Why the claim of HDTV ?

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pcasado
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Why the claim of HDTV ?

Post by pcasado » Jul 20th, '07, 12:15

Why people claim their releases as HDTV?

just because it have the watermark with the HDTV?
Sure, maybe were broadcasted or captured at an HDTV resolution
but NOT posted (shared) as it.

HDTV-Resolutions are 720p (1280x720/16:9), 1080i (1920x1080/16:9) or higher.

for example, Lots of releases have resolution size of or around " 800 x 450 "
That is "NOT" HIGH DEFINITION, is NOT even the poorest and lower HD Quality.

The nearest "Registered" type (near from this resolution) is called
EDTV ("Enhanced-Definition TV"), with a resolution size of "852 x 480 " pixels.
(we're talking about pure digital, right?)

also this resolution (852 x 480) was used as pre-HDTV, so is not real or native HDTV.

Yes!,of course is an excellent quality, quite similar (meaning near)
as the ones used for DVD, DV (480i NTSC or 576i PAL) or SDTV (480i, 576i).

Lets face it, IT IS NOT HDTV...(and again, excellent Quality,YES, but is not HDTV).

Why not the use of HQ or EDTV instead of HDTV ???, personally I, get confused
and when I display this videos in a HD-big screen-TV, feels like my eyes wants to melt
because of the video quality, not mentioning the loss that cause the conversion of codecs
(from MPEG2 to XVid, DiVX, etc.) since majority of TV stations (just to not say all of them) broadcast their HDTV channels/shows as MPEG-2 (is the common codec used for this type of quality)

so again, why do they claim is HDTV?
... Otherwise, all apart from the rest is just Mental !...

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gryzze
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Post by gryzze » Jul 20th, '07, 12:34

They don't clame they are. Uploads labeled HDTV, SDTV, DVD etc refers to the source not the video itself.

Do you really expect people to upload true HDTV videos?

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pcasado
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Post by pcasado » Jul 20th, '07, 13:11

Is not that I "expect", but if is labeled as HDTV, isn't suppose to be HDTV?

as I said before, even if the source was HDTV, why is labeled as that?

I've seen (in other sites) where series and sports events are posted in real HDTV
Yes, majority are at 720, but is still HDTV...
and Yes, I know the size that takes to hold and necessary bandwidth for HDTV Quality video.. I really do...(Thanks to previews projects that I've had work with DVB, MHP on STBs)

I'm NOT trying to offend or upset anyone with my thought, neither criticize the GOOD JOB, WORK, TIME and EFFORT that this people do and give just for the love of arts ...is just that I see quite improper (?) to label them with HDTV, (again) yes, maybe the source was, but the final product (one which all of us here enjoy) is not, and Yes, I know is in Good/High Quality compared to other files...

That's what am referring to.

Is just a thought, nothing to be taken personal..
Last edited by pcasado on Jul 20th, '07, 13:53, edited 1 time in total.
... Otherwise, all apart from the rest is just Mental !...

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XiaoPauli
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Post by XiaoPauli » Jul 20th, '07, 13:22

Hmm...pcasado makes an excellent point.

I think the reason why they retain the HDTV labeling is because the source file was labeled as such. In order to keep consistency with the file name, the HDTV in the file name is retained. It's unfortunate the source material would be labeled as such though.

I guess it all comes down to uniformity of the file name vs. the accuracy the file name.

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Post by gryzze » Jul 20th, '07, 13:36

Good or bad, this is probably the most common way of labeling tv releases. The reason for that is probably because it was adopted by "the scene":
http://tinyurl.com/39q596

D-addicts doesn't demand that this system is used, it's pretty much up to each uploader.

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Post by Xi@h » Jul 20th, '07, 13:56

pcasado wrote:Is not that I "expect", but if is labeled as HDTV, isn't suppose to be HDTV?

as I said before, even if the source was HDTV, why is labeled as that?

I've seen (in other sites) where series are posted in real HDTV
Yes, majority are at 720, but is still HDTV...


I'm NOT trying to offend or upset anyone with my thought ...is just that I see
quite improper to label them with HDTV,(yes, maybe the source was, but the final
product is not, and Yes, is in Good/High Quality compared to other files)..

That's what am referring to.

Is just a thought, nothing to be taken personal..
Does labeling really bother you?

Honestly speaking, it's just a reference to the file source and we don't even care about proper labeling as long as we have adequate video quality.

As you might have noticed, nobody was concerned about the right labeling until you came up with it LOL

So I don’t think it really bother us. If you’re so anal about labeling the end result video quality then good that you have voiced out your concern.

Cheerio!

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Post by Puppet Princess » Jul 20th, '07, 16:55

Why would anyone expect something they watch on their computer to ever actually be HD?
Even if the file was HD (which would make it freaking huge) most people don't have a system remotely close to being able to handle it, so what difference does it make?

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pcasado
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Why is the controversy?

Post by pcasado » Jul 20th, '07, 18:00

---Puppet princess---
- "Why would anyone expect something they watch on their computer to ever actually be HD? "
Princess, Are you aware of Media Center PC's? or the STB’s (set-top boxes)?

You see the cable box? That is a STB, you see the satellites receiver, is a STB, you see those PVR systems? those are STBs, which means have a processor, a video/sound card, card reader even USB ports where you can connect an external HDD... and the list goes on with the features that this devices have and can do (very long list)...even today’s game consoles are based parts STB...

Also my princess, HD-TVs has DVI ports where you can connect your PC video card
(Desktop or laptop, also those STB's that I mention before, use that port for HDTV, for you to enjoy in the big screen...

Also, are you aware of the existence of the DVB-S/H/C hardware/devices for PC's?
Where you receive FTA or assigned streams?

Ask this to yourself and I really hope you get an answer.... Why people use IPTV in a 52" HDTV? , doesn't sound similar to the question that you ask?

Well puppet princess, for the taste, there is the colors... you don't like it? You don't need it? Found that is irrelevant and illogic? Well, sorry about this, but there are other that quite don’t follow those thoughts... (And you guess well, I am one of those).

No offense intentions, but just because you don’t like the idea or don’t need the use of those equipments together, does not mean that others like it and enjoy doing so…

But I think I get your point, to just "watch" and to "enjoy" a video are very different things, even if you liked the movie or not, do you use the “most” to practically and actually enjoy what you watch In the computer or in the TV?

It does sound that bad? Wanting to watch your shows in a big screen with a really good and clear image and a really good and clear audio? , for me, it sounds GREAT!.... EXCELENT! I shall say.
But sadly, my location gives no opportunity to grab satellite signal with such content, cable programming or FTA with HDTV Regular Asian or South Korean programming)

That is my purpose and main idea, to enjoy native HDTV video in a HD-TV…

And I really don’t get “WHY” the controversy to doing so… or to understand why some files are labeled as HDTV when they are not real native, not even as High-Definition as the “term” shall and should point to the (at least) video resolution…


----Xi@h---
Does it bother you that much, that someone just asks about a "WHY IS SO?"...
Preservation and cooperation with the silence is the less "DECENT" thing to do in cases like this... because you are not giving any answer, neither a logical point to take as consideration to understand...

Does it bother you that much, that someone ask why and how is the procedure of labeling files as that?....is it common?….

And since you are so anatomical, with all due the respect, but actually you're the one who is being "anal" as mean...

And why is that you make no sense at all? Simple because I am not criticizing, I am not arguing with this people about how they should name their work, I am not ordering to do something or change the way they are and do their work and things, I am just asking.....a simple question...

- "WHY IS SO? WHAT SHOULD I UNDERSTAND BY THESE LABELS?"
The file says HDTV but the quality itself is not, I get the details about the content, but no properties or reference at all about the “media file” itself,

A simple example, something like this:
Video: MPEG2 Video 1920x1088 (16:9) 29.97fps 18030Kbps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz stereo 384Kbps [Audio]
Subtitle: DVD Subpicture [Subtitle]

Does it bother you that much?


Believe me when I say, “Am the type of person who really don’t like to bother in/to others people work”
I respect them, but if a doubt emerge, and in this case, I ask, why is so? And how is it? And if I feel to and have to, I give my opinion.
I don’t demand that my opinion have to be taken in consideration, since I have my doubts, I just ask (as it should be) and besides…. they are the makers, is their product and I guess is how they like it to be as it please them and conform or comfort them, And there is no need for the use of rudeness. Which I believe is a very rudimentary way of behavior.

Just that simple


----- GRYZZE------
http://tinyurl.com/39q596 --- >???

Standard for Wa.rez?
... Just Like Standard procedures to code? I was teach and taught by professionals and learn in the IT field, that matters like this one is exactly the ones that doesn't have an standard, since the "Software Standardization" is not taken in consideration and is always covered and put it in the dark by "choice"(what people likes and how they feel more comfortable doing so),also the "need" factor is where it take place here (because the used method(s) to pack and/or distribute and for the use of this “wrz”).And reading that post, it start making this "standard" as a "people choice" with tools or utilities that you will "need", which is kind of the opposite of standardization since "no rule" is taken in consideration... as I understand so.

But, if by standardization we should proceed (as I understand the point), Then the “standards” for HDTV, DVB or MHP creators and developers are wrong? …Because right now, "they”' are practically “ruling” the future of video broadcasting with a set of procedures and standards. (According to what you recommend me to read, which I kindly appreciate the link and the given information).

Not getting too deep into terminology and references, but because this standardization I should understand that according the ITU-R, HDTV means “at least” 720p and 16:9 aspect radio , or not?,
Also, and not getting too deep into the codecs, but HDTV “currently” use the DVB, cable, satellites and FTA stations that broadcast this codec-media type, “far as I am aware”, when they specify just DVB as codec, is an MPEG-2 (same as DVB-S ,as they mandate as the stream procedures)but also some HDTVs channels use MPEG-4 & H264, then why this labeled HDTV files are in Divx or XiVD, compression because of the size, then isn’t “breaking’ the standardization?? (now am more aware about what I am going to get for me to watch), Now, the term “High-definition” can be and refers just to the video resolution, but then again, my question and doubt is, here… HDTV means that as well?

That was my question from my doubt, why it says HDTV? When quality (of what am going to watch) is not really “that” good…

But GRYZZE, you make the point clear to me, telling me what is commonly used in the area.

-----
I remember way before, time ago; files were labeled with the resolution, like the tag and properties of the files, along with the used codec. just "like" when you can find "native" HDTV quality video files, they use the resolution label type, file_name(720p), file_name(1080i or p).., Yes, they are pretty BIG files, but again, is the accuracy and the movie properties of what "You're going to get"..., not how they got it.. And is the “Choice” of the grabber to take it or not.

Again, am not trying to upset anyone here or criticize any given effort , I "only" just want to be clear of what "am I" going to grab, to enjoy watching (and I guess other would like to know that too, and I’ve read about it in other sites, Which helps to grow my concern)... and again, I do respect the work and effort that this people do an the time they expend doing so.

Since the behavior and manners of some(s) here (Which it really makes me sad to know how abound the lack of perception and how some(s) just think by and for themselves in a so call "Share Community" site)


As GRYZZE guide me and practically told me (as I understand it and thanks); It is just “a way” to make others to know the “source” (for the subject that I am aware of) and not exactly that they are “referring to” as the final quality (what you’re going to get and enjoy watching).

Thanks GRYZZE for the provided link. Quite interesting, though

Thanks XiaoPauli for your answer (that is the point of my doubt, which I wanted to understand)
- “I guess it all comes down to uniformity of the file name vs. the accuracy the file name.”


Again, I personally thank encoders, decoders, subtitlers, seeders among others who contribute in the matter, progress and good sake of this site…… but I sadly just opt to ignore the issue and subject.



Thanks and Have a Good Day everyone!
... Otherwise, all apart from the rest is just Mental !...

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groink
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Post by groink » Jul 20th, '07, 18:09

Troll. Ignore him.

--- groink

ap
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Post by ap » Jul 20th, '07, 21:49

groink wrote:Troll. Ignore him.

--- groink

HEY, i was gonna say that :lol :lol :lol

ap

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Post by FoolyDooly » Jul 21st, '07, 13:31

It's because Korea and some other Asian countries do not Fully broadcast in 720p / 1024p, but instead do it in 480i / 720i / (Japan's only country that has full-capacity in world to broadcast everything in 1024p at the moment). Also, even though I believe Korea's broadcasting in such signal, it requires receiver, and those Rip materials are just harder to acquire.

Plus, higher definition will increase the filesize.

If you really wanna talk about legality, it's wrong ( Source of Proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-defin ... resolution ), but it's 16:9, and it doesn't make too much difference once you watch it on TV (unless you're like my family, and watching Rips on DVD or something). It only gets annoying and confusing if you're thinking too hard about PC res. So just give up. 8)

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Post by pcasado » Jul 21st, '07, 21:02

Let me begin saying that am really thankful for your information, but the subject responses kind did a change toward too technical and out of the main question, I guess I didn't question right; My doubt was about some post where the media files says HDTV, but I got into the conclusion (because of the responses) that some people specify the "source" of the capture and not exactly the final product of it and there is not an accommodated rule or standard in naming them (which I know from previews experience). I just wanted to know why it says HDTV and the properties of "what I get" is not into that category of quality; because of experience from other sites, where I could grab native HDTV captures and the media files are labeled with HDTV(720 or 1080, "p" or "i", etc)., That's why my doubt; Yes, I agree that is in a better and good quality in front of other media files that you can find and which...it still gratify me.
FoolyDooly wrote:It's because Korea and some other Asian countries do not Fully broadcast in 720p / 1024p, but instead do it in 480i / 720i / (Japan's only country that has full-capacity in world to broadcast everything in 1024p at the moment).
Thanks for this interesting clarification about the stations broadcasting, since I know, NTT Electronics is the company that implement the HDTV technology to MBC (1 of the top 5 TV Stations), so I guess the others TV Stations will not just play "sit and watch"... (so I guess they can't be too far from japan current quality), even the South Korean government has and still investing lot of money on this HDTV subject (from years ago), but I personally don't know how above or beyond is South Korea from Japan about TV broadcasting competency.

I have seen and check some captures from 2 different South Korea channels that has been passed directly to me by friends from other countries where they can get this broadcast signals, different TV shows presents different format.

this are examples of the properties from some of this media files as is how this stream capture devices reports (This are FTA and Compliant DVB [(MP@LL/ML/HL] capture equipments).

From SBS-HD:
Video: MPEG2 Video 1920x1088 (16:9) 29.97fps 17050Kbps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz stereo 384Kbps [Audio]

Video: MPEG2 Video 1920x1088 (16:9) 29.97fps 18030Kbps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz stereo 384Kbps [Audio]

Video: MPEG2 Video 1024x576 29.97fps 8000Kbps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz stereo 192Kbps [Audio]


MBC-HD
Video: MPEG2 Video 1920x1088 (16:9) 29.97fps 18000Kbps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz stereo 192Kbps [Audio]


I know and understand that not all shows runs at the top or lower resolution, I know that it depends if the show is a live or a recorded show and the media format of the source from where they acquire what they are going to broadcast...and there is not 24/7 HD programming available. I am aware of that factor (besides more than the 35% of programming from KBS, MBC, SBS, or EBS is HD).
FoolyDooly wrote: Also, even though I believe Korea's broadcasting in such signal, it requires receiver, and those Rip materials are just harder to acquire.
Oh c'mon... is not that hard, from less than 100$ you can get a GOOD HDTV receiver for your computer or with a little more can get an add-on for your STB, besides if you use subscribed services, the equipment for sure is not expensive. and not hard to get...or tell me, how much it cost an iPod and how much of that you see on the street?... is everywhere !!, and media (audio/video) enthusiast always looking a way to improve and accommodate their pleasure. same as you see gamers with countless gadgets which are not quite cheap.

what I mean by that is ... "If you want, you can",

FoolyDooly wrote:Plus, higher definition will increase the filesize.
I know that, just 1 minute is around 150MB (more or less) and I know that acquirement also is an "option" from the downloader. what I mean is, that is up to the interested part to get it or not... or the space and time that entail and mean to get it. I am very aware of that factor too..... Same as am aware that a VDSL connection in South Korea (KT) or EU monthly cost is comparative with a ADSL connection in USA.
FoolyDooly wrote:If you really wanna talk about legality, it's wrong ( Source of Proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-defin ... resolution )
I read the post, but I couldn't find nothing about what you mean, mentioning the legal terms...

Am not talking about "legality" and if is because so, am talking about broadcasted shows that not all of them are in sale and acquirement is not for public display or to make profit of it, even when all material from this stations have their rules and statements, Content Copyrights, Registered and/or Trademarks, but is not my case and not my concern here since am very aware of those terms and the proper use or acquirements methods of such material... besides, is not illegal to have a PVR system (as it stand for "personal") and there is nothing illegal in my thoughts...
FoolyDooly wrote: ..., but it's 16:9, and it doesn't make too much difference once you watch it on TV (unless you're like my family, and watching Rips on DVD or something). It only gets annoying and confusing if you're thinking too hard about PC res.


I Couldn't agree more on that, it is annoying and it is confusing, and not just only on PC resolutions, but TV sets have a wide range of display methods and technologies; Saying that is kind the same as the difference you see between VCD and DVD, is just crystal clear.
FoolyDooly wrote:...So just give up. 8)

I did, just as some says "infinity is so hard to comprehend"...

I just wait and see... wait and see....


Thanks, I personally appreciate your reply and the given information..
... Otherwise, all apart from the rest is just Mental !...

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Post by Puppet Princess » Jul 22nd, '07, 01:34

My point was... the people who go through all that trouble to watch something they download off the internet is insignificantly small in comparison to the people who watch it on a crappy monitor. So the question of the file really being HD is irrelevant because so far you seem to be the only one who cares.

If you want to be sure of high quality, stop downloading things from the internet and go by the damn DVDs. At least then we wont have to pretend to read you unnecessarily long and boring posts just so you can whine.
Last edited by Puppet Princess on Jul 22nd, '07, 02:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by FoolyDooly » Jul 22nd, '07, 02:13

Actually, DVD doesn't have that good quality either, overall. Just like to throw that up. DVD isn't even near-perfect when it comes to Asian Dramas.......

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Post by Puppet Princess » Jul 22nd, '07, 02:18

Then why expect a TV rip to be any better?

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Post by FoolyDooly » Jul 22nd, '07, 04:10

Actually, that was the reason why he complained.......

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