CNN insulting Chinese people

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Badboy Club
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CNN insulting Chinese people

Post by Badboy Club » Apr 25th, '08, 18:58

Cafferty (CNN host) said in a TV show on April 9 that the Chinese products are "junk" and the Chinese people "basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they've been for the last 50 years."

CNN then issued a statement on Tuesday saying "it was not Mr. Cafferty's nor CNN's intent to cause offence to the Chinese people, and CNN would apologize to anyone who has interpreted the comments in this way." However, the network stated that Cafferty was offering his "strongly held" opinion of the Chinese government, not China's people.

Jack Cafferty said something retarded on CNN. He is racist and criticized China, underestimate china government. by saying that statement on CNN, he is challenging the Chinese government. Now CNN is facing a lawsuit of 1.6 billion dollars by 14 lawyers in Beijing, China, reason of the lawsuit is CNN and their host Jack Cafferty violated Chinese people's dignity and reputation, and human kind rights. Shame on CNN, bad image. I am very disappointed at CNN, so as everyone in the whole world.

I personally express if he thinks Chinese products are junk, stop trading in China, not everything is junk, and just because of that issue, doesn't mean all Chinese people are stupid.

For more information,
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 965345.htm

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9077 ... 94107.html



http://www.mercurynews.com/tv/ci_8956731

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 8839.story
Last edited by Badboy Club on Apr 28th, '08, 05:24, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by krim » Apr 26th, '08, 07:36

Shouldn't you say Jack Cafferty is insulting chinese people, and not CNN? There are so many problems with your post.

and chinese products ARE junk, this Rolax watch I got broke after 2 weeks. :lol

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Post by loksun » Apr 26th, '08, 08:08

I'm quite appalled at how unprofessional Jack Cafferty was. If he held that view in private, that would be his own business. But to say that on CNN, as a news broadcaster, that's unprofessional. And CNN's explanation is still, in my opinion, not good enough. He should have been censured for saying that. It doesn't matter what he feels in private, on the air he represents the company, hence CNN. CNN is an international news network and its purpose is to report the news, not make commentary of this kind of bias nature.

Personally, I don't watch CNN. I canceled our cable subscription way before this issue anyway. CNN is too far right for my liking and its bias towards the Western viewpoint of the world is not something I care for. Personally, I feel it is wrong of a news channel to be this bias and to mis-use the power of the press/media this way, hence, I will not support that.

rgds

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Re: CNN insulting Chinese people

Post by lovelylil819 » Apr 26th, '08, 08:10

Badboy Club wrote: Now CNN is facing a lawsuit of 1.6 billion dollars by 14 lawyers in Beijing, China



Haha..serve them right. :lol

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Post by Prince of Moles » Apr 27th, '08, 05:48

Eh, I'm gonna troll a bit. Frankly, the Chinese government's track record since 1949 is crappy.

Great Leap Forward = oh yes let's starve over 20 million people
Cultural Revolution = oh yeah let's go destroy countless cultural treasures and kill 1million people to boot while plunging the country into anarchy
Tiananmen Square = let's kill students who want a cleaner government and, gasp, some democracy
Xinjiang and Tibet = let's try and culturally wipe out the Uighers and Tibetans by flooding their homelands with Han Chinese and turn the locals into the minority

etc etc

I will grant that these things were positive:
under Deng and afterwards there was great economic development and lots of people were finally lifted out of poverty (currently this is coming at great environmental cost, but all 1st world countries faced this so I'm not gonna the fault the Chinese on this one)
gender discrimination is the weakest in Communist China than ever before in Chinese history
ruinous population growth seems to be under control (despite some serious human rights violations, population control is probably more important unfortunately. Oh by the way, Mao and the communist government is to blame for exasperating the population explosion)

Overall, I have a pretty low opinion of the communist government in China. Democracy is doable even with a population of 1 billion (e.g. India, not that India's track record is stellar, but it's still hell of a lot better).

So yeah if Cafferty's intent was to say that the Chinese government is "basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they've been for the last 60 years" then I'd more or less agree.

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Post by zyrene » Apr 27th, '08, 06:55

uhmm i also heard this in 1 of the video in youtube...

"GOD MADE MANKIND BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IS MADE IN CHINA!!!!!" :D

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Post by hacksign » Apr 27th, '08, 07:14

just wanted to point out that America isn't really on the best of terms with China. something to do with all the spying and lead painted toys and whatnot which is making their relationship quite tentative.

anyways, when i heard that (just taking it in perspective) I immediately thought of the lead painted toys that caused a great series of recalls and lost money and reputation and how it might have lead some people to say that their stuff are "junks." as for the "goons and thugs" comment, that might fly if he was merely referring to the government but definitely not the people. With the Olympics and the Tibet issue that has been going on recently, I find it more than a little likely that he was just being caught up in it all so I take him for his word that he meant the government and not the people...

so, in the end I find this a little silly for people to say that it's alright for me to turn on the tv and radio and hear americans criticizing their own government all the time but that they aren't allowed to criticize other people's government. most broadcasting business is about people express their opinions and if it's not one that you agree with, no one is forcing you to listen. just acting indignant every time you hear something that you don't like is gonna totally wear you out sooner or later and you should remember that most stuff are a big issue only because people make it a big issue.
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Post by groink » Apr 27th, '08, 08:57

People just can't speak their minds anymore without ticking a group of people off.

Because CNN hired Cafferty to speak his opinions on things, he has to say how he feels about things. For those of you who don't like what he said, then tell us exactly what Cafferty should have done? Should he have said, "I have nothing to say?" Should he have made something up? Cafferty is not a journalist. He offers his opinions on things like politics and economics.

IMHO, China does produce crap products. Even if a western company tells the Chinese to produce its products in a certain way, the Chinese will always attempt to cut corners to cut down cost - but still charge the same production price. That's why many toys coming out of China have lead-based paint - not because the western company told them to use lead-based paint, but because the Chinese decided to say "Hell with using enamel paint!" and switch to lead-based paint. Lead-based paint is cheaper and it dries faster, allowing them to push the products off the production line a lot faster.

And YES, these people are goons and thugs!!!! The Chinese government is always saying, "Oh, yes, we're doing something about it." but they don't. And they can't do anything because the corruption is so wide-spread it is totally out of control. In a 60 Minutes segment a few years ago, they even said if the government did actually shut down bootlegging and such, the country would easily turn into total kaos.

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Post by ainawy » Apr 27th, '08, 09:24

it's truelly amazing what the understanding of free speech is for some people .. how on earth is calling a nation and it's people a group of goons and thugs can be acceptable under the excuse of free speech and " speaking your mind ' ... offcourse you're gonna tick off a group of people if you address them with such remarks cause no one with a piece of pride and dignity would settle with cafferty's bull statment
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Post by Tao Libra » Apr 27th, '08, 09:49

First of all, Cafferty's criticisms about shoddy Chinese manufacturing standards were entirely valid and accurate. Suggesting otherwise is simply delusional.

Secondly, his remarks about 'goons and thugs' were very obviously not directed at the Chinese people, but at their tyrannical government — and those remarks were also entirely valid and accurate.

Lastly, none of what he said constitutes 'racism.' He never once said (or even implied) that 'all Chinese people are stupid,' and anyone who thinks he did is hallucinating.

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Post by loksun » Apr 27th, '08, 10:46

Tao Libra wrote:First of all, Cafferty's criticisms about shoddy Chinese manufacturing standards were entirely valid and accurate. Suggesting otherwise is simply delusional.

Secondly, his remarks about 'goons and thugs' were very obviously not directed at the Chinese people, but at their tyrannical government — and those remarks were also entirely valid and accurate.

Lastly, none of what he said constitutes 'racism.' He never once said (or even implied) that 'all Chinese people are stupid,' and anyone who thinks he did is hallucinating.
Nope, Cafferty's criticisms are not entirely valid nor entirely accurate.

Actually, not all Chinese goods are shoddy. A lot of stuff you currently own and think is good is probably manufactured in China. China manufactures tens of thousands of goods a year and only a fraction of it isn't good.

Moreover, if you know the up-and-coming Chinese brands well, you'll know that several are making great strides in quality. That is a natural progression. China's stride into it's own industrial revolution is only but a recent thing. In the beginning Japanese goods were also shoddy and so were Korean goods till they evolved.

This kind of broad-base slamming and choice of words is uncalled for, especially in a news programme. If the same was said about any country's goods, people and government, I think they would react. To pretend that the Chinese people's reaction is anything but normal is delusional.

Secondly, I don't think that their government is made up of "goons and thugs". China has made much progress in the last two decades and from the looks of it will continue to make progress. The China of two decades ago is very different and much bleaker and has less freedom than the China of today and there is no reason to think that the current form of government will not keep evolving in keeping with China's progress.

China is going though a natural process of political development and should be allowed to do so without the West dictating how it should progress. Not everyone needs and should use Western styled democracy, each country should have a form of government that is good for its own nation and people, not something other countries force on it regardless of the said county's culture, history and current development.

Anyway, if China's government is full of "goons and thugs", then IMO, it is pretty much the same of the US government who have started more wars in the last two to three decades than any other country in the world.... oh and coincidentally, none of them was on home ground... how convenient.

Whatever... I do not wish to continue this because I know that every time I get into this in a forum filled with people from the West, they have no idea how many people from the East feel. This so called freedom of expression and freedom to decide how your country should progress is only given a stamp of approval if you agree that the correct form of progress should be Western styled democracy which I do not believe in.

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Post by gnossienneslent » Apr 27th, '08, 11:19

badboy club wrote:Now CNN is facing a lawsuit of 1.6 billion dollars by 14 lawyers in Beijing, China, reason of the lawsuit is CNN and their host Jack Cafferty violated Chinese people's dignity and reputation, and human kind rights.
Well, I guess suing is probably a pretty good indication that Cafferty was wrong and the Chinese are ready to do things the Western way, but I'm really not seeing how they could sue for violation of human rights. I would, in fact, say that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights sides with him even if you think he's a bastard. (see Article 25, No. 2, Article 19)

China makes bad products because people buy the junk, but that's not the only place in the world by any means. 'Made in Japan' used to carry the same stigma as 'Made in China' carries today. They make it cheap so people can buy it cheap. Don't like it? Stop buying crap you don't need. Stop buying cheap junk for things you do need.

I think China missed a great opportunity to take the higher ground and admit they have almost as many problems as people, but it's much more likely that penguins are going to knock on my door and give me a machine that turns nuclear waste into gold.

Good historical points Prince of Trolls.



Edit: I watched the clip and it's pretty clear that they were discussing the government. I think he's as critical of the US government for getting financial backing from China to wage war. He may have had a valid point, but name calling, even if there is some truth to it, doesn't generally win people over.
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Post by hacksign » Apr 27th, '08, 12:19

First, the toys with lead paint on them are aimed at children and they are DANGEROUS. If you don't want me to speak badly about the Chinese then fine, I'll say that it was an honest mistake. In this day and age, they really didn't know the danger of lead-base paint. As for the other Chinese-made stuff, just because they make a lot of stuff and we buy a lot of them doesn't make it GOOD. It just makes them cheap. One thing in which they cannot be blamed for is the human compliancy and whimsical attitude. It doesn't matter if it last long because we'll probably scrap it for something else beforehand, but believe me, most of the stuff (especially electronics) don't last as long as it should.

Secondly, I'm sorry to say but progress is only relative to the rest of the world. Yes, they are making progress but you have to also question why they had/are having a hard time doing it which I think could aptly be called a government issue.

Third, their reaction is all a part of what I've already said about making this a big issue. Yes they are mad but only because they want to be so. It's like saying "if you factor out all the potential sources in which lead you to arrive at your opinion such as the truth about how we skimp out on our production and all the government acts of oppression towards *cough* Tibet, then all you have left are lies and accusations." C'mon even I can admit that there is some truth whenever someone criticizes America and thus I don't really get that offended by it. The Chinese however are DELUSIONAL if they think there is no merit in what was said.

Fourth, the East and West comment seems pretty offensive. I mean, if my family is from the East (which it is) and I just so happens to move to the West, I've become too Westernize to understand this situation? It's like also saying like all Eastern nations are on a united front and are completely understanding and accepting of one another, which is completely untrue. If you don't believe me, just check it out yourself by asking all Eastern nations to tell how they feel about each other. The closest you can get to being correct is if you say that non-Chinese can't understand the feelings of the Chinese. Yes, true. It is a different culture with a different set of belief and attitude but it still isn't shared among ALL the Chinese. So simply put, what you are trying to say is I can't understand how deeply you feel about this issue. Fine, you got me.

Lastly, this imaginary stamp of approval based on the form of government does not exist. People judge on the ACTIONS of the government. Just like I can say that America's war mongrel president is too arrogant (and I can say it despite the fact that *gasp* we do have a democracy), I can also say that the actions of the Chinese government have made it seem like there are goons and thugs controlling the government. As for the freedom of expression and speech that you seem to take offense with, if you do not subscribe to people's right for them, I really don't think any further conversation will help because I believe that people have the right to express their opinions (no matter how wrong I think they may be) and you probably believe that civilization should just revert back to censorship of all things against government and that I should just shut up.

(And just as a disclaimer, I wrote this to be sarcastic and not biting which doesn't carry well in written text. Just a disclaimer before people start making claims or accusations based on what they think I saying instead of what I'm really saying.)
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Post by benchmarkjoe » Apr 27th, '08, 12:44

China is trying to dominate Southeast Asia, took the land from the other countries, but don't they know it's 21st century.

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Post by dokodemodoa » Apr 27th, '08, 13:43

this kind of issue could cause more blood to shed :whistling:
I really do think this western kind of thing who always vigorously speaks their mind pointing that "this were right" or that' ridiculous" from theis own point of view could learn to respect another culture's norm and manner..

and yes, I myself agree that the chinese product's durability a bit ... bad. But I'm no someone, just a face in the crowd telling my opinion. I don't know who is this Cafferty guy, but he must've realize that his words do have effects on people, he's on CNN for God's sake. Didn't he realize that the people he's bad mouthing would watch him and be insulted?

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Post by GhstDreamer » Apr 27th, '08, 14:03

hacksign wrote:First, the toys with lead paint on them are aimed at children and they are DANGEROUS. If you don't want me to speak badly about the Chinese then fine, I'll say that it was an honest mistake. In this day and age, they really didn't know the danger of lead-base paint. As for the other Chinese-made stuff, just because they make a lot of stuff and we buy a lot of them doesn't make it GOOD. It just makes them cheap. One thing in which they cannot be blamed for is the human compliancy and whimsical attitude. It doesn't matter if it last long because we'll probably scrap it for something else beforehand, but believe me, most of the stuff (especially electronics) don't last as long as it should.
Almost all profits from the manufacturing plants go back to the huge multinational corporations located in America, Canada, Britain, Germany, France, etc. The decisions to use cheaper labour and cheaper materials come from those guys (and I say guys because the last time I checked very few women are that high up in any multinational corporations). Where I live in Canada, we've lost a lot of manufacturing jobs to Mexico because of the extremely cheap labour - does this mean the product is better? Cheaper labour just means a cheaper price tag and I don't know how many people are willing to purchase a standard bare bones car for $50000 CAD if all the parts are manufactured in developed countries (already cars in Canada carry a much higher sticker price than the US - one of the reasons is the high wages, pension and benefits of unionized workers in Canada as compared to US). The reality is that as long as the multinational corporations are always seeking out new countries to exploit for cheap labour (and using cheaper materials), there will always be the danger of substandard goods. If the plants in China decide to use more expensive materials, increase the standards of working conditions, a living wage, etc., all that overhead costs will make it very unattractive for the corporations to do business there and will end up folding up their manufacturing plants and moving them somewhere cheaper - like Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philipines, etc.
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Post by Silentwolfdog » Apr 27th, '08, 19:17

I don't mind paying a bit more for better goods. But I reckon I am in a minority. Honestly, I just want more goods from US instead of China. Or even better goods from varied countries. I would think it's cool to say, "Oh, that table is made in Egypt, that chair is from England, and oh that television is made in Japan." It makes your space just sound so cool. lol

I dunno, about freedom of speech. It's like you are asking someone not to call a bad guy, "bad" because it offends him. I find it a bit ironic, the world have been saying bad thing about America and yet it sounds like we aren’t allowed to say bad thing about other countries.

From his perspective they aren't good folks. I won't blame someone from other countries looking at American's government as bunch of arrogant fool, if there's a good facts backing it up.

But I think for media, that comment shouldn't really have been made. I think CNN's responsibility is just state neutral but true information. I expect that kind of comment to be from tonight show like on Jay Leno or whatsoever but not on the news. O.o
There are also deaf fans of Asian drama, so it would help all of us if spoken English is subbed as well even if it is just one word or one sentence out of whole sentences. So we would not be lost when subtitles suddenly disappered when they speak little English.

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Post by hacksign » Apr 27th, '08, 21:00

Gonna stick my head in one more time to be a devil's advocate (or actually a free speech advocate, however you want to think of it). It's true that America does ship a lot of their productions overseas but it is to cut COST not STANDARD. While their quaint little belief that they can get the same quality for cheaper overseas might seems ugly and capitalistic even to me, I sincerely doubt that they would sanction the manufacturing of products that cannot pass health or safety standards. Don't get me wrong though, it's not because they care about us, it's because they care about THEMSELVES. It's simply bad for business if stuff get recalled and add to that the possibility of a potential lawsuit. It's just no way.

Also, as for the nature of commentary news, it's more liberal than you might want it to be but it is in no way unacceptable by law. All this talk about "he should watch what he says," "he has to be neutral," "he has to/can't be [X], [Y], and [Z]" defeats the purpose of COMMENTARY news. When you're in one of those jobs, first and foremost, you want to create a personality and gather your audience base according to it (believe me, you probably unconsciously do this to with every choice you make about what the read, what to watch, what to listen to). His personality just happens to be blunt and possibly provocative (which is a popular personality type nowadays). If you don't like what he says, fine, don't listen. But it's hypocrisy to say that "despite the fact that it's your job and you're being paid to do it, you aren't free to express your opinion on the off chance that someone might get offended by what you're saying." Given that it was his job and his rights to express his opinion, I think it's kind of harsh to turn the whole thing around and blame him for having an opinion that you don't agree to when you choose to watch. I mean, out of the stuff you chose NOT to watch, people are getting away with saying worst stuff merely because they don't have people who don't agree with them watching.
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Post by ali_sen » Apr 27th, '08, 21:22

Okaaaaaaaaaay....

I dunno what such a big fuss is about. When people in other countries call the US lazy, fat, ugly, stupid, etc etc etc. You know what? We know what free speech is. Let's roll over and take it, k?

Yeah, so it wasn't nice to say. There was no empirical evidence. That's not the point.

Why should someone get sued for saying they don't like something or someone? That's just ridiculous. What a big fuss over nothing. No one in the world is going to like everyone else. No one is going to say only nice stuff. Next thing ya know, kids in pre-school will get sued for saying their classmate is stupid.

Grow up! So someone says something you don't like. Just ignore it.

Free speech means we have the right to say nice things. It also should mean that we can say **** too.

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Post by Badboy Club » Apr 28th, '08, 05:46

For more information,
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_7965345.htm

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9...3/6394107.html



http://www.mercurynews.com/tv/ci_8956731

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2778839.story

Honestly, Jack As Cafferty refered to chinese people, not chinese government, he did not specified that. I bet Jack As has home appliances and furnitures and housewares are made in CHINA. Today, more than 80% of merchandise are made in China. Not everything are junk. CNN should pay for the lawsuit and fire Jack As Cafferty. No exceptions. Just like they had no choice of making apology to all the Chinese people. The U.S. superior court has accepted the lawsuit case for 1.3 billion US dollars against CNN company in New York, USA. They will have 30 days to comply. The lawyer said, it's freedom of speech, not freedom of libel.

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRe ... wtMostRead
Last edited by Badboy Club on Apr 30th, '08, 07:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tao Libra » Apr 29th, '08, 10:23

CNN offered the apology as a courtesy, not because they were obligated to make it. They will not be firing Jack Cafferty, no matter how much noise anyone makes about what he said.

Furthermore, please rest assured that the laughably ridiculous $1.3 billion lawsuit filed against CNN will be thrown out of court — if it even makes it to a courtroom — because it is frivolous, absurd, and cannot possibly demonstrate any real damages, which happens to be a requirement in a libel lawsuit.

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Post by boris7 » Apr 29th, '08, 11:08

These type of comments are nothing new..... they have happened in the past and will happen again in the future. OK,.. yes you can get rubbish stuff from China, and you can get rubbish stuff from the USA and Europe and to include gangsters as well.

Silly comments always attract headline news....a marketing strategy by CNN.. :roll

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Post by kobe23 » Apr 29th, '08, 14:03

Products made in China aren't THAT bad, really. I know a friend who imports goods from China and some of the stuff that he's shown me seems to be of a pretty decent quality. I mean yes, a lot of companies like to manufacture things in China because of cheap labor, but not many people realize that India's labor is even cheaper than China's. So why don't they use India instead? Because the quality of labor is actually better in China than India.

And things can only improve, as more and more Chinese citizens become 'middle class', the cost and quality of labor will only rise. Having said that, I would probably not want to buy a Chinese car once their auto-manufacturers enter the global market :)

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Post by groink » Apr 29th, '08, 19:13

Badboy Club wrote:Honestly, Jack As Cafferty refered to chinese people, not chinese government, he did not specified that. I bet Jack As has home appliances and furnitures and
.... and as Jerry Seinfeld would say, "Yada yada yada!" Jesus, you're quite the champion of the Chinese people, aren't you? Just like Reverend Wright is with black people. There's many political conflicts within your country. And yet, you focus on one guy who said something that you've completely taken out of context. If I were to read into what he said, I probably can find something negative in it he said about Sakai Noriko... I mean, the Chinese people love her music and all. If you're going to take the immature route by referring to Jack as "jackass", then your credibility as a commentator here is shot.

A little about Human Communication 101.... Oral communications is quite different from written. When a statement is written, you can interpret the information more literally because we assume the man sat down, wrote the statement and proof read it about a thousand times (something I wish several D-Addicts members would do.) As for orally projected thoughts that come right off one's mind, there is a degree of error that any sane, clear thinking individual can apply. Assumption based on context is one of them. But in your case, it doesn't seem like in your 28 years of life on Earth you have grasped that idea. From what I gather, you've already developed these negative thoughts regarding the media before this story even made the headlines. And simply what Jack said was just kindling added to that bonfire burning in that head of yours.

D-Addicts is NOT to be used as a soap box. Enough already!

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Post by Badboy Club » Apr 30th, '08, 06:37

Monterey Park, CA, USA. American investment, under American management--all those low quality staff manufactored at American invested factories in China. Chinese workers are only CHEAP labours for American investors. in this case, you should blame on your business men. for them, important is profit not your life. thugs and goons? Americans are. you are in Iraq robbering their oil, you provide weapon to every countries in the world to make them killing each other; you pretend weak your dollars to make all of the world paying your debt; you are the one who trained Taliban and gave them the weapon.Cafferty, why don't you call your government goons and thugs? it is racism comments from my point of view.[6] CNN and other foreign satellite broadcasts can be seen only in hotels, offices and housing developments open to foreigners, meaning very few Chinese would have heard Cafferty's original comments. Censors also block many foreign news sites on the Internet, pointing to an underlying irony of the ongoing protests — that they profess outrage over foreign media reports that their government does not permit them to view.[21] The Chinese Foreign Ministry lodged a strong protest with the Beijing office of Cable News Network (CNN) on Wednesday evening, condemning the network as "without any professional reputation
Last edited by Badboy Club on May 1st, '08, 07:05, edited 1 time in total.

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groink
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Post by groink » Apr 30th, '08, 06:57

Pretty convenient how Badboy Club is using western technology to call Americans goons and thugs. It is just like how Osama bin Laden uses camcorders to spread his propaganda. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. Catch the next flight back to China (or ride a Junk) and enjoy the Olympics while you're at it. Then maybe you can do all of us a favor and stay there so that you can stay firewalled and away from D-Addicts.
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Badboy Club
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Post by Badboy Club » Apr 30th, '08, 07:32

Chinese hackers appear to be readying for an attack on the West scheduled for April 19. It appears the basis of the attack is based on the recent, and very public, pro Tibet coverage in Western media organizations...

While there is no apparent link between Anti-CNN and the hackers calling for the Denial of Service attack, the team at The Dark Visitor, who have been tracking Chinese hacking activity for some time, believe that it may be members of the Red Hacker Alliance that are pushing for the online attack to accompany the physical demonstrations.

According to Scott Henderson, administrator for The Dark Visitor, members of The Red Alliance have traditionally required very little in terms of direct motivation to launch politically motivated attacks against external sites. The Dark Visitor researchers have associated politically motivated attacks from this group against sites in the United States, Japan, Taiwan, and Indonesia.

UPDATE 2: This story, Chinese hackers: No site is safe, from just one week ago from CNN itself:

They operate from a bare apartment on a Chinese island. They are intelligent 20-somethings who seem harmless. But they are hard-core hackers who claim to have gained access to the world's most sensitive sites, including the Pentagon.

In fact, they say they are sometimes paid secretly by the Chinese government -- a claim the Beijing government denies.

"No Web site is one hundred percent safe. There are Web sites with high-level security, but there is always a weakness," says Xiao Chen, the leader of this group... [Get your VPN and read more]

UPDATE 3, 14:28 Shanghai Time: CNN.com appears to be up again. Sorry big blunder everyone, we forgot our VPN was on and yes, CNN continues to be blocked! Forgive us please, we're human!

UPDATE 3, 15:17 Shanghai Time: Pockets of people around Shanghai say they are able to access the website. CNN.com appears unblocked in Xiamen too.

UPDATE 4, 15:43 Shanghai Time: CNN.com appears to be unblocked in Kunshan, which is not far from Shanghai. Owners of satellite dishes around town are saying that CNN the channel is BLOCKED!

UPDATE 5: 00:19 Shanghai TimeL CNN.com appears to be finally up, BUT no news from CNN itself on what actually happened. Strange.

UPDATE 6: CNN report on its site outtage in China

Whatever comes around will goes around. Blame on CNN's host Jack Cafferty. It's his fault.
Last edited by Badboy Club on Apr 30th, '08, 19:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by gnossienneslent » Apr 30th, '08, 07:40

groink wrote:It is just like how Osama bin Laden uses camcorders to spread his propaganda.
Not to split hairs, but I believe the camcorder was developed by Japanese companies, albeit based on western electronics inventions. Thank you Mr. Kilby. Probably the best thing to come out of Texas in the last 60 years. (Of course, you could make the point that the goons and thugs at the CIA financed him so he could buy the little camcorder, but that would probably drive us off on a tangent.)

Well, you bad little boy, you might take the time to listen to the statement before Cafferty's. It seems very obvious that the context is the Chinese government. You could even include Chinese industrial leaders and investors if you wanted to interpret it loosely, but the main point is that he was talking about the people in control, which constitutes a miniscule percentage of the population of China.
bad little boy wrote:CNN and other foreign satellite broadcasts can be seen only in hotels, offices and housing developments open to foreigners, meaning very few Chinese would have heard Cafferty's original comments. Censors also block many foreign news sites on the Internet, pointing to an underlying irony of the ongoing protests — that they profess outrage over foreign media reports that their government does not permit them to view.[21] The Chinese Foreign Ministry lodged a strong protest with the Beijing office of Cable News Network (CNN) on Wednesday evening, condemning the network as "without any professional reputation
What? I, uh... what?? Really sweety, I don't know what you want to say here. So it's Cafferty's fault that only the people he was referring to have control of the media and therefore spare most of China from something that wasn't directed at them anyway? His main point in the whole thing was that the US is drowning in debt, and a lot of the investors are in China. PS He doesn't like the people in their government. So what? A lot of Chinese people don't like the Beijing government either. You wanna go sue them? They don't say things like this because it wouldn't be a good idea.

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Post by hacksign » May 1st, '08, 02:53

Badboy Club, I am beginning to find it quite a bit disturbing that it says that you actually live in America and yet somehow find it to be a more horrible place than China. Is is blind loyalty or just ignorance? It is also quite convenient for you to ignore everything people are saying.

There is no debate on the outsourcing so don't even try. Fact 1: Yes, American factories does do it to cut cost. EVERYONE should already knows it; however, we are not debating on the morality of this so stop being so fixated on it as the center of your argument. It is actually inconsequential to the actual debate which is about CHINA. Thus, Fact 2 is more important: The Chinese-made products are coming here without being able to pass HEALTH and SAFETY standards. This is either because of negligence on their faults or skimping out on the production so that they could pocket more of the money for themselves. You must know about this or else you wouldn't be conveniently ignoring this point and re-raising the first point as though it matters more so than the second in what we're talking about.
thugs and goons? Americans are. you are in Iraq robbering their oil, you provide weapon to every countries in the world to make them killing each other; you pretend weak your dollars to make all of the world paying your debt; you are the one who trained Taliban and gave them the weapon
Now these are just conjectures. Oil? Somehow I think if they were really getting so much oil from there I wouldn't be paying as much for gas as I do now (and believe me, now that I have a far commute to school, I really make it a point to pay attention to the price). On a whole, the gas thing is a conspiracy theory. If not, why are we still there when, on the oil front, it has been a horrible failure? As for the weapons thing, I'm not even gonna answer it because that comment is WAY too illogical and even insane. The weak dollar can answered by taking a few economic class. If you don't understand the basics of how the economy works, it's best not to comment of stuff regarding it. Finally the last thing about the Taliban, did America hand out weapons to the Taliban and say "Here you go, now use this to kill us?" History book anyone?

The only reason I answered the above is to make a point. They actually don't have anything do with China, but it does show a certain hypocrisy. You are saying worst thing about the American governments than what Cafferty said about the Chinese government and you seems to have no problem with it. What gives you the right to say what you think is the same thing that gives him the right to say what he thinks. In addition, it's part of his job description! Don't go using free speech to criticize free speech and expect to be taken seriously.

Your second problem is this: You are ignoring the facts at hand. His comment and opinion can be justified. What I mean is that it's up for debate in which both side can make arguments and present competing theories. Most of what you said were just conspiracy theory in which can be combated with simple knowledge. I don't know everything, but I know enough from a variety of different subject that I can spot (1) fallacies, (2) conjectures, (3) misinformation, and (4) inconsistency. I'm sure other people can too so try to be more sensible because, unlike you, he isn't treading the line between opinions and libel.

Lastly, about what Chinese hackers are doing, talk about vicious and malicious. If you think that it's justifiable, I really worry about you. I'm sorry to say, but free speech is only met with public lynching in places that have SERIOUS problems.
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Post by Tao Libra » May 2nd, '08, 08:07

Badboy Club wrote:Chinese hackers appear to be readying for an attack on the West scheduled for April 19. It appears the basis of the attack is based on the recent, and very public, pro Tibet coverage in Western media organizations…

The Red Alliance have traditionally required very little in terms of direct motivation to launch politically motivated attacks against external sites. The Dark Visitor researchers have associated politically motivated attacks from this group against sites in the United States, Japan, Taiwan, and Indonesia. …

They operate from a bare apartment on a Chinese island. They are intelligent 20-somethings who seem harmless. But they are hard-core hackers who claim to have gained access to the world's most sensitive sites, including the Pentagon.

In fact, they say they are sometimes paid secretly by the Chinese government -- a claim the Beijing government denies.

"No Web site is one hundred percent safe. There are Web sites with high-level security, but there is always a weakness," says Xiao Chen, the leader of this group…
I'm curious: Exactly how do you think that citing examples of Chinese hackers conducting illegal DoS attacks against anyone who dares to speak out against China disproves the suggestion that some Chinese are 'goons and thugs?' Are you genuinely too blind to see how ironic that is?

If these same people decided to make physical attacks against Western targets — say, by running out into the streets and rioting, looting, and burning Western-owned businesses — would you also cite that as evidence of how well-behaved and civilized they are?

Now let's suppose they did the very same thing against symbols of their own government. When the government responded by sending in troops and armored vehicles to clear the streets with automatic weapons fire — which is exactly what would happen — would you cite that as an example of how 'progressive' the government of the PRC is these days?
Badboy Club wrote:Whatever comes around will goes around. Blame on CNN's host Jack Cafferty. It's his fault.
Oh, of course. It couldn't possibly be the fault of the criminals actually committing the crime. It must be someone else's fault.

I'm sure it's the Tibetans' fault that the PRC goons and thugs had to cave in their heads and shoot them in the streets, too. How dare they fail to be happy under Chinese rule?

Nice little dream world you live in.

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Post by groink » May 2nd, '08, 18:16

Tao Libra wrote:I'm sure it's the Tibetans' fault that the PRC goons and thugs had to cave in their heads and shoot them in the streets, too. How dare they fail to be happy under Chinese rule?

Nice little dream world you live in.
Retards like Badboy Club do not know how to argue. The amateur method of debating, as Badboy Club is demonstrating, is the inclusion argument. Wikipedia and many other sites ban the use of inclusion because the method of arguing is so childish. Simply, inclusion is the "Well, Johnny's mommy let him do it, so why can't I?????" If the party he sided with has many wrongdoings, by method of inclusion he must find examples of other parties who he believes commit similar or worse wrongdoings, rather than admitting that the wrongdoings are just that - wrong!!!! It takes absolutely no brain cells to argue like this. It takes logic to realize that just because someone else commits wrongdoings, it doesn't make it OK for everyone else.

Badboy Club is probably in America because he can't handle the heat back in his home country - wherever the f*ck he's from. He probably took it in the *ss one time too many, and had to run to the U.S. for sanctuary. Doesn't he remind you of Hanoi Jane? Or Sean Penn? Or Johnny Depp? The Internet is so god damn convenient for these whiners.

--- groink
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