Do you like Japan? Well, Japan doesn't like you!

pubbie · Post by **pubbie** » Nov 14th, '07, 17:23

And yes, I know there are a lot of Japan apologists here. How can a, so called, civilized country like Japan allow this? Whats next? "Gaijin must sit at the back of the buss"?

seirin · Post by **seirin** » Nov 14th, '07, 17:50

Now that is totally untrue. I have never noticed a gaijin sitting at the back of the bus. Course I don't take the bus but I took the train. I saw female gaijin sitting across from me and I wasn't sitting at the back of the train...You sit where there's a seat. The comments are so Japanorama (one-sided)

Okay I stand corrected. I remember taking a bus in Kyoto. I don't recall seeing Gaijin sitting at the back of the bus. It was really packed and everyone was squished like sardines. Didn't see many Gaijin on the bus I suppose.

Sayumi · Post by **Sayumi** » Nov 14th, '07, 17:57

I think it's because they don't know english and want to avoid any unnecessary problems
they don't really hate gaijin ya know, as in some people hate 'niggers' or muslims

theflavoroflife · Post by **theflavoroflife** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:03

Sayumi wrote:I think it's because they don't know english and want to avoid any unnecessary problems
they don't really hate gaijin ya know, as in some people hate 'niggers' or muslims

ok that is so innapropriate what is the n word doing here and muslims? I thought this post was about Japan and foreigner in general?
How retarded!!!

|ZERO| · Post by **|ZERO|** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:06

After watching this clip, I have decided that out of respect for the Japanese people, I will never go to Japan. I do not go where I am not wanted or do not belong.

Sayumi · Post by **Sayumi** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:06

theflavoroflife wrote:
Sayumi wrote:I think it's because they don't know english and want to avoid any unnecessary problems
they don't really hate gaijin ya know, as in some people hate 'niggers' or muslims
ok that is so innapropriate what is the n word doing here and muslims? I thought this post was about Japan and foreigner in general?
How retarded!!!

I didn't mean to upset someone >.< srry!!! I was just saying it's not that they hate foreigners as in 'hate-hate', ya see?
I'm not a racist

theflavoroflife · Post by **theflavoroflife** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:13

Sayumi wrote:
theflavoroflife wrote:
Sayumi wrote:I think it's because they don't know english and want to avoid any unnecessary problems
they don't really hate gaijin ya know, as in some people hate 'niggers' or muslims
ok that is so innapropriate what is the n word doing here and muslims? I thought this post was about Japan and foreigner in general?
How retarded!!!
I didn't mean to upset someone >.< srry!!! I was just saying it's not that they hate foreigners as in 'hate-hate', ya see?
I'm not a racist

well the way you said it was just wayyyy off topic and no one ever use the n word or something like that it's just no appropriate...

|ZERO| · Post by **|ZERO|** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:15

Sayumi , why are you so scared of upsetting people? What you said was very true. According to what I see on the news, Americans and especially Europeans are not happy with the amount of Muslims immigrating to their country in recent years. I don't really think it's a problem but then I am neither American or European. You are from Belgium so what do you think?

rose-land · Post by **rose-land** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:16

not knowing English doesn't give'em the right to kick people out. And what if there is a foreigner who speaks Japanese will they kick him out just cuz he/she isn't accompanied with a Japanese citizen. Should we beg for a Japanese companion before going to such places?????
I really began to reconsider going to Japan

doink-chan · Post by **doink-chan** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:18

Those signs are pretty rare, actually. Most of the signs in the video come from fuuzoku businesses (basically red-light-district places), as well as places like hostess bars. Most other businesses won't have any problems letting in foreign customers. Though there are a couple legit businesses with that kind of sign on them, a lot of times it was because those businesses had had trouble with foreign customers who acted like doinks in the past. Though it's kind of unfair to judge all the foreigners by doinky ones, I suppose doinkies can understand a bit. But again, those signs are not as commonplace as the video might suggest.

(Not to mention the video's uploader obviously has some sort of beef with Japan judging from his comments...)

Sayumi · Post by **Sayumi** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:20

|ZERO| wrote:Sayumi , why are you so scared of upsetting people? What you said was very true. According to what I see on the news, Americans and especially Europeans are not happy with the amount of Muslims immigrating to their country in recent years. I don't really think it's a problem but then I am neither American or European. You are from Belgium so what do you think?

well it's true a lot of foreigners live in my country but I don't want to say anything about it bcz it's offtopic & too complicated too

seirin · Post by **seirin** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:24

Well, I can seriously say I've never seen any of those signs around from the video. If they say that, then you might as well generalize. If you go to America, you will get shot. There's belief that everyone in America carries a gun. So people living in America, do you all carry a gun around?

Some people think Canada is the North pole. There are polar bears and penguins walking around here too and we're covered in snow all year round

Funny...I wore t-shirts in the summer. I must freeze to death.

theflavoroflife · Post by **theflavoroflife** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:27

seirin wrote:Well, I can seriously say I've never seen any of those signs around from the video. If they say that, then you might as well generalize. If you go to America, you will get shot. There's belief that everyone in America carries a gun. So people living in America, do you all carry a gun around?

You guys are so ignorant! Anyway in order to say something about a country you have to live here and see for yourself don't think that what people say is always true because it ain't!

Sayumi · Post by **Sayumi** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:27

seirin wrote:Well, I can seriously say I've never seen any of those signs around from the video. If they say that, then you might as well generalize. If you go to America, you will get shot. There's belief that everyone in America carries a gun. So people living in America, do you all carry a gun around?

yeah, or are you all as stupid as this video suggests?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkYfYa8ePI
I don't think so, right?

battlegirlai · Post by **battlegirlai** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:35

i agree with doink-chan and seirin...things can be generalized and blown way out of context or proportion. its very possible that japan does have racist people in it. all countries do. but is it everyone and every place? not likely or people wouldn't keep going.

and flavoroflife...do you live in japan? because if you are referring to seirins comment about america, you should read more closely. its very true that there is a belief by other countries that if you go to america, everyone has a gun and will shoot you. its not completely accurate. lots of people own guns, most of them won't shoot you. but it happens. its not a good thing tho and doesn't happen to everyone. generalizing isn't a good thing. about any country.

MedallionEchelon · Post by **MedallionEchelon** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:36

Sayumi and theflavoroflife, I think you two need to reread what seiren said. Seiren wasn't saying that all Americans carry guns, seiren was saying that people generalize, and that was the example given.

theflavoroflife · Post by **theflavoroflife** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:38

battlegirlai wrote:i agree with doink-chan and seirin...things can be generalized and blown way out of context or proportion. its very possible that japan does have racist people in it. all countries do. but is it everyone and every place? not likely or people wouldn't keep going.

and flavoroflife...do you live in japan? because if you are referring to seirins comment about america, you should read more closely. its very true that there is a belief by other countries that if you go to america, everyone has a gun and will shoot you. its not completely accurate. lots of people own guns, most of them won't shoot you. but it happens. its not a good thing tho and doesn't happen to everyone. generalizing isn't a good thing. about any country.

Ah lol I live in the USA... I just thought that he was being ignorant that's all. What I meant is that you can't say something about another country on other people's point of view. You have to live there and see for yourself

Sayumi · Post by **Sayumi** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:40

MedallionEchelon wrote:Sayumi and theflavoroflife, I think you two need to reread what seiren said, seiren wasn't saying that all Americans carry guns, he was saying that people generalize and that was the example he was giving.

I read it quite well
what we see sometimes on tv suggests that all american carry guns, so I was giving just another example...
just like the video suggests that japanese ppl are racists

idyanie · Post by **idyanie** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:40

i always adore Japanese because i thought they have that disciplinary thing going on in their life, but knowing this happens..i'm kinda frustrated..
btw, i'm a muslim..and would you guys hate me for it?

battlegirlai · Post by **battlegirlai** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:48

idyanie, no country is perfect. don't use anything like this as a standard to judge any country by. there are good people and bad people everywhere. we just have to see things for ourselves in a wider view. few things look perfect under close scrutiny. you see every flaw blown way out of proportion.

8thSin · Post by **8thSin** » Nov 14th, '07, 18:55

This is a pretty old video... I saw it long time ago

I guess it was on some other forum, I read they were mostly for pirvate clubs and bars. I guess they have taken the exclusiveness of it a bit to the extreme.

nophankh · Post by **nophankh** » Nov 14th, '07, 19:10

To put in my two cents, Every country is racist in some aspect.
What I do know is that Japanese doesn't like to mix their underground activity with tourists.
Most host bars, prostitution establishment does not allow foreigners because of the misconception that all foreigners are dirty and infested with STDs. Also, every country wants to portray their country has something pure, they don't want to be embarrassed by these kinds of activities. I think that is why the signs are there.

I think the signs only applies to shady businesses such as soapland and host bars.

Unless you're planning to go to Japan strictly for the red light district, I don't you need to worry about being discriminated on.

Puppet Princess · Post by **Puppet Princess** » Nov 14th, '07, 19:10

There didn't even seem to be very many signs in the video so I guess that's proof it's not that common. If it was the video maker would have walked down the street taking pictures of every other shop and had like a hundred different signs.

Also, one of the signs even clearly stated why foreigners weren't allowed. No one inside knew English so no one will be able to effectively help them. Tho I think the "foreigners not allowed" is a bit of an over-the-top way to phrase it. I live in Southwest America where signs similar to that are very common. Here shops will have signs saying that there are in no one inside who can speak Spanish as well as ones that say the opposite. No one finds that offensive.

idyanie · Post by **idyanie** » Nov 14th, '07, 19:16

battlegirlai wrote:idyanie, no country is perfect. don't use anything like this as a standard to judge any country by. there are good people and bad people everywhere. we just have to see things for ourselves in a wider view. few things look perfect under close scrutiny. you see every flaw blown way out of proportion.

yeah guess you are right afterall.
somehow i wish that the world could live more peacefully and not care about what race we originate from.

yassie · Post by **yassie** » Nov 14th, '07, 19:27

I went to Japan and the Japanese treated me very good. So I think the video is bull.

I think it's a shame that video's like that give of the wrong message (#-_-#)

a2a · Post by **a2a** » Nov 14th, '07, 20:15

From personal experience (I've been to Japan and such) I didn't notice anything like that. On the contrary! I don't know if knowing Japanese has anything to do with it. I took the bus several times and I never sat in the back (in my country sitting in the back is considered cool btw). I also found that the people were going out of their way to help me too. Well, if foreigners are not allowed in hostess bars or other bussinesses that have to do with the red light district I wouldn't know. Actually one night me and my group wandered into the red lights district in Shibuya and there were people inviting us inside!

emrams · Post by **emrams** » Nov 14th, '07, 20:28

i think it's rediculous to judge japan or japanese people by this 2 minute video done by people. That's ignorance.

Karate-ka · Post by **Karate-ka** » Nov 14th, '07, 20:32

doink-chan wrote:Those signs are pretty rare, actually. Most of the signs in the video come from fuuzoku businesses (basically red-light-district places), as well as places like hostess bars. Most other businesses won't have any problems letting in foreign customers. Though there are a couple legit businesses with that kind of sign on them, a lot of times it was because those businesses had had trouble with foreign customers who acted like doinks in the past. Though it's kind of unfair to judge all the foreigners by doinky ones, I suppose doinkies can understand a bit. But again, those signs are not as commonplace as the video might suggest.

(Not to mention the video's uploader obviously has some sort of beef with Japan judging from his comments...)

By reading your message i starded to think that the video uploader was dissapointed, because maby he wanted to have sex with a japanese prositute but diddnt get in.

but any way some of the comments were flaming on the japanese for world war 2, about the raping thing and denying that it evere happent.

my opinion is why does people still talk about that? Im half Chinese Half indonesian, and my goal is work on a better future the on a bad one. Whats the point on having your hate pas on the next generations.
Certainly i get iritated by people talking about the war even if they werent there.

Maryvel · Post by **Maryvel** » Nov 14th, '07, 20:50

I for one think it's very important to come to terms with your countries past and never forget it. I'm actually waiting for the Japanese to do that too. They will see how it frees them.

And I know what I'm talking about, we were the Germans most avid supporters in WW2 after all.

We learn about all the crimes my country commited extensively in school, including school trips and all that.
I've come to find it very important... but that's going off topic.

Truth is, there are racists in every country and most of the time they are just searching for someone they can blame all their misery on. It's never that easy.

When I saw that video I thought that the signs were just there because a lot of Japanese are really scared of having to speak english. From my experience they are really nice too and most of them will be very happy to make your aquaintance.

The guy who made this clearly has issues with Japan as a whole...

groink · Post by **groink** » Nov 14th, '07, 21:21

Maryvel wrote:The guy who made this clearly has issues with Japan as a whole...

Exactly! Consider the source anytime you see propaganda like this. An uploader doesn't just post videos like this on YouTube for the fun of it.

--- groink

pubbie · Post by **pubbie** » Nov 14th, '07, 21:26

Here's another video I saw today:
Koreans bought some land in Japan, guess what happened..
Oh and note the end of the video, observe what the police do and try thinking about what they should have done. The people with the megaphones were CLEARLY distrubing the peace.

Wow, the apologists are coming out of the woodwork! Its funny that these type of threads always go down the "you're generalizing, that's ignorant"-road, that's a neat trick of diverting attention... The question remains unanswered: How can a, so called, civilized country like Japan allow this?

If anyone put up a sign that said "Non-Americans not welcome" the ACLU would come down on that place quick-like. Same thing here in Sweden.

"But they don't want problems because some foreigners cant speak Japanese" <-- This argument is so ridiculous its not even funny.

Non-Japanese should still go to Japan and show them how wrong they are about foreigners, that is what I am going to do. About the Muslim immigration thing, Sweden has taken in more Iraqis than all of America since the start of the Iraqi war and I have yet to read any article being negative towards them.

doink-chan Those signs are signs of Segregation... Its 2007...

You guys don't get it... It's as if you haven't even heard the speech Dr. Martin Luther King gave about segregation... does "I have a dream" ring a bell? think he gave that speech just for FUN?

By the way, in Nazi-Germany they used to have signs that read: "No dogs, No Jews".

20centuryboy · Post by **20centuryboy** » Nov 14th, '07, 21:40

By the way, in Nazi-Germany they used to have signs that read: "No dogs, No Jews".

In england there's some "no dogs no french" signs. I think every countries have those kind of things... except sweden maybe.

battlegirlai · Post by **battlegirlai** » Nov 14th, '07, 21:48

how can they allow it? i have no idea...i know nothing of japanese laws. i have no idea if its against the law there or not. a handful of signs on privately owned establishments don't keep me awake at night no matter what country they are in...even my own. signs like that won't keep me from going to japan.

maybe they ARE doing something about it. maybe they aren't. maybe its perfectly ok for private establishments to have membership systems. maybe maybe maybe...anything. we aren't there. we don't know. a blurb on a youtube video isn't going to make me think horrible things about an entire country. the examples were too few and inconclusive and weren't effective enough to sway me in any way.

some people just start freaking out at the slightest things. i guess i'm not one of them

doink-chan · Post by **doink-chan** » Nov 14th, '07, 21:59

Again, the people who were protesting against the Koreans buying land in the 2nd video looked to be a small group of extremists. Though they are loud, and definitely doinks, these extremists aren't representative of the entire Japanese population. As a counterpoint, I offer this article:
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/ ... 50017.html
Basically a Korean woman sued a landlord in Kyoto for not letting her rent an apartment because she was a foreigner, and the court ruled partially in her favor and the landlord had to pay a fine in compensation. If the extremists in the video really represented what the majority of Japanese people thought about foreigners renting/buying real estate, I doubt that the court would have ruled in this woman's favor.

Issy · Post by **Issy** » Nov 14th, '07, 22:02

20centuryboy wrote:[quoBy the way, in Nazi-Germany they used to have signs that read: "No dogs, No Jews".

In england there's some "no dogs no french" signs. I think every countries have those kind of things... except sweden maybe.

[/quote]

This is totally and utterly rubbish, i am no Brit but living here for more than decade and has not seen any such signs anywhere. actually people think that political correctness i has even gone too far regarding different races/cultures/religions.
if you just saying this for any reasons, you better not post anything you are not sure of and if you have seen it with your own eyes, then you could have complianed about this discrimination and i am 100% sure that that you could have won your case.

20centuryboy · Post by **20centuryboy** » Nov 14th, '07, 22:13

Issy wrote:This is totally and utterly rubbish, i am no Brit but living here for more than decade and has not seen any such signs anywhere. actually people think that political correctness i has even gone too far regarding different races/cultures/religions.
if you just saying this for any reasons, you better not post anything you are not sure of and if you have seen it with your own eyes, then you could have complianed about this discrimination and i am 100% sure that that you could have won your case.

well, maybe you haven't seen everything yet. I saw them in some pubs. I don't understand why you make this so personnal wich was absolutely not the point of my post. the "no dogs no jews" reminded me that sign, that's all. It was at times you probably weren't even born.I guess you believe you've seen it all...

In belgium they exclude people from their own country.

you can't make something general just from one exemple just like you can't say it doesn't exist just because you never saw it ( especially if you were born yesterday and didn't saw much).

OvertheRainbow · Post by **OvertheRainbow** » Nov 14th, '07, 22:21

If there is racism in Japan, I don't think I'll believe it from watching a youtube video that only shows pictures of signs. For all I know, those signs could have been taken out of context or maybe they're just badly translated. Like the one where it says "foreigners are not allowed to go in without Japanese"...that could have been a sign from some museum or something. Just posting pictures as proof of racism without analyzing it and providing the background info is not a strong argument.

Issy · Post by **Issy** » Nov 14th, '07, 22:41

20centuryboy wrote:
Issy wrote:This is totally and utterly rubbish, i am no Brit but living here for more than decade and has not seen any such signs anywhere. actually people think that political correctness i has even gone too far regarding different races/cultures/religions.
if you just saying this for any reasons, you better not post anything you are not sure of and if you have seen it with your own eyes, then you could have complianed about this discrimination and i am 100% sure that that you could have won your case.
well, maybe you haven't seen everything yet. I saw them in some pubs. I don't understand why you make this so personnal wich was absolutely not the point of my post. the "no dogs no jews" reminded me that sign, that's all. It was at times you probably weren't even born.I guess you believe you've seen it all...

In belgium they exclude people from their own country.

you can't make something general just from one exemple just like you can't say it doesn't exist just because you never saw it ( especially if you were born yesterday and didn't saw much).

oh, believe me i did not take it personally. that is what i said, if you have seen it with your own eyes, you could have complained. i think in some years way back in lots of countires there were lots of racist issues and signs but at this date and age, because mose of countries have some multi-cultural thing going on, they are not seen as much as before.
and its not that i have been born yesterday (actually not much age difference between us) and i have seen enough to make this commment. i lived in many countires and i have seen those cases where people in their country get exculded too.

Gozen · Post by **Gozen** » Nov 14th, '07, 22:45

I'm older than you, 20th century boy, and I'm English. I can state quite happily, without fear of contradiction, that the only people not welcome in England are the English. If you saw a sign, and I don't doubt you, it was almost certainly meant as a joke. No, it isn't funny, unless you are a drunken Brit. I have French blood from my grandfather, and I don't have a problem with the French, but with several hundred years of war between our two countries, and very, very different ways of being, there are some Brits who just don't like the French. And vice versa. You know it's true.
If anybody said the sign was offensive, if they reported it, it would be removed. End of. But if you saw it "years" ago, before the laws changed, then it was almost certainly in a pub where French people wouldn't be seen dead anyway because it would be a dive (and I don't blame them, some pubs are really nasty).
Pubbie: As for the Japanese not liking foreigners, so bloody what? They can be exactly the way they want to be, they don't have to justify or explain themselves to anyone. Having travelled the length and breadth of Japan, I have never, ever come across people who were anti-foreigners. I've only come across situations where their complete lack of spoken English made them feel embarrassed and put them in difficulties.
To say "they" don't like foreigners, when "they" is 127 million people, is a generalisation of breathtaking and utterly racist proportions. This isn't the first time you've had a dig at the Japanese, so why on earth watch their shows? Why even think about them if you don't like them?
To me, the real racist here is Pubbie.

fairytwix · Post by **fairytwix** » Nov 14th, '07, 22:47

ok...here's my own two cents...

i agree with everyone that the video is not to be taken too seriously..in media..everyone cud distort a lot of information to suit their intended outcome, which in this case, making us think that Japanese people are racist. Never entirely trust what the media will tell you. Heck, they say the Philippines is always having Civil Wars and Filipinos are waging war against each other, but believe me, THAT IS NOT TRUE. Yes, there is war. But on a SMALL SCALE. Not even the entire country is involved.

Secondly, I won't be saying that EVERY SINGLE JAPANASE person is not a racist, but, there will always be at least 1 out of 10 Japanese who will come out as a racist. Either consciously or subconsciously. It is true in every society that we are living in.We may be in the 21st Century as you would call it, and people might say that racism should be stomped out(and i agree), but there would always be an odd number of people out there who will stick to their beliefs. And remember, it is hard to convince someone who truly believe they are right, that they are in fact - WRONG. In this case, you could say, to each his own?? Even here in England there is racism. It may not be as visible as in other countries, but its still there. But then again, England is a multi-cultural country, which as a result, made a lot of other people tolerant of other culture's and respected each other. And a lot of us even like the culture itself, and try to adopt some of their beliefs and stuff into our own lives.

I have met a lot of Japanese people, and many of them are really eager to learn more about another person's culture. As we all are, considering we are all in this forum. I don't think it's good to generalise and pigeon-hole an entire society just from a selected few "signs" that you have seen. In fact, I have an example for that. Back in the past, when Europe was dominant in Shanghai, the Chinese Community has to stay in what is now still called "OLD TOWN". While the rest of Shanghai was inhabited by Europeans. There was even a sign that says: "No dogs or Chinese allowed". It's gone now of course. With this say, would you be saying that the entire European Community is RACIST? NO.

Anyway, a video or two isn't reliable enough to convince me about the Japanese being racist. Give me FACTS and Statistics, and you might be able to convince me. I want some CONCRETE PROOFS. Something that has been verified by a lot of scholars or specialists in their fields, and i might believe you. And with that, I end this post.

P.S. theflavoroflife and Sayumi ~ i think what seirin was trying to say is what we call "sarcasm"... read it again and you'll see...

Oh, and one more thing i want to add about the signs. There could be a couple of reasons for that. Yes it could be that some are being "RACIST" as you would call it. But it could also be that they are licensed only for the Japanese or locals or w/e you wanna call them. Idk if that wud be the case for Japan. But I have to say, that in China, there are some hotels w/c don't accept foreigners as they are not licensed to do so.
Or maybe none of the people there speaks ENGLISH?

Spielbol · Post by **Spielbol** » Nov 14th, '07, 22:47

http://www.debito.org/index.php and check out the rogue's gallery if you want to see some more signs re: no gaijin.

A bit leaning to the left, but some of the stuff on that site sounds true. Up to you to believe or not.

xenophobia with misconceptions -> no gaijin signs = racism. I believe everybody has a little racist deep inside them without exceptions. I just hope Japan as a country doesn't become a full-fledged national socialist movement.

Issy · Post by **Issy** » Nov 14th, '07, 23:05

Gozen wrote:I'm older than you, 20th century boy, and I'm English. I can state quite happily, without fear of contradiction, that the only people not welcome in England are the English. If you saw a sign, and I don't doubt you, it was almost certainly meant as a joke. No, it isn't funny, unless you are a drunken Brit. I have French blood from my grandfather, and I don't have a problem with the French, but with several hundred years of war between our two countries, and very, very different ways of being, there are some Brits who just don't like the French. And vice versa. You know it's true.
If anybody said the sign was offensive, if they reported it, it would be removed. End of. But if you saw it "years" ago, before the laws changed, then it was almost certainly in a pub where French people wouldn't be seen dead anyway because it would be a dive (and I don't blame them, some pubs are really nasty).
Pubbie: As for the Japanese not liking foreigners, so bloody what? They can be exactly the way they want to be, they don't have to justify or explain themselves to anyone. Having travelled the length and breadth of Japan, I have never, ever come across people who were anti-foreigners. I've only come across situations where their complete lack of spoken English made them feel embarrassed and put them in difficulties.
To say "they" don't like foreigners, when "they" is 127 million people, is a generalisation of breathtaking and utterly racist proportions. This isn't the first time you've had a dig at the Japanese, so why on earth watch their shows? Why even think about them if you don't like them?
To me, the real racist here is Pubbie.

I could not say it any better.
as for Japan Issue, i have been to japan this March is did not see any signs like this at all. as gozen said, that only problem that keeps away from mixing with foreigners much is because of poor knowledge of English languge of general people on the street, otherwise, i found them very polite and nice people.

Gir · Post by **Gir** » Nov 14th, '07, 23:22

20centuryboy wrote:
By the way, in Nazi-Germany they used to have signs that read: "No dogs, No Jews".
In england there's some "no dogs no french" signs. I think every countries have those kind of things... except sweden maybe.

Nah..even Sweden has them.

Nonbirira · Post by **Nonbirira** » Nov 15th, '07, 00:00

Like any country, Japan has it's ugly side. However, after many years of permanent residency in Japan I'd like to make the following comments:
1) Yes, these signs exist. However, I have never seen one. Nor do I personally know anyone who has. (I believe the pictures in the YouTube video come from Debito Arudo's website. Although originally American he became a Japanese citizen in 1996 and is a social activist in Japan. He has been involved in several law suits against shop owners who post such signs and often writes about social issues for the Japan Times. Just google his name for more info.)
2) As has been mentioned, when such sighs are posted they tend to be used by businesses that are on the ...hmm...shall I say "shady" side. Not that this gives them the right to do it - but the the sign probably isn't the only human rights offense taking place.
3) Often the signs are posted to minimize risk - the shop has probably had trouble with non-Japanese visitors in the past who didn't understand what was expected. Rather than take the trouble to make sure non-Japanese visitors understand what to do , the short cut is just to post a sign. Although offensive, the sign poster may not necessarily be a rampant racist...just lazy and very unaware.
4) Some of those signs said Members Only. That in itself is not racist. Such venues are quite common in Japan. There are many old-style places in Kyoto (think geisha) that only accept a guest if that person has been invited by a member. No personal connection? No entry!! Race, in this case, is irrelevant.
5) The majority of Japanese would be greatly offended by such signs. But remember, the type of Japanese people who would be most offended by such signs are the type who would rarely visit places that would post such signs! Debito Arudo has been very instrumental in introducing such issues to the Japanese public and has recieved a LOT of support.
I'm sure I have lots more to say but my morning coffee has yet to kick in...
Summary - yes, these sign do exist but they are not an indication that racism is rampant in Japan.

Puppet Princess · Post by **Puppet Princess** » Nov 15th, '07, 00:37

Signs or no signs, establishments still have the right to refuse service to whoever they want. Sure in America you would be forced to take down such a sign so fast it would make your head spin. But the sign means nothing. If you don't want to let a certain type of person into your business (or property) no one can stop you. Even if it is racist it is still with in their rights. Who would want to go into a place that doesn't welcome them anyways? Just go across the street to the store that welcomes you.

In my experience, most of the Japanese people who are "not so nice" to foreigners are kind of old. And they are no different than people in America (and any other country). I know my grandmother haaaates Japanese people. And though I do know she is in fact racist I understand that it's because she comes from an era and place in the world where racism was the normal way of life. (I know it's bad but her reaction to my cousin marrying an Indian-English man was hilarious to me.) I know the way she thinks is not her fault and it's already too late to change it. Trying only results in a headache and she has no contact with anyone she would offend or influence with her racism so I just let the little comments slide.

I know she hates Japanese people in particular because she was a nurse in WWII and had to watch her friends and even strangers die very gruesome deaths. Of course something like that would put hate in your heart. The majority of that generation has a lot of hate and resentment in them. It's the same on Japan's side.

And though I understand where the root of her racism comes from I still get frustrated with her for saying such stupid things. But this is because my life is basically the exact opposite of hers. I was born and raised in Hawaii, which is like a miniature world with every race and culture present. Most of my friends there are at least part Asian and interracial marriage is normal.

The thing is, though racism will always exist in some degree, discrimination has been becoming less predominant with each generation we get farther away from our countries past conflicts. Once everyone who was actually "there" is gone each countries conflict with another will loose the personal grudges and they will eventually become just another page in our history texts. Likewise as we all come into contact with other races more we become more understanding and accepting. It wasn't that long ago that everyone hated everyone else. As a species we have made great progress in such a short time. However, we still have a long way to go.

It seems to me that the topic starter was trying to start a conflict or something by singling out Japan for something the whole world does. If you wanted a discussion about racism why didn't you also include articles about the modern KKK, Neo Nazi's, and terrorist extremists? What exactly makes Japan's racism special?

^ Those are actually much worse then a stupid sign. And are probably more worth discussing.

doink-chan · Post by **doink-chan** » Nov 15th, '07, 00:38

Nonbirira wrote:Like any country, Japan has it's ugly side. However, after many years of permanent residency in Japan I'd like to make the following comments:
1) Yes, these signs exist. However, I have never seen one. Nor do I personally know anyone who has. (I believe the pictures in the YouTube video come from Debito Arudo's website. Although originally American he became a Japanese citizen in 1996 and is a social activist in Japan. He has been involved in several law suits against shop owners who post such signs and often writes about social issues for the Japan Times. Just google his name for more info.)
2) As has been mentioned, when such sighs are posted they tend to be used by businesses that are on the ...hmm...shall I say "shady" side. Not that this gives them the right to do it - but the the sign probably isn't the only human rights offense taking place.
3) Often the signs are posted to minimize risk - the shop has probably had trouble with non-Japanese visitors in the past who didn't understand what was expected. Rather than take the trouble to make sure non-Japanese visitors understand what to do , the short cut is just to post a sign. Although offensive, the sign poster may not necessarily be a rampant racist...just lazy and very unaware.
4) Some of those signs said Members Only. That in itself is not racist. Such venues are quite common in Japan. There are many old-style places in Kyoto (think geisha) that only accept a guest if that person has been invited by a member. No personal connection? No entry!! Race, in this case, is irrelevant.
5) The majority of Japanese would be greatly offended by such signs. But remember, the type of Japanese people who would be most offended by such signs are the type who would rarely visit places that would post such signs! Debito Arudo has been very instrumental in introducing such issues to the Japanese public and has recieved a LOT of support.
I'm sure I have lots more to say but my morning coffee has yet to kick in...
Summary - yes, these sign do exist but they are not an indication that racism is rampant in Japan.

I agree with this comment. Though there are signs like that, they are definitely not commonly seen. (Heck, even on Debito's page there are only about 24-30 or so signs listed and that's in over 10 years, and some of those signs were taken down after the Debito Brigade™ complained about them.) I also agree about the Members Only signs. One of the signs even said "All foreigners must be members", so I assume that the place that had that sign probably doesn't have any problem with letting foreigners join their club or whatever so that they can enter.

theflavoroflife · Post by **theflavoroflife** » Nov 15th, '07, 01:02

Puppet Princess wrote:Signs or no signs, establishments still have the right to refuse service to whoever they want. Sure in America you would be forced to take down such a sign so fast it would make your head spin. But the sign means nothing. If you don't want to let a certain type of person into your business (or property) no one can stop you. Even if it is racist it is still with in their rights. Who would want to go into a place that doesn't welcome them anyways? Just go across the street to the store that welcomes you.

In my experience, most of the Japanese people who are "not so nice" to foreigners are kind of old. And they are no different than people in America (and any other country). I know my grandmother haaaates Japanese people. And though I do know she is in fact racist I understand that it's because she comes from an era and place in the world where racism was the normal way of life. (I know it's bad but her reaction to my cousin marrying an Indian-English man was hilarious to me.) I know the way she thinks is not her fault and it's already too late to change it. Trying only results in a headache and she has no contact with anyone she would offend or influence with her racism so I just let the little comments slide.

^ Those are actually much worse then a stupid sign. And are probably more worth discussing.

I know she hates Japanese people in particular because she was a nurse in WWII and had to watch her friends and even strangers die very gruesome deaths. Of course something like that would put hate in your heart. The majority of that generation has a lot of hate and resentment in them. It's the same on Japan's side.

And though I understand where the root of her racism comes from I still get frustrated with her for saying such stupid things. But this is because my life is basically the exact opposite of hers. I was born and raised in Hawaii, which is like a miniature world with every race and culture present. Most of my friends there are at least part Asian and interracial marriage is normal.

The thing is, though racism will always exist in some degree, discrimination has been becoming less predominant with each generation we get farther away from our countries past conflicts. Once everyone who was actually "there" is gone each countries conflict with another will loose the personal grudges and they will eventually become just another page in our history texts. Likewise as we all come into contact with other races more we become more understanding and accepting. It wasn't that long ago that everyone hated everyone else. As a species we have made great progress in such a short time. However, we still have a long way to go.

It seems to me that the topic starter was trying to start a conflict or something by singling out Japan for something the whole world does. If you wanted a discussion about racism why didn't you also include articles about the modern KKK, Neo Nazi's, and terrorist extremists? What exactly makes Japan's racism special?

^ Those are actually much worse then a stupid sign. And are probably more worth discussing.

Totally agree with you

battlegirlai · Post by **battlegirlai** » Nov 15th, '07, 01:14

now now, i don't think the topic starter was trying to start a conflict or anything. its unfair to assume such a thing. something like that happening in a country they like was probably something of a shock and they wanted to share what they had learned to get more opinions.

everyone has had some sort of idolized idea in their mind that didn't turn out exactly as they had hoped. santa claus, the tooth fairy, a favorite celebrity, etc.

we learn to see the bigger picture and accept that no one (and no place) is perfect.

KeitaroNagato · Post by **KeitaroNagato** » Nov 15th, '07, 04:17

battlegirlai wrote:now now, i don't think the topic starter was trying to start a conflict or anything. its unfair to assume such a thing. something like that happening in a country they like was probably something of a shock and they wanted to share what they had learned to get more opinions.

everyone has had some sort of idolized idea in their mind that didn't turn out exactly as they had hoped. santa claus, the tooth fairy, a favorite celebrity, etc.

we learn to see the bigger picture and accept that no one (and no place) is perfect.

THE WORLD IS NOW MOVING TO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

I'm not to sure how long that was, but Japan culture is moving different than it was during the past, specially last decade. Yes, most of it was in the past, but because of technology and communication (like the internet) has made the world more understanding and accepting.

My parents when they came to North America, in the past had hard times as well. Calling them racist names, it doesn't matter if they were Oriental or Latin. The folks in the past were more crueler then it is now. Have you ever wonder why Japan is more accepted to all Asians and Latin/South Americas instead of rest of the world? Well, because of common understanding and acceptance. Now as the world is moving closer, the culture is also moving not only the Asian and Latin/South Americas but to the rest of the world.

Even today, people look at me not as a born North American, but as either Oriental and/or Latino. Many think I cannot read or write in english, until I open my mouth and they all seems to take a step back. BUT... the way things are now, is not the way it was during my parents time. Most people are more lay-back and more loving then it was before. I grew up of loving people of every culture, and wanting to experience more. I have relatives in Japan, South America and now in North America. I consider everyone equally, we are all FAMILY. AND... as family, we are moving closer in a new direction.

KeitaroNagato · Post by **KeitaroNagato** » Nov 15th, '07, 04:46

Maryvel wrote:I for one think it's very important to come to terms with your countries past and never forget it. I'm actually waiting for the Japanese to do that too. They will see how it frees them.

And I know what I'm talking about, we were the Germans most avid supporters in WW2 after all. We learn about all the crimes my country commited extensively in school, including school trips and all that.
I've come to find it very important... but that's going off topic.

Truth is, there are racists in every country and most of the time they are just searching for someone they can blame all their misery on. It's never that easy.

When I saw that video I thought that the signs were just there because a lot of Japanese are really scared of having to speak english. From my experience they are really nice too and most of them will be very happy to make your aquaintance.

The guy who made this clearly has issues with Japan as a whole...

When I went to japan to visit my relatives, the neighbors and ppl around where very very happy that I could talk in english and Japanese, I help some of them with translating songs from good ol' Frank Sinatra and the Barenake Ladies. Even when I saw a turist from elsewhere, the neighbors really go out of their way to help them (well, since I was staying for a few weeks, my aunt's neighbor would barge in literally, take me out of bed, and told me that someone that doesn't speak Japanese is having trouble to go to a destination).

As my experience, the culture is very helpful nowadays. I believe that video is very old it contradicts the way things are now.

Karate-ka · Post by **Karate-ka** » Nov 15th, '07, 13:08

posting this dumb video doesnt make any diffrents about how i think of japan, ofcourse i dont know how japan is but using sites like this totally wrong. why the hell give people only attention to bad things??? There are so many things about japan we dont know so why should we complain about one video???

I got a classmate who said that japanese people are dumb, freaks, and are greedy. and that the only thing good about japan is anime.
He talks like he knows everything, but he's never been there so i think he should shut the f*ck up.

PocketKiriyama · Post by **PocketKiriyama** » Nov 15th, '07, 13:38

Nonbirira wrote:Like any country, Japan has it's ugly side. However, after many years of permanent residency in Japan I'd like to make the following comments:
1) Yes, these signs exist. However, I have never seen one. Nor do I personally know anyone who has. (I believe the pictures in the YouTube video come from Debito Arudo's website. Although originally American he became a Japanese citizen in 1996 and is a social activist in Japan. He has been involved in several law suits against shop owners who post such signs and often writes about social issues for the Japan Times. Just google his name for more info.)
2) As has been mentioned, when such sighs are posted they tend to be used by businesses that are on the ...hmm...shall I say "shady" side. Not that this gives them the right to do it - but the the sign probably isn't the only human rights offense taking place.
3) Often the signs are posted to minimize risk - the shop has probably had trouble with non-Japanese visitors in the past who didn't understand what was expected. Rather than take the trouble to make sure non-Japanese visitors understand what to do , the short cut is just to post a sign. Although offensive, the sign poster may not necessarily be a rampant racist...just lazy and very unaware.
4) Some of those signs said Members Only. That in itself is not racist. Such venues are quite common in Japan. There are many old-style places in Kyoto (think geisha) that only accept a guest if that person has been invited by a member. No personal connection? No entry!! Race, in this case, is irrelevant.
5) The majority of Japanese would be greatly offended by such signs. But remember, the type of Japanese people who would be most offended by such signs are the type who would rarely visit places that would post such signs! Debito Arudo has been very instrumental in introducing such issues to the Japanese public and has recieved a LOT of support.
I'm sure I have lots more to say but my morning coffee has yet to kick in...
Summary - yes, these sign do exist but they are not an indication that racism is rampant in Japan.

Darnit Nobirira, you took the words out of my mind!
I entirely agree with you.
BTW if anyone have doubts just take a trip to japan.
Apparently I wanted to attend a Siam Shade concert in Nippon Budokan on November 18th but work is crazy right now. Maybe I'll just get the videos.
Guess I'll switch jobs soon.

Alveric · Post by **Alveric** » Nov 15th, '07, 13:42

OMG If you care about the video so much just email CNN telling them about it, as soon as they broadcast it all those signs will disappear from across Japan, since Japanese people and certainly the Japanse Government CARE TO A RIDICULOUS EXTENT about how the world sees them.

That's all it takes.

Racism? Everywhere in the planet, your country, my country, their country.

Getting better? Went to Japan recently and met only friendly people. Some of them even tried to speak Spanish to me (using me as a dialoguepractice person I guess, for their Spanish lessons). That's SPANISH, mind you, NOT ENGLISH, which is far more spoken.

Let's just not generalize these things and blow them out of context, people, really.

tengue17 · Post by **tengue17** » Nov 15th, '07, 15:20

Alveric wrote: Racism? Everywhere in the planet, your country, my country, their country.

yeah yeah! absolutely!
I've been living in japan for 9 years, and i found some of them are racists. Just some, not many. Mostly, just worried about the misunderstanding that might happen. More than half of the most (which is already the most) are willing to learn the differences, and how to get around. So, overall, not a problem at all.

I found thoose old people especially living in the remote cities are far nicer than people living in the big city. Well, the same thing happen in my own country Indonesia. Those people lives in remote area usually are nicer people. Don't know why.

Well, Everyone is a bit of a racist, said AvenueQ. I've been a victim of a racism too, in my own country!! By an a$$ of the same ethnicity. hahaha stupid isn't it?

Karate-ka · Post by **Karate-ka** » Nov 15th, '07, 15:37

tengue17 wrote:
Alveric wrote: Racism? Everywhere in the planet, your country, my country, their country.
yeah yeah! absolutely!
I've been living in japan for 9 years, and i found some of them are racists. Just some, not many. Mostly, just worried about the misunderstanding that might happen. More than half of the most (which is already the most) are willing to learn the differences, and how to get around. So, overall, not a problem at all.

I found thoose old people especially living in the remote cities are far nicer than people living in the big city. Well, the same thing happen in my own country Indonesia. Those people lives in remote area usually are nicer people. Don't know why.

Well, Everyone is a bit of a racist, said AvenueQ. I've been a victim of a racism too, in my own country!! By an a$$ of the same ethnicity. hahaha stupid isn't it?

My mother is mixed chinese indonesian and she experienced it too.

SP1CA · Post by **SP1CA** » Nov 15th, '07, 15:46

Sayumi wrote:
theflavoroflife wrote:
Sayumi wrote:I think it's because they don't know english and want to avoid any unnecessary problems
they don't really hate gaijin ya know, as in some people hate 'niggers' or muslims
ok that is so innapropriate what is the n word doing here and muslims? I thought this post was about Japan and foreigner in general?
How retarded!!!
I didn't mean to upset someone >.< srry!!! I was just saying it's not that they hate foreigners as in 'hate-hate', ya see?
I'm not a racist

well, you can call them as ''niggers''

it's no good, you can say ''afican-american'' or ''african-origined'' guess

otherwise it sounds rude, probably you hadn't known that before writing here.

SP1CA · Post by **SP1CA** » Nov 15th, '07, 15:50

idyanie wrote:i always adore Japanese because i thought they have that disciplinary thing going on in their life, but knowing this happens..i'm kinda frustrated..
btw, i'm a muslim..and would you guys hate me for it?

i'm muslim, too. well, i don't think anyone would dislike me without knowing me in person

especially the japanese ones, cause i like them really much

people's thoughts and feelings are just a reflection of each other's. if you ignore someone, then that people starts to ignore you, too. it's like that.

SP1CA · Post by **SP1CA** » Nov 15th, '07, 15:56

Puppet Princess wrote: Also, one of the signs even clearly stated why foreigners weren't allowed. No one inside knew English so no one will be able to effectively help them. Tho I think the "foreigners not allowed" is a bit of an over-the-top way to phrase it. I live in Southwest America where signs similar to that are very common. Here shops will have signs saying that there are in no one inside who can speak Spanish as well as ones that say the opposite. No one finds that offensive.

you're probably right

20centuryboy wrote:
By the way, in Nazi-Germany they used to have signs that read: "No dogs, No Jews".
In england there's some "no dogs no french" signs. I think every countries have those kind of things... except sweden maybe.

in SOAD concerts, it's ''no dogs, no Turks''

also because i'm Turk and Muslim, i think people may love me more

cause they know that i'm a good person

(now i'm being racist

but we're mostly cool people

)

Néa Vanille · Post by **Néa Vanille** » Nov 15th, '07, 16:04

Maybe some of these signs that say "Japanese only" mean "only Japanese spoken/understood" rather than "only Japanese people"? I know on some of the signs you could tell them from the Japanese script they meant Japanese people, but the other ones could very well refer to the language.

Why do I think this? Go on Skype and look for people in Japan, at least half of them will have "Japanese only" in their profiles. Pretty much all of them mean "Japanese language only" with that.

Setting up signs surely is outrageous, but just because there are fewer signs in the West doesn't mean there is no racism in clubs! Where I'm from in Europe, some foreigners (Asians are generally okay, dark-skinned people and Muslims less so) are not let into night clubs as well and are simply turned away by the bouncer with "you're not dressed appropriately" or "the club is full" or "sorry, just go home" while they freely and liberally admit natives. The reason behind it is because they have had bad experience with foreigners in the past and native women generally prefer foreigner-free clubs. No, they don't put up signs (if they did, they would be sued), but they get away with inofficial discrimination. Because it's their club, and clubs are notorious for not adhering to the general standards of equality.

tengue17 · Post by **tengue17** » Nov 15th, '07, 16:12

Karate-ka wrote: My mother is mixed chinese indonesian and she experienced it too.

sorry to say, but yeah, i'm sure she did. unfortunately, ppl of my ethnicity are usually the offender (of racism).

But our condition is still better than our neighbour, Malaysia. Even many of the malay students here dont talk to each other (malay <--> chinese).

for thoose who don't know whats going on in Indonesia, chinese ethnicity in Indonesia is usually harrased by the native. They said it's based on envy/ jealousy, or whats left from the "devide and conquer" politics from the dutch colonization long time ago.

Oh yeah, i feel quite a discrimination here in japan especially towards Philippine and Chinese nationality. But they don't do that to "white" people. I don't hear much of japanese discrimination towards the koreans either. Although i hear a lot about the opposite in Korea. Is that true, Nea?

(now guys, are you going to say i'm racist because i said "white"? Well, i might be a racist. But please believe me, no bad intention)

seirin · Post by **seirin** » Nov 15th, '07, 17:10

I guess maybe I don't live there, but I haven't had any discrimination while I was in Japan visiting. But I do have Chinese friends who don't like Japanese people and I do know some Koreans don't like Japanese. If one has to name any country that is racist free, I would say none exist. So I don't see the point in this discussion.

SP1CA · Post by **SP1CA** » Nov 15th, '07, 17:32

Néa Vanille wrote: Where I'm from in Europe, some foreigners (Asians are generally okay, dark-skinned people and Muslims less so) are not let into night clubs as well and are simply turned away by the bouncer with "you're not dressed appropriately" or "the club is full" or "sorry, just go home" while they freely and liberally admit natives. The reason behind it is because they have had bad experience with foreigners in the past and native women generally prefer foreigner-free clubs. No, they don't put up signs (if they did, they would be sued), but they get away with inofficial discrimination. Because it's their club, and clubs are notorious for not adhering to the general standards of equality.

i'm a blonde muslim

so it must be an advantage in Europe

dad's been abroad so many times. once he had a trip in USA; this year in summer me and another friends talked about work&travel so much

when i talk to dad about visiting USA (well, USA is not on the first place on my list actually

i want to see Japan and Italy first) he said, probably they'll treat you bad cause you're a Turk, jokingly i said; but dad i'm blonde

(he's dark-skinned)

yes, it's not a clever joke

SP1CA · Post by **SP1CA** » Nov 15th, '07, 17:37

seirin wrote:I guess maybe I don't live there, but I haven't had any discrimination while I was in Japan visiting. But I do have Chinese friends who don't like Japanese people and I do know some Koreans don't like Japanese. If one has to name any country that is racist free, I would say none exist. So I don't see the point in this discussion.

a few days ago i argued with a chinese friend who hates the japanese

first he insulted them, then when i defend them, he insulted me,too

but once he said that the chinese vs the japanese there was a war and because of it he doesn't like them much. but it doesn't mean he can insult my precious japanese people

idyanie · Post by **idyanie** » Nov 15th, '07, 17:45

the idea is not to be a racist, then maybe we could change the world a bit, if not for the better.

Karate-ka · Post by **Karate-ka** » Nov 15th, '07, 18:09

SP1CA wrote:
seirin wrote:I guess maybe I don't live there, but I haven't had any discrimination while I was in Japan visiting. But I do have Chinese friends who don't like Japanese people and I do know some Koreans don't like Japanese. If one has to name any country that is racist free, I would say none exist. So I don't see the point in this discussion.
a few days ago i argued with a chinese friend who hates the japanese first he insulted them, then when i defend them, he insulted me,too but once he said that the chinese vs the japanese there was a war and because of it he doesn't like them much. but it doesn't mean he can insult my precious japanese people

that is so wrong huh? he was not part of the war so why do he hate the japanese.

20centuryboy · Post by **20centuryboy** » Nov 15th, '07, 19:22

Gozen wrote:I'm older than you, 20th century boy, and I'm English. I can state quite happily, without fear of contradiction, that the only people not welcome in England are the English. If you saw a sign, and I don't doubt you, it was almost certainly meant as a joke. No, it isn't funny, unless you are a drunken Brit.

I'm not sure I undersand the "the only people not welcome in England are the English." but I remember a time, early 90's when my mates who lived in london warned me about "don't speak french in the subway, it can get you into troubles" . I guess the paki bashing was also a joke ages ago... anyway, that's not the point, I remember some french kids saying shamefull things to some german students just because of a war they didn't know much about. Every countries and cultures have their bad sides and racism is the most well shared thing in the world.

The only time when it feels really strange is when you're caucasian and you are the object of racism because you're not used to it.

So a sign against caucasian is certainly a sad thing but it's a drop in the sea of what caucasian have shown ( in term of racism to other cultures and people. So no big deal.

KeitaroNagato · Post by **KeitaroNagato** » Nov 16th, '07, 01:05

Maybe we all should just drop the subject about this....
two reasons why:

1. Japan is not the way it was in the past. It is different it was years... thats right years ago.

2. Stupid video from someone that posted here in D-Addicts clearly have issues, not only about Japan but about all of us here.

Just think about logically for a second... WHY THE HELL THIS PERSON POSTED ON THIS SITE? WHY NOT ON YAHOO 360, or WordPress?
This truly an idiotic thing to do, obviously that person wanted to get some attention and add some angry responses, and also some positive criticism. This forum is about friendships around the world (not only about Japan), not to add some stupid negative remarks about ONE INDIVIDUAL that has an issue(s).
As we all are friends here, we should look forward on the greatness of each other, that way regardless of any negative issues, we can over come the past, and shape our bonds. And that way my friends, regardless where you from or are, we can overturn any oppression.

I'll be there for all of you. It doesn't matter if I'm Japanese, Canadian, American, British, or even French. We are all from different places, but in here we are FAMILY and FRIENDS.

This is a great site, for someone to add something like that, I know you know its unappropriated.

vulgarshudder · Post by **vulgarshudder** » Nov 16th, '07, 01:13

Not this video again...

That video was made by Debito Ando or what ever his name is. He is a nut job, who basically does far more damage than he does good by being a loud mouth dick, that is not the way to accomplish anything in Japan, it will just turn people and go 'iyaaa' to all gaijin.

Thos signs are on mainly hostess bars/brothels, usually after drunken russian sailors or GIs have caused trouble in the past.

It is exagerated way out of porportion by Ando.

And I'm not an appologist, far from it, but Ando makes it more difficult for the rest of us sane expats by being a dick.

|ZERO| · Post by **|ZERO|** » Nov 16th, '07, 01:41

It's kind of cool that the Japanese are so free and that they have such strong sense of unity. Signs like that would not be legal in most modern countries.

Nonbirira · Post by **Nonbirira** » Nov 16th, '07, 02:10

It is highly unlikely that the video was made by Debito Arudou. He is strongly committed to securing human rights for ALL and he certainly isn't anti-Japanese. His role is educating the Japanese public that such problems do exist. Yes, he may be a bit shrill at times but every country needs someone that refuses to turn a blind eye to things that others would rather ignore. Of course, I could be wrong but it just doesn't fit with the Debito Arudou that I'm familiar with...

In any case, I agree with some of the other comments. Let's move on. Someone posted an offensive video that greatly misrepresents the true situation in Japan. By making such a fuss over it, I'm sure we've made his/her day...

giggle weed · Post by **giggle weed** » Nov 16th, '07, 03:32

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing this, infact it will unignorize (yes, not a word) some japaneseophiles who like to run up to every cute asian in a sub way and harass them untill the have to run away. I only read the first and last page of this thread so I may be missing a few things.
In the video when it said "japanese only" on various signs, they meant that they didn't want to have to speak with english speaking people who came to their country and didn't bother to learn a lick of their language. For the ones with "foreigners not allowed" well, I can't comment on that except that it's their choice.
The first time I heard that japanese people dislike foreigners I seriously reconsidered any future plans of visiting. I'm sure they favor their own race over others, but seeing a foreigner walking down the street (who did bother to study their culture and language) they really wouldn't mind. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I've actually talked to some japanese people who were happy to hear I was interested in more than just cute boys and anime.

Infact, it's really normal for people to be racist. It's like how two different species of birds won't mate with eachother despite the fact that they're both birds. (They don't mate, I guess, gut you get my point, right?) I am going to honestly say that I sometimes get really sick of all the muslims here who run around spraying graffiti in our garage, throw rocks and scream.. SO EARLY.. in the morning that it's impossible to sleep. I don't mind them being here most of the time, though. (I'm speaking from personal experiences of the kids around my house, so don't take offence. I know that they aren't all like that. ;D)

I'm biased because montreal is one of the most culturally diversed cities in the world and that's where I'm at so I don't notice it whatsoever when a different race walks down the street.

emrams · Post by **emrams** » Nov 16th, '07, 03:59

@ giggle weed: What you just said is hypocritical. Saying you "get really sick of all the muslims here who run around spraying graffiti in our garage, throw rocks and scream.. SO EARLY.. in the morning that it's impossible to sleep" and then saying you don't notice different races because you live in a culturally diverse city is stupid because you just singled out a race and blamed something on them specifically, even if you put a footnote saying "it's kids around my house, i know they aren't all like that", it's the fact that you first blamed the muslim community for this that makes it wrong. Even if the people were muslim, it's not BECAUSE they are muslim that they are doing it. That is just silly to assume or to even mention. Everyone has had experiences with racism, but it is NOT normal to be racist. Saying "oh it's those muslims again they're so loud," is racist no matter what your own world view is. why would you have to single them out? if they are kids why don't you say "the kids around my home are loud early in the morning". Even though it doesn't make it politically correct, it is something slightly better to say (without going into the whole issue of ageism). They aren't doing it because they are muslim.

and @ Nonbirira It is a very high possibility that the video could be from Dibito or someone affiliated with him or his website. If you go to his website or read up on him you will see that he has written a book specifically on this subject called "Japanese Only" and it holds a sign that is actually featured in the video. The subject is the exact same as the video. He does stand up for the civil rights for many diverse groups of peoples, and I am not saying it IS him, but rather there is a possibility that someone got the idea from him, or read the book and felt offended by the subject of "Japanese Only". Who knows.

I guess pointing out for the umpteenth time that the signs featured in this video are for redlight district, yakuza run or associated brothel type clubs and places is pointless because it has been said before by other people and ignored. And if we were to go to Japan tomorrow, how many of these signs do you actually think you will see. Probably none. That is unless you are maybe trying to get into a mob run prostitution house. boo hoo if you didn't. We have no idea where these signs are actually placed, where and what context really. If I were to place a sign in 20 different places and take pictures but it said Japanese only or no Foreigners and make a video and say "look at what I found in Japan" the people who would still believe it was from Japan, may only think it is because they are so quick to judge other cultures and create a bias against them because of an uninformed and uncredited video. It is just as racist to think this way, as to think that the Japanese do not like foreigners and are racist toward them because of this 2 minute video.

doink-chan · Post by **doink-chan** » Nov 16th, '07, 04:24

Yeah, though the pictures were taken from Arudou Debito's page, the video itself was made by an angry doink. Though I may not agree with everything Debito says and might not care for his methods sometimes, at least he does not stoop to the level of this doink's comments. If you look at the profile of the doink, it is full of racism. For instance, this quote:

HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON MY FRIENDS AND FOES. SINCE I HAVE UPLOADED A COUPLE OF JAPANAL BASHING VIDEOS I, TOO, HAVE BEEN BRANDED A RACIST. WELL, THAT'S NOT ENTIRELY VALID SINCE JAPS AND I ARE THE SAME RACE. HOWEVER, I AM NOT A RACIST I AM JUST ANOTHER IGNORANT PERSON IN THE WORLD THAT HATES EVERYONE EQUALLY. NOTE: I DON'T HATE JAPANESE, I ONLY HATE JAPS THAT DON'T LIKE CHINESE. HAHAHA... ISN'T THIS SENTENCE CLEVER? IT CONTRADICTS ITSELF! I AM VERY IGNORANT, INDEED; AGAIN, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!

Again, Debito certainly never uses words like "J*ps" in his writing. Nor does he call the country childish names like "Japanal".

The comments in the comments threads that were made by the doink and his sockpuppets are also racist, making sweeping generalizations about 127 million people. It seems that the doink holds a grudge against Japan for what happened in WWII (despite the fact that he certainly wasn't around during WWII) and acts as though Japan is still the same as it was in WWII.

Either that, or he became angry after trying in vain to go into a fuuzoku business

But either way, this person is definitely a doink, and he didn't upload this video to inform people that there are some racists in Japan, he uploaded this video to try to make people think that ALL Japanese are racists and all Japanese stores have these signs.

It's rather hypocritical, since this doink is definitely racist himself despite his denial...

Yorokobi · Post by **Yorokobi** » Nov 16th, '07, 04:25

I dont have the time to read where this thread is actually going but id just thought id say that today I felt like Japan didnt like me when I was in PE class practicing volleyball and we had to do passes in a group like 40 times in a row without sqrewing it up or something and not once did i get passed the ball. Kinda of felt like it was a game of exclude the foreigner

giggle weed · Post by **giggle weed** » Nov 16th, '07, 04:39

emrams wrote:@ giggle weed: What you just said is hypocritical. Saying you "get really sick of all the muslims here who run around spraying graffiti in our garage, throw rocks and scream.. SO EARLY.. in the morning that it's impossible to sleep" and then saying you don't notice different races because you live in a culturally diverse city is stupid because you just singled out a race and blamed something on them specifically, even if you put a footnote saying "it's kids around my house, i know they aren't all like that", it's the fact that you first blamed the muslim community for this that makes it wrong. Even if the people were muslim, it's not BECAUSE they are muslim that they are doing it. That is just silly to assume or to even mention. Everyone has had experiences with racism, but it is NOT normal to be racist. Saying "oh it's those muslims again they're so loud," is racist no matter what your own world view is. why would you have to single them out? if they are kids why don't you say "the kids around my home are loud early in the morning". Even though it doesn't make it politically correct, it is something slightly better to say (without going into the whole issue of ageism). They aren't doing it because they are muslim.

xD I didn't mean to offend, you took what I said the wrong way. I apologize. Yes, it was wrong of me to say it, but I was just pointing out the fact that there are alot of muslim kids who run around early in the morning and just scream. I also said I wanted to say it honestly, and I'm not going to take it back.
Wait, let me rephrase that.
I was trying to say that even I have had racist thoughs towards other people, and I too get annoyed by other races habits, but despite that I really don't mind other races. Whether you openly say it or not, but I am more than sure you have looked at another race in a way you haven't looked at yours, perhaps even vice versa.
I'm sure everyone in this forum has. You don't have to admit it, you're only human. It's not human to be perfectly in harmony with everyone and everything that moves. I will laugh if you say that you're perfect in this way.

I don't hate muslims at all, infact two of my best friends are muslim, but one of them no longer lives here which is unrelated.
I wasn't being hypocritical. I was using an example. (A bad one at that.) I wasn't using my city as an excuse, either.
I could've also said that there are always these ugly white gangster wannabes who look and act like they're trying to be black because they watch just a little too much MTV. Is that not a racist thought despite it being my race?
I was just trying to make a real life example, and the muslims one came to my mind first.

..I feel the need to explain my reason for posting my city, though. I said "I'm biased because montreal is one of the most culturally diversed cities in the world and that's where I'm at so I don't notice it whatsoever when a different race walks down the street." I meant that in a way that japan may not have many foreigners, so it would be natural for them to look a fragment of a second longer than someone who has people coming from all over the country everyday.
..Again, I've never been to japan or even out of my country, so I could be wrong.

I apologize if I offended.

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