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Japanese actors survive in hollywood?

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Neji-sama
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Japanese actors survive in hollywood?

Post by Neji-sama » Nov 14th, '06, 11:05

Which actors do you think could survive in hollywood as an actor?

I'd say

Takeshi Kitano(he should actually already be there and gotten a OSCAR*!!!)

Tomohisa Yamashita(he's young and a really good actor. but his strongest point would be his looks I guess :P)

Yôsuke Kubozuka(VERY good actor, one of Japans best actors without a doubt!)

These are the 3 I can think of just like that who has the highest possibility to survive in hollywood as an actor.

Now tell me who you think could survive in hollywood :D
Last edited by Neji-sama on Nov 15th, '06, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.

oceansportrait
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Post by oceansportrait » Nov 15th, '06, 07:13

I think most Japanese actors/actresses wouldn't be able to make it through hollywood, just because the style of acting is so different. Most of the movies that come out of America are very obviously acted. When someone's sad, you can clearly see that in the expression on their faces, the tone in their voice, etc. etc. Where as with Japanese movies, much of the acting relies on subtlety. You have to really pay attention to details to reveal its true story. That's why the only movies that have had any success in North America are Japanese movies like "Shall we Dance?". It is over-the-top with eccentric characters. I think any near-meaningful moments in the movie went over most people's heads.

And I'm not saying this as an insult. I'm saying this to point out that in each country, the people who live there become used to that type of style that seem to be rampant in their movies. I think that's why when it comes to International Film festival and such, movies such as "Lily Chou-Chou" are reviewed as being "confusing", "a boring movie that goes no where", and "that kind of bullying would never happen". To fully appreciate a movie, you'd have to know something about the culture of the country in which it was produced. And with a country like Japan that has pretty strong cultural values & beliefs, this can't be comprehended by just your average viewer that goes to the movie theaters.

ainangst
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Post by ainangst » Nov 15th, '06, 08:47

such a delicious topic & perfect timing!

Takashi Kitano... i'm not familiar with his movies nor dramas, but he's stern looking old man right? Yamapi? Nope. I don't think he will survive. He was brilliant in Nobuta but sucked in Kurosagi (still love him. he's UBER cute!). Yosuke Kubozuka. YES! The guy is brilliant & can play any character with the most charming quirkiness. Plus he's sexy & can speak English quite well.

Death Note the movie is doing pretty well internationally. It might get a US release soon. Hollywood will be a buzz with the wonderful portrayal of Light & L by Tatsuya Fujiwara & that L guy (sorry...can't remember his name. he also plays Aya jerk senpai in 1Litre of Tears)

Ken Watanabe is big in Hollywood right now & will be in this year Oscar race for Letters From Iwo Jima, directed by Clint Eastwood, written by Paul Haggis & produced by Steven Spielberg. The film is the acompaniying film for Eastwood's Flags of Our Father & rumored to have an earlier limited US release on December rather than Feb2007 as planned since the film is said to be a better movie than FooF thus a better Oscar contender.
(Now came the best part)
What interesting is Ninomiya Kazunari (Stand Up!, Yasashii Jikan, Ao no Hono, Akihamende & a member of ARASHI) performance in the movie. He was highly praised for his performance in the movie after some big wigs from Warner saw the unedited version of the film. Playing a MARRIED(and with child) character who is a little bit older than his real age is a big step from his usual schoolboy, teen roles that he so often gets. They even mentioned of him being a possible nominee for the academy award in the news right after he made an appearence at the TOKYO FILM FESTIVAL opening for FooF. http://www.nikkansports.com/entertainme ... 06835.html
this is the official website : http://wwws.warnerbros.co.jp/iwojima-movies/
trailers also available at youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lno4UydJkE4
Will he survive Hollywood? I don't know but right now i'm proud of his achievements.

sorry for such a long post ^^;;

zany003
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Post by zany003 » Nov 16th, '06, 11:16

i don't know who could survive in hollywood considering the types of roles asian actors get in general. if satoshi tsumabuki did more in tokyo drift than just start a race, he probably might have a better chance.

i heard about letters from iwo jima when ken watanabe did an interview, but after reading this thread, haha, i did some research on my own.

i'm not much of an arashi fan, but i've seen several episodes of stand up! nino's actually my fave character out of the four guys, and i'm looking forward to seeing the movie. i kinda wish it would be released the same time as it's released in japan (dec 2006) instead of prolly spring 2007. if he's as good in the movie as they say he is, i just hope that opens the doors for more asian actors having roles that matter in hollywood movies.

ainangst
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Post by ainangst » Nov 17th, '06, 03:04

zany003 wrote:i don't know who could survive in hollywood considering the types of roles asian actors get in general. if satoshi tsumabuki did more in tokyo drift than just start a race, he probably might have a better chance.
he was credited as the "Extrremely Handsome Guy" in that movie. :P
with his looks & talents he might make it in Hollywood. He just need to learn to speak fluent English.
i heard about letters from iwo jima when ken watanabe did an interview, but after reading this thread, haha, i did some research on my own.

i'm not much of an arashi fan, but i've seen several episodes of stand up! nino's actually my fave character out of the four guys, and i'm looking forward to seeing the movie. i kinda wish it would be released the same time as it's released in japan (dec 2006) instead of prolly spring 2007. if he's as good in the movie as they say he is, i just hope that opens the doors for more asian actors having roles that matter in hollywood movies.
it has been announed that Letters going to have an earliar limited release (December 20th) to make it eligible for Oscar nominations
http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/entertainmen ... T00066.htm (translation available at sumoboy@livejournal)
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0611 ... iwo_jima_1 (news in english without Nino)

hillarious NewsZero interview featuring Clint Eastwood & Sakurai Sho(Bambii in Kisarazu Cats Eye & member of Arashi) at Letters From Iwo Jima World Premiere::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fYDKxQZ ... er&search=
Nino has been receiving heaps of praises for his performance and is said to be the central character of the movie. He even has more screentime than Watanabe.

goygakgoy
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Post by goygakgoy » Nov 18th, '06, 06:08

oceansportrait hit it on the spot.

J-entertainment seems boring cuz it's very detailed and the style of acting is so different...completely opposite. A guy can tell a girl he loves her...and u would totally miss it if u didn't pay attention or understand Japanese.

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BOGCHI
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Post by BOGCHI » Nov 18th, '06, 06:34

ainangst wrote:
zany003 wrote:i don't know who could survive in hollywood considering the types of roles asian actors get in general. if satoshi tsumabuki did more in tokyo drift than just start a race, he probably might have a better chance.
he was credited as the "Extrremely Handsome Guy" in that movie. :P
with his looks & talents he might make it in Hollywood. He just need to learn to speak fluent English.
He's English is pretty good though in Spring Snow
but I think his height might be a disadvantage

Wolfsbane68
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Post by Wolfsbane68 » Nov 24th, '06, 12:31

BOGCHI wrote:
ainangst wrote:
zany003 wrote:i don't know who could survive in hollywood considering the types of roles asian actors get in general. if satoshi tsumabuki did more in tokyo drift than just start a race, he probably might have a better chance.
he was credited as the "Extrremely Handsome Guy" in that movie. :P
with his looks & talents he might make it in Hollywood. He just need to learn to speak fluent English.
He's English is pretty good though in Spring Snow
but I think his height might be a disadvantage
Height wasn't much hindrance for Tom Cruise's career for ex (I wish it'd been) :P

ainangst
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Post by ainangst » Nov 29th, '06, 05:28

yup height shouldn't matter much.

i'm making a big deal out of this but... its NINO! gomen ^^;;;
- official American site for Letters from Iwo Jima: http://iwojimathemovie.warnerbros.com/l ... ework.html
- a short Ninomiya Exclusive cm:
lets see how this young actor will progress in Hollywood. they might just embrace him or totally ignore his brilliance.

Takekaze
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Post by Takekaze » Nov 29th, '06, 07:21

Knowing Hollywood, they'll ignore him. The majority of people in Hollywood sucks anyway. Just take Reaves and Cruise, both suck as actors, yet are extremely hyped. Hollywood used to be great, years ago, in the times of a Jimmy Steward or a even a John Wayne (even though I don't really like him). Could Japanese actors survive in Hollywood? Who really cares? I mean, all that would happen would be... typecasting (what's the standard Asian character doing in Hollywood movies? Either they get killed off quickly or are the super martial arts masters, amazing... not). And well, Hollywood is not the only movie industry, it's just the biggest, most hyped and certainly not the best (bigger isn't always better, you know). Hollywood would never be able to make movies like: Der Untergang, Das Boot, Otokotachi no Yamato or even "Sekai no chuushin de, ai wo sakebu" Instead they pump out movie slike the... Star Wars prequels, movies which swallow millions but aren't worth watching (thank you for killing Star Wars, George)

Just imagine Eastwood not being the director of those two Iwo Jima movies. The result would be horrible. Eastwood's old school, he knows what he's doing. If one of the younger ones would do it, let's say... Rob Marshall? Oivech... I don't even want to think about the result. A second "Pearl Harbor" (which is one of the most stupid American movies of all times and I still think script writer and director of it should be shot for showing only stereotypes with absolutely no plot, but with a lot of pro-American propaganda (something that is extremely common these days), yuck).
zany003 wrote:i don't know who could survive in hollywood considering the types of roles asian actors get in general. if satoshi tsumabuki did more in tokyo drift than just start a race, he probably might have a better chance.
Unlikely, considering that the movie had no plot and was a chliché from the beginning to the end (and extremely incorrect in pretty much every aspect, a typical American fantasy about a different country). As I said, bigger isn't always better.

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littledraci
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Post by littledraci » Nov 29th, '06, 07:46

Wee, to be true, I really don't want the asian actors don't get really addicted to Amerika. I think, it would be just a breakdown of their career and success, which they have in their countries... probably (only) because of the typecastin like takekaze said.

And I like the feeling of this unique style of the asian directors :lol
Takekaze wrote:Just imagine Eastwood not being the director of those two Iwo Jima movies. The result would be horrible. Eastwood's old school, he knows what he's doing. If one of the younger ones would do it, let's say... Rob Marshall? Oivech... I don't even want to think about the result. A second "Pearl Harbor" (which is one of the most stupid American movies of all times and I still think script writer and director of it should be shot for showing only stereotypes with absolutely no plot, but with a lot of pro-American propaganda (something that is extremely common these days), yuck).
Aye, totally agree with that :-)

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olympique
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Post by olympique » Dec 4th, '06, 01:54

I absolutely agree with takekaze on this :) Hollywood is by far the biggest( 2nd to Bollywood though) and most commercial movie industry there is, but i must say asian movies and then especially japanese and korean are more appealing to me...if it's the cute asian actresses that do it i don't know.... but the stories are so much deeper, and unlike the hollywood movies, it doesn't use sex as it's biggest "bait".....

but it's sad though, cause none of my friends feel the same, so i end up watching all the movies and dramas alone :cry: I watch holywood movies too of course, and i think there are many great movies ...

sharpe88
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Post by sharpe88 » Dec 4th, '06, 02:10

^ I would say the Korean film industry is 2nd after hollywood these days since it is exported all over Asia.

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Rovam
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Post by Rovam » Dec 8th, '06, 02:43

Typecasting and english fluency might be a stumbling block, but others have overcome it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cary-Hiroyuki_Tagawa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mako_%28actor%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Takakura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyoshi_Umeki

Miyoshi Umeki even won an Oscar for best Supporting Actress.

Out of the current crop... it's hard to say...

I don't know what the formula is for definite success for an actor/actress, but one thing I would hope is that the person wouldn't succeed on looks alone. They better damn well have some talent.

Not that she's an actress, but I really thought "Utada" was going to succeed on the US charts. Then I heard the Easy Breezy lyrics :cry: I love her anyway - Ultra Blue saved the day :wub:

ApathyEcstasy
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Post by ApathyEcstasy » Dec 8th, '06, 03:06

it's kind of pointless to compare the japanese film industry with hollywood...the vast difference in scale, production values, and talent pools makes it wishful thinking at best to believe that someone who's extremely well-known and appreciated in japan would be able to succeed in hollywood

Toritorisan
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Post by Toritorisan » Dec 8th, '06, 03:30

I always thought Kaneshiro Takeshi would have been a good candidate cuz he is good looking and pretty widely known in Asia. But I'm not sure what he is doing these days.

I think generally the ideal candidate would have to be fluent in English though, cuz it seems that a lot of people don't like watching movies with subtitles. I remember when Ken Watanabe and Hiroyuki Sanada were plugging the Last Samurai on the Today Show and were showing Katie Couric samurai movies. Then she asked if that was the most difficult part of the role, and they said "speaking English" was. I'm glad that Ken Watanabe is doing so well in Hollywood now. :-)

yieebo
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Post by yieebo » Dec 13th, '06, 22:31

i feel that not only Japanese, but asian actors in general will always be marginalized in HollyWood because asians are viewed as a threat to the west in general. from China to India etc asians are very strong and if they invade Hollywood they will get even stronger, they don't want that, so they marginalize asians and deny their strengths as intelligent dynamic human beings.

the closest thing to a Japanese presence in Hollywood was Godzilla, and the american version with Broderick was a huge flop. Brandon Lee (i know he was part Chinese not Japanese...) might have been a big hit if he had lived. i don't see any Japanese actor making it big in Hollywood any time soon. the next possible cross-over might be Bi-Rain, but that's only because he's based his entire life around being mainstream whatever the hells going on in america. if he was just another cute Korean dude, nobody would care at all.

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groink
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Post by groink » Dec 14th, '06, 07:15

Four words: Pink Lady and Jeff

As for the comment about Hollywood being afraid of an Asian invasion: :alcoholic:

--- groink

yieebo
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Post by yieebo » Dec 14th, '06, 07:29

groink wrote:Four words: Pink Lady and Jeff

As for the comment about Hollywood being afraid of an Asian invasion: :alcoholic:

--- groink
lol, maybe you are right about not being afraid of something they will never even give a chance to happen? what are you smoking over there on those islands? that was the whole point of my comment.

my idea of asians being successful in HollyWood doesn't include Lucy Liu playing yet another "hot asian babe" in some cheesy film. you are old enough to remember Bruce Lee getting snubbed for the part in the TV series KUNG FU right? the part he wrote for himself to play, what was that about? do you have a memory at all?

Brandon Lee would have been the first part asian mega star to hit HollyWood, but somehow he got killed because someone put a REAL BULLET in one of the "prop guns"... what do you know, he's dead. actions speak louder than words.

the asians that have migrated their careers at least partialy to the west, Jet Li, John Woo, have only mostly wasted their talents on watered down crap.

as for Japanese in HollyWood, i can't name one at all.

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Post by BOGCHI » Dec 14th, '06, 07:33

yieebo wrote:
as for Japanese in HollyWood, i can't name one at all.
Ken Watanabe?

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groink
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Post by groink » Dec 14th, '06, 08:30

yieebo is subscribing to the idea that the lack of FOB Asians in Hollywood is some sort of a conspiracy. Well, that is completely wrong.

FOB Asians not making it big in Hollywood is not a cause; it is an effect. The cause is not Hollywood either. The cause is the viewer. There is a term used to describe this issue, and that is called cultural identification. In short, cultural identification is the process where a viewer will only enjoy entertainment if it fits his taste culturally. A very large majority of Americans were not brought up with Asians in their neighborhoods, schools, churches, etc. This type of viewer may not have the stomach or the clear mind to watch Asians as if they were regular people. In other words, if he feels uncomfortable seeing and/or listening to an Asian, he will turn away. There are many pieces of evidence to prove cultural identification in Hollywood. Here are some:

Japanese tokusatsu: It is true that the original Japanese version of this show was edited to fit American culture. They kept only the original fight scenes, but re-shot everything else with American actors. Surveys prior to re-filming indicated that viewers preferred to see Western faces than Eastern. I don't have an on-line reference regarding this, but I have read this in several tokusatsu magazines.

Pink Lady and Jeff: In 1980, Americans was totally turned off by the idea that two Japanese women had to speak English phonetically. Fred Silverman thought that America would enjoy watching one of the most popular pop duos ever in Japan. The show had one of the worst ratings in American TV history - so bad it lasted only six episodes.

And many more! Remember that in Hollywood, it is all about money. If the American audience want Asians speaking English with an Asian accent, you bet your ass Hollywood would flood the market with them. But you know what? America doesn't want them!!!!!! So don't go blaming Hollywood for this problem. Go blame the American viewing society.

--- groink

Uuree34
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Post by Uuree34 » Dec 14th, '06, 23:27

Well this is a very strongly discussed subject all over Asia, so our arguing over it won't solve anything. Although there has been many developments in Asian stars playing big budget Hollywood movies in recent years, so we'll just have to wait and see who will enter the Hollywood world from Asia. Since the asian population isn't considered as minority in U.S anymore, there shouldn't be any problem as far as the movie viewers go right?
We all know that in recent years, African American actors/actresses became large in Hollywood, but for Italians they still play the stereotyped Bumbas right? But what we don't see a lot is South American, or Asian actors/actresses. There aren't many of them, or if there are most of them has language difficulties or that they fear from being rejected and not become successesful for some reasons.


I heard in a recent news that Hollywood is the #1 largest entertainment industry in the world, second largest is Japan, then Bollywood, China etc...
So far most Japanese actors/actresses and singers are pretty much satisfied with what they've achieved in Asia, so most of them don't even bother to enter Hollywood, if the opportunity comes they'll accept it but they are not desparate. Someone like Bi/Rain showing much interest and efforts is hard to find, we all know that anyone who wants to enter Hollywood will have to work very hard.

Takeshi Kaneshiro said in his recent interview that Hollywood is very spaceless and narrow for Asian actors/actresses, because the only roles they can play are the stereotyped typical Asian characters, so even though he has opportunities, he chose not to bother with Hollywood. He even said that it feels " weird" speaking English at all times. Obviously he knows what his gonna get himself into right?
I think it will take time ...

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Post by neko » Dec 15th, '06, 13:58

It's kind of hard to say cause when you think about it there aren't that many Asian actors/actresses to begin with.

Personally, I'd like to see Keiko Kitagawa come back to Hollywood. Tokyo Drift didn't do her justice.

Would be nice to see Chiaki Kuriyama come back too.

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Post by GhstDreamer » Dec 15th, '06, 20:31

neko wrote:It's kind of hard to say cause when you think about it there aren't that many Asian actors/actresses to begin with.

Personally, I'd like to see Keiko Kitagawa come back to Hollywood. Tokyo Drift didn't do her justice.

Would be nice to see Chiaki Kuriyama come back too.
Hate to disappoint you but mainstream American society shows little to no interest in viewing Japanese actresses - they garner very little popularity.Case in point - most of mainstream American society would rather watch a Korean or Chinese actress play a Japanese role in a movie. It's quite a strange phenomenon and it's something I can't explain, especially since most white Americans think every Asian look alike.

Ken Watanabe is still not as well known in the mainstream. I can go up to a bunch of people in my town and I can bet 90 something percent of them have no idea who the hell he is - they might guess he's the prime minister of Japan. However, he is gaining a lot of popularity these past years and I think he will eventually gain as much fame in the west as Chow Yun Fat because both actors elude a certain persona that makes them marketable in the West. Many other Asian actors (and if we're just specifically talking about Japanese actors like those in Johnny's E) they lack this certain charisma.

Uuree34: Many Asian actors/actresses are "satisfied" with staying in Asia because they know they can't become popular in the US. If they know they won't risk their credibility by going to the US, they would. For many artists merely being satisfied is not enough.

I just made a realization that another problem why Japanese actors/actresses are not gaining a strong foothold in Hollywood (besides the cultural identification one) is that they are taking roles in Hollywood films next to famous Hollywood actors/actresses. It's like who's going to notice and care about an unknown Japanese actor/actress next to Tom Cruise, Keanu Reeves, Nicole Kidman, Julia Roberts, etc. The only way for a Japanese actor/actress to quickly gain popularity is to be in a Japanese film that will be popular in the West - a film that mainstream viewers will pay to watch. For example take a look at Zhang Ziyi - a lot of people I know who never watched a foreign film in their life (especially anything that's Asian) went to watch Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon because they heard about the hype and out of curiousity they went to watch it. Not everyone necessarily enjoyed the film but they remembered the actors/actresses because well - there weren't any big name Hollywood stars to overshadow any of them.
However, for the life of me I can't think of any new Japanese film that can break into the American mainstream - I'm not saying they're not good or great films but it's just that I don't believe they would spark any curiousity in the American mainstream viewers to actually want to go and pay to watch a film with subtitles.

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Post by newersumm » Dec 15th, '06, 21:00

Hollywood is **** , why would japanese actors even bother going there

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Post by GhstDreamer » Dec 15th, '06, 21:41

newersumm wrote:Hollywood is **** , why would japanese actors even bother going there
Because Hollywood actors are known worldwide regardless of whether they're good actors or not? That's a pretty decent incentive. Imagine a lousy actor in Hollywood commanding at least several million dollars per film compared to a talented Asian actor and being in every magazine and entertainment news in different parts of the world. Seriously, people don't become actors so they can remain unknowns for the rest of their lives.

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Post by ainangst » Dec 21st, '06, 10:20

i'm crossposting this from my blogs to get some answers
Ninomiya Kazunari - Letters From Iwo Jima. Oscar Best Supporting Actor nominee. I wish.

Reading raves about him is overwhelming. The reviews are pouring in and the rating is amazingly high. All seem to agree that the acting is superb. While mostly focus on Watanabe greatness, the whole cast is said to be oscarworthy & Nino is the heart of the story.

and then, I read this

http://www.variety.com/awardcentral_art ... =1985&cs=1
According to a Japan Academy spokesman, talent shop Johnny & Associates, which reps the pop star-turned-thesp, rejected Kimura's nom after a week of negotiations, saying it didn't "want to put him in a position of competing with other actors for the prize"
Takuya Kimura is denied a chance to compete for the best actor category in Japan Academy Awards by the Jimusho. Why? I can't understand this. He is an idol & yet you can't deny he's also a very talented actor. It angers me. Kimura-kun, you deserves better.
Kazunari Ninomiya, who has earned some Oscar buzz with his turn as a baker-turned-solider in Clint Eastwood's "Letters From Iwo Jima," is a Johnny's talent as well. Firm has not said what it will do if he scores an Academy Award nomination.
Don't get in the way Johnny. Please don't.
Its a VARIETY article. Gawd, I'm pissed.
Can they do that? Can an artist management company do that to their artist? Denying the recognition they are suppose to get?
This is THE Kimutaku, the idol who is also an undeniable damn GOOD actor. Anything and everything with him in it sells like hot cakes yet the company denies his chances of actually getting an acting award. I don't get it. Please enlighten me.

this just bring negative buzz to Ninomiya. They done it to Takuya, what chances are there for talented little Nino? :angry:

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groink
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Post by groink » Dec 21st, '06, 10:34

ainangst wrote:Can they do that?
They sure can. From what I understand, the talent agency is responsible for submitting samples of its employees' work to be considered for nomination. If the Jimusho doesn't submit a sample of Kimutaku's work to the Academy, basically the Academy won't consider him a candidate for nomination.

Remember now that unlike the West - where the artist is his own employer and the talent agency works for HIM, the talent agencies in the East owns the talent. So if a talent agency says, "We won't allow one of employees to be considered for an award", they have every right to do so. And the artist has no right to express his displeasure - so you won't hear anything from Kimutaku I can assure you.

As for why, this is actually somewhat common practice in the geinokai. Kimutaku's reign as THE MAN in the geinokai is comparable to many other reigns, such as Tiger Woods in golf, the New York Yankees in baseball, etc. Now, most golf fans are sick of Tiger beating everyone. Same thing with the geinokai - even if Kimutaku is the most popular actor of all-time, frankly most people are SICK AND TIRED of him winning year after year. So IMHO it is a good move for the Jimusho to say, "Hey, we want one of our other employees to be considered for the award. And we'll take Kimutaku out of the running if that is what it takes!"

--- groink

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 23rd, '06, 01:35

hollywood is the world biggest racist market on the planet. Japanese don't need to work in Hollywood, Japanese company need to start limiting hollywood releases in Japan. Hollywood also have no respect for Japanese people, having all 3 Geisha play by Chinese actresses tell me a lot about those racist hollywood producers.

There are no japanese movies in america so why are the Japanese market fill with 50% hollywood made movies?

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Post by jazzmine101 » Dec 24th, '06, 03:45

Right. asians are way better *esp japanese* on their own, their stories are unique and their acting is unique too. hollywood is just so predictable, they lack twist. i rarely appreciate hollywood movies because it's like you'll know what's gonna happen next. I'd rather stick to asian films. :lol

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Post by ainangst » Dec 26th, '06, 08:11

groink wrote:
ainangst wrote:Can they do that?
They sure can. From what I understand, the talent agency is responsible for submitting samples of its employees' work to be considered for nomination. If the Jimusho doesn't submit a sample of Kimutaku's work to the Academy, basically the Academy won't consider him a candidate for nomination.

Remember now that unlike the West - where the artist is his own employer and the talent agency works for HIM, the talent agencies in the East owns the talent. So if a talent agency says, "We won't allow one of employees to be considered for an award", they have every right to do so. And the artist has no right to express his displeasure - so you won't hear anything from Kimutaku I can assure you.

As for why, this is actually somewhat common practice in the geinokai. Kimutaku's reign as THE MAN in the geinokai is comparable to many other reigns, such as Tiger Woods in golf, the New York Yankees in baseball, etc. Now, most golf fans are sick of Tiger beating everyone. Same thing with the geinokai - even if Kimutaku is the most popular actor of all-time, frankly most people are SICK AND TIRED of him winning year after year. So IMHO it is a good move for the Jimusho to say, "Hey, we want one of our other employees to be considered for the award. And we'll take Kimutaku out of the running if that is what it takes!"

--- groink
so its the Tiger Woods, Siti Nurhaliza (Malaysian singer who I think have the guiness world record on the number of awards given to her... she's good but ugh), Micheal Schumacer, syndrom is all to blame. Being superbly blessed with adoration by the mass and true talent to boot is a curse. Although from what I know the awards that Takuya won is mostly popularity award and of course the dorama Awards (which is known to have the "eeh?!" factor for awarding Kamenashi Kazuya for Best Actor in Nobuta & Takki in Taiyo no Shizumanai). I believe this is the first time Kimura-kun is being considered a nomination for the Japanese Academy Award helming a critically aclaimed film. What other movie awards did he won? I can't recall any. Its not that I want him to win in every award competition that he can get into, but the one award that he's being snubbed from competing is the award that validate him as a talented actor. Although one can say that the recognition from million (yes, millions) of fans world wide is enough, but is it so hard to get pass his perfectly styled hair, unassuming charms and charisma and see the actor in him? The Jimusho seems like doing this out of spite, its sickening. Who are the other employees competing for the award? SMAP Kusanagi Tsuyoshi for the Sinking of Japan?

steering back to the main topic, it seems like the other Johnny's boy is getting some recognition from Hollywood critics. The moonlighting pop-star, Kazunari Ninomiya terrific performance as Saigo the individualistic grunt-soldier is still in radar for a nomination. Its still a long shot to put your bets on him but acting as the main character in a Clint Eastwood "masterpiece", one couldn't ignore the talent in him. Moreover, he's cute. :p
unfortunately he is overshadowed by Ken watanabe fame. I guess Hollywood is fickel when it comes to recognizing foreign talents. They tend to stick to the one with a bigger reputation.
lets hope he'll get the nomination.

certifed Fresh 94% at RottenTomatoes : http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/letters_from_iwo_jima/

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Post by Wolfsbane68 » Dec 27th, '06, 10:32

captain-nippon wrote:hollywood is the world biggest racist market on the planet. Japanese don't need to work in Hollywood, Japanese company need to start limiting hollywood releases in Japan. Hollywood also have no respect for Japanese people, having all 3 Geisha play by Chinese actresses tell me a lot about those racist hollywood producers.

There are no japanese movies in america so why are the Japanese market fill with 50% hollywood made movies?
It's not that the Japanese won't give anyone else a run for their money when it comes to sheer racism 8) "Mixed-race" is not being flung around much these days in the US of A, unlike in a certain other country.

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Post by Eziya Minamoto » Dec 28th, '06, 02:07

ApathyEcstasy wrote:it's kind of pointless to compare the japanese film industry with hollywood...the vast difference in scale, production values, and talent pools makes it wishful thinking at best to believe that someone who's extremely well-known and appreciated in japan would be able to succeed in hollywood
Agreed.

Also, each side has their own 'typical cliche storylines', and I don't think it would work well if they mixed. Too many cultural clashes will most likely result trying to mix each side.

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wow great topic

Post by eastingfeasting » Dec 28th, '06, 02:30

First of all why do we care about Hollywood,
with China growing progressively prosperous Hollywood will become a niche for the english speaking world.

I love Japanese films, Hollywood loves japanese films, all of it from the 60s black n white samurai with Zen wisdoms theme and some with great universial acting appeal like the Hidden Fortress.
from the 70s-till now Japanese has become semi irrellevant just as the thriving French movies used to be.

The fact that asian tried too hard to impress a white audiences make me cringe in pain
if i see another jackie chan, william hung, or your stereotypical Lucy Liu i'm going to move back to the motherland.

you just dont see the asians with a touch of gloss that you guys have post pics in here, the ones with wide eyes, dimple smiles, who actually is pretty
and hollywood should have shown or take the effort to invest/guide their careers,
but thank god for chinese media if they give us more zhang yiyi, and Liu Yi Fei, i'm praying that Hollywood like the french movie industry will be come irrellevant too.

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Post by Uuree34 » Dec 28th, '06, 11:30

Well I agree, and like I said since Japan is second biggest industry when it comes to entertainment business, most Japanese and infact many other Asian actors/actresses don't even bother about Hollywood. We as fans and viewers tend to want more from them, wishing to see more Asian actors/actresses in big budget Hollywood projects. However, in recent years Chinese, Korean, and Japanese film industries have changed it's old Samurai, Martial arts era, and moved on to different fields and making a BIG name for themselves. For example : HK musical Confessions of Pain, supposedly a biggest musical in Asian entertainment industry market, such as that Japanese big budget movie when Japan Sinks. So we should NOT even compare Asian, and US entertainment industries. It just proved that India is not the only place on Earth where they sing and dance in every movie, Chinese people can sing and dance, whereas Japan can make a far better movie than DAY AFTER TOMMOROW ( comparing Day After Tommorow with Japan Sink), Korea can make a hit war epic such as Taegukki where it touches our soul and heart in different level and relates to all of our Asian blood lines, than Saving Private Ryan.

So I truly believe that I can not compare Asian entertainment industry to Hollywood, and I really don't mind if Asian actors/actresses are playing a role of stereotyped Asian roles in movie, but to be honest I hate to see them doing that to themselves. Why bother about Hollywood? Asia is powerful, and we have BILLIONS of movie viewers too, so does it really matter whether Hollywood recognizes the talents of Asian actors/actresses ?

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Post by Kanin » Dec 28th, '06, 23:25

When thinking Hollywood I don't exactly think Japanese environment for Japanese actors and actresses. It's more like fast cars and lots of explosions and a swift mouth. It's completely different to what I would like to watch and very far away from JDrama. Therefor is Hollywood even a goal other than for money for anyone? To me, no.

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Post by groink » Dec 29th, '06, 07:22

The fact of the matter is that Japanese TV does not encourage great acting. And neither do the people watching the dramas. If they did, you would see the talent agencies invest a lot more time and expense to get their employees to focus on their acting. But no... a little bit of learning to read lines, a little bit of learning how to sing, a little bit of dancing tips... And the rest of the time is spent working these employees to the bone with something every day, 365 days a year. For most members of the geinokai, very little time watching their own works and evaluating themselves, as many people have indicated in other topics. Bottom line, just being an idol within Japan is good enough for most geinojins. If a given artist is anywhere near interested in being a serious actor, he should give up his other activities and focus solely on acting.

Whether any of you believe it or not, the West - including Hollywood and its movie fans - put a whole lot of weight on great acting. And even if the acting wasn't that great, the movie would still reach hundreds more markets than even the largest Japanese movie studio. So for a geinojin like Watanabe Ken who is a serious actor, the West offers two things Japan doesn't have: fans all over the world who appreciate great acting, and the movies that will be shown to tens of millions of people all across the world.

THAT is why certain geinojin are driven to make it in the West. Look at Fujiwara Norika: although most of you think she is a total joke, she is one driven actress. Her ultimate goal for her career was to be a Bond girl. I mean, that's a HUGE goal for a geinojin. Although it is highly unlikely she ever will be one, she did the right things in preparation for this achievement: she learned to speak English well, she didn't spread herself thin and take her focus off her acting like taking on a singing career, she didn't try taking on really lame drama projects, and she's chosen the right scripts to help her image as a serious actress. On top of that, she's working with a talent agency that features no politics and isn't concerned about cranking out idols like OSCAR Promotions.

--- groink

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 13:48

groink wrote:The fact of the matter is that Japanese TV does not encourage great acting. And neither do the people watching the dramas. If they did, you would see the talent agencies invest a lot more time and expense to get their employees to focus on their acting. But no... a little bit of learning to read lines, a little bit of learning how to sing, a little bit of dancing tips... And the rest of the time is spent working these employees to the bone with something every day, 365 days a year. For most members of the geinokai, very little time watching their own works and evaluating themselves, as many people have indicated in other topics. Bottom line, just being an idol within Japan is good enough for most geinojins. If a given artist is anywhere near interested in being a serious actor, he should give up his other activities and focus solely on acting.
I take this for true. But. I wouldn't agree to say that just because it's acting coming from JDrama/KDrama/CDrama it means bad acting. Or just because many come from cross careers such as model or singning it automatically means they can't act. Just as I wouldn't believe 'good' acting was necessarily developed attending acting courses. Casting relative unrecognized actors/actresses for a Wooden Allen movie works just perfect. Big blockbuster movies aka Hollywood productions don't mean good acting. To me it's more of exellent punchliners with 'respected' images.

Tom Cruise's earlier works has let him excel in a much higher degree as an actor than his recent ones. Which leads to another factor. It's not only acting that produces the total effect as it also requires a decent genuine script and frankly that is very scarce in Hollywood. For most times I don't really care if the actors or actresses have taken numerous acting classes from prestigeous institutions if the outcoming effect looks like 'Joey' or 'Star Wars'. What Hollywood productions really have forgotten is how to convey feelings. It's something JDrama is really good at.

And well, with or without good or bad actors/actresses the effect beats the he!! out of anything else. I have tried to watch and understand big successes like Prison break, Lost, Las Vegas or CSI... but they all fail to captivate. As it is for now, if it wasn't for the money and the exposure, I don't see any reason.

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 29th, '06, 15:58

It's not that the Japanese won't give anyone else a run for their money when it comes to sheer racism Cool "Mixed-race" is not being flung around much these days in the US of A, unlike in a certain other country.
I don't think Japan has a Michael Richards or Mel Gibsons...Japanese entertainment industry focus on the japanese audiences, considering 99% of the population are Japanese. Did you see the movie Gang of New York? how many times did the work Chink were used?
The fact that asian tried too hard to impress a white audiences make me cringe in pain
PROOF IT.
if i see another jackie chan, william hung, or your stereotypical Lucy Liu i'm going to move back to the motherland.
There's JET LI. Lucy Liu is a Chinese/American actress.

Hollywood loves japanese films
WRONG, I don't see any Japanese release at ALL? DO you? Hollywood LOVES Japanese ideas though...

The fact of the matter is that Japanese TV does not encourage great acting. And neither do the people watching the dramas. If they did, you would see the talent agencies invest a lot more time and expense to get their employees to focus on their acting. But no... a little bit of learning to read lines, a little bit of learning how to sing, a little bit of dancing tips... And the rest of the time is spent working these employees to the bone with something every day, 365 days a year. For most members of the geinokai, very little time watching their own works and evaluating themselves, as many people have indicated in other topics. Bottom line, just being an idol within Japan is good enough for most geinojins. If a given artist is anywhere near interested in being a serious actor, he should give up his other activities and focus solely on acting.
I do agree with you on this matter. Hollywood produce great dramas and movies...The hollywood system are better than the Japanese system. Japanese studios invest more money in dramas than they do in movies...
Whether any of you believe it or not, the West - including Hollywood and its movie fans - put a whole lot of weight on great acting. And even if the acting wasn't that great, the movie would still reach hundreds more markets than even the largest Japanese movie studio. So for a geinojin like Watanabe Ken who is a serious actor, the West offers two things Japan doesn't have: fans all over the world who appreciate great acting, and the movies that will be shown to tens of millions of people all across the world.
I have to disagree with you. Hollywood is using the american system to CHEAT and practice UNFAIR TRADE with Japan or Asian countries. 50% of the movies release in Japan are Hollywood, how many movies release in America are Japanese?

Do you think a movie like Japan Sink or Death Note will get a American release? We all know how disney repeatedly withheld Miyazaki Spirted Away because it was getting TOO popular., they don't want a japanese animated movie to complete with their owe animations.. OR how MIRAMAX withheld JET LI HERO for 3 years before releasing it in America.

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Post by mizune » Dec 29th, '06, 16:28

captain-nippon wrote: I have to disagree with you. Hollywood is using the american system to CHEAT and practice UNFAIR TRADE with Japan or Asian countries.
Huh? Dude, that's just pure conjecture and totally unfounded. As you said before, "Prove it!"
On second thought, don't prove it, because I'm sure it either won't be anything legitimate or will just drag this out longer than it is realy worth. :fear:
Do you think a movie like Japan Sink or Death Note will get a American release? We all know how disney repeatedly withheld Miyazaki Spirted Away because it was getting TOO popular., they don't want a japanese animated movie to complete with their owe animations.. OR how MIRAMAX withheld JET LI HERO for 3 years before releasing it in America.
I'm pretty sure Disney released Miyazaki's Spirited Away the same year it hit theatres in Japan. If you meant whether or not it went into wide release is probably more due to the fact that foreign movies (ANY foreign movie) in the US just does not have a history of doing well in wide release. Frankly, the majority of the US population does not seem interested in reading subtitles, and a dubbed release obviously takes some additional time and effort in post-production work. And then there's the thing about Spirited Away being so immersed with Japanese culture and folklore -- much more than virtually any other Miyazaki work -- that a lot of the references may not be recognized and appreciated by a mainstream foreign audience.

I'm no expert, but honestly, it isn't until very recently that Japanese films have been palatable to the mainstream audience. Heck, even Japanese people didn't really watch Japanese films because they were more "cult-oriented" (e.g. horror, monster, art) than aiming for mass appeal. Most of the Japanese people I know don't like Japanese cinema for that very fact. Japanese cinema wanted to differentiate themselves from Hollywood and pretty much set out to create it's own artistic style. They didn't build up a reputation for creating quiet and minimalist from just one or two films. There was a whole decade or two of it, and to most people it was just boring. So people watched Hollywood exports (and television - Japanese television productions are a lot of times more interesting than the cinema output, particularly in the stylistic era of cinema that coincides with the golden era of Jdramas).

As for HERO, I don't know what went on there, but I'd assume contractual disagreements would be one reason for delaying a release. The other would be in planning the release schedule of movies to maximize their profits. Of course they don't want to compete with their own releases because they'd be cannibalizing their own audience instead of getting the most money out of their investments. The same can be said of any production business who wants to stay around for long.

I'm not trying to be apologetic or make excuses for everything, but not everything is a consipiracy, you know. :roll

EDIT: How did we get this off-topic anyways? :scratch:

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Post by ninjavsself » Dec 29th, '06, 17:05

To the person who said Kubozuka Yosuke, I commend you. That is one fine actor and should be in more productions.

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hey y'all

Post by mun78 » Dec 29th, '06, 17:18

I very much agree with you. There is a great difference between the cultures in Japan and America and it would be incredibly difficult for someone like Yamashita Tomohisa to make it in Hollywood.

I've watched both kinds of movies and the styles of acting are very different. America tends to not concentrate on the little things (this is just a generalization not definite) and Japan tends to do this. If you've ever watched an American drama, like ER or maybe something else, you know the drama is quick paced, finish your lines, do something spectacular so everyone will watch the drama the next week. With Asian dramas, it's take your time, show something spectacular like maybe a fight, build on that something that is spectacular, and etc. I just find that you need more patience with Asian dramas and that it is something that American people will find hard to accept.

I do agree with the guy that previously wrote that Japan tends to concentrate more on the jdramas than the movies. When I watch a Japanese movie, and I haven't watched many but I have watched recent ones, the quality tends to be lower than that of a japanese drama, even the way the video looks. The videos of Jdramas look much clearer and you don't hear alot of buzz about Japanese movies.

The fact that these people in talent agencies, do everything like singing, acting, and whatever else bothers me. Who would of thought Haruka Ayase, girl who played in Tattta Hitotsu no Koi, was a singer. It sounds a little forced to me instead of being talented? And the fact of the matter is, they only do a few songs and it's done, so it's like a rip-off. Lol. I'd rather listen to an actual music artist than someone who's doing it because their talent agency said so lol.

Someone tell me if I'm wrong , because I've only had a little experience in the Japanese entertainment market. :scratch: The last thing I would like to say is, who cares about Hollywood. Asia has their own resources and their own creativity. They've already proven to create quality dramas and movies. America has the largest economy in the world (this isn't boasting either), Japan has the second largest economy. Everyone can do their own thing. lol.

For Canadians only: Why the heck don't we have asian dramas or movies playing on our big screens with subtitles lol. We are a multicultural country and I hate watching movies that have to be approved by America before we see them. I'm thinking that it's because most of our big screens are American owned. :glare:

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 29th, '06, 17:21

Huh? Dude, that's just pure conjecture and totally unfounded. As you said before, "Prove it!"
here's the prove for the last 20 years

http://web-japan.org/stat/stats/20LES43.html

DO YOU SEE THE SALES OF Foreign Films IN Japan? This year alone, 50% of the movies release in Japan are from Hollywood, how many japanese movies are release in America this year? Hollywood sales are half of the japanese box office...

Do you think it's FAIR that hollywood released thousands of films in the last 20 years and making BILLIONS off Japanese, while japnese studios are not even given a chance to release their movies in america?

Let me ask you again, do you think it's FAIR for you to come to my HOUSE and eat my FOODS, but i can't come to house and eat your FOODS?

I am going to TAKE a stab in the dark and say that there has never been a National release of a Japanese LIVE movie in America in the last 20 years...
On second thought, don't prove it, because I'm sure it either won't be anything legitimate or will just drag this out longer than it is realy worth.
That's just stupid, Why did you even ask the question in the first place?
I'm pretty sure Disney released Miyazaki's Spirited Away the same year it hit theatres in Japan. If you meant whether or not it went into wide release is probably more due to the fact that foreign movies (ANY foreign movie) in the US just does not have a history of doing well in wide release. Frankly, the majority of the US population does not seem interested in reading subtitles,
Mel Gibson Passion of the Christ made over 200 millions, trust me it wasn't in english...Crunching Tiger Hidder Dragon made over $100 millions, Jet Li hero made over $50, Jet Li Fearless made over $30 millions, All have english subtitles, all are Chinese TOO.

You should do your search MORE and stop being childish. Spirited Away was very successful, it had a 1 000 screens releases...after the release weekend, movie theaters wants more FILMS, disney turn them all DOWN. After Spirited Away won the ascar, Disney re-release the movie for 1 week with NO PROMOTION as all. Did Howl's Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke even get a national release? I don't think SO...Oh I remember seeing Miyazake crying on TV because Disney cut up his movies...

As for HERO, I don't know what went on there, but I'd assume contractual disagreements would be one reason for delaying a release. The other would be in planning the release schedule of movies to maximize their profits.
IF YOU DON"T KNOW, than why do you ASSUME there was a contractual disagreements? you're defencing hollywood because you're an american. what a ridiculous thing to do...THERE WAS NO contractual disagreements...people like you don't see anything wrong with your country do you? America don't do any EVIL...What a ridiculous sentiment.
Of course they don't want to compete with their own releases because they'd be cannibalizing their own audience instead of getting the most money out of their investments. The same can be said of any production business who wants to stay around for long.
So why are 50% of movies release in Japan are hollywood. Japanese are fooliness because they let the american exports to complete with the domestic. That could explain why japanese films are making less making money....

So let me ask you this very simple Question? When will we see Death NOTE get an america release? Trust me Death Note has nothing to do with Japanese culture...Death Note 1 made $20 million, death Note 2 made $40 millions. It's was a huge success....

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Post by Kanin » Dec 29th, '06, 18:28

captain-nippon wrote: After Spirited Away won the ascar, Disney re-release the movie for 1 week with NO PROMOTION as all. Did Howl's Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke even get a national release? I don't think SO...Oh I remember seeing Miyazake crying on TV because Disney cut up his movies...
Ugh I didn't know, was it that bad?

captain-nippon wrote: When will we see Death NOTE get an america release? Trust Death Note has nothing to do with Japanese culture...Death Note 1 made $20 million, death Note 2 made $40 millions. It's was a huge success....
Yeah right. Try a re-make. :lol

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Post by mizune » Dec 30th, '06, 01:46

captain-nippon wrote: stuff
I knew I shouldn't have replied.
All your "proof" is always based on conjecture stemming from completely unrelated/irrelevant data sets. Where does your proof say anythng about unfair trade practice? You're just pulling random conclusions out of the air again.

Obviously the point that the Japanese made movies that nobody wanted to see (not even the domestic population) for a couple of decades has nothing to do with anything either....

Anyhow, this argument isn't even worth making an argument, so... :roll
Man, you really gotta lighten up and stop throwing out all this random conspiracy theory stuff... :crazy:

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 30th, '06, 04:11

I knew I shouldn't have replied.
All your "proof" is always based on conjecture stemming from completely unrelated/irrelevant data sets. Where does your proof say anythng about unfair trade practice? You're just pulling random conclusions out of the air again.
conjecture stemming? that's the funniest thing I heard. My informations are facts and TRUE. I am NOT making any of this up.

Here's the article from the Financial Times, an America newspaper and since people like you don't seem to recognize any FACTS for asia. I am sure you can't deny facts from your owe people.

http://www.ftd.de/karriere_management/b ... 44063.html
For barring a sudden explosion of audience interest in Casino Royale, the current year will have been the first since 1985 in which Japanese films outdid foreign imports at the box office.
The four largest film distribution companies in Japan have confirmed that the domestic industry generated 51 per cent of the Y161bn box office revenues logged so far this year.
For the First time in 20 years japanese studios have 51% of the Japan box office. I wonder where the other 49% belongs too?
Although we don't yet know whether Japanese movies will keep this up for another year, Hollywood movies are in a slump, and from now on I am certain the box office gap between domestic films and imports will always be small.
The success of Japanese films marks a sharp recovery from the late 1990s. Throughout most of the 1980s, the combined box office revenues of Japanese films tended to lag behind those of foreign imports by about Y10bn. By the end of 1998, Hollywood outpaced the domestic industry by nearly Y40bn.

Here's the Japanese box office for Dec 17/06

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/japan ... =50&p=.htm

5 of the 10 movies are from hollywood...

Here's the american box office dec 17/06

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/char ... -17&p=.htm

Can you tell me how many movies are Japanese? NOT ONE.

since you don't seem to understand the word UNFAIR. I will rest my case.
Obviously the point that the Japanese made movies that nobody wanted to see
That's because japanese studios have no money to produce high value productions. They spends most of their money on Drama. However, things are looking goods this year, movies like Yamato, Japan Sink and Death Note are all very success in Japan. they all made over $40 millllion USD in Japan.

I am not saying that america should let every japanese movie made release in america, but the successful movies should be allow to release in america so the japanese studios can make a little more money to increase their productions for future projects.

Anyhow, this argument isn't even worth making an argument, so... Roll Eyes
Man, you really gotta lighten up and stop throwing out all this random conspiracy theory stuff...
You need to get an educations....LOTS OF IT. Since you REALLY don't know what you're TAlking about...and yes asians subtitles movies do make money in america.

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Post by mizune » Dec 30th, '06, 04:24

^ What's ironic is that the first article you linked basically confirms what I was saying. You just don't realize it. :lol
But whatever floats your boat, man... :roll

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 30th, '06, 04:25

Ugh I didn't know, was it that bad?
Disney release the movie in September 2/.02 for 714 screens and it was an Sell out in almost every theaters, they also wanted more FILMS for more screens. Disney turn them all down and refuse to extend the screens count to 2000. Disney promise to re release the movie if Spirited Away won and oscar and it did. Disney re release the movie for 1 week without any promotions. Anyway, spirited away made over 10 million USD and made $260 millions in Japan.
Yeah right. Try a re-make.
and people like mizune will talk about how an american blockbuster are being watch all over the world and make all kind of money, but a japanese blockbuster will see only see japan and asia release....

What a ridiculous sentiment these people have...

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 30th, '06, 04:29

^ What's ironic is that the first article you linked basically confirms what I was saying. You just don't realize it. Laugh
But whatever floats your boat, man... Roll Eyes

sorry, I had no idea you suffer of Dential disorder...That could explain the lack comprehension...or the ability to READ.... :wub:

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Post by mizune » Dec 30th, '06, 04:46

:lol
captain-nippon:
go ahead and rant all you want, but be careful in how you rant and who you target it at, because i may be forced to finally hit the ban button. to be honest, i couldn't care less about what you want to say about me, but if you genuinely start to insult and bug other people again, i'll be forced to ban. you've been warned about it before, and i think you can consider this your last fair warning again...

anyhow, i'm going to bed now...
we'll see how things shape up in the morning. :pray:
Last edited by mizune on Dec 30th, '06, 04:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 30th, '06, 04:55

mizune wrote:
If you meant whether or not it went into wide release is probably more due to the fact that foreign movies (ANY foreign movie) in the US just does not have a history of doing well in wide release. Frankly, the majority of the US population does not seem interested in reading subtitles, and a dubbed release obviously takes some additional time and effort in post-production work
conjecture stemming anyone?

captain-nippon wrote:
Mel Gibson Passion of the Christ made over 200 millions, trust me it wasn't in english...Crunching Tiger Hidder Dragon made over $100 millions, Jet Li hero made over $50, Jet Li Fearless made over $30 millions, All have english subtitles, all are Chinese TOO.
Could you please explain to me how these english subtitles movies made money in America?

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Post by mizune » Dec 30th, '06, 05:02

^ just making sure you see it...
please read my post above yours...

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 30th, '06, 05:48

Mizune:

there's no needs to u to reply at all. It's final. I think we all had enough of ya non sense and meaningless conjecture stemming....and u can't even answer a simple question.

u should read the art of wars by Sun Tzu... it's a great READ...










:wub: :wub:

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Post by imamess » Dec 31st, '06, 04:37

captain-nippon wrote: Mel Gibson Passion of the Christ made over 200 millions, trust me it wasn't in english...Crunching Tiger Hidder Dragon made over $100 millions, Jet Li hero made over $50, Jet Li Fearless made over $30 millions, All have english subtitles, all are Chinese TOO. ?
Passion of the Christ + Christian country. It's pretty simple to see. When Passion came out I was living in a very Dutch Christian Reform-heavy area, and even chruches were showing the movie. It's not just the subject matter, but it sensationalized the crucifiction. It played on people's faith and scared them into being more faithful. The nature of the movie made people want to see it, and the relentless press coverge also helped. But Mel's recent movie, Apocolypto, which is in Mayan subbed in English is not doing nearly as well. It's made about $40 mil to date, which is nothing considering last week's #1 made $80 mil its opening weekend.

Jet Li is known in America. He has done English-language movies with popular American stars. (Romeo Must Die, Kiss the Dragon, The One, Unleased, Cradle to the Grave) That is what sells movies. In fact, I remember Hero coming out just after the first Kill Bill and they used Tarantino's role in getting it released here in the previews.

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon became popular because, in most American's eyes, the action was similar to the recent film, The Matrix. Ang Lee is also a known director, so that got people who are more into films in the theater. It was also a great, groundbreaking, action movie. Sometimes when the critics make enough noise, the people listen.

Those are just four movies out of how many thousands? Hollywood is a business that doesn't take chances. They won't release something to thousands of theaters until they screen test the snot out of it and make sure their target audience is pleased. It's not fair and it's not meant to be fair. If a multi-billion dollar industry tried to be fair and give everyone a chance, they'd be considered Communist (and we all know how much America loves Communism).

Plus, Americans are uncomfortable about anything foreign (I've lived in the Midwest my whole life, I see or hear it almost daily). Memories of a Geisha bombed because the content was too different for American audiences, despite production from Steven Speilberg and direction by an Oscar-winning director. Seeing how that did, studios are probably nervous to release something even with somewhat familiar stars (like Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Zi Yi) that shows an intimate part of a different culture.

It's just a mindset that is very hard to change. It sucks because it gives those of us who want to see something different little chance to do so. It's just easier for them to make money off something they know will work.

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Post by captain-nippon » Dec 31st, '06, 09:53

imamess, thanks for the intelligent response. Unlike someone I know...

I do agree with some of the thing you say and disagree with the rest.

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was successful because it was a good all around movie. The actions can only get you so much. The matrix is a product of HK actions film, nothing american about it. Those kind of actions comes by the thousands in the last 20 years. Bottle line CTHD was a good movie. People went to see good movie.

anyway, My whole points the good asians movies are very successful in america. To say that american don't watch subtitles movies are full of crap.
Those are just four movies out of how many thousands?
but how many of them were actually release in America? How many asian films had a national release in America this year? Jet Li Fearless are probably the only one i can think of that made over $25 millions. Compared to the hundredths Hollywood release in asia.
Hollywood is a business that doesn't take chances.
You're wrong, Hollywood take more chance than another countries...that's why hollywood have the $200 million Budget. That's why dreamwork studio went out of business because they weren't making any money.
They won't release something to thousands of theaters until they screen test the snot out of it and make sure their target audience is pleased.
I hope you're not suggesting that in the last 6 years american audiences are only please with 4 asian movies.....That's silly and you know it. In facts Hollywood are dying for asian movies. How many REMAKE of Asian movies did hollywood do in the last 4 years? The newest is of course Inferno Affair, AKA The Departed........................
It's not fair and it's not meant to be fair. If a multi-billion dollar industry tried to be fair and give everyone a chance, they'd be considered Communist (and we all know how much America loves Communism).
you got your facts twisted for some reason, GIVING everyone a chance, IT"S CALLED FREE MARKET and Capitalism. Communist is what Hollywood are DOING.
Plus, Americans are uncomfortable about anything foreign
They're RACIST? Anything white and english is OK but any else is NOT. That's RACIST.
memories of a Geisha bombed because the content was too different for American audiences,
again, that's just excuse for someone to say an asian oriented movie failed. The reason why this movie bombed was because it sucks. It had nothing to do with Asian culture in the movie. If that were true all the other asians movie like CTHD and HERO should have FAILED TO. Remember this movie had Steven Speilberg and direction by an Oscar-winning director on it shoulders. Which is a lot more than I can say for Tarantino presents HERO. of course Hero made over $50 millions.

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Post by cool_drama » Dec 31st, '06, 10:43

@captain-nippon

Just like you don't agree with anyone...there could be a high possibility that no one agrees with you also.

Just like you have an opinion, other people do also.

As human beings I know egocentric thinking is hard to avoid, but try to control it.

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Post by imamess » Dec 31st, '06, 18:19

To say that american don't watch subtitles movies are full of crap.
It's really hard to be saying all this stuff and not be American. You don't know the culture. I had several friends who saw Hero and came back saying something like: It was cool, but I didn't know it was subtitled. You're giving some people way too much credit. It's not a matter of Asian, it's a matter that people want to be entertained when they watch a movie. When Crouching Tiger came to video around me there were AT LEAST TWICE the amount of dubbed versions.
You're wrong, Hollywood take more chance than another countries...that's why hollywood have the $200 million Budget. That's why dreamwork studio went out of business because they weren't making any money.
They have a $200 million budget because they know people likw big budget action movies with someone like Tom Cruise. It's not a risk at all, and it gets screen tested a lot to make sure their 18-24 male demographic likes it. Spiderman 3 cost $250 million to make, the second was $200, and the first was only (ha) $130 million. They double the budget between the first two movies because the first one grossed over $800 million worldwide. They don't just throw a ton of money at an idea unless they have a damn good hunch that it's going to make them tons of money.

Little Miss Sunshine is something quite different, and has recieved tons of critical acclaim. It was made by Fox Searchlight, which is known for more independant-minded releases. It cost $8 million to make, but it's nominated for a golden globe for best picture. It also didn't get a nation-wide release until critics really began making noise. So even American movies don't always get a chance.
hope you're not suggesting that in the last 6 years american audiences are only please with 4 asian movies.....That's silly and you know it. In facts Hollywood are dying for asian movies. How many REMAKE of Asian movies did hollywood do in the last 4 years?
They do remakes because there is more proof that English language movies make more money. They change things they feel that their audience will like. The female lead in the Ringu was kinda a wimp. In the American version, The Ring, she was very headstrong. The guy was the one kinda fumbling around. A bunch of executives watched it and liked it, but wanted to change a few things for their audience. So they did, and they can do this because there is a demand for American movies both here and abroad.

Don't tell me what I know is and isn't silly. You're clearly not an American, and have no idea what most of the people in this country think. I have never once called your opinion silly, and I'm trying to give you facts to show you that Hollywood is an old machine that opperates on money and name recognition.
you got your facts twisted for some reason, GIVING everyone a chance, IT"S CALLED FREE MARKET and Capitalism. Communist is what Hollywood are DOING.
What Hollywood is doing is no where near Communism. They give a chance to the movies they think will make the most money. Look up Communism again before you try to label something as being such. A free market economy is set up on supply and demand. There has been little demand for Asian films other than Martial Arts and Horror, and even then it's a cult following that gives those movies success.
again, that's just excuse for someone to say an asian oriented movie failed. The reason why this movie bombed was because it sucks. It had nothing to do with Asian culture in the movie. If that were true all the other asians movie like CTHD and HERO should have FAILED TO. Remember this movie had Steven Speilberg and direction by an Oscar-winning director on it shoulders. Which is a lot more than I can say for Tarantino presents HERO. of course Hero made over $50 millions.
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Hero are billed as action movies. People watch them for the fighting, not the culture. Putting Tarantino's name on Hero after Kill Bill did well was probably just as big as Speilburg and Rob Marshall. Tarantino is a known martial arts movie buff, and so is the audience he's selling to knows that. Plus, as I mentioned before Jet Li is known in America for martial arts films. Probably almost as well as Jackie Chan.

This can't just be an arguement about Asian films, either. You can't just give a leg up to Asian films and not European films. Even good British films don't get released here, and if they do it's limited. It's the American attitude of being number 1, which is not going to change any time soon. There are all the arguements in the world, but it boils down to something within the culture here that really has to be experienced to understand.

There, I'm giving as much reason as I can... :sweat:

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Post by groink » Dec 31st, '06, 21:53

I told you guys... Don't feed captain troll....

--- groink

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Post by silvermegami » Dec 31st, '06, 23:26

Tadanobu Asano all the way!! ^__^;; I've been addicted to his films. He's very indie, but I'd love to see him act in America!

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Post by imamess » Jan 1st, '07, 00:22

groink wrote:I told you guys... Don't feed captain troll....

--- groink
shh...i'm listening to reason.

sometimes it's hard to resist. :goggle:

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Post by captain-nippon » Jan 3rd, '07, 11:35

I had several friends who saw Hero and came back saying something like: It was cool, but I didn't know it was subtitled. You're giving some people way too much credit. It's not a matter of Asian,
And that's a bad thing because it's Subbed. The fact that Hero made over 53 millions USD and over $123 millions International. The movie only cost $31 millions to produce. Hero was very successful in very market. Hero made more money than Kiss of the Dragon, and The One. Both are English. In FACT Hero made twist as much as Unleashed Did.

Your defense don't make any sense at all. First you say that English subtitles movie don't make money, HERO and CTHD did made money. Than you say oh people didn't know it was in ENGLISH SUBBED. Even Kung Fu Hustle made $17 millions in America and $100 millions Internationally.
Memories of a Geisha bombed because the content was too different for American audiences, despite production from Steven Speilberg and direction by an Oscar-winning director.
This is why you are not any sense. Memories of a Geisha is actually a LOT more MODERN that CTHD, it's was set in the 1930's Japan as oppose to 18 century China. For any reason CTHD should be a lot more ALIENATED to the american auidences than Memories of a Geisha. People were FLYING in CTHD and jumping on WATER, and somehow this movie was more acceptable than a slave girl becoming a Geisha is too different for the american audiences?


The FACT IS English subtitles DO MAKE MONEY in AMerica. You are making sound like it's a BAD thing when they do make money. I would rather you say yes they do, and we should have more of it.
When Crouching Tiger came to video around me there were AT LEAST TWICE the amount of dubbed versions.
that still doesn't explain why it made $123 million USD in the box office? And now you're making is sound like it's really bad thing to mave English subtitles in america. The DVD's has multiple tracks.
They have a $200 million budget because they know people likw big budget action movies with someone like Tom Cruise.
Ever heard of the movie called Waterworld by Kevin Costner, it's costed 175 millions to produce and made $88 millions. BOMBED. Superman cost $270, it's made $200, it's clear didn't make the 350-400 Warners were hoping for. AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS $110 millions, it made 24 millions.

Superman did fairly well in america, even though it clearly LOST big money. WARNERS only get 45% of the box office sales, that's $90 millions coming back on $270 millions investment. LUCKY for the warners superman also made $190 million worldwide. Superman made Worldwide sales of $391 million. Warners did LOSE millions in Superman.

Worldwide Sales SAVE Warners Bros Studio, NOW do you see how important it is to have a international releases? Do you think a movie like Japan Sink which cost around $ 25 millions, would have the opportunity to get some of the investment back if it FAILED in japan? CLEARLY NOT...
They do remakes because there is more proof that English language movies make more money. They change things they feel that their audience will like.
Yes, I do agree with you that a remake of asian movie in American PEOPLE would make more money. That's not good for the asian producers because they wouldn't be making any money once the movie is release in america. They only money they'll get are the purchasing rights of the movie...
What Hollywood is doing is no where near Communism. They give a chance to the movies they think will make the most money.
HOLLYWOOD ARE Communism.

Communism: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

So tell me how many asian or french movies are out in America? right Now?

If a multi-billion dollar industry tried to be fair and give everyone a chance, they'd be considered Communist (and we all know how much America loves Communism).
Now you're accursing countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, German and FRENCE Communist country? because they allow american made movies in their countries...and a country don't isn't? Even China release MORE AMERICAN MOVIES in China than hollywood do chinese movies in america.

something we should all THINK ABOUT...
Last edited by captain-nippon on Jan 3rd, '07, 11:50, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by captain-nippon » Jan 3rd, '07, 11:39

Tadanobu Asano all the way!! ^__^;; I've been addicted to his films. He's very indie, but I'd love to see him act in America!
I love him in Ichi and ZATOICHI. Asano-san should best produce more GOOD Japanese films.

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Post by imamess » Jan 4th, '07, 02:25

HOLLYWOOD ARE Communism.

Communism: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

So tell me how many asian or french movies are out in America? right Now?
Exactly, but since when is Hollywood a government agency? I was making a point based on the fact that any rules that are made to restrict choice are generally called communist (in ideal, especially when it's made to even the playing field) in America. Maybe the communist remark was a bit facetious.

It's not worth arguing with someone who can't even understand the concept of Communism in its restriction on a free market driven by supply and demand. A business doing so is more of monopoly, but there are quite a few studios making the same decision.

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Post by captain-nippon » Jan 4th, '07, 07:48

Exactly, but since when is Hollywood a government agency? I was making a point based on the fact that any rules that are made to restrict choice are generally called communist (in ideal, especially when it's made to even the playing field) in America. Maybe the communist remark was a bit facetious.

It's not worth arguing with someone who can't even understand the concept of Communism in its restriction on a free market driven by supply and demand. A business doing so is more of monopoly, but there are quite a few studios making the same decision.
I had no idea we were even arguing at all. I thought we were just exchanging our idealism. :roll

You see the problem with you is that you don't know what you're saying.
imamess Quote:
If a multi-billion dollar industry tried to be fair and give everyone a chance, they'd be considered Communist (and we all know how much America loves Communism).
You just accursed Japan, South Korea, Frence and Germany being Communist countries. They're NOT Communist at ALL....They all release american movies and help hollywood studios regain their investments when clearly a movie like Superman Returns would have not make it money back from America alone.

Since when in ROME did Communist country try to be Fair on anything or anyone? Can you tell me? When? :roll
free market driven by supply and demand
Clearly, you don't know what that means do you? How many asian movies were release in the last 6 years and how many of them MADE MONEY...ALMOST everyone since one of them do made money in AMERICA. So why hasn't the supply increase of asian movies in america?

It's because hollywood studios don't really want to release them in america because that were endanger the america studios profits. The last thing hollywood studios wants to do is endanger their profits by creating the demand of asian movies, therefore increase asian productions are VALUES.

An Asian movies will probably never make $200 millions in the USA, but 50-100 millions was achievable.

This year 49% of the box office sales in Japan are Hollywood movies and 51% Japanese made.

CLEARLY that is not the case in America...HOLLWYOOD has total control of the movies industry in america....

Since you ask me what does Communism mean? l'lI tell you again?
Communism: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

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Post by imamess » Jan 4th, '07, 16:09

it's a gap of logic. just because american movies make money in japan doesn't mean that japanese movies will make the same money in america. period. end of story. YOUR LOGIC DOESN'T WORK. a handful of martial arts movies (most with a star who has been in english language movies) make reasonable money. that's it. if all jet li's imports made $100, they'd just import more of those. it doesn't prove a demand for asian films in general. there's genres that have audiences, and you're making generalizations about an entire culture that you are not a part of.

and don't tell someone they don't know what they're saying. it's insulting. i know perfectly well what i'm saying, and you're just putting words in my mouth. i never called a country communist. i said if american studios gave a certain country's films an advantage over its own in the interest of being fair, they'd be called communist.

it's like hitting a wall trying to explain some of this. :sweat:

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Post by melonyhappy » Jan 9th, '07, 03:57

The guy who plays Hiro in Heroes!...

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Post by groink » Jan 9th, '07, 04:23

I just got through browsing through YouTube. And it just proved my overall thesis I talked about early on in this topic, in which the U.S. in general suffers from cultural identification and the inability to deal with it. For review, most of America were never brought up around Asians - especially Eastern Asians. Therefore, most Americans are not comfortable watching Asians in entertainment because they're not used to seeing them. And that's why Hollywood isn't willing to take the risk of using Asians as just ordinary people on a regular basis.

Back to YouTube... There are quite a bit of Eastern Asian material posted there. But if you read the comments associated with them, I'd say most of the comments are very racial. These racists may be the most vocal in any Internet-based community, but they'll be the same group of people who would flame Hollywood if it started an Asian campaign. And Hollywood doesn't exactly want that. I don't see the high level of racial slurs on other minority-based YouTube content, such as Indian, black, Filipino, etc. that I see on the Eastern Asian posts.

Even with major breakthroughs in equality within America, there's still very strong racial tensions within the country.

--- groink

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Post by junizastud » Jan 9th, '07, 11:06

ApathyEcstasy wrote:it's kind of pointless to compare the japanese film industry with hollywood...the vast difference in scale, production values, and talent pools makes it wishful thinking at best to believe that someone who's extremely well-known and appreciated in japan would be able to succeed in hollywood
Surviving as an asian actor in Hollywood could be a bit difficult. Most asians are type casted and aren't usually the main focus of a story.

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Post by reynardine » Jan 12th, '07, 21:21

groink wrote:I just got through browsing through YouTube. And it just proved my overall thesis I talked about early on in this topic, in which the U.S. in general suffers from cultural identification and the inability to deal with it. For review, most of America were never brought up around Asians - especially Eastern Asians. Therefore, most Americans are not comfortable watching Asians in entertainment because they're not used to seeing them. And that's why Hollywood isn't willing to take the risk of using Asians as just ordinary people on a regular basis.
This is unfortunately true. Plus, there's a number of people in the older generation (the ones who fought in Vietnam, Korea and even WWII) that have a genuine prejudice against Asians. My parents are like that. They can't see why anyone who wasn't of Asian descent would be interested in Asian film, culture, literature, etc.

There were no Asians living in the area that I grew up in. I didn't meet anyone of Asian descent until I went to college. And where I live now (NE Iowa) is 98% white.

The theatre was supposed to release "Hero" here, but they cancelled because they didn't think it would pull an audience. When "Spirited Away" showed here, it lasted only a week. My husband and I went to see it and we were the only ones in the theatre.

"The Last Samurai" otoh, did okay, because folks identified with Tom Cruise's character.

I worked for three years at the Suncoast (a store that sells DVDs, etc) here before they closed the store last February. The only Asian movies that sold were martial art flicks. The one exception was "Shall We Dance?", which was released when they released the US adaptation (I would talk people into seeing the original, since it was better) and "Shaolin Soccer", which got a cult following among college students. I used to have to special-order the Asian films I was interested in, because the head office wouldn't stock them at our store. (I don't blame them since they weren't selling and they needed the space for stuff that would.)

Hopefully, the popularity of anime, with a generation of people who grew up not having an Asian country as "the enemy" will help reduce this kind of racism. It'll take time.

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Post by aokami » Jan 15th, '07, 16:10

I think it is pointless for a thriving film industry to have the main goal of it's stars to be "Big enough to go to America" when the real problem is that the potential for worldwide distribution is only used to a fraction of its true potential. Look at this community for instance. Years ago this was unheard of to have easy and quick access to worldwide media, but we are doing it now. And in a few years when all of these kids who were raised on manga, their mom's compulsive dorama watching and superior anime subs become the hot new target market where do you think the content will come from? I would like to think that the increased exposure will create a more refined taste and quality standard that would allow people to get over their archaic need to dub everything if it's not in english.

On the subject of the racial issues- -it is so embarrasing. As a general species you would like to think we are past that. Maybe it's some sort of defense mechanism because of the shifting racial balance, or just the sensationalism from posting such offensive crap as to why they do it. After watching Heroes a few weeks ago my fiance pointed out how Nakamura Hiro is one of the rare few Japanese characters on tv.. and he is total Otaku. I love his character, but it is the new-age equivalent of the gun-toting cowboy that shows up at random in anime. Not to mention his buddy who apparently is a web stalker to a cam girl. It's a start to have them there in the first place, but does it do any good to help convince the masses that there is more to Japan than geeks and perverts?

I think in general the "revolution" is coming.. just slow as tar. For now I do not trust Hollywood to make a decent movie let alone respect the talents of other nations. There are rare exceptions but for what I see as a good movie oftentimes the director/writer is someone who looks outside of Hollywood with respect too. If anyone is paying attention please gambatte and get a job as a network executive. We will gladly hand you money! Until then I hope that asian media realizes the potential revenue on creating international fans through any means possible.

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Post by captain-nippon » Feb 9th, '07, 08:25

it's a gap of logic. just because american movies make money in japan doesn't mean that japanese movies will make the same money in america. period. end of story.
you're right that most Japanese movies will not do well in america because america are ignore and racists toward japanese and asian alike. Americans buy Japanese cars and electronics i am pretty sure they watch Japanese movies too, its to bad they don't get release. Even the good one.

i said if american studios gave a certain country's films an advantage over its own in the interest of being fair, they'd be called communist.
are you a child? Why the heck will they will be call a communist if they try to be fair?

Like I said, you just accursed Japan, Germany, South Korea and French of being a communist because they are FAIR. They let americans movies in their countries.

It's the american studios that are being the communist, why? because they used their power to oppress creative contents from other countries away from the american publics.

Of course, naturally, people like you are probably a communist at heard or a very ignore person. You seem to be very happy that asians creative contents are being kept away from the american people. It's too bad you can't do the same with cars and electronics.




[/quote]

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Post by nikochanr3 » Feb 9th, '07, 14:35

Memoirs of a Geisha bombed because it SUCKED, it was poorly acted, and anyone who did like the book, was stuck with this mess of a movie that wouldnt remind them of the book.

ANYWAY
How about Ken Watanabe? He's not only surviving, he's thriving. Being the lead in a film nominated for best picture (and not best foreign picture) is pretty good, no?

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Post by zero_butterfly » Feb 9th, '07, 17:55

Takeshi Kaneshiro (Tho, I know, he's born in TW) because people already know him from his chinese work.

I don't think YamaPi could take Hollywood. Jyannis boys seem pretty coddled most of the time, it'd be too competitive in my opinion.

I would love love LOVE to see Itoh Misaki in an english speaking role, she has a very natural grace that might take Hollywood by surprise.

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