Login Issue? Delete D-addicts cookie from your browser settings and login again.

Let's learn Japanese....

Talk about the culture and entertainment from Nihon.
User avatar
requiem
Posts: 40
Joined: Mar 26th, '06, 21:49
Location: USA

Post by requiem » Apr 16th, '07, 17:36

@ anoney: IIRC in informal Japanese cutting off the copula following nouns (especially time or physical placement ones, like "tsumori," "yotei," "gurai," etc.) is entirely an okay practice, although if I wanted to stay consistent I would say "tsukutte" or "tsukirinasai" rather than a polite "kudasai"). Thus, in mixing formal and informal speech I stand corrected.

Concerning the second one, I meant the ~nda (muzukashiin da to omoimasu) expression, but I thought I'd keep it simple and ended up making a silly mistake again. :-P Sigh...

Thank you for the nitpicks - itsuka kanpeki nihongo wo hanashitai kedo. ^_^

User avatar
F4
Posts: 154
Joined: Dec 14th, '06, 19:31
Location: UAE

Post by F4 » Apr 16th, '07, 17:52

anoney wrote:Let's break it down (kanji first, then kana, then romaji, then a small explanation of components, then english translation):

春暖快適の候、
しゅんだんかいてきのこう、
Shundankaiteki no kou,

Shundan = warm spring weather, spring warmth
Kaiteki = pleasant, aggreable, comfortable
no = possesive particle
Kou = weather, season

Put all those components together, and we get something along the lines of:
"The season of pleasant spring weather,"

---------------

貴社ますますご盛栄のこととお喜び申し上げます。
きしゃますますごせいえいのこととおよろこびもうしあげます。
Kisha masumasu go-seiei no koto to o-yorokobi moushiagemasu.

Kisha = (your) company
Masumasu = increasingly, more and more
Go-Seiei = "go" is generally an honourific for nouns, and "Seiei" is the name of a company
O-Yorokobi moushiagemasu = "o" is another honourific used before some nouns and verbs. There is a general rule that "go" is used with nouns with a reading of Chinese origin, and "o" is for nouns and verbs with readings which originated in Japan. However, this rule doesn't always work so it's usually best to just memorise how they are used. "Yorokobi" means "joy, delight, pleasure" and "moushiagemasu" means (in this context, specifically following a verb) "delighted, pleased".

So a rough english translation would go something like this:
"I/we are delighted that your company increasingly favoured/looked towards Seiei."

---------------

平素は格別のご高配を賜り、厚くお礼申し上げます。
へいそはかくべつのごこうはいをたまわり、あつくおれいもうしあげます。
Heiso ha kakubetsu no go-kouhai wo tamawari, atsuku o-rei moushiagemasu.

Heiso ha = in the past
Kakubetsu = exceptional, particular
Go-Kouhai = (good) courtesy
Tamawari (tamawaru) = to be given, to be granted, to be honoured with
Atsuku (atsui, te-form) = lit. to make thicker (when used with "o-rei moushiagemasu" it means "thanks warmly"
O-Rei moushiagemasu = (I am/to be) grateful

So it can be roughly translated as:
"I/we am/are deeply grateful for the exceptional courtesy which you honoured us/me with in the past."

If we put it all together, then we end up with something like this:
春暖快適の候、貴社ますますご盛栄のこととお喜び申し上げます。平素は格別のご高配を賜り、厚くお礼申し上げます。

"During the season of warm weather, I/we are delighted that your company increasingly favoured/looked towards Seiei. I/we am/are deeply grateful for the exceptional courtesy which you extended towards us/me in the past."

(I am more likely to lean towards using "we" as opposed to "I" in the english translation as it seems that one company is expressing their thanks and gratitude to another company in a very polite way.)
OMG ... i did not thik it will take all that effort 4 translating this sentence :unsure:

anoney Arigatou Gosaimus ...

I want to learn the kanji reading however i am still beginer in japanese lang, do u recommand any webs helping or programes?

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 16th, '07, 18:05

requiem wrote:@ anoney: IIRC in informal Japanese cutting off the copula following nouns (especially time or physical placement ones, like "tsumori," "yotei," "gurai," etc.) is entirely an okay practice, although if I wanted to stay consistent I would say "tsukutte" or "tsukirinasai" rather than a polite "kudasai"). Thus, in mixing formal and informal speech I stand corrected.

Concerning the second one, I meant the ~nda (muzukashiin da to omoimasu) expression, but I thought I'd keep it simple and ended up making a silly mistake again. :-P Sigh...

Thank you for the nitpicks - itsuka kanpeki nihongo wo hanashitai kedo. ^_^
I completely understand how spoken/informal Japanese (heck any language) is not usually grammatically perfect, but try to remember this is a thread for people learning the language. While you and I understand what you were doing, others might not and by not pointing things out like this they may pick up bad habits, etc. (I'm not attacking or anything, my Japanese is just as bad, I'm just trying to help create a productive learning environment)

レクイエムさんはもう上手だと思うんだから、もう少し勉強すれば完璧になるよ。
お互いに頑張ろう!

User avatar
Ore.Sama
Posts: 96
Joined: Mar 29th, '07, 11:02
Location: UAE

Post by Ore.Sama » Apr 16th, '07, 19:49

hi again ^^
requiem wrote: Kaeru no wa North Pole kara chotto muzukashii da to omoimasu. = "I think returning from the North Pole is a little difficult."
I noticed that u used two particles after eachother here ... Why is that?? this is the first time i see it...

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 16th, '07, 19:59

Ore.Sama:

What requiem did was nominalise the verb "kaeru". By "nominalise" I mean that he converted it to a noun. By converting verbs to a noun we can make even more complex sentences like:

"It took 5 hours to travel to London"
"Listening to Japanese is more difficult than speaking Japanese."

You can nominalise any verb using a simple system. Using the dictionary form of the verb, we attach a "no" or "koto" which then nominalises it so we can use it as a noun. While "no" and "koto" are usually interchangeable when nominalising nouns, using "no" for nominalised verbs in the middle or beginning of sentences is very "Japanese-like". "No" cannot be used to end a sentence, instead "koto" is used.

quashlo
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 167
Joined: Nov 2nd, '06, 18:04
Location: San Francisco

Post by quashlo » Apr 16th, '07, 20:26

Small note...
Seiei (盛栄) is not the name of a company... It wouldn't make sense either, since there is a "go" in front.

盛栄=盛んになる、栄える
flourish, prosper (in business)

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 16th, '07, 21:20

Quashio:

Many thanks for the correction, that's the only thing which really stumped me as I couldn't find any entries in my dictionaries. Original post corrected!

User avatar
Ore.Sama
Posts: 96
Joined: Mar 29th, '07, 11:02
Location: UAE

Post by Ore.Sama » Apr 17th, '07, 06:17

anoney wrote:Ore.Sama:

What requiem did was nominalise the verb "kaeru". By "nominalise" I mean that he converted it to a noun. By converting verbs to a noun we can make even more complex sentences like:

"It took 5 hours to travel to London"
"Listening to Japanese is more difficult than speaking Japanese."

You can nominalise any verb using a simple system. Using the dictionary form of the verb, we attach a "no" or "koto" which then nominalises it so we can use it as a noun. While "no" and "koto" are usually interchangeable when nominalising nouns, using "no" for nominalised verbs in the middle or beginning of sentences is very "Japanese-like". "No" cannot be used to end a sentence, instead "koto" is used.
I only knew abt koto... thanxx 4 the help ^^

User avatar
xkawaiix
Posts: 415
Joined: Feb 12th, '07, 22:05
Location: England

Post by xkawaiix » Apr 17th, '07, 09:04

guys, i think we should learn Hiragana first, because its the easiest then learn Kenji last! :D

User avatar
F4
Posts: 154
Joined: Dec 14th, '06, 19:31
Location: UAE

Post by F4 » Apr 17th, '07, 13:21

xkawaiix wrote:guys, i think we should learn Hiragana first, because its the easiest then learn Kenji last! :D
hiragana??? u mean romaji?

User avatar
requiem
Posts: 40
Joined: Mar 26th, '06, 21:49
Location: USA

Post by requiem » Apr 17th, '07, 16:57

Learning how to write Japanese is roughly about 5 times harder than learning how to speak it.
In fact, after time and advancement it becomes about as difficult - if not more difficult - than Korean or Chinese.

Why? Well, since Japanese combines 2 syllabaries in which one of them doesn't always differentiate whether it uses loan words or emphasized expressions, combining those and the usage of Kanji in higher-level writing requires years of organized practice and memorization to read in a fluous manner.

Compared to Chinese which is all Kanji and an SVO language like English, Japanese at first will be easier - but in due time as one adjusts to the complications of Kanji, at least in Chinese there are sets of Kanji to pattern and identify, wherein Japanese may not clearly show the same pronunciation, depending on the kana that follow it. (Also, most Japanese kanji have clearly at least one Japanese and Chinese pronunciation to them, which can be exasperating to differentiate depending on how it is traditionally said. Yes, I am aware that Chinese Kanji have several pronunciations too, but they are all Chinese pronunciations, thus...)

Compared to Korean, Hangul has become so well adapted to the language that one doesn't even have to learn Kanji to live a normal life. Korean Kanji, though I'm not too familiar with them, are written relatively the same in respect to Chinese Kanji.

Thus, my point is in all of this that if you want to learn Japanese, it's best to get a hold of the speech first. Hiragana and katakana are a must, but Kanji is something that takes time. Overall, the speaking part is relatively easy (easier for us to learn than for the Japanese to learn English), and once you have a grip on it the writing will become easier to pick up.

User avatar
Ore.Sama
Posts: 96
Joined: Mar 29th, '07, 11:02
Location: UAE

Post by Ore.Sama » Apr 18th, '07, 10:23

F4 wrote:
xkawaiix wrote:guys, i think we should learn Hiragana first, because its the easiest then learn Kenji last! :D
hiragana??? u mean romaji?[/quote

Romaji is writing using roman characters while hiragana is the "japanese" way of writing (looks like:る). There are two other systems: Katakana and kanji... requiem wrote a good descrition abt them

hmmm.. i think keeping it at a romaji level is better for every1 to understand, since most beginners (including myself) don't know hiragana here, ne?

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 18th, '07, 14:50

I agree that speech should be tackled first,followed closely by writing (hiragana, then kanji).

The problem with using romaji is that once you rely on it, it's hard to switch to kana (which is the name for hiragana and katakana). Romaji also implies that there are convenient spaces in between nouns and particles, etc. so this makes the switch to kana all the more harder. I would suggest to anyone who wants to genuinely study Japanese that they begin with learning greetings and easy phrases, and use romaji while learning kana. But don't rely too much on romaji as it doesn't always convey the correct pronunciation. Kana can be learnt in a week so there's really no excuse to use romaji for a long period of time.

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 19th, '07, 00:20

I am very interested in learning Japanese, however since I don't know much about how you speak/write it ,what I wanted to know is, what style of writing/speaking is mist common in modern Japan? I know the types of writing are Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana, but which one would be most usefull to learn?

Sorry if this is a stupid questions ,but I honestly don't know ^-^

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 19th, '07, 03:35

You will need all three unfortunately. Speaking-wise, it doesn't matter you don't need to know hiragana/katakana/kanji, but for writing you need a combination of all three.

User avatar
requiem
Posts: 40
Joined: Mar 26th, '06, 21:49
Location: USA

Post by requiem » Apr 19th, '07, 03:41

Kailey1710 wrote:I am very interested in learning Japanese, however since I don't know much about how you speak/write it ,what I wanted to know is, what style of writing/speaking is mist common in modern Japan? I know the types of writing are Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana, but which one would be most usefull to learn?

Sorry if this is a stupid questions ,but I honestly don't know ^-^
The most common style of writing is a combination of all three writing systems; however, when you learn it you should take on the kana systems first.

Hiragana first. I know some people say it's better to learn the katakana first, but hiragana makes up some of the most important structures in grammar - and also its usually the chosen kana for furigana (which are the little letters written below or to the right of the Kanji)

Thus, take your time and regularly look over hiragana. When you feel comfortable, learn katakana, and then after you have learned some grammar take on Kanji.

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 19th, '07, 12:49

^ ^ Ah I see, thank you for clearing that up for me! I'm trying very hard to learn to speak and write Japanese, so this helps a lot. My friend told me that you should learn to speak Japanese before you learn to write it, not sure if that's true or not. Either way, I want to start learning :lol I plan to go to college in Japan, so that's in 3 years, so if I study real hard for that long I should at least know basics of writing/speaking ne?

User avatar
Riee109
Posts: 57
Joined: Oct 13th, '06, 10:17
Location: Germany

Post by Riee109 » Apr 19th, '07, 14:49

Kailey1710 wrote:learn to speak Japanese before you learn to write it, not sure if that's true or not. Either way, I want to start learning :lol I plan to go to college in Japan, so that's in 3 years, so if I study real hard for that long I should at least know basics of writing/speaking ne?
Hey, the same as me. I also want to go to college/university in Japan... Still 2 years left but I also got a lot to learn. Just passed JLPT Level 2 but I think you should have Level 1 if you want to study there -.- (Well, you don't need the JPLT but the niveau)
I think it is best to learn speaking and writing at the same time. Seeing the kanji actually makes it easier for me to remember words. Many words I can remember by seeing them once just because I already know their characters.

User avatar
requiem
Posts: 40
Joined: Mar 26th, '06, 21:49
Location: USA

Post by requiem » Apr 19th, '07, 17:55

Riee109 wrote:
Kailey1710 wrote:learn to speak Japanese before you learn to write it, not sure if that's true or not. Either way, I want to start learning :lol I plan to go to college in Japan, so that's in 3 years, so if I study real hard for that long I should at least know basics of writing/speaking ne?
Hey, the same as me. I also want to go to college/university in Japan... Still 2 years left but I also got a lot to learn. Just passed JLPT Level 2 but I think you should have Level 1 if you want to study there -.- (Well, you don't need the JPLT but the niveau)
I think it is best to learn speaking and writing at the same time. Seeing the kanji actually makes it easier for me to remember words. Many words I can remember by seeing them once just because I already know their characters.
You passed the Level 2 exam? suggei na...@_@
I've been studying w/dedication for 2 years now, and am absolutely confident about the level 3 exam, but I want to go for the level 2...I am confident at this point that I can identify at least 400 Kanji, understand all basic points of grammar and function and a decent set of expressions that native speakers use. but I know it's still not enough for level 2.

I've heard that you have great opportunities alone with the level 2 - level 1 means you function like a basic Japanese citizen right? Why not just go there for school and then take the level 1? It'd probably be much easier that way.

User avatar
Riee109
Posts: 57
Joined: Oct 13th, '06, 10:17
Location: Germany

Post by Riee109 » Apr 19th, '07, 18:15

requiem wrote: I've heard that you have great opportunities alone with the level 2 - level 1 means you function like a basic Japanese citizen right? Why not just go there for school and then take the level 1? It'd probably be much easier that way.
Well, It's pretty hard to enter a japanese university... I really need to be at leat at the niveau of level 1! So I'll go there for Working Holidays first (next year) and during that time I'll try to take all the exams that are necessary for my desired university...
But even though I passed Level 2 my japanese isn't that good. But the good thing is that my Japanese is good enough for japanese message boards, which are really fun and help to improve my Japanese.
So you will try Level 3 this year? I never tried Level 3, last years Level 2 test was the first time I took a JLPT ever. It really wasn't as hard as I had imagined. Why don't you also try Level 2? You've got nothing to loose^^

By the way, I've got some vocabulary questions.
These are a word and a sentence I used to know them, but somehow forgot...
First the saying "to kill two birds with one stone" and then I'm looking for the word used when a really beautiful woman is dating a rather ugly guy (the word really does exist...)

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 19th, '07, 18:27

Riee109 wrote:
Kailey1710 wrote:learn to speak Japanese before you learn to write it, not sure if that's true or not. Either way, I want to start learning :lol I plan to go to college in Japan, so that's in 3 years, so if I study real hard for that long I should at least know basics of writing/speaking ne?
Hey, the same as me. I also want to go to college/university in Japan... Still 2 years left but I also got a lot to learn. Just passed JLPT Level 2 but I think you should have Level 1 if you want to study there -.- (Well, you don't need the JPLT but the niveau)
I think it is best to learn speaking and writing at the same time. Seeing the kanji actually makes it easier for me to remember words. Many words I can remember by seeing them once just because I already know their characters.
Ah I'm glad you have this opinion :D I didn't want to get in over my head, so I wasn't sure the easiest way to learn. Still, I'm going to study hard! My goal is to be proffient enough by the time I finish HS to be able to enter college in Japan.
Haha, I'm way stressing out. I have 3 years left of HS and yesterday I spent all day looking at colleges. :P Ah I like to be prepared.

Anyway, I'll try my best to keep visiting this forum and learning some more ! I have a basic Japanese- english dictionary, but this thread really helps me because REALLY small town + no money + far away from other towns = No japanese class.

So, Arigatou for the help :lol

User avatar
Riee109
Posts: 57
Joined: Oct 13th, '06, 10:17
Location: Germany

Post by Riee109 » Apr 19th, '07, 18:32

Kailey1710 wrote: Haha, I'm way stressing out. I have 3 years left of HS and yesterday I spent all day looking at colleges. :P Ah I like to be prepared.
l
So where do you want to go?^^
Sry, OT

quashlo
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 167
Joined: Nov 2nd, '06, 18:04
Location: San Francisco

Post by quashlo » Apr 19th, '07, 18:47

Riee109 wrote: First the saying "to kill two birds with one stone" and then I'm looking for the word used when a really beautiful woman is dating a rather ugly guy (the word really does exist...)
First is 「一石二鳥」...
The other I'm not so sure... Maybe you mean 「才子佳人」?

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 19th, '07, 18:56

Riee109 wrote:
Kailey1710 wrote: Haha, I'm way stressing out. I have 3 years left of HS and yesterday I spent all day looking at colleges. :P Ah I like to be prepared.
l
So where do you want to go?^^
Sry, OT
So far my favorites are Nagoya University and Kansai University.
Of course I will have to be MAJORLY smart to get in, ne? Well I get okay grades I suppose, mostly all B's. ^-^ I have to crack down. Go math go! :crazy:

I also want to visit Meiji University, but only because YamaPi goes there. I would be like...

'AHH YAMAPI MIGHT"VE SAT HERE AHHH *touch seat and never wash hand again*"

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 19th, '07, 19:00

Hey! I had the choice of going to either Waseda University, Keio University, Tokyo Gaidai, Sophia (Jyouji) University, or Hokkaido University.

While the others are all very reputable, I chose Hokkaido mainly to improve my Japanese in as quick a time as possible. I'm going there to study for one year starting from August 07. Wish me luck!

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 19th, '07, 19:04

anoney wrote:Hey! I had the choice of going to either Waseda University, Keio University, Tokyo Gaidai, Sophia (Jyouji) University, or Hokkaido University.

While the others are all very reputable, I chose Hokkaido mainly to improve my Japanese in as quick a time as possible. I'm going there to study for one year starting from August 07. Wish me luck!
Ahh wow! :lol Those are all very very prestigious universities ne? Good job! I wish you good luck, and when you get there post and tell about your experience!

One thing I must ask... How long have you been writing/speaking Japanese for?

User avatar
Riee109
Posts: 57
Joined: Oct 13th, '06, 10:17
Location: Germany

Post by Riee109 » Apr 19th, '07, 19:22

quashlo wrote: First is 「一石二鳥」...
The other I'm not so sure... Maybe you mean 「才子佳人」?
thank you^^
the second one is also the one I was looking for (even though my explanation wasn't quite right, maybe I didn't get it right from the beginning)
wow, you're Japanese must be really good...
Kailey1710 wrote: So far my favorites are Nagoya University and Kansai University.
Of course I will have to be MAJORLY smart to get in, ne?
Well you have to be smart... but your grades now don't really matter... I think what matters most is how you score in the test (EJU) that you'll have to take in Japan.
It's even harder for me because I have to take them in English and not in my native language... which makes especially maths very hard

anoney wrote:Hey! I had the choice of going to either Waseda University, Keio University, Tokyo Gaidai, Sophia (Jyouji) University, or Hokkaido University.
While the others are all very reputable, I chose Hokkaido mainly to improve my Japanese in as quick a time as possible. I'm going there to study for one year starting from August 07. Wish me luck!
Good luck^^ but we're a bit different from you because we want to go to the University not only for one year, but for the whole duration of study...
You are really lucky (and surely smart) to be able to go to a university like that, but for us it would even be much harder to enter it....


By the way, I really want to go to the Ochanomizu JoshiDai :wub:
Hope that it'll work out^^

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 19th, '07, 23:39

Kailey1710 wrote:One thing I must ask... How long have you been writing/speaking Japanese for?
This August will mark 2 years since I started learning Japanese (from scratch). :)

And Riee, you're right it's very hard for you as you want to study for the whole duration of a degree (3-5 years I think). However, apparently Hokkaido are treating me as a normal Japanese student just like any other student in their school (albeit a foreign one) so I've been subjected to some very harsh language-based tests too (including all the background checks and recommendation letters from Lecturers, etc).

Thanks for the kind words guys, I'll most likely post when I get there. I'm so damn excited, this is the first time I've ever been abroad!

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 20th, '07, 00:19

^ ^ Ahh that gives me so much hope, you have no idea! People have been telling me 'Japanese is the hardest language to learn' and 'It took me 5 years and I only understand 50% of all Japanese' and I'm like...... :cry:
Depressing. I don't want to be stuck here another 6 7 8 years. I guess it's just learning curve ne?
And Hokkaido sounds like a great school, i should check it out.

-edit- Ahh Hokkaido looks like a really great school. Congrats on that!

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » Apr 20th, '07, 01:44

You have to understand, different people learn in different ways.

I began Japanese from scratch with a 1 year intensive Diploma course. It was (and still is) the most intensive 1 year course offered in the whole of Europe (with some top class teachers and proven track record). I literally put my life on hold for a whole year to put everything into the course and straight afterwards I was accepted into University to do a Japanese degree but they let me skip the first year and go straight to the second. I'm coming to the end of my 2nd year now, and looking back I've put in a LOT of work over the past two years. It's no exaggeration to say that especially my first year of learning Japanese (last year) I was literally eating, sleeping and breathing Japanese every day for a whole year. For me, the intensive route was the best because I wanted to learn as much as possible in the shortest amount of time and because I work much better under pressure (of which there was tons). To top it off, I did the JLPT level 2 last year (the first time I'd taken any JLPT) and I passed without even revising one bit for it (100% honest, I didn't do a single bit of revision for it).

I also am involved in monitoring students learning beginners Japanese, so I can see that different people learn in different ways. My circumstance was such that I wanted to learn so badly that nothing could stop me and I was prepared to sacrifice a lot. Some people can't spend the amount of time per day that I did and so naturally they don't progress as fast. And some people just have difficulty adjusting to a new language with rules and scripts.

Japanese is NOT the hardest language to learn, people just say that. Anything can be potentially difficult, and it varies from person to person. Something which is difficult to someone may be easy to someone else. You just need to evaluate your reasons for learning and adapt to it. If you just do it for fun, then don't beat yourself up if you find you aren't progressing fast enough. And if you're doing it for your career or work, then be realistic, identify your weaknesses and consciously work on them. Learning advisors can help you with this, there should be one in most language departments.

Most of all, don't give up. I always tell myself that if a Japanese 6 year old can speak Japanese, then dammit so can I. I may need to put in more effort, but if you're determined enough you will succeed.

(thanks for the comment about Hokkaido!)

Shae0001
Posts: 60
Joined: Mar 20th, '07, 10:00
Location: USA

Ano.....?

Post by Shae0001 » Apr 20th, '07, 02:14

Do you live in the states? or Where? Because I would like to know where you can go to take classes?

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 20th, '07, 02:33

^ ^ yep, I know it is possible, and I'm going to try and work very hard to study and learn as best as I can. Thanks for the advice :lol

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Re: Ano.....?

Post by anoney » Apr 20th, '07, 07:22

Shae0001 wrote:Do you live in the states? or Where? Because I would like to know where you can go to take classes?
I live in London.

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 20th, '07, 15:12

So I bought some Japanese-English learning and translation books, and so far they've been very helpful except I don't reall understand the role of Kanji in Japanese writing. I can write a little katakana, and for me Katakana makes sense and I can follow it easily. Except for when Kanji characters are inserted into the phrases, that I don't understand. When do you need to insert Kanji characters into sentences, and when do you don't? Also, I've noticed about 95% of the time the Kanji letters are only the first 2 or 3 characters in the sentance, so does that mean Kanji only goes in the beginning? And also, when writing a sentance, I know it usually is composed of a mixture of the two, but in my book when a sentance is written, above the Kanji are the Hirigana in small form. Do you always need to put these above the Kanji, or is that just the book trying to teach me how the sentence would look just with the two forms? I would write a sentance but my computer wont recognize Japanese characters :x

As always, Arigatou for any help you guys can give me! :-)

quashlo
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 167
Joined: Nov 2nd, '06, 18:04
Location: San Francisco

Post by quashlo » Apr 20th, '07, 15:27

Kanji has nothing to do with position in the sentence... Just think of kanji as a different way to write certain words. This is partly necessary because of the large number of homophones (similar-sounding words) in Japanese... Without the kanji to provide the meaning, it can be more difficult to discern the meaning of something if written only in hiragana. As you get better at reading Japanese, you will probably begin to appreciate the way kanji "break up" a sentence and make it easier to read... For me at least, it's actually much more difficult to read an all-kana sentence than a kana/kanji sentence. :lol

Your book has furigana (small kana on top of kanji) because it is a textbook for learning... This is occasionally used in Japanese when kanji are used that are not common and may be difficult for the average Japanese reader to know how to pronounce properly (unusual names are a common instance). There are other "style" uses--e.g., maybe using 光 and putting ライト above it as furigana--but these are not important for beginners.

Kailey1710
Posts: 61
Joined: Mar 13th, '07, 22:40
Location: United States

Post by Kailey1710 » Apr 21st, '07, 01:42

^ ^ ah thanks so much! That's a good defintion, I understand a lot more now. Thanks :mrgreen:

User avatar
Dreamfall
Posts: 171
Joined: Jan 5th, '07, 15:16
Location: Serbia

Post by Dreamfall » Apr 28th, '07, 19:04

Hi...me n my brother are just wondering how to say: pancakes...if there is no word for pancakes then you can give examples for some other sweets...any traditional sweet?
Also ..how they call...well it is something like...balls on a stick..many small balls...is that sweet?

User avatar
Dreamfall
Posts: 171
Joined: Jan 5th, '07, 15:16
Location: Serbia

Post by Dreamfall » Apr 28th, '07, 19:06

Hey..Kailey1710...your signature makes me feel hungry... :D

User avatar
F4
Posts: 154
Joined: Dec 14th, '06, 19:31
Location: UAE

Post by F4 » Apr 28th, '07, 22:14

hey group

how r u all ...

i want to understand what the ppl are talking about in this video .... plz anyone can trnslate it 4 me? i would approciate it .. onegaishimasu onegaishimasu onegaishimasu

http://www.veoh.com/videos/e150498gZbYs ... 53&rank=23

this is the video & if u ppl can't do it becuz it is 26 min ... at least try to translate the questions that they asked to the GYM

onegaishimasu

Arigatou in advance

Ja Ne

User avatar
requiem
Posts: 40
Joined: Mar 26th, '06, 21:49
Location: USA

Post by requiem » May 3rd, '07, 04:00

Dreamfall wrote:Hi...me n my brother are just wondering how to say: pancakes...if there is no word for pancakes then you can give examples for some other sweets...any traditional sweet?
Also ..how they call...well it is something like...balls on a stick..many small balls...is that sweet?
The balls on a stick are "dango."
Pancakes is probably: pankeeki or something to that effect. Modern day Japanese has assimilated an insane number of English words into its daily language. Traditional sweets usually consist of red beans (the name escapes me at the moment; I'd have to look it up)

User avatar
GoddessCarlie
Posts: 277
Joined: May 3rd, '07, 03:43
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by GoddessCarlie » May 3rd, '07, 04:16

If you want to know what a word is, I recommend this online dictionary. Just type in the word in english and it'll tell you in Japanese.

pankeeki is right. Also hottokeeki for hot cake,

User avatar
F4
Posts: 154
Joined: Dec 14th, '06, 19:31
Location: UAE

Post by F4 » May 3rd, '07, 19:44

GoddessCarlie wrote:If you want to know what a word is, I recommend this online dictionary. Just type in the word in english and it'll tell you in Japanese.

pankeeki is right. Also hottokeeki for hot cake,
arigatou 4 the web, it is really useful

User avatar
GoddessCarlie
Posts: 277
Joined: May 3rd, '07, 03:43
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by GoddessCarlie » May 5th, '07, 13:14

F4 wrote:
GoddessCarlie wrote:If you want to know what a word is, I recommend this online dictionary. Just type in the word in english and it'll tell you in Japanese.

pankeeki is right. Also hottokeeki for hot cake,
arigatou 4 the web, it is really useful
Also, check out the "translate words" option up the top. Paste in some japanese and it breaks it all down word by word. Much more helpful than babel fish!

guitarpj
Posts: 5
Joined: May 5th, '07, 19:35

Post by guitarpj » May 5th, '07, 20:09

anoney wrote:You will need all three unfortunately. Speaking-wise, it doesn't matter you don't need to know hiragana/katakana/kanji, but for writing you need a combination of all three.
I tend to disagree on this one... If you don't learn kanji you can only get so far in speaking. Once you get to an advanced level it's impossible to reference all of the words you need without it. Of course, there ARE some people, mostly who grew up in a Japanese environment, who can't read or write and still speak at a near native level but it's much more convenient to reference words with kanji, and I guarantee you that their vocabulary isn't as high as it should be.

guitarpj
Posts: 5
Joined: May 5th, '07, 19:35

Post by guitarpj » May 5th, '07, 20:25

I just came back from Japan and was also strongly considering going to a Japanese university! Just for the people that were talking about it almost all Japanese universities require the Level 1 proficiency test for students wishing to study IN japanese as there is no way level 2 would be sufficient for a university level course. However I had a couple friends who were doing a 4 year degree with the JLPT 2 at more minor universities. Anoney I'm surprised that you were accepted into Hokkaido university being treated as a regular student with JLPT level 2 (even for a 1 year exchange) but I think it'll be a great experience for you! expect A LOT of difficulty! I would have a hell of a time with it and my level is above JLPT 1... You are gonna be FLUENT when you are done!

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » May 5th, '07, 23:24

guitarpj:

My year abroad is part of my University degree! So it's a slightly different situation from some of the other people here.

guitarpj
Posts: 5
Joined: May 5th, '07, 19:35

Post by guitarpj » May 6th, '07, 02:06

anoney wrote:guitarpj:

My year abroad is part of my University degree! So it's a slightly different situation from some of the other people here.
Ahh nice! You were saying that you would be treated like any of the other normal students and I got the drift that you would be taking all your classes in Japanese with other Japanese students... When I checked up on exchange programs for myself I was told I needed Level 1 of the JLPT if I wanted to take courses in Japanese... Either way you are gonna love it!

anoney
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 11th, '06, 15:35

Post by anoney » May 6th, '07, 08:13

Yup, the "you'll be treated like a Japanese student even though you're a year-abroad student" comment was kinda surprising when I first heard it, but apparently the University lumps their foreign students in with their native students in order to help cohesion. We live in the same dorms too, so I appreciate the effort they're going to. Plus, if it's too much for some of us, we can opt not to go to our Japanese lectures, instead going for english-taught units.

I've never been abroad, let alone Japan, so I am so damn excited I'm going to explode! Thanks for the comments!

User avatar
GoddessCarlie
Posts: 277
Joined: May 3rd, '07, 03:43
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by GoddessCarlie » May 6th, '07, 08:36

I'm planning to do that with my degree not next year but the year after. I'm very excited! Hopefully I'll get a scholarship though, because I'm not sure how much money I can save. I'm really excited though, time doesn't move quick enough sometimes!

got_wasabi
Posts: 2
Joined: May 9th, '07, 18:08

Post by got_wasabi » May 11th, '07, 12:45

what does ittadakimasu mean?

User avatar
BxLibra
Posts: 280
Joined: Jan 27th, '07, 22:55
Location: Bronx, New York City and Albany, New York

Post by BxLibra » May 11th, '07, 13:17

got_wasabi wrote:what does ittadakimasu mean?
its something said before people eat its sort of like showing gratitude before eating the meal given to you i don't think there is an exact word for word definition for it

I should introduce myself: hopefully everyone can see kanji and furikana (Japanese characters)
はじめまして、私のなまえはオーラです。
21さいです
ええと。。。アメリカ人です
日本語を勉強します。
では。。。よろしくおねいがします。
please correct anything i said thats wrong i'm still a beginner and been learning on my own for a few months
also i found a site that maybe helpful to a lot of you I've found it useful also
www.thejapanesepage.com and www.japanesepod101.com
頑張ってね!!!
ではじゃね!!
Last edited by BxLibra on May 11th, '07, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.

zenitse
Posts: 93
Joined: Apr 27th, '06, 19:08
Location: Brno, Czech Republic

Post by zenitse » May 11th, '07, 13:23

got_wasabi wrote:what does ittadakimasu mean?
Itadakimasu is just a phrase said before eating (or less often, doing something enjoyable). If you wanted a literal translation, it could mean something like "I humbly accept".

charia-chan
Posts: 472
Joined: May 11th, '07, 13:25
Location: Germany

Post by charia-chan » May 11th, '07, 13:29

@BxLibra:

your text is quite good. Just one thing, it should be

????????????because you are studying right now, right? If you use shimasu here, it kind of sounds like you are planning to learn it.

charia-chan
Posts: 472
Joined: May 11th, '07, 13:25
Location: Germany

Post by charia-chan » May 11th, '07, 13:30

well... it won`t work with my kanji... don´t know why.

okay, I´ll just write it in Romaji:

it should be Benkyou wo shite imasu.

User avatar
BxLibra
Posts: 280
Joined: Jan 27th, '07, 22:55
Location: Bronx, New York City and Albany, New York

Post by BxLibra » May 11th, '07, 13:36

chaira-chanほんとうにありがとうね
日本語を勉強をしています
よろしくねchaira-chan ^.^

charia-chan
Posts: 472
Joined: May 11th, '07, 13:25
Location: Germany

Post by charia-chan » May 11th, '07, 13:37

douzo!^^

ganbatte ne!

I wonder, why it won`t let my write in kanji.... *drop*

User avatar
BxLibra
Posts: 280
Joined: Jan 27th, '07, 22:55
Location: Bronx, New York City and Albany, New York

Post by BxLibra » May 11th, '07, 13:39

are u using the IME button thing that lets u switch between furikana and english letters?

charia-chan
Posts: 472
Joined: May 11th, '07, 13:25
Location: Germany

Post by charia-chan » May 11th, '07, 13:46

I have no idea what it`s called, but I guess so^^
It works on other sites, so I can`t figure out, why I have problems here

User avatar
KurosakiKaien
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 08:29
Location: Cloud gazing, looking for something maybe..?

Post by KurosakiKaien » May 11th, '07, 21:47

遅れて来ました!

ー____________-;;

Hey everyone, glad to read about all the interesting stories, studying abroad, plans to study abroad and what not. Personally I have had difficulties in actually pursuing a direction in the past couple of years. Recently however I've become quite interested in finding employment in Japan. Although it'll still be a few years before graduating.. I think the past two years of study has really gotten me interested~

BxLibra/charia-chan:

今まで、何年ぐらい日本語を勉強していましたか?

User avatar
KAAdonkaDUNK
Posts: 47
Joined: Nov 14th, '06, 03:03

Post by KAAdonkaDUNK » May 11th, '07, 22:14

Hello. I had a little question...You know when someone says thank you right...that's Arigato...I think...Well what do you say back. Is there a way to say your welcome in japanese?

User avatar
KurosakiKaien
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 08:29
Location: Cloud gazing, looking for something maybe..?

Post by KurosakiKaien » May 11th, '07, 22:21

KAAdonkaDUNK wrote:Hello. I had a little question...You know when someone says thank you right...that's Arigato...I think...Well what do you say back. Is there a way to say your welcome in japanese?
You could reply with "iie" which is literally "no" a short form of "no problem."

No problem would be "iie, mondai nashi" or "iie, mondainai"

The most polite reply would be "douitashimashite" which is "you're welcome."

Hope this helps.

User avatar
KAAdonkaDUNK
Posts: 47
Joined: Nov 14th, '06, 03:03

Post by KAAdonkaDUNK » May 11th, '07, 22:31

Thank you...or should i say Arigatou =)

User avatar
MitsukaiKuroi
Posts: 382
Joined: Jan 16th, '07, 18:03
Location: Where Six Side Is Heaven And Nine Side Is Go...

Post by MitsukaiKuroi » May 11th, '07, 23:08

anoney wrote: The "to" (と) used above indicates that ONLY the things listed are your favorites things to do. This implies that there is nothing else you really like apart from those things listed. If you want to imply that there are other things you like but can't list them all, you would say:

"Eetoo... Sports ya ongaku ya nihon no dorama nado ga ichiban daisuki desu"
"えーと…スポーツや音楽や日本のドラマなどが一番大好きです。"

The "ya" (や) and "nado" (など) are like two ends of the same chain, they always come together (although "nado" is sometimes omitted). "Ya" comes in between everything you list, and "nado" comes right after the final thing you list. This sentence pattern implies that you really really like sports, music and Japanese dramas among other things. The "to" particle is very specific and limiting so you may find that it's not used as commonly as "ya" and "nado".
Thank you for clarifying that!!! I never quite understood the difference in using "to" and "ya".

And great topic mawchan!

User avatar
KurosakiKaien
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 08:29
Location: Cloud gazing, looking for something maybe..?

Post by KurosakiKaien » May 12th, '07, 01:41

KAAdonkaDUNK wrote:Thank you...or should i say Arigatou =)
どういたしまして~

User avatar
BxLibra
Posts: 280
Joined: Jan 27th, '07, 22:55
Location: Bronx, New York City and Albany, New York

Post by BxLibra » May 12th, '07, 01:43

KurosakiKaien wrote: BxLibra/charia-chan:

今まで、何年ぐらい日本語を勉強していましたか?
like 3-4 months but its been a lil less lately because of finals coming up
あなた?

User avatar
KurosakiKaien
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 08:29
Location: Cloud gazing, looking for something maybe..?

Post by KurosakiKaien » May 12th, '07, 01:49

ああ、 三ヶ月か四ヶ月ぐらいね。すごいですよ~ おれは今まで二年ぐらい日本語を勉強している。 BxLibraさんは一人で勉強していますか? しけんはいつ?

User avatar
BxLibra
Posts: 280
Joined: Jan 27th, '07, 22:55
Location: Bronx, New York City and Albany, New York

Post by BxLibra » May 12th, '07, 02:47

KurosakiKaien wrote:ああ、 三ヶ月か四ヶ月ぐらいね。すごいですよ~ おれは今まで二年ぐらい日本語を勉強している。BxLibraさんは一人で勉強していますか? しけんはいつ?
ありがとうね!
ええと。。。はい、日本語を一人で勉強をしていますでも、私は上手に日本語が話せません。
あの。。。”しけんはいつ”。。。どんな意味ですか?

User avatar
KurosakiKaien
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 08:29
Location: Cloud gazing, looking for something maybe..?

Post by KurosakiKaien » May 12th, '07, 03:57

しけんは英語でExamと言いますよ~ いつはWhenと言う言葉ですよ~ "When are your exams?" was what I meant ^^;;

一人で勉強知っているので、何かあったら、おれに聞いて下さいね~

User avatar
BxLibra
Posts: 280
Joined: Jan 27th, '07, 22:55
Location: Bronx, New York City and Albany, New York

Post by BxLibra » May 12th, '07, 15:49

lmfao duhhhh i can't believe i read that wrong (~.~;;) i kept reading it as haitsu instead of wa itsu so i was thinking exam huh? lol embarrassing でもありがとうね~
ok anyone else has any questions about Japanese this thread kinda got quiet and i hope others found the two webpages i mentioned before very helpful. (^.^)

User avatar
Dreamfall
Posts: 171
Joined: Jan 5th, '07, 15:16
Location: Serbia

Post by Dreamfall » May 13th, '07, 16:41

Hi...is there a site where I can learn kanji ...maybe it will sound stupid...but I need to learn it from the very start just like kids in Japan....Learning kanji 'by the way' isn't that good as I thought it would be.Any recommends?

quashlo
Fansubber
Fansubber
Posts: 167
Joined: Nov 2nd, '06, 18:04
Location: San Francisco

Post by quashlo » May 13th, '07, 17:06

Personally, I think the best way is simply to use a textbook that teaches kanji at the same time it teaches you grammar, vocabulary, etc., so you get some context out of it. It's generally easier to remember the pronunciation and meaning of a character if you can recall a kanji compound that uses it.

For meaning/recognition:
http://www.wfu.edu/~takatay/YookosoKanji/
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ik2r-myr/kanji/kanji1a.htm

For stroke order, I'm not so sure... There's probably a site or program that shows stroke order as you learn each character... Jim Breen's WWWJDIC shows stroke order for most characters.

zenitse
Posts: 93
Joined: Apr 27th, '06, 19:08
Location: Brno, Czech Republic

Post by zenitse » May 13th, '07, 19:59

Dreamfall wrote:Hi...is there a site where I can learn kanji ...maybe it will sound stupid...but I need to learn it from the very start just like kids in Japan....Learning kanji 'by the way' isn't that good as I thought it would be.Any recommends?
I personally started here http://japanese.about.com/library/blkanji.htm . Learnt about 60 basic kanji there and then continued mostly here http://japanese.about.com/library/blkodarchives.htm , but from various sources as well.

by the way, I didn't get reply for my last pm for you, anything happened? :)

User avatar
BxLibra
Posts: 280
Joined: Jan 27th, '07, 22:55
Location: Bronx, New York City and Albany, New York

Post by BxLibra » May 13th, '07, 20:32

Dreamfall wrote:Hi...is there a site where I can learn kanji ...maybe it will sound stupid...but I need to learn it from the very start just like kids in Japan....Learning kanji 'by the way' isn't that good as I thought it would be.Any recommends?
Well when i first started i tried looking for sites like that (that taught it as if a child were learning) but couldn't find any so the closest was www.thejapanesepage.com, and also http://web.mit.edu/21f.500/www/ its the site for the MIT (a University here in the states) Japanese classes it offers great kanji practice

phramc
Posts: 181
Joined: Jan 12th, '07, 00:55
Location: hiding on my computer

Post by phramc » May 14th, '07, 02:16

I learned kanji from thousands of websites and I had a REALLY handy workbook.

http://www.sabotenweb.com/bookmarks/lan ... l#tutoring
this website has tons of websites that can help you with japanese. They really help(ed) me when/while I was/am learning japanese.

User avatar
KurosakiKaien
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 08:29
Location: Cloud gazing, looking for something maybe..?

Post by KurosakiKaien » May 14th, '07, 05:29

The way it's taught in my classes here is more or less as how quashlo describes it. At the end of each chapter (the first 7 have 10-15 Kanji at the end of each chapter) then in the next volume it became 30 Kanji per chapter. I don't recommend learning them on a speedy basis as the class does (it'll just come and go) but it is taught at the same time grammar and vocabulary points are.

As for stroke order, basic rule of thumb is always left to right, top to bottom, contents of 'boxes' are written in first, before the 'box' is closed. However, the only times where these rules won't work is when there are say.. multiple horizontal lines, and a single vertical line, in that situation it's generally the first horizontal stroke (at the top) first, the vertical stroke, and then the remaining horizontal strokes (top to bottom). Hope that doesn't sound too confusing, it's a tad hard to explain in writing lol.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests