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A Ratio-Based Tracker (Banning Leechers)

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SniperOct
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A Ratio-Based Tracker (Banning Leechers)

Post by SniperOct » Jan 12th, '05, 20:39

hey guys, Recently I've been disappointed with the d-addicts community because there is a serious leecher problem here. In about 90% of all the torrent I have used I have noticed people just getting to 100% and leaving in just 10 seconds after getting there. These people are called LEECHERS for those who do not know. They give a bad upload rate and leave after getting what they wanted. Now that's not called sharing.

I propose that the tracker become a ratio-based tracker like many other trackers out there. Whoever has a truly bad ratio should simply be banned (ip based). This system ensures that people will share at the very least 80% of what they get.

I am tired of being the only seeder. Sometimes I am waiting for a few people to finish so that they can replace me, but then they just leave. I wouldn't even be surprise that thosesame leechers are the ones always requesting seeders.

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Post by ShaolinMunky » Jan 12th, '05, 20:49

You know someone proposed something similar not to long ago and everyone in the community put there 2 cents including Ruroshin who put his thoughts in to it.

Do you know what happened with that person's proposal?

How about this, do we have a ratio based community now? :D

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Post by krys » Jan 12th, '05, 20:52

Yes. I have been dissapointed with d-addicts too. You and me are the only real seeders. All others are filthy leechers. So lets ban them all and do share only among us.
And yes, the noisiest ones are surely the most leecherous of all.

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LittleGreenGrasshopper
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Post by LittleGreenGrasshopper » Jan 12th, '05, 21:03

Sadly, there will always be some bad apples in a barrel. However, the concept of a ratio-based tracker has it's own problems. Take for example, what you described about a peer leaving immediately upon becoming a seed. Who's to say that the person won't come back as a seed later on? I admit that there are a few times when I needed to shut down the PC, but waited the last few minutes for a download to complete before shutting down. Then later on, I ended up seeding at least 5 times the ratio, and responding to seed requests months down the road. Is that to say I'm a leecher then? Anyways, just wanted to say that what you see or assume is not always what it really is.

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Post by mtlandis » Jan 12th, '05, 21:04

krys wrote:And yes, the noisiest ones are surely the most leecherous of all.
LOL i resent this comment. I tend to be noisy when requesting seeds but I have never left anyone hanging. A good example would be Hotelier. Recently I downloaded it but had problems with about 6 of them. I begged and begged and finally got a seeder. She seeded me on 1 or 2 episodes. When I was done, I PMmed her so she could go on to the next 2 episodes. In the meantime, I seeded others. I kept the BT open until there were 0 peers left. And, in one case, went back and reseeded an early episode when new people showed up. My share ratio is always above 1 and is usually 4 or 5. So let's say ... Most of the noisy ones are leeches.

I have experienced what you guys described as well. It tends to piss me off but it is the nature of the beast at the moment. I would have no problem going over to a ratio based tracker. LOL I might be able to download some of the dramas faster if people are forced to stay.

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Post by SniperOct » Jan 12th, '05, 21:14

krys wrote:Yes. I have been dissapointed with d-addicts too. You and me are the only real seeders. All others are filthy leechers. So lets ban them all and do share only among us.
And yes, the noisiest ones are surely the most leecherous of all.
You are being very ignorant about the real issue. When I say I am the only seeder I refer to that particular torrent. The ratio system is meant to hhelp the community, not to destroy it. In fact, sites with ratio based trackers are (or were since the crackdown) very popular. You also fail to understand that current leechers would not be banned by using the current tracker statistics since everyone's stats would start from the beginning and they would only be banned if they don't fix their act. If they get banned they would have no one to blame but themselves.

As to the issue of this proposal not being popuular it is easy to understand why. I mean, we do have a leecher problem so I do not expect most users to look at this and think that it is a good idea. The reality is that the seeder/leecher ratio here is very bad. I bet that if the admins publish it it would be something like .1

Compare that with a ratio based tracker like http://www.puretna.com. Their seeder/leecher ratio is ".64" .1 is not even close.

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Post by pepelepiu » Jan 12th, '05, 21:30

I think the bt protocol already takes into account the "bad" leechers. By bad we usually mean "slow uploaders".. You will automatically "choke" these people (unless you yourself are a leecher, then you will have tot rade with them).
As long your upload is good you will barter packets with people wih good upload as well.. If you mean the "unpopular" torrents, eg., the very old ones, then it is logical that they a re poorly seeded and likely to be worse if the site was closed..

anyway I'm not so sure if the # of people who successfully download a file will increase if you close the site..

(just arguing that side for some reason- on other days I argue that closing the site is good so go figure)

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Post by iceberri » Jan 12th, '05, 21:40

This idea has been discussed about a billion times and it has been shot down every time. Ruroshin doesn't like having a closed community which a ratio-based tracker would entail. So unless he changes his mind, this topic is going to go nowhere. :roll

Perhaps you've had a few bad experiences, but on the whole, d-addicts is pretty good about sharing considering nothing is enforced. Take, for a random example, Winter Sonata, which has been on the tracker for ages, where most of the torrents are still very much alive. If everyone seeded a ratio of "0.1" is there any hope that any of those torrents would still be alive today? For the most part, if there was a large distribution initially, there are usually at least some seeds that stick around months later.

Also, if you take krys's sarcasm seriously, you are being played. :P

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Post by duckie » Jan 12th, '05, 21:41

For ppl who uses dsl, it's unfair ban the whole isp. I upload my fair share of dramas.

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Post by SniperOct » Jan 12th, '05, 21:44

pepelepiu wrote:I think the bt protocol already takes into account the "bad" leechers. By bad we usually mean "slow uploaders".. You will automatically "choke" these people (unless you yourself are a leecher, then you will have tot rade with them).
As long your upload is good you will barter packets with people wih good upload as well..
Yes, you are right about that aspect of the bittorrent protocol. However, I belive that you didn't understand what I meant due to the elusive meaning of the word "leecher"

Leecher is a term that is somewhat improperly used. Anyone who has not completed downloading a torrent that they are connected to is termed a 'leech' by the basic terminology of bittorrent. Once your download has completed, and you are now sharing the full file, you are a seeder. A "statistical leech" is someone who has a poor share ratio because they have not shared files after their downloads are complete. They've sucked from others and returned nothing. "Stealing" is a more accurate description of this type.

So you see, a person who is currently downloading a file is a leecher according to the bittorrent definition of a leecher. But a person who gets the whole file and then leaves is a leecher in the popular definition of it. That is, that person stole the file because he didn't give it back to others after getting it. His ratio is below 1:1 It was probably .05

Now that's the leecher problem I am talking about.

As for the old torrent issues, it has already been proven in ratio based trackers that they do get seeded better. why? because there is only so much u can upload in popular torrents. Since everyone wants to improve or maintain their good ratio they choose to seed the popular torrents. The problem ( agood problem to have for the site) is that there are too many seeders on a popular torrent and they are forced to seed old torrents instead. This is actually more true in this site because new content doesn't come everyday and by the 20s here. In oher sites there is a new torrent every minute.

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Post by mizune » Jan 12th, '05, 21:52

iceberri wrote:This idea has been discussed about a billion times and it has been shot down every time. Ruroshin doesn't like having a closed community which a ratio-based tracker would entail. So unless he changes his mind, this topic is going to go nowhere.
You know, this question and a couple others tend to pop up every so often...
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to put up a sticky someplace that kind of outlines and explains d-addicts policies/philosophy on stuff like the ul/dl ratio, sharing movies (although there is a topic for this one already), batch torrents...
....or at the very least, add them in the FAQ, since they are frequently asked... ^_^;;;

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Post by SniperOct » Jan 12th, '05, 21:56

iceberri wrote: Perhaps you've had a few bad experiences, but on the whole, d-addicts is pretty good about sharing considering nothing is enforced. Take, for a random example, Winter Sonata, which has been on the tracker for ages, where most of the torrents are still very much alive. If everyone seeded a ratio of "0.1" is there any hope that any of those torrents would still be alive today? For the most part, if there was a large distribution initially, there are usually at least some seeds that stick around months later.
Well, you just pointed out what I pointed out. I never said that there never were any seeders. Well, many times there aren't or else there wouldn't be a request every minute. The issue is the quality of the seeder/leecher numbers. I am one of those that keep torrents alive by seeding those requests every now and then. The issue is that people HIT AND RUN all the time. There are a number of people who always seed and then there is a number of people who never seed. they just steal. If they just stay on after they get something for an extra 30 mins or until they have giving 100% back then this community would be very fast. The seeder/leecher number here is like 1:30. One seeder for every 30 users. And not only that, but the seeders are always the same people keeping torrents alive. Now how is that fair? It takes days to get one episode sometimes while u are seeding and seeding all the time.

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Post by LittleGreenGrasshopper » Jan 12th, '05, 22:10

SniperOct wrote: Well, you just pointed out what I pointed out. I never said that there never were any seeders. Well, many times there aren't or else there wouldn't be a request every minute. ...If they just stay on after they get something for an extra 30 mins or until they have giving 100% back then this community would be very fast.
You neglected to point out that some of the reseed requests are for older torrents, in which most of those who wish to download already has, and that it's a whole new group of individuals who has just started that is requesting the reseed. Sometimes, there's a span of months between the latest reseed post and the one before it. As for the community being fast, if that was one of your intentions, you should re-read what Ruroshin has to say about it. The point of D-Addicts is not about how fast one can get the dramas, but rather how many people will be able to enjoy the dramas.

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Post by Carn » Jan 12th, '05, 22:19

The point of D-Addicts is not about how fast one can get the dramas, but rather how many people will be able to enjoy the dramas.
Well said, LittleGreenGrasshopper. *wipes away a tear*

Seriously, though, SniperOct..there'll always be people who either live in countries with slower connections or who just aren't in a situation where they can seed long enough to get their share ratio to 1.0. Although I'm frustrated about download-and-run leechers too, and having a closed community would prevent many of the people who want to seed but just can't upload fast enough from enjoying the dramas too.
SniperOct wrote:hey guys, Recently I've been disappointed with the d-addicts community because there is a serious leecher problem here. In about 90% of all the torrent I have used I have noticed people just getting to 100% and leaving in just 10 seconds after getting there. These people are called LEECHERS for those who do not know.
You know, I was really frustrated about that too..but I also figured out that here at school, I often upload much, much faster than I download..so I'll have a ratio of 2+ when I finish. Sometimes people are left hanging for days where they upload MBs and MBs to new leechers and then finish.

Also, I think if you look at the Seeding and Upload Requests forum you'd be surprised how many people are willing to help people out and seed dramas that they love because they want other people to enjoy them too. =) Sure, there are leechers and lurkers, but there're also the dedicated drama-drugg..er, addicts, and it seem like that's been working pretty well so far. =)

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Post by Ruroshin » Jan 12th, '05, 22:56

Indeed I should probably make sticky somewhere, we had some good debates on this in the past.

D-Addicts's mission statement is to share the joy of dramas to as many people as possible.

D-Addict has 3,023 torrents and total completed downloads to date is 1,021,961 and thats not including the few months of archiving that I did. Thats a lot of drama downloading. If we truely had as bad a leeching problem as you suggest then we would never reach that amount of completed downloads.

I think we're doing ok :-)

Thanks to all people who help seed :salut:

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Post by Kai Lien » Jan 12th, '05, 23:19

I don't think we should have a ratio based tracker but we maybe we could trick people in thinking that it it. :lol: There's gotta be some good solution for people to help seed. I know not everyone keeps their machine on 24/7, have to leave on emergency situations, or have low speeds. I understand that but there is still a lot of people who leech and don't want to share dramas. I know this community does pretty well in terms of keeping torrents alive for quite some time but I have wanted to download Xi Jie Shao Nian from here and I am always unsuccessful. I get the torrents while they're hot (supposedly :glare:) but the peers don't seem to be uling to me. Well, only like 1-3 kbps and that would take like months to finish. Then, I seem to have connecting issues. I also think the seed/ul request forum helps but people hardly go looking in there to find something to seed. Well at least not for anything I want. :cry: Usually its you help me and I'll help you sorta thing. Another thing is, I uploaded happy together 4 only two days ago, 18 people have finished, there was only one seeder beside me most of yesterday and I am the only seeder there right now! I don't mind seeding because I want people to have the stuff but come on! If everyone could just help out a little more it would be for the greater good. It's those raw chinese torrents that I have a hard time getting...please seed and don't make my assumptions true.

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Post by JadedAngel » Jan 12th, '05, 23:36

LittleGreenGrasshopper wrote:Sadly, there will always be some bad apples in a barrel. However, the concept of a ratio-based tracker has it's own problems. Take for example, what you described about a peer leaving immediately upon becoming a seed. Who's to say that the person won't come back as a seed later on? I admit that there are a few times when I needed to shut down the PC, but waited the last few minutes for a download to complete before shutting down. Then later on, I ended up seeding at least 5 times the ratio, and responding to seed requests months down the road. Is that to say I'm a leecher then? Anyways, just wanted to say that what you see or assume is not always what it really is.
I agree! There are times that I have done the same, especially on very large files that took days to download and began to wear my system down. I usually come back to seed, and are always checking for those who make requests.

Having a ratio based tracker is difficult. I know that on some other sites with it i have downloaded files that were pretty old. Because of this there weren't many people needing seeders and I've been left with very bad ratios at times.

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Post by mtlandis » Jan 12th, '05, 23:43

As I said before.... leeching is the nature of the beast. While it does tend to piss me off, I get over it pretty quick and move on with life.

I guess the most important thing is that I get to see dramas I never would have had a chance to see and when I seed, I can help share the joy. LOL now that I think about it, I feel sorry for those who will never know the joy you get from sharing something you love.

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Post by jesse » Jan 13th, '05, 00:45

Everyone has good a good point here. I think that a lot of people who don't give as much as they take probably don't understand the system very well; they're used to downloading a file and being done with it, and the logic of a 1 to 1 share ratio is foreign to them. Once they run into a situation where they can't actually get 100% of a download, they'll probably start to understand the system. I'm sure that anyone who visits this site on a regular basis is not a leecher for that reason.

That said, friendly reminders about keeping a file active after you've downloaded it probably wouldn't hurt; that's what suprnova did, and I think it probably worked in a lot of cases.

But the important thing is to keep the options open for as many people as possible. I don't mind seeding a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio since I can, especially if that means someone else will get to see something that I really like.

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Re: Ratio-based tracker (ban leechers)

Post by BT-Slut » Jan 13th, '05, 01:14

SniperOct wrote:hey guys, Recently I've been disappointed with the d-addicts community because there is a serious leecher problem here. In about 90% of all the torrent I have used I have noticed people just getting to 100% and leaving in just 10 seconds after getting there. These people are called LEECHERS for those who do not know. They give a bad upload rate and leave after getting what they wanted. Now that's not called sharing.

I propose that the tracker become a ratio-based tracker like many other trackers out there. Whoever has a truly bad ratio should simply be banned (ip based). This system ensures that people will share at the very least 80% of what they get.

I am tired of being the only seeder. Sometimes I am waiting for a few people to finish so that they can replace me, but then they just leave. I wouldn't even be surprise that thosesame leechers are the ones always requesting seeders.
Hmm.. Interesting... This SniperOct guy opened his account here on 5/30/04 and has posted a grand total of 12 posts as of now--and 4 of the posts (25%) are just on this thread. Non participants like this guy are LEECHs and should be banned. He'd certainly have participated much more in the forums if he was truly interested in helping out the d-addicts community.

Therefore, I purpose that a new posting system be implemented. Everyone will be required to post at least 25 posts per month. If not, their accounts should be terminated and their IPs banned permanently. Leechers who simply download and never post--users like SniperOct--should not have access to d-addicts. They simply leech. Let's get rid of all leechers.

(I can't wait to see how he defends his lack of participation in the forums. I just love these turds who show up and post to the forums whenever they want and demand something; otherwise they never bother to post one msg. It certainly does show their true colors.)

I hate leeches as much as the next guy, but I also equally despise leechs who never participate in the forums and only show up to whine and complain about things.

Be gone with thee leech!

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Post by iceberri » Jan 13th, '05, 02:00

A bit harsh there BT :wink: 25 posts a month or permaban? I think that'd spurn a lot of happy-go-lucky spammers. Active forums are good, but spammed forums are annoying. >______<

If we implement either of these systems, it'd be going against the idea of simply sharing asian dramas for everyone. I kinda like how it d-addicts is now -- if I worried about post count or something, I don't think it'd be quite the same. I say what I have to say, when I want to say it. Not that I er, have to worry about posting 25 times a month.... <sheepish grin>

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Post by techie » Jan 13th, '05, 02:08

I'm wif ya there iceberri.
Who dares go on vacation without a laptop and a dialup account then.
(Not that I've had one for the past ten years some)

I think in regards to the ban on leechers, there also has to be an overall ratio in that case.

Banning IP's is a bit harsh too.
70% of users in regular areas without ADSL/SDSL and Cable are on dynamic IP's still and this means banning every dial up segment there is in the range.

You might as well do a subnet ban on 255.255.255.0

There can in fact be, like in a recent case for myself, seeding 14 epsiodes for others, including 12 for the SOTW while downloading 1 episode that of course suffers, but since there are 50-100 seeders on that thing already and I'm alone seeding other files, why would I be banned because I have to drop one episode???

My overall UL/DL is about 3.5:1 as far I can tell with the machines I have.
(Note the plural statement.)

On many episodes they are infinit and others they are 16 - 50 : 1
I doub;t anyone would hang me for stepping off on well seeded shows at 80-90% where there are many more and faster seeders than me.

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Post by ap » Jan 13th, '05, 02:14

damm BT, that means i'll get banned. i don't even come close. :lol

seriously, all the will do is add a lot of "me too" type of posts which are basicly pointless
like this one :D

ap

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 13th, '05, 02:21

iceberri wrote:A bit harsh there BT :wink: 25 posts a month or permaban? I think that'd spurn a lot of happy-go-lucky spammers. Active forums are good, but spammed forums are annoying. >______<

If we implement either of these systems, it'd be going against the idea of simply sharing asian dramas for everyone. I kinda like how it d-addicts is now -- if I worried about post count or something, I don't think it'd be quite the same. I say what I have to say, when I want to say it. Not that I er, have to worry about posting 25 times a month.... <sheepish grin>
LOL. iceberri, you're normally more in tune with my sarcastic humor. :O I guess I should have left the requirement at 100--as I originally wrote--so that people would understand the facetious nature of my post. I was being as draconian as sniperoct with my proposed system.

I woudn't want my proposed system implented, lest we have tons of jholics and techies spamming all over the forum. :D :P :roll

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Post by iceberri » Jan 13th, '05, 02:40

BT-Slut wrote:LOL. iceberri, you're normally more in tune with my sarcastic humor. :O I guess I should have left the requirement at 100--as I originally wrote--so that people would understand the facetious nature of my post. I was being as draconian as sniperoct with my proposed system.
Forgive me BT.. lack of sleep has caused the degradation and deterioration of any logical or sarcastic thought lately. :-(

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Post by dmorgan » Jan 13th, '05, 03:06

I think that the number of leeching leechers is much more apparent on other bittorrent sites that I have visited. I would say that the amount of files that can be grabbed easily here at d-addicts is quite high. There are very few files that go unseeded for long. I have shared my files to at least 100% of what I downloaded. There are a lot of folks willing to give back seed when needed here. :D a smiley in a seed request post gets you farther than an :cussing: angry post about leechers.

If you want to help the community and share yourself, you might want to try and make alliances and trade seeds. Heck you can even volunteer to seed a series of the week or month!!

I haven't had to do this much, but I have asked for a seed and offered to have that person PM me and ask for something in return. It works!

If you are stuck at 99% with a jdrama, PM me!! I'll help! I am likely to have what you need!!

Here is a rule of thumb that I saw on a torrent website "Just basic torrent rules we can all abide by, seed at a high speed so that all can get the file quickly without any hassels, seed file after the download has finished while there are people left, there is usually a belief that 100% upload is sufficient, this is fine as a MINUMIM, but its much nicer to all that are leeching and also at anyone that is seeding to seed for longer, much longer, as long as u can basically, this will enable everyones torrenting experience to by much more fruitful. Also so try to limit the amount of torrents you open, if you can keep up a decent ratio, pause or end the torrent until you can."

I see that many folks are more willing to seed beyond 100% with a smaller file. Otherwise these smaller files would not have more seeds than leechers.

Seed to 125% or longer if you can!!

I put up a poll recently about upload speed. It is quite apparent that many folks are with higher upload bandwidth than they were a year ago and have more bandwidth to share,seed and reseed with.

This can only get better as time goes on and as we get more users we will get more good users with Mbps+ upload speeds.

We don't need a ratio tracker system. We have better things to do, like watching our drama shows!! :tv:

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Post by Carn » Jan 13th, '05, 03:18

techie: Like us people on school connections! =_=; I once checked out boxtorrents and apparently some jerks here at UCLA had tried to cheat and got the entire UCLA range of IPs banned. >_< But we drama addicts are better, I hope =)

BT-slut: I know....>< One jholic is enough. :crazy: Hahahahha. That would be so awesome.

dmorgan: The trading seeding is a good idea. I remember someone had a list of what they could seed in their signature. That was pretty awesome. ^_~

Also, "We don't need a ratio tracker system. We have better things to do, like watching our drama shows!! " is so true. Substitute "to study/to eat/to sleep" for "a ratio tracker system" and you've got it right on. =D

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Post by Ruroshin » Jan 13th, '05, 03:22

and don't forget the 20/80 theory. 20% of the users upload 80% of the data. This will probably remain true for a long time simply for the fact that some have extremely high upload speed while others are pretty low. It doesn't help that ADSL is the most popular broadband and the A in ADSL usually means you download way more than you upload. But thankfully we have those 20% users with fat pipes :D

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 13th, '05, 03:29

Ruroshin wrote:and don't forget the 20/80 theory. 20% of the users upload 80% of the data. This will probably remain true for a long time simply for the fact that some have extremely high upload speed while others are pretty low. It doesn't help that ADSL is the most popular broadband and the A in ADSL usually means you download way more than you upload. But thankfully we have those 20% users with fat pipes :D
Speaking of... I notice Groink posting a few posts here lately. Has he returned? He had massive pipes at work from which he used to upload quite a bit. Come on Groink, I know you're out there lurking. Start seeding Under the Same Roof!!!

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Post by RiRi_Desu » Jan 13th, '05, 04:44

Well there will always be people who are too lazy to share with other, and yeah it's really annoying, but othervise I think this BT-site is just wonderful, everybody are really nice. When I ask for a seeder, usually someone will seed just within a few hours after I've asked, so I think the people at this site are just great. :wub:
So I really don't think this should be a closed site, but instead try make people understand that they must seed, not just download and leave! Maybe write a message at the torrent-pages, everyone can see, telling people to upload atleast 1:1 and explain that it is for their own sake so that all the nice seedes don't get feed up and stops seeding because that is not good for anyone! So that maybe people that only download and leave would feel guitly when they see that and start uploading just a little bit, just sooomething to remind them not to be so selfish. :P

I just discovered this site less than a month ago, but it's already my favourite one!
And yeaaah I have asked for seeders a few times already but I proooomise I upload atleast 1:1! ^_~ If I am uploading really slow like 1-5 I finished after 1:1 (or sometimes before if it just won't upload anything there's no point in sitting there uploading nothing), and if it is fast I leave it on until I have to restart my computer.... 'cause you know not everybody has really good computers, my computer tends to freeze or other annoying things after it's been on for too long. :glare:
Well anyway, this is a really cool site, :cheers: keep up the good work :notworthy: and hope there is a way to get people to seed more! :roll

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Post by techie » Jan 13th, '05, 04:51

BT-Slut wrote: I woudn't want my proposed system implented, lest we have tons of jholics and techies spamming all over the forum. :D :P :roll
hey now.. :unsure: I dont spamm all over...
Only where you find cute gals... and good dorama.. and... :crazy: and I'll be quiet now :lol

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Post by o0Tsukushi0o » Jan 13th, '05, 05:20

I don't think the leeching problem at D-addicts is as bad as some people think. This community is generally very generous in terms of helping others. My seed requests are almost always fulfilled. :-)

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Post by neonkinpatsu » Jan 13th, '05, 05:40

I'm indifferent on this matter. I do my share so I don't have anything to worry about :lol People who leech and run are annoying when seeds are low :x But ya know, some people leave when there are a lot of seeds and come back later when there are less, just to help out. I do that here occasionally. I'll pause it if there are more seeds than leechers, especially if I have torrents open that are downloading. But I always come back until that torrent hits 100% or more :P However I tend to do this WAY more often at places that have the ratio system, like FS Seeders. That's because it's way easier to beef up your ratio when torrents are older and not frequently seeded anymore 8)

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Post by jholic » Jan 13th, '05, 09:50

BT-Slut wrote:I woudn't want my proposed system implented, lest we have tons of jholics and techies spamming all over the forum. :D :P :roll
what the..... i leave this forum for, what? a few hours, and my name's getting dragged through the mud?

(said in the voice of gollum from LOTR): sh-pamming!? SH-PAMMINGGG?!?!

actually, i'm just honored that my name was whispered in the same sentence as techie's. :w00t:


well, back to the topic: i can only hope that people learn that it's just as good to share than to just leech. i don't have a great upload speed, but i'm not sure how many people can say that they leave their computers on, just UPloading/seeding and not downloading anything....

i skimmed through many of the comments, so please forgive me if these points were already mentioned:

- with a ratio site, you may not get as great a variety of torrents as you do now. it tends to shut people out. as an open site, you tend to get more variety of releases.

- ironically, ratio sites can be a little troublesome.

at fss, sometimes, i would like to dl a torrent, but there are no other leechers. if i start dl'ing, the site (used to) ban me after a few hours for a bad share ratio. (who else can i upload to?). i would have to post in the forum and hope that someone would join me in dl'ing.

why don't you share another torrent, or share A LOT more, you ask? well, it's not that easy. unless you were the first one or two guys to finish that torrent, often, you're left competing with 20 other guys to seed that one guy (kindness overkill). think about it, the leecher might have a 100kB max dl. divide by 20, and you're uploading only about 5k to that guy even if you increase your ul speed to 1000k.

oh, and when that leecher finishes, how's s/he going to reach his/her 1.00 ratio? :pale:


well, that being said, i just understand that fss is what it is and i enjoy it. d-addicts is what it is, and i enjoy it here too! :D

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Post by nene » Jan 13th, '05, 09:55

ShaolinMunky wrote:You know someone proposed something similar not to long ago and everyone in the community put there 2 cents including Ruroshin who put his thoughts in to it.

Do you know what happened with that person's proposal?

How about this, do we have a ratio based community now? :D
who's that on your avatar? :shocked:

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Post by jholic » Jan 13th, '05, 10:52

nene wrote:who's that on your avatar? :shocked:
nene, you can't tell me you missed this thread:

http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11105

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Post by Leng » Jan 13th, '05, 16:57

My uploaded are always few times of my downloaded. If I leave after I completed the episode, am I considered a leech?

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Post by beer » Jan 13th, '05, 20:54

But of course.

And BTW: when you upload a lot while the downloader is asleep (and cannot therefore monitor your uploads) and leave the torrent before he wakes up, then you're a leech too.

And when you suck someone's blood, then you're a leech as well. But not when you have fangs. If you have fangs and leech blood, then you're a vampire. But if you're either and there are no witnesses, then you're a lawyer on top of it and that makes it many times worse. And even more so, if you're a copyright lawyer, come to think of it, because then you'll be leeching both the target organisms and other leeches. Damn, this is so profound...

/nick beer|beer

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Post by iceberri » Jan 13th, '05, 21:00

beer wrote:But of course.

And BTW: when you upload a lot while the downloader is asleep (and cannot therefore monitor your uploads) and leave the torrent before he wakes up, then you're a leech too.

And when you suck someone's blood, then you're a leech as well. But not when you have fangs. If you have fangs and leech blood, then you're a vampire. But if you're either and there are no witnesses, then you're a lawyer on top of it and that makes it many times worse. And even more so, if you're a copyright lawyer, come to think of it, because then you'll be leeching both the target organisms and other leeches. Damn, this is so profound...

/nick beer|beer
:alcoholic: :rofl:
So profound indeed. :mrgreen:

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Post by jholic » Jan 13th, '05, 23:04

Leng wrote:My uploaded are always few times of my downloaded. If I leave after I completed the episode, am I considered a leech?
Leng: don't worry, beer and ice are just kidding around. you're not a leech.

i was going to say something about this, but i thought my spam was long enough. :mrgreen:

one cannot assume that when someone drops off a torrent (right after they've completed) that someone is a leech. it seems one of the trends in seeding is to seed a torrent until there are about .95 distributed copies, then drop off and let everyone catch up. (the seeder comes back after a few hours and complete many people at once.)

this means, however, that those of us that may have started on the torrent early will have uploaded A LOT (2.00+ ratio) by the time we complete. i try not to drop off if there are only a few seeds/distcopies on the torrent, but at that point, i probably have a 3.00+ share ratio. i would not blame others for dropping off.

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Post by BT-Slut » Jan 13th, '05, 23:31

jholic wrote:it seems one of the trends in seeding is to seed a torrent until there are about .95 distributed copies, then drop off and let everyone catch up. (the seeder comes back after a few hours and complete many people at once.)

this means, however, that those of us that may have started on the torrent early will have uploaded A LOT (2.00+ ratio) by the time we complete. i try not to drop off if there are only a few seeds/distcopies on the torrent, but at that point, i probably have a 3.00+ share ratio. i would not blame others for dropping off.
This is actually a great idea. I've done that before but I had not realized it's becoming a "trend" to do that.

It's actually a nice deterrent for those hoggers who must download every torrent that's released the moment it's released. No one forces a user to be first in line to download. If they want to be first in line, then let them take the added burden of seeding more than a 1:1 ratio. This is actually a great idea and makes sure those leechs who immediately leave after they obtain 100% of the file can't do so.

I'd suggest more people do this when initially seeding.

Of course this only works when there is only one seeder. As soon as there are two or more seeders, this idea won't work.

But good of you to bring up this idea to the public jholic.

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Post by mizune » Jan 14th, '05, 04:36

BT-Slut wrote: This is actually a great idea. I've done that before but I had not realized it's becoming a "trend" to do that.
I think it's a great idea too...as long as you don't publish what you're doing... ^_^;;;;
If it really becomes common practice, and the leechers know this is being done, then the problem I see is that the "true" leechers will just wait later to join the pool and take advantage of the higher d/l speeds when there are a large number of ppl just kind of stuck at 90%+. In this case, I think they'd actually be seeding less than if they were queued up normally....

Plus if people are forced to seed greater than 1:1 ratio and then completing the file all at once, there might be a chance that the torrent might loose seeders faster over a period of time compared to traditional seeding b/c a large number of people will just close after completion (since they've seeded their "fair share" already)....

But whatever strategy you choose, I don't think it's wise to tell people publically...At the very least, the leechers should have to do a *little* work to figure out their leeching strategy....
:lol

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Post by shirahime » Jan 14th, '05, 09:38

When I first saw this thread there was no reply so I guessed everybody was thinking the same thing as me "we've been through this already" and just ignore it like I did.
Why are there so many replies now? Because there are a lot of new members who haven't red the old thread about this ratio-tracker discusion.

I was thinking the same back then that we should have this kind of tracker but after doing some re-thinking I changed my mind. Partly because I'm a member of FSS and there they use this kind of tracker and closed membership. The speed is great but sometimes I come too late and the movie I want already have 30 seeds and 2 leecher. So if I don't go there often my ratio will drop and eventually I can't see the dl-link. So sometimes when I see a new release of a movie I'm not interested in I dl anyway bcoz there's 1 seed and a lot of leecher so I can increase my ratio. When I've gain enough ratio I stopped the torrent and delete the movie.

I think a open forum provide us with a lot of new members and everybody here is so nice and sharing so the new members will catch up with this kind of philosofy too. Not everybody is a true seeder in the begining. I leeched a lot when I started with BT but it's bcoz I didnt have much to share in the begining. The more I got the more I have to share and can contribute.
So instead of complaining and suggesting that d-addicts should have restrictions why don't you just share more when you have the capacity?
Lastly an ratio quota is unfair to those who has limited upload quota at their ISP or have slow upload connection. Luckily I don't belong to neither of those 2 catergories :D

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Post by techie » Jan 14th, '05, 10:12

jholic wrote:actually, i'm just honored that my name was whispered in the same sentence as techie's. :w00t:
OMG... and I thought I had some missplaced priorities in life LOLOLOL... :P
(j/k jholic is all good)


I have had this discussion about leech and seed tracking and the quota over all
with someone working on a system like that.

Perhaps the system would work if and only if the complete UL/DL per user in the forum was stored in a database file as a ratio index for all activities against said tracker.

In other words, no logging of individual activities but instead a quota base only next to the nickname like post counts. This would indicate who is doing an overall good effort for the community.

However, it would also mean you scare away a lot of newbies who may not be good seeders to begin with. Just a thought.

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Post by lolipss » Jan 14th, '05, 10:24

if u guys implemented those ratio based tracker system what happen to those people who got crappy upload? they can't download at all? :-(

not every country has super upload dsl or cable connection :glare:

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Post by ar-a-mach » Jan 14th, '05, 10:40

i agree with you lolipss :-)

upl ration track is the most stupid thing i've always heard about.

all ppl don't have the ability to share. And for ppl like me who gets everything (and i mean every single torrent aviable in the whole community) i can't possibly upl at ratio 1:1 every single file i get :roll not even with a 1Go symetric upl line Because in one day if there are 50 new torrents the comp can't upl 50 torrents at once till they all get to 1:1 duu...

plus i have the upload addict status cause i try to help but still, i guess i must have one of the worst share ratio of us all. :lol

and finaly if you "supra uploader" think you're the 2 or 3 "jesus" around well..... then keep going (you sure are good to the community), but the speed you get or the ppl leaving should not affect you as you are the good (or should i say lucky) ones who can do it. :wub:

but not everyone can
:glare: ::remember my 512kbp time:::

bah no offence but i think it's stupid to think it will change anything :roll

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Post by busyizzy » Jan 14th, '05, 10:54

I skimmed through the 4 pages, and I don't think anyone mentioned limited bandwidth. On my school connection, I have a limited amount of bandwidth I can upload/download per day. One episode in itself is almost one gigabyte. If I go over the limit, they send me a warning, and next time, they cut off my internet connection. I have already gotten a warning because I accidentally uploaded 3+ gigs in one day. ^^; And only downloaded one gig, so that's 4+ gigs for a day: way over the total alloted amount we're supposed to use.

I try to upload 300 mb for a 700 mb episode I downloaded, and come back the next day or so and upload 500-700 mb until the file is deleted from my harddrive (I delete immediately after watching). But I do think it's unfair to ask for a 1:1 ratio. I understand the problem, but please do take into consideration people who can't really comply with that, even if they want to.

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Post by okumasama » Jan 14th, '05, 11:45

Damn, where is the Hikari 100Mpbs both Up & Down service in the rest of the world? That would solve the problem for sure :D But I guess this is just how life is: If you want cheap bread go and buy it next to a field, if you want cheap meat go and buy it next to the farm, well if u want cheap (& fast) internet go and buy it in Japan.
I wonder what's left for me in Europe :scratch: Even fashion moves to China :lol
Anyway I don't support the idea of a ratio-based tracker. BitTorrent itself is effecient enought to share the files. Just remember (the ones that have the experience) the sharing in the IRC network...

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Post by ar-a-mach » Jan 14th, '05, 11:51

lmao SOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE ! ! ! hahaha :lol

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Post by jholic » Jan 14th, '05, 23:40

ar-a-mach wrote:And for ppl like me who gets everything (and i mean every single torrent aviable in the whole community) i can't possibly upl at ratio 1:1 every single file i get
every single torrent???!?! :blink

the better question to ask yourself is if you're able to WATCH every single torrent. i mean, after i realized that the human life span is only about 100 years, and i've got about eight lifetimes' worth of drama/movies to watch, i found that it was also nice to use the UPLOAD side of my bandwidth connection. (spread the joy, right?)

people just need to realize that folks have sacrificed time to share this with them, and all they're asking is that you sacrifice a little to share with others as well....

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Post by beer » Jan 15th, '05, 00:02

You've gotta stop watching stuff in slow motion. :P

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Post by eltinator » Jan 15th, '05, 00:56

jholic wrote: the better question to ask yourself is if you're able to WATCH every single torrent. i mean, after i realized that the human life span is only about 100 years, and i've got about eight lifetimes' worth of drama/movies to watch, i found that it was also nice to use the UPLOAD side of my bandwidth connection. (spread the joy, right?)
.
AHAHAHHAHAAH, I wonder if it's mathematically possible to watch every single thing uploaded here in a given lifespan. Well to make things simpler, calculate how much hours of asian entertainment we get uploaded in a year and see if there are even that many hours in a year :lol

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Post by jholic » Jan 17th, '05, 07:46

eltinator wrote:Well to make things simpler, calculate how much hours of asian entertainment we get uploaded in a year and see if there are even that many hours in a year
ha! and let's factor in 3hrs/day for sleep, and four 15min breaks for eating and using the bathroom. i still don't think it could be done. :pale:

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Post by bitslicker » Feb 1st, '05, 20:22

i use a ratio based site and it works out extremely well. of course seeding is not mandatory but many more people seed and files do not die a quick death. a publicly known ratio of all users is welcomed on my part.

those who leech everything off this site and complain that they cant upload as much as they download are totally wrong. its all because there are no seeders that you have to grab as much as you can, as fast as you can. if you exercised some self-control and seeded as much as you uploaded, there would be no need for anyone to have to grab a file while its still "hot" for fear that there wont be any seeders the next day.

this site is great but theres just too many damn leechers and all the torrents are dead.

if anyone is interested the ratio site is a porn site, http://www.puretna.com . its just worth seeing how their ratio system works.

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Post by Carn » Feb 1st, '05, 20:40

*blinks* All the torrents are dead?

http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/torrents ... ding&sort=

37 pages of seeded torrents (not to mention the temporarily unseeded torrents) doesn't seem like a situation where "all the torrents are dead". :-)

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Post by thetenken » Feb 1st, '05, 21:33

BT-Slut wrote:
jholic wrote:it seems one of the trends in seeding is to seed a torrent until there are about .95 distributed copies, then drop off and let everyone catch up. (the seeder comes back after a few hours and complete many people at once.)

this means, however, that those of us that may have started on the torrent early will have uploaded A LOT (2.00+ ratio) by the time we complete. i try not to drop off if there are only a few seeds/distcopies on the torrent, but at that point, i probably have a 3.00+ share ratio. i would not blame others for dropping off.
This is actually a great idea. I've done that before but I had not realized it's becoming a "trend" to do that.

It's actually a nice deterrent for those hoggers who must download every torrent that's released the moment it's released. No one forces a user to be first in line to download. If they want to be first in line, then let them take the added burden of seeding more than a 1:1 ratio. This is actually a great idea and makes sure those leechs who immediately leave after they obtain 100% of the file can't do so.

I'd suggest more people do this when initially seeding.

Of course this only works when there is only one seeder. As soon as there are two or more seeders, this idea won't work.

But good of you to bring up this idea to the public jholic.
God I hate it when people do that. It's not that I'm a leecher, it's just that I'm impatient...

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Post by BT-Slut » Feb 1st, '05, 21:49

thetenken wrote:
God I hate it when people do that. It's not that I'm a leecher, it's just that I'm impatient...
I believe you 100% tenken when you say you're not a leecher. In fact you often go out of your way to seed for SoTW. So the case is quite clear you're not a leech.

But I had the biggest laugh when I read "impatient". In this world of fansubbed dramas where we are asked to wait months--sometimes years--for a drama series to be finally subbed in its entirety, you speak of impatience for a seeding that takes an extra few hours? LOL! Surely you jest. LOL.... Isn't it all about patience in our little world?

BTW, when will the next ep of Orange Day be released? LOL... (Actually it'll be released Feb 4th, so mark your calenders folks. But you get my jest.)

I can't stop laughing. LOL...

Impatience indeed! LOL...

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Post by pariah_dog » Feb 1st, '05, 22:16

Yes, this has been discussed before. So what? We should be able to discuss it as many times as we want. We are all well aware of Ruroshin's position on the matter. Which is the only one that counts.

As for me, I would be in favor of a ratio based tracker even if it's not 1:1. Even 1:2 or 1:3 would be more fair than what we have now. And yes the issue is one of fairness.

At the very least I'd love to see all of our ratios published along with our most current IP addresses. Then any of us could choose to manually ban the IPs of the worst leeches. Not only would that be fair but it would keep the torrents healthier for the rest of us. I would much rather give my limited upload bandwidth to someone uploading at a 3:1 ratio than someone uplloading at a 1:10 ratio. Not sure if this could be practically implemented though.

Note: could those of you who admitted to being leeches in this thread please post your IP addresses? <cough> that would be very helpful </cough>

I have an idea. Why not implement a ratio based tracker but in reverse. Anyone who uploads more than a 1:1 ratio is blocked from further uploads.

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Post by JadedAngel » Feb 1st, '05, 22:43

Carn wrote: Substitute "to study/to eat/to sleep" for "a ratio tracker system" and you've got it right on. =D
Exactly! It just takes all the fun out of downloading...Eventually there becomes more seeders than downloaders, and then you just don't want to download anymore because it takes too much work..... :crazy:

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Post by jholic » Feb 2nd, '05, 14:36

pariah_dog wrote:As for me, I would be in favor of a ratio based tracker even if it's not 1:1. Even 1:2 or 1:3 would be more fair than what we have now. And yes the issue is one of fairness.
i've always thought that this might be a decent ratio for people to keep. i mean, 1:1 is difficult for some people to keep. but if you're below a .300 share ratio (30%), that's a problem. i'm not just talking about one torrent, but your overall ratio (for all torrents on d-addicts).

for myself, i don't want a ratio-based tracker as bad as i want a NAT-MANDATORY tracker. in other words, in order to dl the torrent, you would have to pass the nat-check (http://btfaq.com/natcheck.pl) first. and i'm not complaining about my dl's. i'm talking about when i'm seeding. some torrents move so slowly, and i wonder if people know that they need to configure their routers/firewalls for bittorrent.

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Post by pepelepiu » Feb 9th, '05, 01:18

jholic wrote:
pariah_dog wrote: for myself, i don't want a ratio-based tracker as bad as i want a NAT-MANDATORY tracker. in other words, in order to dl the torrent, you would have to pass the nat-check (http://btfaq.com/natcheck.pl) first. and i'm not complaining about my dl's. i'm talking about when i'm seeding. some torrents move so slowly, and i wonder if people know that they need to configure their routers/firewalls for bittorrent.
This is an idea in the right direction, I can't count the number of times I see more peers listed than can be connected to (they can connect w/ me not vice versa),

I wonder if its possible to, depending on a website-based test of connectability, a)offer the torrent directly or b)takes the person to a page with instructions on how to open ports AND downloads the torrent.

That wmight make for a better d-addicts experience

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Post by beer » Feb 9th, '05, 05:09

I personally think that the number of people who have firewalled status simply due to ignorance is minimal. That they are rather a p2p urban myth. :P I have a personal acquaintance who is about as bright about computers as your average labrador retirever, but even he has consulted me about opening the ports.

Furthermore not every client who cannot accept your upload has blocked ports. Some traffic routes just pass through some bottlenecks and there's zilch you can do about them.

Though I'd certainly appreciate if I could finish my onetime seeding effort in 15 minutes rather than 15 hours or 15 days as it can happen.

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Post by RuMxZ » Feb 10th, '05, 16:18

pariah_dog wrote:I have an idea. Why not implement a ratio based tracker but in reverse. Anyone who uploads more than a 1:1 ratio is blocked from further uploads.
I'm sorry.. I just had to take up this one. Lol, I just cannot stop laughing at this comment.

Let me take by juding from your post.. You're a LEECH! Although I'm not saying you are (Just looking at your post). Block uploads on someone who has reached a upload ratio of One, am I right? Am I reading this wrong...? You're kidding, right?

Every god damn seeder/sharer damn right knows that *EVEN* with super-seed mode, you *ALWAYS* end up uploading at least 130% of the file before there's a seed.

Now... your 100% upload request will result in 0 completed downloads, with no more than ~0.95 distributed copies... am I right or wrong?

I'm sorry if I'm pushing you into a corner, but that one comment in this thread just made me hit the "Reply" button, and also drove me nuts.

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Post by pepelepiu » Feb 11th, '05, 03:14

RuMxZ wrote:
pariah_dog wrote:I have an idea. Why not implement a ratio based tracker but in reverse. Anyone who uploads more than a 1:1 ratio is blocked from further uploads.
I'm sorry.. I just had to take up this one. Lol, I just cannot stop laughing at this comment.
Original post was sarcastic i think - but interestingly the effect of a >1:1 ratio ban is to automatically eliminate the possibility leeches.. True the average uploader needs to seed about 1.3 but all of that time the leeches are by definition averaging <1:1..

anyway back to the theme, the leeches are hurting *themselves*, (usually not anyone else if the peers are large enough), if the strategy they take is to limit their upload as they will get proportionately low speeds - the system in the end is just about fair. Sometimes when I hear people complain about low speeds I wonder if they are leeches..
Anyway the system is just about fair I think..

To the person who ssaid they wanted list of leeches, banning leeches isn't a good idea since if your client CHOOSES to connect to a leech for a period of time greater than 5 min, then probably they are WORTH connecting to either because although a leech, they are offering you what you need.. To get the fastest DL speed on a torrent don't ban *anyone* and keep your upload the highest (about 80% of DL since too much will choke it).. this'll ensure you are connected to the most and best peers.. (the exception is if you are a seed but i digress far enough)

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Post by jholic » Feb 11th, '05, 04:22

pepelepiu wrote:anyway back to the theme, the leeches are hurting *themselves*, ...., if the strategy they take is to limit their upload as they will get proportionately low speeds
i believe this is true as well. one of my friends had an 18kB max upload speed or so. so he thought the best way to use it would be to dl four torrents at 4kB upload each. yet his dl speed was only 8-12kB per torrent. i told him to limit his torrent to TWO (8kb each) and his dl speeds went up to about 30k. when he allocated 16k (of his 18k) to ONE torrent, he started getting 60-80k.

folks, don't get greedy and try to dl too many torrents. you'll probably complete faster if you dl one or two at a time.
Last edited by jholic on Feb 12th, '05, 14:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by blakmetalik » Feb 11th, '05, 05:50

jholic wrote:folks, don't get greedy and try to dl too many torrents. you'll probably complete faster if you dl one or two at a time.
This is great advice. I found this to be true in my own experience. Dl'g too many torrents could very well result in not completing anything.

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Post by midnightblue » Feb 11th, '05, 06:10

I used to have something like 0.1Mbit up and 1Mbit down. You have to put some effort into it but even then one can seed and leech at an 1 to 1+ ratio. Everybody who leeches at a ratio less than 1 (+overhead) hurts the swarm. That's OK with me, not everybody is fortunate to live in a country with faster internet connections and there will always be differences. Solidarity will add to the bittorrent experience I think and make it more all more fun.

But not that few people manage to leech at even a 0.00 ratio on other trackers. Only on a seed only torrent should that occur. Otherwise even if you live in Mali you have to actively work on that to make that happen.

On the larger swarm torrents it doesn't make a difference if it comes to the completing of a download; it might take a little longer and a somewhat larger upload but one will get there. But on torrents with very few peers, a hit and run or ratios less than for example 0.10 can be quite annoying and have a big impact on the swarm.

The series of the month, vss and new torrents all seem to run well and with a little patience other torrents will eventually finnish as well. So I say if it ain't broke don't fix it.

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Post by pepelepiu » Feb 12th, '05, 03:33

jholic wrote: folks, don't get greedy and try to dl too many torrents. you'll probably complete faster if you dl one or two at a time.

I notice this all the time, excellent example of how limiting upload is hurting yourself and no-one else (if peers large enough)

On that note, for me downloading a couple of torrents at a time dramatically slows my ijnternet (eg,. google) even if i set my upload to very very low, my understanding is due to my own computer's IP protocol's bottlenecks (other people on my LAN are not affected).. Anyone know something about why or why my computer might be worse than others in this regard? I can't thihnk of what it might be: CPU speed? mine is not so fast..

finally, a free tip (+cost of delivery): Use or at least try Bitcomet or other Non-Java torrent clients. The reason is the overhead on your CPU is MUCH less and might even increase your performance.. Not really sure why people actually like Java-based clients like Azureus which is slower cpu-wise than eg., the C++ written bitcomet..

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Post by jholic » Feb 12th, '05, 14:27

pepe: can't figure out your problem of slow internet connection when bt'ing. it could be several things -

1. as you said, cpu memory is so full that computer can't perform other functions quickly.
2. dl speed is maxed out, so you can't dl enough info to your desktop, bt is hogging it all.
3. is more of a question. bcomet is not too configurable. are you sure it's not sucking up more upload than it should be?
pepelepiu wrote:finally, a free tip ...: Use or at least try Bitcomet or other Non-Java torrent clients.
that's a pretty good reason to use bcomet, but i still don't like the fact that several of the basic functions are not easily found or configurable. perhaps it will get better in later releases.

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Suggest to implement a ratio for seeders and leechers...

Post by nokiamania » Jun 21st, '05, 08:01

Hi! This is just my opinion and I just want to part it with you guys. I just want my opinion to reach the webmaster/owner of d-addicts.

I'm just wondering, why don't we implement a ratio for seeders and leechers for the torrent downloads here?

For example, if you get 1 Gig of files, you should at least give or upload 60% of what you had downloaded so far or else you won't be able to download. This kind of policy is being implemented in other torrent sites and it is quite effective. I've noticed that most of the torrent here have some seeds at the start but after a few weeks, there are no seeders anymore. It seems like people just get and go. They doesn't care if other people won't be able to get anything at all.

By implementing my suggestion, people will be forced to give to be able to maintain their ratio.

What do you guys think?

Thanks :)

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Post by NineTails » Jun 21st, '05, 08:14

This subject has been discussed many times on this forum...
if u do a search im sure you will find some....i also understand your reasoning behind this and also agree with you that having a ratio will help seeding but it also has it disadvantages, which im sure u might find out if u read the other posts...
On side note Ruro does not want to implement a ratio but that could change in the future since it has been a while since this topic was discussed....

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Post by groink » Jun 21st, '05, 08:21

I suggest this topic be merged with the topic below:

http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11502

--- groink

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Post by peacht » Jun 21st, '05, 16:54

My personal experience of this community is that every drama ever posted here that I have been interested in either has or is in the process of being reseeded.
I personally have answered numerous calls to ressed episodes or series requested which I have, whether I originally got them form here or not.
It seems to me that this system works well in this community, some will give more that others but if they give with love then there are no losers.
I can see all the reasons to instigate a credit based system but when something works so well without such strict rules then it makes me proud to be a part of it.
:D

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Post by jholic » Jun 22nd, '05, 06:58

peacht wrote: I personally have answered numerous calls to ressed episodes or series requested which I have, whether I originally got them form here or not.
...... it makes me proud to be a part of it.
well stated. :clap:

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Post by veritati » Jun 23rd, '05, 04:33

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's working fine the way it is. I do leech sometimes but I always come back later-when there are a lot less seeders-and help to seed. And If I see someone asking for help from the shout box, I answer too. Sometimes when I am downloading more than one torrent, if I see one torrent has 50+ seeders I will stop seeding that one (even if my ratio is like 0.2) and seed something that has like <5 seeders. x-fury is where I see people only leech. There are mostly hit-and-runs there. I see like 50-100 completes in the beginning but there would be like 3 seeders remain. It's ridiculous. That makes me mad so I only give 110% back instead of more. Here, there's always a seed if you need it. When my HD crashed and I lost a bunch of old files, I was able to get everything back. D-Addicts is a great community unlike others so newbies should stop complaining.

Another thing to point out is that sometimes my ratio is 2-3 by the time I finished. If I stop seeding after I reach 100% and my ratio is 2 or 3, does that mean I am a leecher? I think there are different kinds of leechers. The ones that share and the kind that don't. Some people might not have enough UL bandwidth to give back right away, too. I can DL at 350 KB/s but limited to UL of only 60 KB/s. Bittorrent was designed for equal sharing, meaning DL=UL. But with different clients out there limiting this and that, it's impossible to have equal sharing. I don't mind having leechers who stop seeding after they finished as long as they share some of what they got. The worst kind of leeching is when someone is connected to the original uploader and getting like 50KB/s yet only set his/her client to share/UL at 5KB/s. Everybody cannot be connected to the original uploader so the speed of each torrent depends on how much the people who are connected share.
Last edited by veritati on Jun 23rd, '05, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.

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