The way Japanese people and culture are portrayed

miklovj7 · Post by **miklovj7** » Oct 14th, '07, 08:50

I watch a lot of doramas, I've been watching them for years now.
I found them entertaining and helpful for understanding the language (yes I'm trying to learn japanese).
I don't understand why there are so many shows with dumb, stupid, childish characters. This is happening more often in the recent doramas rather then in older ones (ie 90's).
What surprises me is the fact that many of those character should be adults behaving like adults but they act so childishly like their youger counterparts instead. All those stupid faces and shallow expressions which lead to nothing.
I asked my japanese teacher, who luckly is in her 40s and a couple of younger friends of mine about that. They told me that lately, like western cultures, more and more people remain childish up to thei late 30s and thus the lousy doramas.
What do you think about that?

Noale · Post by **Noale** » Oct 14th, '07, 08:57

Isn't that childish acting just a contribution to the "Kawaii!!! :3" hype. I don't think adults in Japan actually behave like children, but you tend to see it quite often in dramas, because it's considered cute, and because it's being watched by teenagers, who are very much into this Kawaii hype. I actually enjoy watching dramas with childish people making silly faces myself ^^

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 14th, '07, 09:25

Keep in mind that Japanese TV shows are not created for audiences outside of Japan. It is true that most of the shows now are somewhat silly - and I personally hate it so much that I've basically boycott current prime-time dramas. But like someone earlier mentioned - it appears that the younger audience is the prime target - probably to establish a long-term relationship between the TV networks and the younger audience to watch their dramas for years to come. One TV network starts catering to kawaii/ikemen genre, and soon enough all the other TV networks follow suit. It is a natural transition - as much of the younger crowd are weened on comic books and such. That and more just comes with the territory. As a result, you get the crap you and I are now complaining about.

I truly can see why some people made the shift from Japanese dramas to Korean dramas. In K-dramas, you don't see this juvenile crap. The k-dramas appear more like the 1990s Japanese dramas - as the focus on them appear to be more mature people with "real" romance issues, rather than the puppy love BS Japan is dishing out now. But again, the Japanese audience isn't going to abandon their homegrown shows for something foreign.

But fortunately, the TBS Ai no Gekijo and NHK asadora remains un-bothered by the prime-time trend. As far as I'm concerned, the prime-time line-up of dramas don't even exist.

--- groink

miklovj7 · Post by **miklovj7** » Oct 14th, '07, 11:27

groink wrote: [...]it appears that the younger audience is the prime target - probably to establish a long-term relationship between the TV networks and the younger audience to watch their dramas for years to come[...]

This is far worst in my opinion, because if teenagers keep the trend healthy, it means that we'll have a future of solely dumb dramas!
I live in Italy and it's very sad to see what you said confirmed here too.
What was the audience of the 90's doramas then? They were all "aged"?

Noale · Post by **Noale** » Oct 14th, '07, 20:10

As much as I enjoy watching these giggly, bubble-gum, look-at-me-being-silly dramas for now, I'm sure it will start bothering me after a while. I only like watching such dramas, because it's new for me and they make me laugh. But the older jokes get, the less funny they'll become. And dramas with strong stories and good actors will always be my first choice and frankly, I think most other people agree with me on that. So I'm not too worried that good dramas will dissapear from the face of the earth.

Sayumi · Post by **Sayumi** » Oct 14th, '07, 20:50

I cried tears with Ai No Uta & Koi ga Shitai 3x, and usually I'm not really into 'love-drama'. Their stories are just sooo awesome and the actors so interesting, like for example Kanno Miho. Those are quite 'grown-up' dramas, maintaining real-life problems and 'overacting' is a no-no.
So I can see where you're getting, groink, most o/t current jdrama stars are either Johnny-boys or girls/boys who did one drama well and seemed to appeal the public (like Horikita Maki). As long as they can find a popular manga they can f*** up (like hanakimi)...

rose-land · Post by **rose-land** » Oct 15th, '07, 13:18

Since your talking about the way the Japanese people are portrayed in their dramas, I'd like to drag your attention to the way women are portrayed in them. It's true dat I haven't watched a lot of Japanese dramas but I was a huge fan of Korean drama just before I switch to Japanese drama. And guess what I found the same image. Women always appear in those dramas as silly, stinky, ignorant creatures which is actually isn't true
just go and have a look at Hotaru No Hikari and Nodame Cantabile and you will notice dat the man is always Mr. perfect and the woman is always ignorant. I really wanna know WHY WOMEN ARE PORTRAYED IN THAT NEGATIVE WAY? is it coz of the Yin and Yang or coz of other things?

Sorry if you find me a little bit harsh but plz understand that I'm a woman and those images really piss me off

hadmish · Post by **hadmish** » Oct 15th, '07, 14:22

Living in Japan and watching TV here I think recently, more than before, there's a kind of 'comedy boom'. The Japanese themselves have defined it, as a 'boom'. Comedians are really popular now. I think that anyone watching just a bit of variety shows can notice that. and almost all dramas now have one comedian as an actor on the show. it is kind of unavoidable that this sort of humour would get into the dramas. In my opinion its a phase...as its "in" now...it can be "out" just as quickly...

I think Japanese humour has always been different. Most Japanese I have spoken to, do not get American (let alone fine British) humour, they prefer very explicit humour. If you've ever been to the cinema here in Japan to watch an American comedy you'd be amazed at how little the audience laughs. They dont get that sort of jokes (granted they are sometimes hard to translate), and its not that they are shy to laugh in public (as some have suggested) - coz they laugh out loud when it's a Japanese comedy. (I often wonder why they bother going to the cinema to watch American comedies).

As for how women are portrayed, you have to think that the target audience of these dramas are women. Men would watch Fuurin Kazan or something of the like (can't generalize, but they often have polls, and in those men's preferences are quite visible). Making the guy Mr. Perfect - romantic, lovable- would help bring the female audience back every week.....(idol culture). dont get me wrong, it drives me off the wall too. but then a lot of things regarding images of women in Japan do.....had to get used to it....

just my (long) two cents in.......

rose-land · Post by **rose-land** » Oct 15th, '07, 14:38

yeah it could be true dat it's coz those dramas are addressed to female audience but I still believe that it also has to do with the symbol of the Yin and Yang, don't you think so?

doink-chan · Post by **doink-chan** » Oct 15th, '07, 16:52

I always thought it was similar to how in harem anime, there's a guy who's a totally boring doink, surrounded by all these girls. Otaku who watch them are intended to imagine themselves in place of the doink. And since Hotaru no Hikari and Nodame Cantabile are aimed at women, and since the scriptwriters of both series are female (not to mention the original mangaka were female), I bet the female viewers of the show also are encouraged to imagine themselves in place of Nodame or Hotaru snagging "Mr. Perfect"...or, alternatively, watch how those characters grow to become less doinky as the series goes on.

Not all female characters in J-dramas are like Hotaru and Nodame though.

Nonbirira · Post by **Nonbirira** » Oct 16th, '07, 03:09

I live in Japan and am a faithful asadora watcher. However, don't watch much Japanese TV other than that except news and travel programs. Gave up on Japanese dramas a while ago (I ended up yelling at the TV a lot!) and am now a Korean drama addict. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the increased competition between the major TV stations and cable. I think a lot of older viewers have abandoned "regular TV" for cable so they can watch exactly what they want to watch (such as Korean/American TV dramas which are EXTREMELY popular!). That leaves younger viewers - so just adapt a popular anime series, add the latest idols/Johnny-boys and -TA-DA - instant rankings! Sadly, I don't expect this to change anytime soon...

Oh, and would certainly agree about the comedy boom! It's BIG right now and is bringing in a whole new wave of comedy styles and artists. And yes, it does tend to be quite slapstick and in-your-face... (However, some of it is VERY funny but then again maybe I've lived in Osaka too long!). Comedy/reality shows are much MUCH cheaper to produce than dramas that require scripts/actors/sets/locations so tend to be the mainstay of many TV stations. And sadly, since competition is tough, TV stations seem to think the more out there, the better... Anyway, have gone off the topic of Jdrama so enough rambling...off to watch a Kdrama!

groink · Post by **groink** » Oct 16th, '07, 05:29

Nonbirira wrote:One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the increased competition between the major TV stations and cable. I think a lot of older viewers have abandoned "regular TV" for cable so they can watch exactly what they want to watch (such as Korean/American TV dramas which are EXTREMELY popular!). That leaves younger viewers - so just adapt a popular anime series, add the latest idols/Johnny-boys and -TA-DA - instant rankings!

Wow! Interesting! There's something missing here though.... Between Long Vacation and "Hell with broadcast TV, hello cable!!!!", what happened???? Either:

- cable TV pulled the mature audience away, and the broadcast TV networks.... *sob* I can't EVEN SAY IT!!!!

or

- The crap started coming out, and the mature audience started running for cover.

So what came first? The chicken or the egg?

--- groink

Nonbirira · Post by **Nonbirira** » Oct 16th, '07, 05:45

Get those kleenexs ready, Groink! I think first cable pulled away many of the mature viewers and then as regular TV stations produced more and more "crap" I think many then completely abandoned ship. But that's just my guess... There are still some excellent news analysis/talk shows, but dramas? Hmm...

Also remember that many mature viewers work until late (this country is COMPLETELY NUTS when it comes to work, work and MORE WORK!!) so it's the younger viewers who watch TV the most. Keep them happy and well, you're set!!

AboutDrama · Post by **AboutDrama** » Oct 18th, '07, 16:37

Now I understand why many recent J-dramas are comedy-like+stupid. I tried (very hard)to watch "I Have Been Married to Hell" and "Tiger and dragon" (which seems to popular and with rave reviews). I just can't watch them because the characters portrayed are so stupid and childish. I can't even enjoy their jokes or even laugh. Probably it has to do with culture and the audiences.

About portraying women in dramas... I do find some annoyance on how women are portrayed in K-dramas too. It always seems like women is less intelligence or understanding than men even they are more matured in love... Also seems like women is petty and sometimes (too) evil. rose-land may be right. Probably has to do with yin and yang?

nanorie · Post by **nanorie** » Mar 30th, '08, 19:03

In my opinion the korean woman is almost always portrayed as tomboyish, loud and poor. Then the perfect guy pops up and he must "tame" her like she's some sort of horse who needs attention. The female taiwanese woman is portrayed as a dumb, cute poor little girl who suddenly meets Mr Rich and handsome who'll save her family from poverty and famine. It's like every woman in China and Taiwan longs for something like that will happen to them as well.
Japanese women are mostly portrayed as cute, innocent and reserved girls who'll become the perfect lil' housewives like japanese tradition orders them to.

Have the female portrayal in TV-dramas changed at all during the years or is it the same?

Interesting with the Nodame observation and Mr. Perfect as an answer to the Densha Otoko setting.

Peggy · Post by **Peggy** » Mar 30th, '08, 20:22

Have watched Japanese film for years and always enjoyed all of them. Especially the historical themes. Now I really enjoy the taigas. So much history can be fascinating and I don't see much foolishness and slapstick. It is expected that the world is run by the men but at the same time there are women in the background who are quietly having some influence.

As for modern stuff. Well in fear of my life, I never posted any opinions re Nodame Cantabile.... I could not understand the tremendous outpouring of cheers and bouquets for this stuff. sorry.. I never read the manga but I do consider that is where it should have stayed. The drama was ridiculous and the girl in the story was never to be thought of as a real person. Such manga on film does need a very light directorial hand and it did not get this anywhere.

So..what about the young johnny boys? They are really pushing them into roles in serious dramas where they mostly stick out like a sore thumb. They are the ones who should be in the lighthearted romantic or comedic dramas. At least the older ones from that stable can put some serious acting into what they do.

I think things even themselves out in the end and there should be something for everyone. The silly stuff keeps the young watchers hapy and enthusiastic and the taigas and heavier dramas satisfy me. All I know is that even if Kimura san stood still and recited the alphabet..my bones would melt. But that's just my personal obsession.

Maybe it is Yin and Yang......Must be !!!!!!!!!!!!

Peg

garnet07 · Post by **garnet07** » Apr 5th, '08, 02:55

Just wondering how old everyone is who posted on this topic?

Anyways, I became a fan of Jdoramas from watching Kimura Takuya myself. I've watched like almost all his dramas except for Hero because I really couldn't get passed the first episode ( I just didn't get it ). My favorite Jdorama in fact is Beautiful Life.

Many of you say that the doramas like now are so childish, but that's because most of the dramas coming out are from mangas which are aimed at female followers. Like someone said, it's KAWAII. And I love Nodame Cantabile also. Nodame is an eccentric person, but that's just what makes her likable or unreal. It's a different genre altogether and the music is astounding. Don't judge Nodame from the first episode ( I was about to drop it too, but the premise of classical music, which never could occur to me as something interesting to watch , has its strong points).

Doesn't it really depend on what genre of jdorama you're watching. You shouldn't compare them by how the characters are portrayed because all the actors are only acting their part or how the mangaka/directors wanted them to act.

lomsie · Post by **lomsie** » Apr 5th, '08, 03:34

Kimura Takuya is the only Jonny's boy I've seen do a serious role well. "Bushi no Ichibun" anyone? I didn't see a drop of Jonny's boy in that movie. He's the only actor I've seen come out of the machine that is Jonny's Ent.

The drama that I hate the most is Hana Kimi. I honestly don't understand what is so great. The story is crap, stupidest reason to go to a school , ever (I loved the "American" house at the end<-- sarcasm). The only reason it was so popular was because of the ikemen factor.

The brodcasting channels keep choosing these overly ridiculous mangas to make into dramas. We need more like "LIFE", best drama I've seen in a loooooooong time.

groink · Post by **groink** » Apr 5th, '08, 20:31

garnet07 wrote:Doesn't it really depend on what genre of jdorama you're watching. You shouldn't compare them by how the characters are portrayed because all the actors are only acting their part or how the mangaka/directors wanted them to act.

Although in its purest academic form this is true, it is difficult when you depend on fansubbing. Most of the fansubbers are inspired to sub a show because they love the artists who appear in them, and/or whether or not they've watched/read the story in animed or illustrated form. Think about it - how can someone choose to sub a drama months before episode 1 is even aired? In short, a very high percentage of fansubs today are linked to shojo manga, ikemen manga, anime and Johnny's Jimusho. And people who don't live in areas like California and Hawaii, subs made available by fansubbers is their only resource.

We no longer rely on hardsubbed TV captures like we did before fansubbing became mainstream. Back then, most of the TV caps were in fact shows that received great reviews and ratings, and catered to the mature audience, which is why local TV station like NGN and KIKU spent great amounts of money to license and professionally sub the shows. This process then became a filter of sorts where the only subbed shows available on-line were these shows.

But now many people here are turned off by downloading and watching analog TV captures and VHS rips people like myself and ap upload. The torrents I've uploaded the last two years show that there's a very low completion rate when compared to the fansubs and their high-quality rips.

The fact that most shows subbed on D-Addicts being aimed at anime, manga and female fans is a by-product of the process I just mentioned. This is why I don't watch fansubs anymore, and rely solely on NGN and KIKU for my entertainment. I do watch some stuff put out by JTV and SARS, but that's as far as I go.

--- groink

joykimlee · Post by **joykimlee** » Apr 17th, '08, 21:16

lomsie wrote:Kimura Takuya is the only Jonny's boy I've seen do a serious role well. "Bushi no Ichibun" anyone? I didn't see a drop of Jonny's boy in that movie. He's the only actor I've seen come out of the machine that is Jonny's Ent.

The drama that I hate the most is Hana Kimi. I honestly don't understand what is so great. The story is crap, stupidest reason to go to a school , ever (I loved the "American" house at the end<-- sarcasm). The only reason it was so popular was because of the ikemen factor.

The brodcasting channels keep choosing these overly ridiculous mangas to make into dramas. We need more like "LIFE", best drama I've seen in a loooooooong time.

Kimura Takuya was the only Johnny's boy doing serious roles well. Shingo Katori is also doing it well in Bara No Nai Hanaya.

Oh i so much wana hv an ikemen bf cos i luv Hana Kimi n Nodame Kantabire. Btw, i'm more than 29 and less than 39.

LIFE was great and so r most manga turn live action. Really lookin fwd to Zettai Kareshi.

Back to topic, shows i enjoy most that portray the japanese way are those that revolve around working women like Anego and Haken no Hinkaku. Shinohara-san rox!

EternalCalamari · Post by **EternalCalamari** » Apr 23rd, '08, 11:43

taking out a few exceptions, i've gone back to watching jdorama after watching many kdramas.. why? you might argue that the j-doramas are childish etc..

what really gets on my nerves in k-dramas for example is the way the girls often are portrayed as the hopeless prize that the guys have to fight for.. you can't imagine what anger it has caused me sometimes watching dramas where one guy pulls the girl to this place, then the other comes and snatches her away and so on.. as if they were some sort of donkey they are fighting over?

i always got the impression that i should stop watching every k-drama after 5 episodes, while its still interesting, before the donkey trade begins.. i sadly never managed and still watched the full 28 episodes or so a kdrama usually has -.-

with j-dramas, you do have the trend towards "all things kawaii", so i usually go pick out the series that at least has some sort of entertainment value ( the new puzzle for example reminds me a lot of Trick) , and i generally try to avoid the sugar plum fairy cake dramas like yamada taro monogatari or hanazakari no kimitachi e, or the tear-inducing sob-fiestas like ichi litoru no namida or sekai no chuushin de, ai wo sakebu.. where you watch the first episode and know exactly how the next 10 will be and what horrible fate the protagonist will face in the last episode..

but there are some quality dramas produced even still, think of liar game, life or mop girl just recently..

but although my statement from above, there are some kdramas i could watch 10 times, like for example a love to kill... gets me going every time

lomsie · Post by **lomsie** » May 9th, '08, 17:50

Frankly, I think the ikemen factor greatly limits a drama. Especially ones with unbelievable premises like Hana Kimi. Because those pretty boys are the ONLY thing drawing attention to the show. Try that drama again with less attractive pre-pubescent looking boys and see how well it does.

Sorry, my hate for Hana Kimi is slipping though...

Ladymercury · Post by **Ladymercury** » May 9th, '08, 21:47

I don't think Hana Kimi was written to be serious, let alone dramatic. I mean the manga pretty much sucks and is the worst piece of a crap I've ever read -- But strangely enough I was totally into the drama because it didn't end up like a total wasteland of crap that is the manga.

The show was subtitled " Ikemen Paradise ", that in itself is pretty much letting you know what the show was going to be about. I didn't expect much from it than a laugh. If you don't go in expecting much from it then it wont be so bad.

I really didn't like Hiro's role in this drama because it typecasts him but I dealt with it because I want his career to take off. I still believe his best role was in Watashitachi no Kyoukasho.

I think that Johnny's in dramas is just .... It's like an obligation to have them in a drama because they bring in ratings. Sometimes, lately some of the shows I've seen have had some terrible ratings (Koki Tanaka's drama sucked in ratings). I enjoy watching dramas where that Johnny boy isn't in the typical role, ie Ryo Nishikido's latest role. He's a sweet pretty boy yet he's playing an absolute monster. Takuya Kimura is like THE Johnny actor, I don't even think you can consider him typical Johnny with how much he has accomplished. I'm still at awe from what I saw of him in 2046.

lomsie · Post by **lomsie** » May 10th, '08, 02:44

Well, Kimura Takuya has gone far beyond what the usual Johnny's are today. He was amazing in Bushi no Ichibun. And I was very impressed by Ninomiya (??) in Letters from Iwo Jima.

Yes, Hana Kimi wasn't meant to be serious, but I question the "serious moments" that happen every episode. It's like they're trying to counterbalance all the silly scenes. I guess a lot of the fault falls with the manga. I haven't read it, so I can't say for sure. But behind practically every Japanese drama/movie, there is a manga/novel.

Though I did think the whole Nakatsu "I'm falling in love with a man?!" thing was funny. The only think I laughed at.

Ladymercury · Post by **Ladymercury** » May 10th, '08, 05:14

Ninomiya was unbelievable in Letters from Iwo Jima, which I was wow'd since I really don't see that much in his drama roles.

I do agree wtih you there. The serious scenes in Hana Kimi seemed weak, like thrown in. Personally, but the midpoint of the series I was just watching Hana Kimi for the dorm hijinks rather than the obvious, clearly not dramatic, relationship of Sano and Mizuki.

That is true, almost nearly every drama/movie there is a manga/novel.

I thought Nakatsu was a loveable character but I hated that his character was so clearly shafted. It was annoying to watch. It really annoyed me.

garnet07 · Post by **garnet07** » Jul 8th, '08, 17:56

groink wrote:
garnet07 wrote:Doesn't it really depend on what genre of jdorama you're watching. You shouldn't compare them by how the characters are portrayed because all the actors are only acting their part or how the mangaka/directors wanted them to act.
Although in its purest academic form this is true, it is difficult when you depend on fansubbing. Most of the fansubbers are inspired to sub a show because they love the artists who appear in them, and/or whether or not they've watched/read the story in animed or illustrated form. Think about it - how can someone choose to sub a drama months before episode 1 is even aired? In short, a very high percentage of fansubs today are linked to shojo manga, ikemen manga, anime and Johnny's Jimusho. And people who don't live in areas like California and Hawaii, subs made available by fansubbers is their only resource.

We no longer rely on hardsubbed TV captures like we did before fansubbing became mainstream. Back then, most of the TV caps were in fact shows that received great reviews and ratings, and catered to the mature audience, which is why local TV station like NGN and KIKU spent great amounts of money to license and professionally sub the shows. This process then became a filter of sorts where the only subbed shows available on-line were these shows.

But now many people here are turned off by downloading and watching analog TV captures and VHS rips people like myself and ap upload. The torrents I've uploaded the last two years show that there's a very low completion rate when compared to the fansubs and their high-quality rips.

The fact that most shows subbed on D-Addicts being aimed at anime, manga and female fans is a by-product of the process I just mentioned. This is why I don't watch fansubs anymore, and rely solely on NGN and KIKU for my entertainment. I do watch some stuff put out by JTV and SARS, but that's as far as I go.

--- groink

Now if only they broadcast Japanese hardsubbed in California then this wouldn't be a problem (unless they already do, but I just don't know about it). But yes, I do rely on D-addicts and the fansubbing world to watch any Asian media. And true it also depends on the fansubbers themselves. But usually fansubbers won't waste their time subbing shows that no one would watch.

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The way Japanese people and culture are portrayed

The way Japanese people and culture are portrayed

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