Il Ji Mae (SBS, 2008)

[.Silent.]

I think those weren't darts but some kind of little spheres...

[Silentwolfdog]

Ah, that's good to know. ^^ I can't remember him using spheres before so I guess I mistook it as darts because that's the only thing I saw him throw out of his hands quite often.


Silent, what other drama have you saw that's similar to this one and have a happy ending? I wanna watch something like this one without feeling sick to stomach because of the ending.

Also, cute sign you have there. I like see his smiling face. Actually Iljimae was my first drama with that actor, lol and I was impressed with his acting even though I didn't know who he was.

[.Silent.]

I re watched this scene few times and I'm sure that he throw spheres

Well.. I didn't mean historical drama but a drama with similar plot
And precisely it's Time between dog and wolf. The story is quite the same. Main character looks for revenge after his mother who's been killed, and even is in love with killers daughter. (hehe, well Eun Chae's father wasn't a killer himself but he wasn't a pure person in this case so just say this example is similar:lol )
But as for me ending is better coz end don't leave so many unanswered questions.

Because people compared Iljimae to Hong Gil Dong I think I will watch it soon

Yeah, I love his smile And if you haven't watch Junki in another drama yet I strongly recommend Time... It's just "must see" one

[Silentwolfdog]

Heh. I thought Time Between Wolf and Dog was one of those depressing series with a sad ending, like A Love to Kill or something. So it doesn't have a sad ending?

I can't tell which one bother me far more, unanswered questions or sad ending. Hmm...although Iljimae's ending seem pretty clear, that is he's still alive and so are other people.

Hong Gil Dong was the first historical drama and it was almost the reason why I was going to refuse watching Iljimae, lol. Can't believe I was about to miss one of greatest drama.

But Hong Gil Dong was a good drama, that even I got to say. I do enjoy the mixed genre drama.

Oh, also is that where your avatar come from?

[.Silent.]

Well... Time between dog and wolf is quite sad coz main character sacrificed everything what he loved for revenge but when you watch it you don't have enough time to think about it coz the action is so fast there! So much suspense all the time. And there is also a love triangle. It has also some happy moments. All in one
If you will await ending like "and they live happily ever after..." you won't see that one. Well not precisely.. But is far more optimistic than that from Iljimae. Really. And you don't need to think "and what about this or that" coz they explain all in last ep. Ther is even a moment when I was shocked and I started to laugh. I was like "what? no way... how?, when? " and it's all about one baby
But I won't say anything more. Just watch it

I haven't seen A love to kill yet. My sister did and said is good but sad. Will think about it

As for me both - unanswered questions and sad endings. When it's much of one of these or even both at the end it's just make me regret that I watched that drama.

For me it was also clear that he survived. But I just couldn't resist from questions like "and what about his mother? will they meet? and bong soon? will they be together in the end or what?" and more and more...

[Silentwolfdog]

Ok, I will give that series a chance. That does sound a bit like Iljimae because it's also sad when you think of what the character had to go through. Watching those closest to him dies in front of his eye or for his sake in the series.

Interesting, I haven't thought about those questions. I am just happy that he's alive that I forgot that there's still another issues that needed answers. Oh well, I guess what's important is different for every fan. Who's alive is clearly on the top of my list. ^^ Who'd want to see a handsome guy dies in front of your eyes?

[.Silent.]

Well as far as I know he dies in one of his movies. And that's why I haven't watched it yet.
It's called May 18 or so...

I always have a lot of questions after I watch something. No,not always. I BECAME like that after I started to watch asian cinema where you must look for deeper meaning in characters actions and dialogues to understand things better.

[Silentwolfdog]

Ok, that's good. I am going to watch one of his movie and that wasn't the name of the movie so far.

Whew...Although that means I have already figured out the end because one of his movie was about whether he will live or not.

True...especially in the movies. Drama don't do that much to me though. Maybe because I usually watch simple Asian drama most of the time.

[.Silent.]

I must say that I loved Fly Daddy Fly. Nice story with happy ending And there Lee Moon Shik plays with Junki. And he has all teeth there

And May 18 is also called "Hwaryeohan hyuga" "Splendid Holiday" or "Remember U 518"

Hehe... So we are in the same situation coz I haven't watch this movie yet. I heard that he died
I'm dl it at the moment so will find it soon

[4everU]

I just wanted to say that iljimae did not kill anyone, he could have...but killing is not as easy as just saying. You can hurt people without killing them, and that is what iljimae did, also remember his sword has no edge therefore, he can't kill anyone because they can't get cut with it. In reality just killing easily and not thinking much about it is not that simple, especially if u are trying to do good. I understand no one can be pure good..no one is, however there are people who will never kill, no matter what! I LOVE ILJIMAE

[.Silent.]

Yeah, he was just a good person.
He never though that he would kill person who killed his father. He only wanted his apologize.
And that was so... hmm... pure about him.

[4everU]

Yup u are right Silent!

[Silentwolfdog]

Yeah, that's why the scene about him throwing the objects confused me a bit. But I got it.

Sword without a edge can still kill, I think his master said something about this in one of ep where he trained Iljimae. That's only if Iljimae chose to, and he never did. So that's impressive. My view is pretty much like his, I don't believe in killing people even though they are a killer to start with ya know like death penalty or whatever. Not many people are like that, so that's why I enjoyed this show.

Silent, just let me know if that movie you are planning to watch is truly worth watching, lol. Maybe need a box of tissues just in case? Heh.
I am going to check Fly Daddy Fly as well. Thank you for bring it up. ^^

[.Silent.]

People can kill each other even with a spoon so why not with a sword ^^
For me he didn't want to kill coz he knew that if he do that he will become just one of the people he despise.

Silentwolfdog, Sure I will tell.

[4everU]

Yeah, that's why the scene about him throwing the objects confused me a bit. But I got it.

Sword without a edge can still kill, I think his master said something about this in one of ep where he trained Iljimae. That's only if Iljimae chose to, and he never did. So that's impressive. My view is pretty much like his, I don't believe in killing people even though they are a killer to start with ya know like death penalty or whatever. Not many people are like that, so that's why I enjoyed this show.

Silent, just let me know if that movie you are planning to watch is truly worth watching, lol. Maybe need a box of tissues just in case? Heh.
I am going to check Fly Daddy Fly as well. Thank you for bring it up. ^^

I agree with you one 100%........Finally a show where the hero is not a killer and revenge is taken but in a .....lets say sweet way!

[4everU]

People can kill each other even with a spoon so why not with a sword ^^
For me he didn't want to kill coz he knew that if he do that he will become just one of the people he despise.

Silentwolfdog, Sure I will tell.

True!...

And about the sword that he had with no edge...yup..he could have killed with that easily, but since the edge was un able to cut, it prevented him from slashing anyone, if he ever hit them with the edge. If it were sharp, when ever he slashed someone they could have gotten killed....basically killing is based on the persons heart...if it's in you no matter what the situation is...you can kill!

[.Silent.]

Finally a show where the hero is not a killer and revenge is taken but in a .....lets say sweet way!

Hmm... Maybe not a sweet but more like a peaceful way

And about the sword that he had with no edge...yup..he could have killed with that easily, but since the edge was un able to cut, it prevented him from slashing anyone, if he ever hit them with the edge. If it were sharp, when ever he slashed someone they could have gotten killed....basically killing is based on the persons heart...if it's in you no matter what the situation is...you can kill!

I think that Kong He gave him that kind of sword also because he didn't want to make his life harder by thinking about unfortunately killed people in the battle.
Yongee knew that this sword was only for defense so he could focus on his mission

[belleza]

Well as far as I know he dies in one of his movies. And that's why I haven't watched it yet. Big Smile
It's called May 18 or so...

It's not a bad movie. Sandglass gives a more balanced look at the Gwang-ju Massacre, and from afar, you can see how the movie was formed molded a "disaster movie" style. THAT said, from somebody who isn't Korean, it's visceral and horrifying. It's a little like the Pianist, in that the actual massacre is depicted matter of factly, and you feel terrified. Lee Jung Ki's character is one of the main protesters in it. I thought he was a touch hammy, but the movie really isn't about acting.

Because people compared Iljimae to Hong Gil Dong I think I will watch it soon

Yeah, it's not actually not a fair comparison, because neither Iljimae nor Hong Gil Dong closely follow the original source material. One of Iljimae's inspirations was Hong Gil Dong -- again worth noting that HGD is a classic Korean novel, and Iljimae started out as a comic -- but in the original story, Iljimae was also an androgynous courtesan (ironically, Lee Jung Ki DIDN'T want to play that) and that was how he was able to infiltrate the noblesse. Another thing -- the general audience already knows that Iljimae probably won't die. It would be like doing a movie where Robin Hood or Batman gets killed, you would be seriously deviating from the cannon.

I overall liked the ending, but the show had production issues much like The Legend. First, I think SBS originally wanted Iljimae to extend to 24 episodes, but the Iljimae production crew (note that it was originally supposed to air in the fall, and that it only got moved due to Dae Mul) struggled to finish the story in time. If you notice, the show starts out fairly slowly, building all of its interrelational bonds, and then toward the last 2 episodes, a bunch of it just gets flattened without real resoluition. Also, it sounded like Jung Ki developed a cold or something as the show was finishing. Jung Ki isn't really in the last 15 minutes of the show. What you get is a redux of the first episode and a close-up of him posing in front of the tree. Literally edited together on the same day as airing time.

In terms of the king dying, the problem there is this king actually did exist. If you killed him off, that's like making a TV show where, say, Grover Cleveland was killed by Johnny Appleseed. Sometimes, you see a sageuk that messes around a lot with the noble timeline, but not in this way. (Jung Ki does get to pop a few guys in Time of Dog and Wolf . . just to remind people he's totally bad ass too ;) ) His "No Kill" oath reflects his master's philosophy, just as Shi Hoo's reflects his master's ruthless/demonic philosophy (thus him killing his own teacher at the end.) At the same time, it also explains why he doesn't die at the end. Sa Chun reaches for Iljimae's edgeless sword instead of his own. As a result, it badly hurts Iljimae without actually killing him.

My hunch is that, right after that scene, Shi Hoo (who also needs to go into hiding) helps Yong-ee escape, and they probably together head for the mountains. So, we can assume that they've reconciled their differences. My guess is that the young boy's story is true. Iljimae probably goes to China, perhaps to save Dae Shik's father. Because his identity has been revealed, he can't return to his family or to Eun Chae.

What confuses me about the end with regards to Kong He. From what I read, when he picks up the shoes, there's two shoes and he gripes about "that girl" (from the subs.) However, sevenses points out that the more accurate translation is "that rascal." Girl would be Bong Song. Rascal would be Yong-ee. It appears, given their mutually dishevelled look, both Bong Song and Kong He reconciled. If the translation reads as "rascal", then it's possible that Yong-ee eventually ran off with Bong Song (as he had originally promised) and Kong He to live on the island again.

[V3SMTOWN]

l wonder if he died?
over all it was a good drama

[.Silent.]

in the original story, Iljimae was also an androgynous courtesan (ironically, Lee Jung Ki DIDN'T want to play that) and that was how he was able to infiltrate the noblesse.

OMG! Really?! Didn't know that... Androgynous courtesan... Shock... Do you know where I can read this manga on line or from where I can dl it?

And if I was Junki I wouldn't agree to that kind of role too

[belleza]

And if I was Junki I wouldn't agree to that kind of role too

Mm hmm. I definitely can't see Junki playing a beautiful, female-ish character. Oh wait . . . ;) (Actually, Sevenses points out that, at the end of episode 20, there's a pile of books that translates to "Love of Dog and Wolf", "the King and the Woman", etc.)

I think, more or less, when Jun Ki was cast in Iljimae over Jo Ji Hoon, the producers remade the story into a Jun Ki star vehicle. He himself said that they wanted to redo Iljimae as a larger than life, national hero sort of character (think Jumong, think Batman, think Time of Dog and Wolf.) Now, you could argue that Iljimae is more like the Hong Gil Dong of canon, whereas the 2008 Hong Gil Dong is more like what Iljimae ought to have been. From what I read, the only aspects that were really consistent wit the Iljimae story is his "I Can Steal Anything in the World!" catchphrase and the flower. Most everything else was new.

. Do you know where I can read this manga on line or from where I can dl it?

Actually I'd like to know myself (though the manhwa dates from the 70s.) The producers of the MBC Iljimae bought the actual rights to the books, so presumably we'll see a true adaptation of the original work.

Though uhhh, in a dress, Lee Jung Ki > Jung Il Woo

[maakopla]

Sa Chun reaches for Iljimae's edgeless sword instead of his own. As a result, it badly hurts Iljimae without actually killing him.

I like this. "If you use a sword to kill that sword will eventyally kill you" And since he didn't kill kill he was left alive

My hunch is that, right after that scene, Shi Hoo (who also needs to go into hiding) helps Yong-ee escape, and they probably together head for the mountains. So, we can assume that they've reconciled their differences. My guess is that the young boy's story is true. Iljimae probably goes to China, perhaps to save Dae Shik's father. Because his identity has been revealed, he can't return to his family or to Eun Chae.

What confuses me about the end with regards to Kong He. From what I read, when he picks up the shoes, there's two shoes and he gripes about "that girl" (from the subs.) However, sevenses points out that the more accurate translation is "that rascal." Girl would be Bong Song. Rascal would be Yong-ee. It appears, given their mutually dishevelled look, both Bong Song and Kong He reconciled. If the translation reads as "rascal", then it's possible that Yong-ee eventually ran off with Bong Song (as he had originally promised) and Kong He to live on the island again.

I agree about a bit unclear ending. Kong He's words confused me too since the subs said girl but he definitely said something else. Then I read that director himself said that Kong He bought the shoes for Bong Soo. Why would he buy exactly same pair of shoes for himself and his daughter (I mean don't women use different kinda shoes)? Also when he shout "Where is that rascal?!" they showed us Iljimae.

Kong He and Bong Soo must have reconciled indeed but why were they at different places at the end? Was Bong Soo really able to forgive him? If they ended up apart from each other isn't Bong Soo then the most pitiful character? First her family got killed, then she found out a man who killed her family had been next to her for all her life, then the guy she loved didn't love her back and she ended up alone. What did she do wrong to deserve such fate?

Bong Soo and Young-ae might have run away together but then again why did Kong He buy 2 pairs of shoes in the first place?

[belleza]

@maakopla,

I like this. "If you use a sword to kill that sword will eventyally kill you" And since he didn't kill kill he was left alive

Very much so. Part of Iljimae's image to the people was that he didn't kill, that he was something purer than other men. And, of course, the irony goes that his Robin Hood adventures were actually a smokescreen for his lust for revenge, and that various people he loved lost their lives due to it. For the sake of this drama, he had to overcome his lust for revenge.

There is also interesting contrast between him and his brother, who after all finally killed the man who killed their true father, who also happened to be his master.

First her family got killed, then she found out a man who killed her family had been next to her for all her life, then the guy she loved didn't love her back and she ended up alone. What did she do wrong to deserve such fate?

Oh I agree. As painful as Yong-ee's past was, I thought Bong Soo had suffered far, far more. The man she loved as a father was the one who brought her the most suffering. I don't know how she can reconcile with him, and yet I don't even know how she can revenge upon him. Because make no mistake about it, she still very much loved him as her father, and he very much loved her and waited for the day to atone for what he had done to his daughter.

My favorite emotional scene was in episode 19 when she and Kong He were at the cliff. You can see the despair in her eyes -- "you wouldn't daddy?!?" -- when she believed that Kong He would kill her. And the same, Kong He most clearly expressed his regard for Bong Song as his own daughter in his own red, scared eyes and "you'll be okay. you'll be okay" sincerity. In this show, it was their most essential moment as surrogate father and daughter.

Surely by that point of the story, Yong-ee would have realized that the truth between Bong Soo and Kong He and knew that, she TRULY shared the same scars, and that the spiritual burden would be so great as to render cheerful Bong Soo into a lost, utterly broken soul. There would also be karmic reciprocity were he to stay with Bong Soo. His 2nd father loved and took Dani in even though Swe Dol knew Dani would always love Lee Wong Ho. Over time, Dani did fall in love with him, realizing almost too late. Yong-ee promised to take Bong Soo with him, but this was all before Bong Soo nearly sacrificed her life and before Yong-ee had to feel that loss. If Yong-ee was not necessarily in love with Bong Soo the way he was with Eun Chae, I would like to believe that he too realized almost too late the bond that they shared. Eun Chae loved Geom, loved Iljimae, but didn't love Yong-ee. Bong Soo loved Yong-ee. After everything, Bong Soo also needs Yong-ee.

. Then I read that director himself said that Kong He bought the shoes for Bong Soo. Why would he buy exactly same pair of shoes for himself and his daughter (I mean don't women use different kinda shoes)? Also when he shout "Where is that rascal?!" they showed us Iljimae.

You know, I thought about that awkward scene between Bong Soo and Yong-ee's two moms. My hunch now is that it seemed awkward not because Bong Soo was now a lost soul, but because she knows where their son is, and she can't reveal it to them.

[maakopla]

@belleza

There is also interesting contrast between him and his brother, who after all finally killed the man who killed their true father, who also happened to be his master.

i actually liekd teh contrast between Young-ae and Shi Hoo too. The other one was trained to kill and another one to save lives. That's why Shi Hoo's master got killed but Kong He, even after committing such crimes, was still alive at the end of the drama. I kinda get morality in this drama and I think it's very nicely presented. Disguised with all action and more superficial things. If you watch closely and think about it you will see the real heart of the drama^^

My favorite emotional scene was in episode 19 when she and Kong He were at the cliff. You can see the despair in her eyes -- "you wouldn't daddy?!?" -- when she believed that Kong He would kill her. And the same, Kong He most clearly expressed his regard for Bong Song as his own daughter in his own red, scared eyes and "you'll be okay. you'll be okay" sincerity. In this show, it was their most essential moment as surrogate father and daughter.

yes, it was a good scene. But all I was able to think back then was how stupid royal guards could be. The fake Iljimae was like 2 time smaller than the real one which tehy had just seen. Can't they see the difference? And the roayl guards were really stupid trough out whole drama (though it's a part of robin hood story) Like in the last episode when Iljimae "sneaked" in the palace in the middle of the day and no one noticed him.

Eun Chae loved Geom, loved Iljimae, but didn't love Yong-ee. Bong Soo loved Yong-ee. After everything, Bong Soo also needs Yong-ee.

I was kind of disappointed that Eun Chae didn't feel that Young-ae was Iljimae. If she truly loved him wouldn't she feel it? Also his hairstyle was the same... Anywyas. I feel like Dan Hee, Eun Chae realized it too late as well. If she had realized Young-ae was actually Iljimae earlierthey could have ended up together. But even though Young-ae and Bong Soo shared same kind painful past I still think Young-ae would love Eun Chae for a long long time. Maybe in the future they could even end up together. Or then like you said. Since Young-ae decided that he can't be with Eun Chae because of her father (which is a completely stupid reason) maybe he will eventually let his feelings cool.

You know, I thought about that awkward scene between Bong Soo and Yong-ee's two moms. My hunch now is that it seemed awkward not because Bong Soo was now a lost soul, but because she knows where their son is, and she can't reveal it to them.

This may be true. I felt the awkwardness too and I thought it was because after being away for a long time she had come back and that would make her feel awkward because all memories came to her. Also the way she disappeared so suddenly. Also the way Bong Soo was, she didn't seem that happy go lucky girl anymore. I felt like she had gone trough a long and painful road of lotsa thinking. And maybe alone. But then again I just can't imagine Kong He and Bong Soo apart. That's just impossible.

[incube]

I also feel that the ending was kinda rushed leaving lots of things unexplained... and i think that they tried too hard to make it similar to HGD but ended up missing important things.

I personally think that Shi Ho rescued Yongee and found him a place to hide and kept it a secret between them. That would explain the scene were he says that he is keeping the bloodletter for the sake of the ones his brother wanted to protect.
Kong He would be living in hiding together with Boon Son in that island and Boon Son knowing that Yongee was still alive went back to find him. A very sad and pitiful ending for Boon Son.... loosing her family because of Geom, being rescued by the one that killed them and not being able to take revenge, falling in love with Younge without knowing his identity as Iljimae, sacrificing herself and end up crippled to protect him and after all that she ends up stuck with her father in hiding without being able to be with Younge.
I guess that everyone knew to a certain point that Younge wasnt dead but woudnt go looking for him since he was still being chased by that crazy king.

[artalicous]

The ending is a bit confusing...but you have not to worry...so if you haven't see all the drama yet, do not read it...because it will ruin the end, and the hole story! Its is realy a awesome drama so watch it ...after seeing it and you to not get the ending I am reviling the end...
Iljimae is killed, but at last scenes and you focused at the drama you will see that the killer, hit Iljimae with Iljimae-sword, the sword that it blades doesn't cut ...remember his "teacher" given him and telling him it is not for killing...but to protect...also in all the drama nobody caught cut by that sword... So he could not be dead, after all the scene that we see at the begin is after his death, cause if you look closer he has new weapon added, the bow at his hand...that sth he did not own before...
Yeah I was wrong The child is not Iljimae, but his none-biological parents...
Also "The Return of Iljimae" that will be start jan-2009, will be palyed by the actor Jung Il Woo...
Plus it is not broad casted at Sbs, but it based at the manga cause it is authorized...

[amktsy]

The real ending of iljimae is iljimae is not dead.

[hacksign]

I'm gonna stick with my theory that it's was intended to be an ambiguous ending. Though the sword wasn't meant for killing, they did also say that if can kill if that is your intention.

What it comes down to is what you want to believe, and I don't just mean personally for the audience. For the citizens existing at that oppressive time, they speak about him as a folk hero and they want to either believe that he is still alive or give others the impression that he is still alive. However, the final episode shows a conflict such that everything sounds like second-hand knowledge. It's like, "I heard from a guy who said..." No one who should have certain knowledge outright said anything.

But as for a more personal opinion, I would say that there would be no way that the assassin could have messed up what appears to be an easy kill unless he really wasn't trying. Seriously, as much as I want to believe he's still alive, if you leave me to decipher the ending myself, I have to say there's a certain finality in the last strike that would make it improbable that he could have survived.

[lilmadnut]

I think in the end Eun Chae sort of guessed Iljimae's identity, just that she wasn't 100% sure? Because when Yong showed up at her house again she seemed to be looking at him differently

[cc(,``o]

i started watching this drama a couple of days ago and in as much as i'm enjoying the series i have to say i'm somewhat disappointed by the events. this is way too tragic for my taste.