parts in the last few episodes, that I got the feeling they wrote the script and plot of the final episodes in a haste, or they thought viewers wouldn't mind one or two silly plot holes .
ollie125 wrote:That is because
he comitted suicide, her lips had poison on them. Personally, I was not really happy with him dying. This series was great but the ending was kind of a disappointment after such a good plot. The ending to my sense felt empty with no moral. What was the moral in the story?
EXACTLY .....
.WHAT'S WITH THE ROMEO AND JULIETTE ENDING!!! :blink
Totally agree. This seems to happen with dramas, I think - the premise sounds really good, and really interesting, with great casting, and the ending ends up being (sort of) a disappointment for some.

But the worst thing, I think...
about the prospect of him dying, though, is that he just yelled at her 5 minutes before about how life is important to live even if those close to you have died, or you've been dealt the wrong hand. He didn't kill himself after his colleague died, even if it messed him up; does the Romeo and Juliet type ending try to say that their 'true love' is the exception? His death would leave his character without any need to resolve his feelings.

I do understand that his life would suck pretty bad after her death, but still. That's not the kind of thing he believed in until the end of the episode - at least, I thought so. But then, Meiko kinda changed his whole world XD... for better or worse, I dunno.
I still liked the drama - it was really good at keeping me interested all the way through, despite the fact that the last two episodes were kinda haphazard.

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Post by caramelchampagne » Dec 26th, '10, 12:13

well for me the series was good but they ruined every thing in the end it was too much dramatic coz she was also a victim ya the plot got holes but we have to admit we get hooked by the series i didn't expect them to die as i think too both of them died i got that feeling from her final words

and ya most of revenge drama the main actors dies it's like IF U SEEK A REVENGE DIG 2 GRAVES ONE FOR UR ENEMY AND THE OTHER FOR YOU

i hated tamaki hair style very messy and if u look at the plot u will find that her pet salon owner that she was the one who started every thing it is too much lame

oh by the way i watched korean series called bad guy and also it ended like that :s

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Post by antspace » Dec 26th, '10, 18:50

Actually, I kinda liked the ending.
Especially how Kyoutarou ended up in the pit :lol The romeo and julliete thing was somehow in character.

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Post by 6502inside » Dec 26th, '10, 23:07

I hadn`t considered at first, that by kissing Meiko at the end, Mashima may have exposed himself to the poison and ended his life also. But after watching it again, I think you guys are right.

Poor Mashima, always seemed to be a step behind what was happening, and failed to stop Meiko from carrying out her plans. Why didn`t he expose the dirt that he had on Misawa? Then perhaps, Meiko wouldn`t have been able to use Doujima`s flash drive as bait for her trap. Once the info was out there, it would have lost value as a bargaining chip. Am I right? Still, plotholes don`t bother me that much (I watch Burn Notice, for instance...)
BTW, Kanno-san was involved in a lot of action/fights in this series, which is something I don`t recall her doing before in anything that I watched.

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 27th, '10, 14:58

ollie125 wrote:
This series was great but the ending was kind of a disappointment after such a good plot.
I totally agree.. I know it's lame to say this because I personally loved the first half of this drama very much... BUT
the ending was a JOKE!
I mean all the things that happened would be fine, only IF the writers had chosen another way of doing it! :glare:

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Post by Issy » Dec 27th, '10, 15:06

I knew it must be a reason why i had no much interest in continuing with this drama after ep6 or 7. :roll
:mrgreen:

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 27th, '10, 15:06

snow_of_dawn wrote:
I noticed something else while watching,
How come he found her so fast after she disappeared from the hospital or institution or whatever they call it?? even if we assume that that park is right beside the institution, and if we Presumably assume he somehow knows about it's significance,,,,some great deducting skills he must have had to guess she went there to die :glare:
Exactly! :pale:

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Post by shioki » Dec 27th, '10, 15:07

The drama went well, other than a few plotholes, but the ending was
disappointing. I was waiting for Meiko to be killed the whole time, and Mashima to continue as a detective, but no, they didn't. Meiko and Mashima HAD to pull off a Remeo and Juliet play, and turn that place into a haunted spot. The fight scene btw Meiko and Jun too. Meiko magically avoided the bullets, and also managed to stay alive for so long after taking the same pill the guy in ep1 took.

Too bad Mashima had to die too. That must be the first time he combed his hair throughout the whole series.

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 27th, '10, 15:14

shioki wrote:
That must be the first time he combed his hair throughout the whole series.
OMG! I haven't even noticed that big difference! *was too disappointed* :mrgreen:

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Post by shioki » Dec 27th, '10, 15:31

MisS Lonliah wrote:
shioki wrote:
That must be the first time he combed his hair throughout the whole series.
OMG! I haven't even noticed that big difference! *was too disappointed* :mrgreen:
HAHA. I only notice how un-lion his hair became, and HAD to replay that scene a few times before realizing....oh, it's combed!

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Post by ahireasu » Dec 27th, '10, 16:48

shioki wrote:The drama went well, other than a few plotholes, but the ending was
disappointing. I was waiting for Meiko to be killed the whole time, and Mashima to continue as a detective, but no, they didn't. Meiko and Mashima HAD to pull off a Remeo and Juliet play, and turn that place into a haunted spot. The fight scene btw Meiko and Jun too. Meiko magically avoided the bullets, and also managed to stay alive for so long after taking the same pill the guy in ep1 took.

Too bad Mashima had to die too. That must be the first time he combed his hair throughout the whole series.
What do you mean she managed to stay alive for so long after taking the same pill as the guy in the first episode?
If she took a pill to kill her self then its impossible for Mashima to die by kissing her since there shouldn't be a trace of poison in her lips or mouth in total.
The only "reasonable" way is it was powder in the keychain but then again there was no trace of any in her lips, in any case even if there was, the quantity shouldn't be enough to kill him.
On another note to defend a bit the ending :P , we have a person here "Mashima" that after the death of his partner and friend he feels responsible and drowns in alchohol bringing himself on the verge of self destruction , he meets Meiko that he feels he needs to protect ,falls for her and even after he knows she took the life's of people for revenge he continues to try to protect her and cover for her,

By knowing Meiko as in the last episode the barman say to Mashima is back to normal as a person/detective , this is how much Meiko affected Mashima, he arrested Meiko and said all those things to her because he needed her maybe even more than she needed him, he needed Meiko living so he could live as well.
When she found Meiko almost dead i guess he lost the world under his feet and stoped thinking rational so this is how we have Mashima kissing her and by that killing himself as well.(i am not trying to justify the ending btw)
And this is the biggest plot hole for me, where in the hell did he found the amount of poison in her lips to kill him? + we see Meiko having her bag with her after he takes her to her mother, before that Meiko didn't have her bag with her........

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