Boys Before Flowers (KBS2) Korean version of "Meteor Ga
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Aug 22nd, '07, 16:50
- Location: Stockholm
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Aug 22nd, '07, 16:50
- Location: Stockholm
Jazzl wrote:@mahirghari ---> http://arashi.vox.com/, read about the ep 17
thank you so much Jazzi, you rock!
Omg, did you guys see the new Anycall Haptic cf featuring our lovely F3? Soooo cute!
I mean, say whatever you say about this drama, but the guys totally have charisma and great chemistry when they get together!
Anycall Haptic cf on Allkpop.
Cute and huuuuge wallpapers, too!
I mean, say whatever you say about this drama, but the guys totally have charisma and great chemistry when they get together!
Anycall Haptic cf on Allkpop.
Cute and huuuuge wallpapers, too!
handsome handsome handsome It was funny and so cuteSSpiegel wrote:Omg, did you guys see the new Anycall Haptic cf featuring our lovely F3? Soooo cute!
I mean, say whatever you say about this drama, but the guys totally have charisma and great chemistry when they get together!
Anycall Haptic cf on Allkpop.
Cute and huuuuge wallpapers, too!
btw i like ur sig
wait one question they play some new songs right in episode 17 right ???
-
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Feb 6th, '06, 16:47
-
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mar 28th, '04, 08:25
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Feb 6th, '06, 16:47
it is pretty sad... i like his character, but at the same time, you have to admit... he's not doing anything, lol. YiJung has a bigger role than the previous Nishikados (I feel like at least), but Woo Bin's role is small..Jazzl wrote:i had the feeling from the beginning till now.. that the series would do fine even without him as f3... ist's really said cause i think he isn't that bad but it looks like his role isn't that important.
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
This is very tragic news but Jang Ja Yeon who plays "Sunny" passed away at 7:49 PM...
http://community.livejournal.com/hanayo ... 03834.html
credits: soompi
http://community.livejournal.com/hanayo ... 03834.html
credits: soompi
It is so sad...Jazzl wrote:so sad...
http://www.hanfever.com/2009/03/08/jang ... #more-2713(got this from another thread)
Honestly, I feel bad for the Korean BOF production. All the high expectations, all the accidents with the cast, and now even a loss of a cast member. Seems like the show really is cursed...
Episode 17 looked really bad for my fandom...
Anyway, this is the first version for me where I actually like the Domyoji -character. And I like Hyun Joong's Ji Hoo, too. In this version it's painfully clear that he likes Jan Di and they look quite nice together, too. But Jun Pyo is totally likable, and they look like they really like each other (J J). I dunno, I've never liked both of the guys that pursue the main lady, so this is really hard for me. Poor Rui/Ji Hoo, I'll just have to always feel bad for him...
Episode 17 looked really bad for my fandom...
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
SSpiegel wrote:In this version it's painfully clear that he likes Jan Di and they look quite nice together, too.
Right!? In both the Taiwanese & Japanese versions, I couldn't 100% feel that Hua Zhe Lei/Hanazawa Rui really did like Shan Cai/Makino but in this version, all those side glances and long stares that Ji Hoo gives Jan Di is a dead giveaway that he clearly likes her and may in fact even love her. And God, if those forlorn looks of the puppy dog-eyed Kim Hyun Joong doesn't get my heart pounding, I don't know what does. In the manga special, we were able to get a look into Rui's head/heart...and it can pretty much be ascertained that he did in fact love Makino, considering he got upset when Makino encouraged him to give "Kimiko" a chance. (oh man, Doumouyji soooo killed me there. LOL)
Shun's "Rui" did a lot for Makino, but Hyun Joong's "Ji Hoo" was ALWAYS there every time Jan Di was in trouble.
While I've always liked MatsuJun's portrayal of Doumouyji, I feel his character to be too over the top sometimes. Lee Min Ho's Jun Pyo makes you want to root for him no matter how jerky he can be at times, even the "fake" Jun Pyo in Macau. Because, c'mon wasn't that airport scene heart-wrenching? Him on the floor crying like that really broke my heart.SSpiegel wrote:But Jun Pyo is totally likable, and they look like they really like each other (J J).
My hidden truth: I always root for Rui's character! (I mean even though I know in the end Makino is always going to choose Doumouyji) In all three versions, I've always voted for the one who didn't get the girl because Rui's character was nothing short of perfect. In fact, even his autistic mannerisms just made him more dreamy.SSpiegel wrote:I dunno, I've never liked both of the guys that pursue the main lady, so this is really hard for me. Poor Rui/Ji Hoo, I'll just have to always feel bad for him...
So it doesn't come as a surprise that I'm also rooting Ji Hoo...even it's hopeless to root for him, I can't stop, just like how I can't seem to stop staring at Hyun Joong ever since he cut his hair.
Totally. I was never sure if Rui actually liked liked Makino, or was he just kind of... pushing Domyoji to do the right thing, or something. But here, man, Ji Hoo is just heart wrenching! Honestly, I didn't think much of Hyun Joong in the beginning, he was just so bad, but he's gotten better (or I've just gotten used to him ). He looks like he's physically hurting because he likes Jan Di so much!lilswtangel wrote:
Right!? In both the Taiwanese & Japanese versions, I couldn't 100% feel that Hua Zhe Lei/Hanazawa Rui really did like Shan Cai/Makino but in this version, all those side glances and long stares that Ji Hoo gives Jan Di is a dead giveaway that he clearly likes her and may in fact even love her. And God, if those forlorn looks of the puppy dog-eyed Kim Hyun Joong doesn't get my heart pounding, I don't know what does.
Shun's "Rui" did a lot for Makino, but Hyun Joong's "Ji Hoo" was ALWAYS there every time Jan Di was in trouble.
Man, that airport scene was pure genius. I especially liked how the whatchamacallit, butler or whatever, held him on the floor. I felt like crying!lilswtangel wrote:
While I've always liked MatsuJun's portrayal of Doumouyji, I feel his character to be too over the top sometimes. Lee Min Ho's Jun Pyo makes you want to root for him no matter how jerky he can be at times, even the "fake" Jun Pyo in Macau. Because, c'mon wasn't that airport scene heart-wrenching? Him on the floor crying like that really broke my heart.
lilswtangel wrote:
My hidden truth: I always root for Rui's character! (I mean even though I know in the end Makino is always going to choose Doumouyji) In all three versions, I've always voted for the one who didn't get the girl because Rui's character was nothing short of perfect. In fact, even his autistic mannerisms just made him more dreamy.
So it doesn't come as a surprise that I'm also rooting Ji Hoo...even it's hopeless to root for him, I can't stop, just like how I can't seem to stop staring at Hyun Joong ever since he cut his hair.
I've always rooted for Rui, too! He is the quiet beauty and always a perfect gentleman. It's totally a waste of my energy, but I still find myself rooting for him even tho I already know how it ends. I guess I can't help it, I'm a Rui fangirl.
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Jan 5th, '07, 18:48
- Location: New York
Hey is the second OST out yet? If so can you post up a link???
I'm really looking for that one Second Moon song, the instrumental one that played when Ji Hoo was at the hospital with Jan Di (who collapsed) and kissed her fingers while she was unconscious. The song appeared in Goong S.
Anyway if you have a link to the OST or the song especially please let me know!!!!!!!!
I'm really looking for that one Second Moon song, the instrumental one that played when Ji Hoo was at the hospital with Jan Di (who collapsed) and kissed her fingers while she was unconscious. The song appeared in Goong S.
Anyway if you have a link to the OST or the song especially please let me know!!!!!!!!
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
I never really rooted for the "Rui" character until now. In the other versions he was just always too quiet and in the background. Even though Ji Hoo is still a quiet character, he is always there for Jan Di and always tries to help her. And you really do get a much better sense of his feelings in this version.
Totally off subject, for those of you who have seen Meteor Garden, the actor who plays Hua Zhe Lei also plays the lead in the TW version of Mars. Anyone else here think that Hyan Joong would also be great in that role? I want to see Japanese and Korean versions of Mars, Marmalade Boy, and Peach Girl!
Totally off subject, for those of you who have seen Meteor Garden, the actor who plays Hua Zhe Lei also plays the lead in the TW version of Mars. Anyone else here think that Hyan Joong would also be great in that role? I want to see Japanese and Korean versions of Mars, Marmalade Boy, and Peach Girl!
I don´t think Woo Bin had suicidal thoughts, he was just frustrated. I don´t understand why they put this scene there too, it doesn´t make much sense but maybe when you think about it deeply, you may see the connection between Woo Bin and Yi Jung. Because Yi Jung was by Woo Bin side when he needed him, that´s why Woo Bin tries to support Yi Jung now, when he is so down.
Btw, I dont get only one thing: are all the asian people stupid to put someone who is dripping wet and running fever in bed with their clothes on?! WTF?! I was surprised thet Jan Di managed to take off Ji Hoo´s shoes O_O
Btw, I dont get only one thing: are all the asian people stupid to put someone who is dripping wet and running fever in bed with their clothes on?! WTF?! I was surprised thet Jan Di managed to take off Ji Hoo´s shoes O_O
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
The scene with Woo Bin and Yi Jung
offtopic:
@ Zarine: I would love to see a Japanese remake of Mars & Marmalade Boy. Vic did an EXCELLENT job as Ling in "Mars", my favorite role of his yet. Though I was totally creeped out by his mother and all those winding staircases in the flashbacks. *shivers* (supporter of Barbie/ZaiZai forever!) Plus, it gave us Hua Zhe Lei/Shan Chai fans something to fangirl over. I was honestly disappointed that she got back with Dao Ming Shi in Meteor Garden 2, he was such a jackass there.
But the Taiwanese version of "Marmalade Boy" was mediocre at best, I couldn't even finish watching it. The chemistry between Ken Zhu and the female lead just wasn't there.
@ Zarine: I would love to see a Japanese remake of Mars & Marmalade Boy. Vic did an EXCELLENT job as Ling in "Mars", my favorite role of his yet. Though I was totally creeped out by his mother and all those winding staircases in the flashbacks. *shivers* (supporter of Barbie/ZaiZai forever!) Plus, it gave us Hua Zhe Lei/Shan Chai fans something to fangirl over. I was honestly disappointed that she got back with Dao Ming Shi in Meteor Garden 2, he was such a jackass there.
But the Taiwanese version of "Marmalade Boy" was mediocre at best, I couldn't even finish watching it. The chemistry between Ken Zhu and the female lead just wasn't there.
Off topic too, but I agree when are the Japanese or Korean going to remake Mars and Marmalade Boy (not interested in Peach Girl because that whole story has a very very annoying character who can't make up her mind). Either the Japanese or Korean can really pull off an angst driven character really well. Need two really really dynamic actor and actress for Mars. As for Marmalade Boy, it's set up is kind of like Hana Yori Dango with all the love triangles and it's a high school story going to college. Hopefully some PDs are seeing these posts and reading our wishesZarine wrote: Totally off subject, for those of you who have seen Meteor Garden, the actor who plays Hua Zhe Lei also plays the lead in the TW version of Mars. Anyone else here think that Hyan Joong would also be great in that role? I want to see Japanese and Korean versions of Mars, Marmalade Boy, and Peach Girl!
I guess the only character I did like from the Taiwanese Meteor Garden was Vic Zhou as Rui. I mean he played the quiet, no emotion type really well and after MG, he totally improved his acting especially in Mars and his introverted character in Wish To See You Again.
1. Why oh why can't people recognize their ex-president and how did he become a doctor?
2. Who was Yi Jung referring to when he was talking about a "kid" in his sleep?
3. Can a person hear anything with a helmet on (Ji hoo using cell this way)?
4. Jae Kyung must really be stupid or pretending to not know the relationship between Jun Pyo and Jandi and just really manipulative.
Anyways, don't you guys think the young F4s are soooo adorable and cute.
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
Same here. I never did like the group "F4" much after they debuted from the drama...aside from Ken and Vic. Never got to finish watching "Wish To See You Again", that was the one where he played this eccentric novelist who fell for the hotel staff, right?garnet07 wrote:I guess the only character I did like from the Taiwanese Meteor Garden was Vic Zhou as Rui. I mean he played the quiet, no emotion type really well and after MG, he totally improved his acting especially in Mars and his introverted character in Wish To See You Again.
1. Tell me about it! I really want to know more about the ex-president and his relationship with Jan Di & Ga Eul's boss\boss's father.garnet07 wrote:So far there are tidbits of questions that are still unanswered for this series:
1. Why oh why can't people recognize their ex-president and how did he become a doctor?
2. Who was Yi Jung referring to when he was talking about a "kid" in his sleep?
3. Can a person hear anything with a helmet on (Ji hoo using cell this way)?
4. Jae Kyung must really be stupid or pretending to not know the relationship between Jun Pyo and Jandi and just really manipulative.
Anyways, don't you guys think the young F4s are soooo adorable and cute.
2. Hmmms...probably not Ga Eul but ummm...the other one (I forgot her name...^^;;) - the pottery teacher, though I'm not 100% sure. Works either way, huh?
3. OMFG! LOL!!!! I thought I was the ONLY one who caught notice of that!!!!!!! It happened like 10x already...for some reason Ji Hoo's always on his bike whenever he's on the phone. Like WTH, how does one hold a conversation with a metal helmet on his head?...how could the director miss something as huge as that? and multiple times at that, too. ;3;
4. No, she knows. Otherwise she wouldn't have made up that lie about "not sleeping a wink with Jun Pyo" at the spa place meanwhile Jun Pyo actually left earlier during the night. Notice how Ji Hoo caught the lie and stayed silent about it... She probably did that to test Jan Di's reaction. BINGO when she dropped the knife. Then there was the "truth/dare" question Jae Kyung asked Jun Pyo when they got back to his house, about "whether he would choose love or friendship."
that is true, i guess they read that he need more screen time or something and they came with this I was shocked to see it that I got madtkah wrote:
[/spoiler]The bridge scene was just too short and random to make any sense. I don't remember that character having suicidal thoughts in any of the other versions.
that was uncalled for
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Oct 19th, '04, 02:22
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1171046misuzana wrote:wait did two episode play thisweek as well or was it just one again ?????????
thankz for the link ...lilswtangel wrote:http://www.d-addicts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1171046misuzana wrote:wait did two episode play thisweek as well or was it just one again ?????????
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Feb 1st, '09, 20:27
- Location: Ohio,USA
-
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Apr 8th, '08, 04:43
- Location: Seattle, WA, USA
I'm coming late into this drama and into this discussion, which is too bad, because I'm enjoying the Korean version immensely. I have to say that to me it's the best so far. I love how they adapting the manga. The little twists and turns that have been added made the story much more plausible and human. And the backstory they gave to Ji Hoo (Rui) goes a long way to explain the character aloofness and at the same time gives him room to "thaw" as Jan Di enters his life. The script is so much better than I can forgive the few directing mistakes (like putting a soaked wet Ji Hoo in bed with coat and tie on *sigh*).
The drama has been perfectly cast. Lee Min Ho is excellent, but everybody else is very convincing in their roles. I know that my heart will break in many more pieces when this version of Rui ends up without Makino. Or should I say "if"?
The drama has been perfectly cast. Lee Min Ho is excellent, but everybody else is very convincing in their roles. I know that my heart will break in many more pieces when this version of Rui ends up without Makino. Or should I say "if"?
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Feb 1st, '09, 20:27
- Location: Ohio,USA
LOL, lots of blood and one of your favorite F4 actor is in the movie, Kim Bum (So Yi Jung).WeDwellNForever wrote:Nevermind, I found the name of the horror movie. It's called Gosa aka The Story. It looks good too. Now I'm going to have to find a copy.
[Edit] Apparently it's also called Death Bell since that's the name I just found it under. Yay!!
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Aug 22nd, '07, 16:50
- Location: Stockholm
Hey anyone, I just wanted to know if this instrumental could be found or downloaded anywhere. Or if anyone knows what its called or anything about it. Its been played in some other episodes but I have a clip of episode 23 that plays this music. Its the song at the beginning, there is a piano and a violin version:
Please, I hope someone can help me out, really want a track of that music. And its not on any of the OST's, 1,2, or 2.5 SO yeah, thanks!!!!
Please, I hope someone can help me out, really want a track of that music. And its not on any of the OST's, 1,2, or 2.5 SO yeah, thanks!!!!
Episode 21, really...
I dunno, it's so hard to pick favorites in this drama. Jun Pyo is great, but Ji Hoo is great, too. I was so sceptical in the beginning about the whole cast, but it's really been the best choice. Min Ho is just excellent as Jun Pyo, no one is as pretty as Hyun Joong, so he's the best choice as the beautiful Ji Hoo (he's totally not an embarrasment for the rest of the cast anymore, he's actually pretty good now). Kim Bum, ah, so handsome. I'd like to say he's my favorite, but Kim Joon's Woo Bin is great, too, and not bad-looking at all. I think, after the rocky start ("yo yo", anyone?), Kim Joon has been a great supporter. Even tho he hasn't been on that much, I think he is the glue of F4. He has great chemistry with everyone in the cast. All in all, there's been a lot to watch out for, and it's really very rare for me to like so much , it's hard for me to name what I like the most!
The drama is drawing to an end and while the are some things that I know that will happen, I must be really careful from now on to not get spoiled. I already stumbled on a regrettable spoiler about epi 23 on Allkpop, so I'll probably just have to stay out of every site I might get spoiled in. I want to see the end with my own two eyes!
The drama is drawing to an end and while the are some things that I know that will happen, I must be really careful from now on to not get spoiled. I already stumbled on a regrettable spoiler about epi 23 on Allkpop, so I'll probably just have to stay out of every site I might get spoiled in. I want to see the end with my own two eyes!
-
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Jan 8th, '07, 14:38
- Location: Saudi Arabia
lol, it was in Hana Yori Dango 2.was watching ep23 and the part where Ga Eul brings Yi Jung to the rooftop and show him his first love's message... this happened in another drama. I can't remember which one. Was it a jdrama or kdrama? Does anyone know? I keep on thinking about it, but I can't remember!
pretty much every thing in the Japanese Hana Yori Dango is in the Koren Hana Yori Dango.
makes you think did thay read the manga or just watched the Japanese Hana Yori Dango?, i mean the manga lasted for years one wed think their wed be a lot of stuff to work with.
-
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Apr 5th, '08, 05:57
- Location: Australia
-
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Feb 6th, '06, 16:47
auroragb wrote:Wrt ep 20, what is the korean horror film that they were watching together?
[/quote]WeDwellNForeverOffline wrote:Nevermind, I found the name of the horror movie. It's called Gosa aka The Story. It looks good too. Now I'm going to have to find a copy.
[Edit] Apparently it's also called Death Bell since that's the name I just found it under. Yay!!
Comparing to Meteor Garden
My friends INSISTED that I watch this drama, but my heart and mind was pretty settled on Meteor Garden being the best adaptation. After watching Boys Over Flowers, below are my feelings for it:
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: May 3rd, '07, 14:38
The series has ended...
This series could have been really good! Had their editing been better, had they chosen the scenes more wisely with better pacing, had the writing been more consistent (for the sake of Jandi’s character!), Kkotboda Namja could have been so good. Nevertheless, despite all its flaws, it still kept us addicted for all that made this series good:
* on the superficial level, cute, hot actors
* really good Goo Jun Pyo version by Lee Min Ho
* really good Madam Kang version
* divergence from the Meteor Garden and Hana Yori Dango plots, especially the So-eul relationship and the deeper role that Ji hoo played in Jandi’s life
* bits and pieces all throughout the series, including:
Honestly, Kkotboda Namja could have been known as How Jun Pyo Matured as a Man.
Regarding episode 25,
What a great experience this series was! I loved anticipating and watching 2 episodes week after week and reading what other fans had to say about them. Thank you to all fan subbers and recappers!
* on the superficial level, cute, hot actors
* really good Goo Jun Pyo version by Lee Min Ho
* really good Madam Kang version
* divergence from the Meteor Garden and Hana Yori Dango plots, especially the So-eul relationship and the deeper role that Ji hoo played in Jandi’s life
* bits and pieces all throughout the series, including:
Regarding episode 25,
What a great experience this series was! I loved anticipating and watching 2 episodes week after week and reading what other fans had to say about them. Thank you to all fan subbers and recappers!
-
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Apr 5th, '08, 05:57
- Location: Australia
I wanted MORE I wanted so much moreee
Oh well I still enjoyed it, but sad that it has now come to an end now what to watch ...
And what about the eye candy no more lol
Still love the drama, but I wanted more action between the main leads ..
I will miss my Lee Min Ho though, I hope he has another drama lined up
Oh well I still enjoyed it, but sad that it has now come to an end now what to watch ...
And what about the eye candy no more lol
Still love the drama, but I wanted more action between the main leads ..
I was thinkin the same way :akiko-chico wrote:I wanted MORE I wanted so much moreee
Oh well I still enjoyed it, but sad that it has now come to an end now what to watch ...
And what about the eye candy no more lol
Still love the drama, but I wanted more action between the main leads ..I will miss my Lee Min Ho though, I hope he has another drama lined up
I mean:
-
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Apr 5th, '08, 05:57
- Location: Australia
well...as far as i know that special is the one between eps. 16 and 17...i'm asking for the special which will be aired after the series ended...akiko-chico wrote:The special was released on here a while ago with subs! Just do a search in torrents and you will find it.shosef wrote:does somebody know when the special will come out?...the special that comes out after the series ended not the one between eps.16 and 17....i hope somebody will sub it...
-
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Feb 12th, '09, 10:31
i read at some blog that there is no special after series ended. Its only April Fool..shosef wrote:well...as far as i know that special is the one between eps. 16 and 17...i'm asking for the special which will be aired after the series ended...akiko-chico wrote:The special was released on here a while ago with subs! Just do a search in torrents and you will find it.shosef wrote:does somebody know when the special will come out?...the special that comes out after the series ended not the one between eps.16 and 17....i hope somebody will sub it...
i'm also really hope that there is special episode..
taniyama_mai wrote:i read at some blog that there is no special after series ended. Its only April Fool..shosef wrote:well...as far as i know that special is the one between eps. 16 and 17...i'm asking for the special which will be aired after the series ended...akiko-chico wrote:
The special was released on here a while ago with subs! Just do a search in torrents and you will find it.
i'm also really hope that there is special episode..
i really hope too..
but, i don`t think there will be one.
K-Dramas don't usually don't have specials i think
-
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mar 22nd, '09, 03:20
- Location: california
A special episode is gonna be aired on April, 28th according to the Allkpop article in which there's a video.
http://www.allkpop.com/index.php/full_s ... continues/
http://www.allkpop.com/index.php/full_s ... continues/
I agree with all of you. I was so disappointed they way they drag it and end it like that. The first season was amasing...the moment he walked out of the car and walked to Jan di and said to himself just stay there while the sun was in his back and all his love was making him going forward. and then the KISS came....and then it became another show. I would LOVE to see him in another drama with a rule similiar but to let him be the REAL male actor.Mai-Soon wrote:I was thinkin the same way :akiko-chico wrote:I wanted MORE I wanted so much moreee
Oh well I still enjoyed it, but sad that it has now come to an end now what to watch ...
And what about the eye candy no more lol
Still love the drama, but I wanted more action between the main leads ..I will miss my Lee Min Ho though, I hope he has another drama lined up
I mean:
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests