SOPA/PIPA/ACTA

Discuss about anything here that doesn't fit in the other categories. Just don't spam.
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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 23rd, '12, 16:36

Great. The future surely looks dark.

Anyway, I know, copyrights, and company losses are behind this move. But, out of curiosity, I took a look at one, only one Korean agency, hated all around the world - SM Entertainment. http://www.smtown.com/ir/ir_03.aspx
As you may see, their profit went really up those past 3 years. despite music, DVDs and all being pirated. Why, because damn loyal fans download the album, and then purchase it!!

I don't buy the excuse of company losses. Especially in Korea, when they pay artists 0.00001 cent from each album sold (well this is an exaggeration, but you get my point).
As I said - loyal fans will always spend their money on merch, whatever it is.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 23rd, '12, 17:15

I would not have coughed up 150 euros to buy a damn You're Beautiful Director's Cut DVD had I not downloaded and watched the show first. Neither would I have bought movie DVDs or bags and watches based on anime.
With Hollywood, you can at least rent the movie and buy it IF you like it. But how are we supposed to know if we WANT to buy an asian drama or movie? Just spend hard-earned money without knowing what you're buying?

Companies get WAY more because of piracy than the "losses" they suffer. If they had the brains and willingess to make their products available online, for a reasonable price, where people can watch and then buy, we'd all be happy.
Or if they made the DVDs available and FUNCTIONAL worldwide and if they changed the video standards so that I don't loose half the screen when playing an Asian DVD on a European television. On a crappy region-free DVD player.

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Post by ozawa00 » Jan 23rd, '12, 17:56

as always the people always get wrong! where is our freedom?

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Post by Issy » Jan 23rd, '12, 18:35

Just like Ori
I have lost count of amount of money I have spent on all sort of Asian entertainments. From mangas & art books to amines, OSTs , music CDs & DVDs , movies and dramas (Japanese, Korean , Chinese and Hongkong) not to forget my monthly cost of high speed Internet. Now without any way of getting to know all about them via Internet how would have they profited from my hard earned money?
Bigger things are happening behind all these.

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Post by Keiko1981 » Jan 23rd, '12, 18:41

Issy wrote:Just like Ori
I have lost count of amount of money I have spent on all sort of Asian entertainments. From mangas & art books to amines, OSTs , music CDs & DVDs , movies and dramas (Japanese, Korean , Chinese and Hongkong) not to forget my monthly cost of high speed Internet. Now without any way of getting to know all about them via Internet how would have they profited from my hard earned money?
Bigger things are happening behind all these.
We still have the torrents.
I think that if one place gets shut down, others will eventually replace it. Now just let's see what happen with all this and of course, continue to protest.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 23rd, '12, 19:05

And it's not just that Asian countries don't want to expand and make their products available to us. The US wouldn't let them. They won't let any country ruin their Hollywood monopoly.

I can't be as hopeful as you, Keiko. The reason why people have been able to find different ways to provide these things, is because certain laws were obeyed and because they were allowed to.
But the rich and powerful are no longer keeping still. If they rule over the internet, no matter what ways people find, they can't do a thing when they're watched and shut down immediately when found.

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Post by sensei991 » Jan 23rd, '12, 19:41

Now it appears that even torrents are being affected.

http://www.webpronews.com/megaupload-take-down-2012-01

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 23rd, '12, 20:07

Hm, so you mean it is a question of time when the hosters will be closed were the DA torrent files are saved? Hopefully not, there are also nearly no alternative filehosters anymore...

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Post by Keiko1981 » Jan 23rd, '12, 20:18

Sorvaseven wrote:Hm, so you mean it is a question of time when the hosters will be closed were the DA torrent files are saved? Hopefully not, there are also nearly no alternative filehosters anymore...
D-A's torrents is at: zoink.it, torcache,net and torrage.com
Time to make precaution plans?

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 23rd, '12, 20:23

Was it already mentioned that MyAsianCinema is closing for now too? I don't know about Let's Look, since they post all of their news in French...

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 23rd, '12, 20:26

No i think it's to early to make some plans, we have to wait how the hosters will deal with it in the next few weeks. DA works pretty fine at the moment, so i think we should be calm down a little bit ;). Futhermore without the admin nothing can be changed!

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 23rd, '12, 21:08

Oh hell, it's obvious they won't leave torrents alone. They will take down trackers and it's all gone.

Plus:
http://elreyestadesnudo.tumblr.com/post ... e-european

One user (Lucky) on Let's-Look wrote:
The simplest way would be to rent web space with unlimited disk space. Unlike the file hosting website hosting companies do not look the contents of their clients website (because they have too much clients). And again, no risks that the links will be deleted because of copyright problems.
I have no knowledge on this, is this even possible?

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 23rd, '12, 21:46

Well, anyone can buy their own space to upload sites or project or their own work, but if someone found out about the things they keep there, all responsibility and punishment would go to the single user who has that space.

For example, MyAsianCinema didn't get in trouble, because they hosted files on other services. If they got space of their own and were somehow found out, they would be the ones to get dragged away from their homes into U.S court.

If ACTA doesn't go through and the country where the servers are at isn't hunting people like the U.S is though, it's doable. But it's still a risk that no non-business person and professional would be willing to take.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 23rd, '12, 21:47

well, a quick google says not quite http://blog.readysetconnect.com/2008/07 ... bandwidth/ . Disclaimer: I'm not techy. That doesn't mean someone can't figure out a way to get around that. I don't know how, but I am sure that a solution is possible.
This may not be an immediate problem, but I don't see how brainstorming for a possible future is a bad thing. Best case scenario-whatever solutions we discover are never needed. But if a solution is needed, isn't it better to have an idea of what to do beforehand?
Edit: Heck, absolute worst case scenario? People can use the chain letter method via snail mail to distribute fansubs. Not the most fantastic idea I've ever had, but that's what brainstorming is for.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 23rd, '12, 21:53

8. ACTA will not solve global media piracy. High prices for media goods, low incomes, and cheap digital technologies are the main ingredients of global media piracy.
Relative to local incomes in Brazil, Russia, or South Africa, the price of a CD, DVD, or copy of Microsoft Office is five to ten times higher than in the United States or Europe, the Media Piracy in Emerging Economies report shows. [Karaganis, 2011]
There is no distribution of legal CDs and DVDs outside the capitals. Some 90% of the people in emerging economies can only turn to illegal media copies. Stronger enforcement can not solve the piracy problem, which is basically a global pricing problem, a sign of market failure.


A-F*cking-men and I'm not even religious...

Edit: Did I just say "f*cking men"?... Well, at least the depression didn't get rid of my perverted streak...

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Post by moadeep » Jan 23rd, '12, 21:56

So who's A then? :thumright:

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 23rd, '12, 22:01

No clue. My mind is still stuck on teh naughty.

I should sleep now. I'm watching Korean movies with some classmates tomorrow. It will be a bit sad, in a way.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 23rd, '12, 22:02

Sleep, at least one of us should and I doubt it's gonna be me!

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 23rd, '12, 22:04

Orion1986 wrote:No clue. My mind is still stuck on teh naughty.

I should sleep now. I'm watching Korean movies with some classmates tomorrow. It will be a bit sad, in a way.
So watch "The Chaser".
:mrgreen:

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 23rd, '12, 22:12

We're watching Haunters and Arahan. I'll either forget about this mess and have actual fun for a few hours or then get even more pissed every time I remember I'm watching a work from a place I won't be having access to soon. XD

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 24th, '12, 05:22

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Post by nonski » Jan 24th, '12, 06:30

just wanted to ask this... will our use of torrents be affected by SOPA/PIPA/ACTA?

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 06:56

If they are passed, yes. Forget about torrents then. Forget about a lot of things then. Especially ACTA is one heartless mother.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 24th, '12, 07:44

MegaUpload - Closed.
FileServe - Closing does not sell premium.
FileJungle - Deleting files. Locked in the U.S.
UploadStation - Locked in the U.S.
FileSonic - The news is arbitrary (under FBI investigation).
VideoBB - Closed! would disappear soon.
Uploaded - Banned U.S. and the FBI went after the owners who are gone.
FilePost - Deleting all material (so will leave executables, pdfs, txts)
Videoz - closed and locked in the countries affiliated with the USA.
4shared - Deleting files with copyright and waits in line at the FBI.
MediaFire - Called to testify in the next 90 days and it will open doors pro FBI
Org torrent - could vanish with everything within 30 days "he is under criminal investigation"
Network Share mIRC - awaiting the decision of the case to continue or terminate Torrent everything.
Koshiki - operating 100% Japan will not join the SOPA / PIPA.
Shienko Box - 100% working china / korea will not join the SOPA / PIPA
ShareX BR - group UOL / BOL / iG say they will join the SOPA / PIPA

Japan, China and Korea have a say NO to the FBI and that even if laws are passed in the USA will not have any value within the sovereignty of their countries!

P/S: mediafire has start deleting copyright protected files. Only left is the personal files.

Source: http://www.blackhatworld.com/

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 07:51

Remove anything with a title that might seem like a pirated file! Ecchan, your work files! Save them to your computer! One by one, of kors, as you need a PREMIUM f*cking subscription to bulk download...

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 24th, '12, 07:56

OK, I'm f*cked right now...

Wait, "personal files" as 'free account folders'? Or paid subscription?

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 24th, '12, 08:03

The "Great Witch-Hunting 2.0" has begun! Really scary to see nearly all inportant filehosters are now banned and maybe the inquisitors are coming slowly to DA... :(

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 08:03

Wot, Ecchan?

Let them come. We'll find a way again. When people can no longer access Asian entertainment, those countries and THEIR rich people won't rest until the US lets us share again.

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 24th, '12, 08:13

I mean, I do have an account on mediafire, the free one, with only email registration. Those accounts will be deleted too? :pale:
I'm saving my work files just in case, but I can't save 1000+ files of K-entertainment though...

Seriously, we wake up not knowing what next day will bring us.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 08:19

I'm guessing everything that looks pirated will be gone. You can keep the kent stuff and hope they don't ban your account or something.

But it's a risk. It's also a risk to erase them before knowing what tomorrow brings. Your call, love. :-(

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Post by bluesue » Jan 24th, '12, 09:00

im worried if they taking down irc and torrent too, seem my internet life will over :lol

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 09:18

I grew up with it. I HAVE no other life. I don't go to bars or cafeterias. I am not social with random people and I will not spend money on coffees. And it should be my right to chose that life for myself.

If they close everything, I will lose all of the things that shaped me as a person, all of the hobbies I have enjoyed, my single only outlet and comfort in the otherwise hard and unstable life that I have.
A lot of us have grown up with the use of the internet being a big part of our daily lives. For networking, work, entertainment and even helping our offline life along. They have no right to take all that away.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 24th, '12, 10:45

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 24th, '12, 11:15

OK, so they have up their as*es the 'copyright protection', 'intellectual property' etc. but all they care is unpaid taxes.

Where that puts us, usual users who:
1. pay taxes
2. pay for internet service
3. pay for storage
4. pay for merchandises (DVDs, CDs, goods, calendars, photobooks etc.)?
Image

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 11:21

Look, they made a loooot of money out of people's need. They're dicks. That's not debatable. Making enough to support the servers and keep things running and make a normal profit for yourself, since you need money for doing the work and to live, that is fine.
But these guys made a LOT of money from this. It wasn't out of the kindness of their bleeding hearts. Violating the law to help people reach the things they need is not the same as violating it to become stinking rich yourself. They're as bad as the companies.

But that still doesn't mean the US can just let everyone else, the users, suffer, because these guys are bad. It's like telling me you'd close a bank if the boss was stealing from it.
People NEED the banks so you find someone to run them. But no. They don't want us to "steal" their precious files and ruin their monopoly. Well, newsflash. People still won't buy.

Just because they stop us from downloading things doesn't mean we'll suddenly pull money out of our asses and buy their stuff at the prices they sell them (even if we can find them, with this crappy availability). Look at the economy, you idiots! We HAVE no money!

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 24th, '12, 11:29

Oh well, I do understand the severity of it. They made money illegally, fine. They broke the law, fine, they can end up in jail with lifesentence, I don't care.

But I don't like when those big companies call it 'a fight for copyright protection'. It's not, it's as always, only dirty fight for money. Poor suffer the worst in such cases.

But as you said, users suffer just because some a*sholes made big money out of everyone who can't afford to spend 8776565$ a month for albums and DVDs.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 11:45

Then some people say "Well, don't buy them then. Change hobbies. Go outside. We were fine before the internet!". Well, YOU might have lived a life without it, but not everyone has.
"Going outside" costs money too, changing hobbies costs money sometimes and no one should be forced to do something that has not been a big part of their lives because of money.

How would YOU feel if people older than you told you, "We lived without electricity! Stop complaining that they stopped giving electrical power to the poor! Just live according to the sun and the day and night!"

We grew up in the time of the internet and no one has a right to take away something which has shaped us and our time. How would these older people feel if, when they were growing up, someone had banned radios and television and going for coffee?
Hell, people who have lived through wars experienced all that. You'd THINK they'd understand, more than anyone, how it feels to have fundamental things and freedoms taken away from you. The people who once fought for freedom now strip us of our own...

THAT is what has become of our world.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 24th, '12, 13:14

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 24th, '12, 14:36

There is only ONE positive aspect about shutting down all filehosters, streming sites and torrent trackers.... 8) . 160 Billion kilowatt hour need the internet every year and file+torrent+streming traffic amount more the half of it, so reducing power = reducing pollution of the environment :D

....but.... a daily grind without dramas..... :| :cry: :hissy:

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Post by takeda_shingen » Jan 24th, '12, 14:55

TenguKing wrote:I'm not talking about this silly call your congressman/senator crap,
That is at least a start. Get political. Vote for people who act in your interest, vote against those who don't, and tell them why. Talk to others who used file hosters legitimately, and get them to do the same. If all this shutdown results in is a circle jerk of people reaffirming themselves how unfair it was, the world at large will not care.
or even Anonymous doing their e-attacks, which as far as I can see seem rather minimal
That, on the other hand, seems completely useless (or even counterproductive), nothing more than a sulking child's reaction.

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 24th, '12, 15:26

There is a talk about a demontration tomorrow, 6 pm in Poland.
This is what you are talking about? the usual people going out on the streets protesting not only for their own rights but for the free world/internet?
Whole Europe should do the same.
That would cause chaos, but maybe it's worth it?

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Post by lullabye » Jan 24th, '12, 17:09

Ethlenn wrote:There is a talk about a demontration tomorrow, 6 pm in Poland.
This is what you are talking about? the usual people going out on the streets protesting not only for their own rights but for the free world/internet?
Whole Europe should do the same.
That would cause chaos, but maybe it's worth it?
I hope there will be massive protests in Europe. And that they will spread throughout the world.

Nearly all the problems that the content owners complain about would be relieved if they would bring their distribution methods into the 21st century. They could learn about fansubbers and fans worldwide and create spaces for continued collaborative efforts and socializing. But they don't understand and would rather jail the world than live in it.

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Post by nikid » Jan 24th, '12, 17:21

"Tuesday 24 January 2012, around 16.30 Paris time, the European Parliament Committee on Development will hold a first exchange of views on ACTA."

Also, Google Debate on ACTA, last year

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 17:26

The problem is, because it's not covered by mainstream media and because people who are not too keen on the internet think it's just about stopping piracy and "them internet nerds", the news hasn't spread.
I mean, I look at news portals, communities I'm at, my own Facebook profile where I have quite a few young students from my school, and no one is talking about it. It's like it doesn't exist and doesn't affect them.

So, I don't think we'll do much with offline means. Simply because a) the masses don't know because no big media spread it and b) because all they hear are complaints from nerds who whine about their files.

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 24th, '12, 17:32

Keiko1981 wrote:
Sorvaseven wrote:Hm, so you mean it is a question of time when the hosters will be closed were the DA torrent files are saved? Hopefully not, there are also nearly no alternative filehosters anymore...
D-A's torrents is at: zoink.it, torcache,net and torrage.com Time to make precaution plans?
I am really untaught about the status of the torrent storage services DA uses so far. I mean they are not regular filehosters, but are they safe at the moment or in the near future after ACTA is established? Well, maybe we can't know it now but nevertheless it's still concerning me, because the torrent system is the last alternative we have (without trade via post and mailing^^).

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 18:26

If you think any laws you might know of are preposterous, then know that in Greece, money is taken from people who need it (even those with real disabilities) and given to PEDOPHILES, because they are considered disabled...
Yes. We pay hefty sums to a pedophile while a mother of 3 can't even buy her much needed medication. And that is just one country. We're all governed by such people and, worst of all, the US, which seems to rule the world now.

And then we wonder why they make laws like SOPA or ACTA and don't mind turning us into slaves. We're already slaves. If they can do such things and let people die, I doubt they'll shed a tear over f*cking up our interwebs.

History has shown us that people join forces and revolt in such situations. But, as nice as the internet is, it's also true that the modern man does not join hands so easily. I may be having too little faith in mankind, but I don't feel anyone will seriously react to this.

And that is a sad thought. It's sad to know people will not be able or willing to really fight against this, united. It's sad to know that mainstream media coverage and its absence in this issue will cause people to just idly sit by and let it happen, because there isn't enough "buzz".

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Post by nikid » Jan 24th, '12, 18:44

Yea, and when they realize it, it will be too late. And that's the problem

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Post by ChootiB » Jan 24th, '12, 18:53

Orion1986 wrote:If you think any laws you might know of are preposterous, then know that in Greece, money is taken from people who need it (even those with real disabilities) and given to PEDOPHILES, because they are considered disabled...
Yes. We pay hefty sums to a pedophile while a mother of 3 can't even buy her much needed medication. And that is just one country. We're all governed by such people and, worst of all, the US, which seems to rule the world now.
Is this true? Seems incredibly odd that they would do something like this.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 19:00

Yes, it's true. During Christmas, they also chased away all the homeless people from the benches and safe haven of a big square in Athens and let them freeze to death, because they would ruin the festive look and keep "non-dirty" people from visiting the place and shops.
And I can tell you dozens upon dozens of other such acts, laws and rules that make any sane person want to rip their hair out. THESE are the kind of people that rule us. And I can tell you, they do not reflect the Greek people. No normal citizen is that cruel. But our government is.

And our government is just a bunch of dim, opportunistic little pricks. Imagine what the politicians of bigger governments, with even bigger power over their (and other) people, are like. I really don't see much hope from any government on this.
And the ministry of Culture in Finland just suggested that ISPs should BLOCK their users' access to any pages that contain pirated material, like The Pirate Bay. And this is FINLAND. One of the most fair and modern and good-to-live-in countries!

Imagine what other, less aware and with-the-times politicians and governments think like!

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 24th, '12, 19:18

I saw a lot of news in the television about greece and it made me really sad! Children are starving while sitting in school, because the is no money or donates for a breakfast. But i think the monetary problems will reach other countries too, even "richer" countries. It's always the same in the human history, money concentrated more and more at one "point". You can calculus it with simple mathematics rules. (There are some nice books about it but they are for sure no mainstream books :D). And then people got more and more frustrated and maybe an inflation comes too and tightened a lot of self-made problems. So in conclusion, you can't rule and organize life and communities only with money, if you do it, a lot of self-made problems will grown worse and worse... And ACTA is an additional experiment to organize and rule communities with laws to regiment monetary flow...

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Post by nikid » Jan 24th, '12, 20:31

Its awful what is happening in Greece. And knowing that, unfortunately I have to say portugal is going on the same way

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Post by Tyrea » Jan 24th, '12, 22:26

I spent all day yesterday reading up on this c*ap that has been happening, and didn't sleep well, so my mind is completely burned out and I'm not sure how coherent I'll sound. Apologies in advance.

First, honestly I'm not too optimistic about acta either. Apparently the polish government decided to sign it in spite of all the complaints? I might be wrong and I so hope I am, but If there's one thing I've learned about big corporations and governments, it's that we can complain all we want in whatever ways we want, they will go along with what they want like nothing happened. If you look up footage of various protests around the globe, you'll see the police using all sorts of aggressive methods to get rid of people. The only reason why they backed out on pipa/sopa for the time being is the fact that the big guys in the IT world complained and protested. Without them it would have been passed for sure. Google has been posing questions about acta for a few years now, and I hope that the major IT players will support the cause again.Without them I don't know if we can do anything. And the sad thing is, people get used to the bad stuff and just accept it as reality...Seen it too many times.

Btw also look up H.R. 1981aka Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers.
and this
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/sop ... -bill.html
http://torrentfreak.com/us-threatened-t ... aw-120105/

The NWO/centralized police state conspiracy theories aren't all that funny anymore. Remove the esoteric/alien stuff, the political things involving the bankers, corporations, the U.S., surveillance and stripping citizens of their rights seem to be quite correct.

And for the kdrama/kpop fans who thought SMEnt was bad watch this video. Ignore the obama stuff, and pay attention to the lawsuits. If you don't want to watch the whole thing, start at ~2:10. To say that they're despicable is an understatement.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ai2ra0HwSbQ" frameborder="0"></iframe>
As for the file sharing in general, it will never die. Worst case scenario,you'll just need a few more clicks than now, or to read instructions before you attempt it for the first time. When napster went down people thought it was the end, instead we got a bazillion of other p2p clients. Whenever one went down (i.e. winmx, kazaa), new clients or new ways of sharing were invented. There are brilliant IT people out there that understand the inner workings of the internet inside out and consider coding and free flow of information their lifestyle and their meaning of life, and rest assured that they will not just stand watching. Before torrents came we depended on p2p programs, FTP servers, dc+, usenet and irc and they were a wonderful source for everything (and may i say, i've never liked torrents too much. awesome for popular, new stuff, too unreliable with old and less popular stuff).

examples of good things giving hope:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/11 ... next-month
(i put it mostly because of the last paragraph, it's not that complicated but just in case here's a simpler article http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... -links.ars)

and

http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay- ... es-111130/
(oh and I totally encourage you to read mozilla's questions to the homeland security. so damn satisfying)

Let's have some hope.

p.s. nearly forgot, there was an article some time ago in which it was admitted that all the piracy loss estimations are made up and that there is no reliable way of knowing how much and if piracy truly harms. i don't remember if it was related to games specifically (honest gamers have to put up with some really crappy/invasive forms of drm which serve to prevent piracy) or in general, but i'm guessing that even if it talked only about games, there's not much difference. if i manage to find it i will post it.

edit: just to have my mind at peace - @geeks who rolled their eyes, yes it's networks and clients.
Last edited by Tyrea on Jan 25th, '12, 20:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 24th, '12, 23:02

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 24th, '12, 23:50

Sharing is not going anywhere, but the road to a stable new system will be hard and possibly longer than usual.

But thank you, Tyrea, for all your links (I will look at all of them tomorrow and find you that article you talked about, I know I've seen it somewhere).
And than you for your good words. A lot of us have gotten angry and depressed so we need a fighter to help life them very very downed spirits. XD

And Tengu, when a country has been through so many wars, civil wars, a junta, dictators and has generally been pulled and shoved by everyone around, people get tired and lose faith and moral guidance.
Greeks of older generations went through a lot, so modern ones have this "get what I need, even if I have to cheat or bypass the system" mentality. A survival mode. A mentality passed down by those before us.

Also, the government kept us in such a blissfully unaware state of "We're fiiine. Greece is awesome and we have lots of money!" that most people thought they could live by certain standards that were really not there.
Furthermore, when a government shows such hypocrisy and corruption and doesn't give a flying f*ck, people get angry and this "f*ck it, I'll just care for myself and take what I can by any means" mentality grows then.

We are emotional people and we lash out when we see injustice. But the thing is, we lash out and try to protect ourselves with means and ways that we think harm the bad government, but really harm us and our fellow men.
Hypocrisy, lust for personal gain and money is what makes our politicians and church rotten, but it's anger and bitterness and disappointment that makes people react in bad ways as well. That's why we're such a mess now.

There are good solid people in my country. Wonderful people with principles and kindness. But they are surrounded by authorities and a world which just hurts them and anything they hold dear. They get tired and bitter.
When a person is stripped of their hope, their rights, their ability to hold their head up high and feel like a human being with some value, they lose motivation and they can't help themselves or others. But someday, it will be better.

Greeks are wonderful people. We're smart and we're street smart. We're open and aware, we think, we have spirit. That's something our culture embeds into us, even at this state. So, eventually, we'll find our dignity again.

I hope that with everything that is going on now, people all over the world will be the same. I hope that no matter how hard things get, we'll all be able to pick up the ashes of what they destroy and make something new.
We don't know what will happen and when, but the internet and its freedom are something people need and have gotten used to. You can't take certain things back, no matter how hard you try. This will only go forward.

Edit: I found the article!

How Much Do Music and Movie Piracy Really Hurt the U.S. Economy?

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 25th, '12, 02:33

[DELETED BY AUTHOR]
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excerpt from 1984, Chapter 9...

Post by TenguKing » Jan 25th, '12, 05:07

... But it was also clear that an all-round increase in wealth threatened the destruction -- indeed, in some sense was the destruction -- of a hierarchical society. In a world in which everyone worked short hours, had enough to eat, lived in a house with a bathroom and a refrigerator, and possessed a motor-car or even an aeroplane, the most obvious and perhaps the most important form of inequality would already have disappeared.

If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction. It was possible, no doubt, to imagine a society in which wealth, in the sense of personal possessions and luxuries, should be evenly distributed, while power remained in the hands of a small privileged caste. But in practice such a society could not long remain stable.

For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance.

To return to the agricultural past, as some thinkers about the beginning of the twentieth century dreamed of doing, was not a practicable solution. It conflicted with the tendency towards mechanization which had become quasi-instinctive throughout almost the whole world, and moreover, any country which remained industrially backward was helpless in a military sense and was bound to be dominated, directly or indirectly, by its more advanced rivals.

Nor was it a satisfactory solution to keep the masses in poverty by restricting the output of goods. This happened to a great extent during the final phase of capitalism, roughly between 1920 and 1940. The economy of many countries was allowed to stagnate, land went out of cultivation, capital equipment was not added to, great blocks of the population were prevented from working and kept half alive by State charity. But this, too, entailed military weakness, and since the privations it inflicted were obviously unnecessary, it made opposition inevitable. The problem was how to keep the wheels of industry turning without increasing the real wealth of the world. Goods must be produced, but they must not be distributed. And in practice the only way of achieving this was by continuous warfare.

- George Orwell, 1984

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Post by moadeep » Jan 25th, '12, 05:47

http://youtu.be/SvVO6Y-3CM8
This seems to be the anthem of the internet right now.

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 25th, '12, 06:13

Stop American Censorship

It has options for US and non-US citizens, has a censoring code for your banner and also a converter which can turn your posts into censored ones so you can add them to your social media.

Lots of info and pages.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 25th, '12, 06:21

Yeah, I think they've been working with OpenCongress, which is the site i use to track things and contact my elected leaders.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 25th, '12, 06:38

[DELETED BY AUTHOR]
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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 25th, '12, 07:12

Oh please, he was no hero, he was the same as Pol Pot, a murderer.

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Post by moadeep » Jan 25th, '12, 07:22


Sorvaseven
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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 25th, '12, 07:52

Please don't get me wrong, but i think DA shouldn't be the place to post pictures of mass murderers like the Kim family or Che and i also think DA shouldn't be the place to personlize political and economic systems!

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Post by moadeep » Jan 25th, '12, 08:08

I can definitely see your point, but at the same point, we are discussing something political and economic that could affect DA.
When speaking about politics in a forum about Korean Dramas, well, I think it's kind of inevitable that the Kim family will be mentioned. And when you're talking about revolutionary tactics (such as the blackout) it's inevitable that someone like Che Guevara will be mentioned.
I can understand your discomfort, but at the same time I feel it has been made pretty obvious that this is a political thread, so if anything like this makes you uncomfortable you should probably avoid it. Would something like putting [Political] in the title help so that people who don't want to don't have to deal with it even by accident?...or something?

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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 25th, '12, 08:55

I got your point moadeep, but we should be careful with the popularize of politician or mass murders. I don't think that these popularize has much to do with SOPA/PIPA/ACTA :wink: Of course it's quite useful to post a link for a petition or which politician is for or against of particular laws, because we want all the same - free internet and a functioning DA :-)

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 25th, '12, 11:30

I'm with Sorvaseven on this one. Some may admire Hitler but please, don't post his pics everywhere. This is a topic for entirely different issue.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 25th, '12, 12:27

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Post by Orion1986 » Jan 25th, '12, 12:37

First of all, I also hate talk of politics and throwing names around. ONE person does not move the world; they are just the "spokesperson" of a certain movement and the one whose name we remember.

Secondly, if violence can be avoided, I consider it a good thing. Fight and die? Over the internet? It's important, but we can surely find better ways. To me, life is the most important thing.
People have had their lives in danger when they used violence. They used it to live, to survive. They had no other means to fight, or choice, and the matter was a matter of life and death.

As much as I love the internet, I don't want people to hurt others or themselves because the tycoons are being bitches. We can't compare the situation now to war. It's disrespectful to all the lives lost.

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Post by Ethlenn » Jan 25th, '12, 12:37

To go back to topic, look what I found, people are resisting, but it's not a mass uprising though.
I guess people got to complacent with their own situation and even if they write "we need revolution", they think "but let someone else do it".
Poland will protest today, however:
Image

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 25th, '12, 12:44

[REMOVED BY AUTHOR]
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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 25th, '12, 13:09

I think there could be alternatives to the old torrent system if trackers would be shut down. Look at here:

http://anomos.info/

"Anomos is a decentralized peer-to-peer file sharing system derived from BitTorrent which is capable of protecting its user’s identities by means of an advanced, planned mix network. Its purpose is twofold. In one way it is simply an intellectual exercise; we are computer scientists interested in encryption, the limits of anonymity, and the design of networks. In another sense it is a profound demonstration of individual liberty, a demand for freedom, privacy and anonymity on the Internet. Here I will give a brief outline of the technical details of Anomos. As the project is still in the early stages of development some aspects of it are still subject to change."

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Post by curlywurly » Jan 25th, '12, 13:15

I hope most of you realise that the whole hoopla surrounding SOPA/PIPA/ACTA, whilst drafted under the guise of copyright protection, has absolutely nothing to do with enforcing intellectual property.

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Post by TenguKing » Jan 25th, '12, 13:19

[REMOVED BY AUTHOR]
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Post by Sorvaseven » Jan 25th, '12, 13:22

curlywurly wrote:I hope most of you realise that the whole hoopla surrounding SOPA/PIPA/ACTA, whilst drafted under the guise of copyright protection, has absolutely nothing to do with enforcing intellectual property.
... but rather with freedom of opinion, right? But copyright protection will be a alongside aspect ;-). This SOPA/PIPA/ACTA has a split tongue, i think most of us know it...

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