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[Discussion] Guilty Akuma to Keiyakushita Onna

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shioki
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Post by shioki » Dec 27th, '10, 17:46

ahireasu wrote:
What do you mean she managed to stay alive for so long after taking the same pill as the guy in the first episode?
Well, Meiko had time to wait for Mashima to run over, before saying her last words and loss consciousness. That seems pretty long compared to the guy in ep1 who just collapsed.

And, I think his suicide makes sense (since he's obviously very devastated then). Or maybe he just wanted a kiss, and was unaware of all the chemical reactions happening in her mouth :mrgreen: But I'm just not satisfied with how they presented it. Esp the owner's confession. I knew something was wrong with her, but that came out of nowhere. Scratch that out. On second thought, she's obviously feeling guilty towards Meiko judging by her extreme kindness and all that which resulted in that confession.
ahireasu wrote:
When she found Meiko almost dead i guess he lost the world under his feet and stoped thinking rational so this is how we have Mashima kissing her and by that killing himself as well.(i am not trying to justify the ending btw)
And this is the biggest plot hole for me, where in the hell did he found the amount of poison in her lips to kill him? + we see Meiko having her bag with her after he takes her to her mother, before that Meiko didn't have her bag with her........
Anyway, Mashima is dead. Just look at how he suddenly...hmm...went vertically down at the end. And don't forget, gas can kill too.

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Post by ahireasu » Dec 27th, '10, 18:24

shioki wrote:
ahireasu wrote:
What do you mean she managed to stay alive for so long after taking the same pill as the guy in the first episode?
Well, Meiko had time to wait for Mashima to run over, before saying her last words and loss consciousness. That seems pretty long compared to the guy in ep1 who just collapsed.

And, I think his suicide makes sense (since he's obviously very devastated then). Or maybe he just wanted a kiss, and was unaware of all the chemical reactions happening in her mouth :mrgreen: But I'm just not satisfied with how they presented it. Esp the owner's confession. I knew something was wrong with her, but that came out of nowhere. Scratch that out. On second thought, she's obviously feeling guilty towards Meiko judging by her extreme kindness and all that which resulted in that confession.
ahireasu wrote:
When she found Meiko almost dead i guess he lost the world under his feet and stoped thinking rational so this is how we have Mashima kissing her and by that killing himself as well.(i am not trying to justify the ending btw)
And this is the biggest plot hole for me, where in the hell did he found the amount of poison in her lips to kill him? + we see Meiko having her bag with her after he takes her to her mother, before that Meiko didn't have her bag with her........
Anyway, Mashima is dead. Just look at how he suddenly...hmm...went vertically down at the end. And don't forget, gas can kill too.
The time it takes for her to die is not long she took the poison few secs before Mashima reach there and i didn't say that Mashima didn't die all i said was that where in the hell was the poison to kill him, no matter what even if some was stuck in her lips it wouldn't be enough to kill him, in any case yes the writer- director do show him die.

Errr btw what do you mean by gas? :D

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MisS Lonliah
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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 27th, '10, 22:12

ahireasu wrote:
we see Meiko having her bag with her after he takes her to her mother, before that Meiko didn't have her bag with her........
That HUGE bag was so annoying during the whole drama! & I am amazed how it even managed to be in the very last scene! Even though Meiko was arrested before that! :mrgreen:

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Dec 28th, '10, 03:23

shioki wrote:
Too bad Mashima had to die too. That must be the first time he combed his hair throughout the whole series.[/spoiler]
Omg I laughed so hard when I read that! lol. I've been stuck in snow and away from my computer... so I'm sorry I'm all late in the discussion >_<.


@Issy the best episode was nine! So I'm sorry you couldn't watch it until that episode... Doujima was pretty great ^_^
Even if it wasn't the best ending for Mashima.... it's not something that I see out of character. Because she told him to return to his normal life... so... he can just get more drunk? Not like his life as all that great before he met her, so it wouldn't be better afterward + her dying. Though actually... the poison wouldn't be on her lips, rather it'll be more on her tongue right? So he'll have to french the crap outta her just to get poisoned I guess lol. But at the same time, he didn't look too slumped over at the end... so it could be questionable if he died or not (but I myself am just gonna assume he did) I think this series was like Shiroi Haru. It started off so strong, and so nice.... but the final episode had to ruin it. It was the lousiest thing ever! So I see Guilty similar to that. But I still think the story and characters were nice (except Mari... oh! Did you guys know Michiko is getting marry!? just read about it lol) but yup....

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Dec 28th, '10, 03:35

«minah» wrote:oh! Did you guys know Michiko is getting marry!? just read about it lol) but yup....[/spoiler]
Yeah.. to a business man who is 10 years older than her. ^^

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Post by blackskies » Dec 28th, '10, 08:11

«minah» wrote:
I think this series was like Shiroi Haru. It started off so strong, and so nice.... but the final episode had to ruin it. It was the lousiest thing ever! So I see Guilty similar to that. But I still think the story and characters were nice (except Mari... oh! Did you guys know Michiko is getting marry!? just read about it lol) but yup....
Totally agree. Before the last episode, I thought "just, please, DON"T end up like Shiroi Haru... please." Shiroi Haru was so great until the last 10 minutes, and could've had a really positive message if they didn't end it like that.

I wonder how Guilty's message comes off with the ending. Mashima didn't have to die for it to get across, after all.

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«minah»
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Post by «minah» » Dec 28th, '10, 11:44

blackskies wrote:
«minah» wrote:
I think this series was like Shiroi Haru. It started off so strong, and so nice.... but the final episode had to ruin it. It was the lousiest thing ever! So I see Guilty similar to that. But I still think the story and characters were nice (except Mari... oh! Did you guys know Michiko is getting marry!? just read about it lol) but yup....
Totally agree. Before the last episode, I thought "just, please, DON"T end up like Shiroi Haru... please." Shiroi Haru was so great until the last 10 minutes, and could've had a really positive message if they didn't end it like that.

I wonder how Guilty's message comes off with the ending. Mashima didn't have to die for it to get across, after all.
I honestly think his death wasn't that important.... because I don't think it changes the theme too much... maybe just "...you hurt the loved ones you leave behind more than you hurt yourself" but that's about it. But I think this ended better than Shiroi Haru. At least his death wasn't like, in the middle of the episode outta nowhere and hte show ended very early. And it can still be open if he really died... Abe died (and it was so fast, and rushed that it got me mad. "Yay I'm happy still being near my daughter though no one knows the truth behind it all... Oh no! The guy's son who I didn't know existed or have seen until now kills me!!" But yeah.... I don't think the message would have been any different if he lived or died, but it wasn't necessary for him to die

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Post by lyra17 » Dec 28th, '10, 15:06

I feel like I wasted space on my hard drive with that ending and after it started so strong. I got the feeling Meiko wasn't going to make it to the end, but when mashima slumped too I think I literally said, omg are you kidding me? I liked too how she said she wanted him to return to normal.....like you killing yourself after he tells you he loves you....uh....not so much, lol.

Man, I'm 1 for 3 with dramas this season.....this ending, second virgin having both the least likable title and characters ever....at least nagareboshi ended well.

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Post by caramelchampagne » Dec 28th, '10, 15:26

since both died no one will be hurt to be left alone so they :whistling: died happliy ever after togther forever loool i will see it from that angle and about ppl who said the poison was not enough to kill him there was like some poison was left inside the key chain there was lil whiet poison left

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Dec 28th, '10, 16:18

shioki wrote:The drama went well, other than a few plotholes, but the ending was
disappointing. I was waiting for Meiko to be killed the whole time, and Mashima to continue as a detective, but no, they didn't. Meiko and Mashima HAD to pull off a Remeo and Juliet play, and turn that place into a haunted spot. The fight scene btw Meiko and Jun too. Meiko magically avoided the bullets, and also managed to stay alive for so long after taking the same pill the guy in ep1 took.

Too bad Mashima had to die too. That must be the first time he combed his hair throughout the whole series.
TOTALLY AGREE
I laughed a lot at the combed hair comment :lol , me too noticed that his un-ruly hair had become a bit tidier during the finale :D
Too bad he had to die :P
I don't agree with you though about the pill part,
like ahireasu-san said, it couldn't have been a pill, considering the shape of the key chain which looked more like a vile that could have contained liquid poison.
ahireasu wrote: And this is the biggest plot hole for me, where in the hell did he found the amount of poison in her lips to kill him? + we see Meiko having her bag with her after he takes her to her mother, before that Meiko didn't have her bag with her.......
I agree with everyone who doubted that kiss would kill him, he'd definitely need more than just some traces of poison to die, especially so quickly :scratch:
I didn't concentrate much on the bag part, but i remember he was carrying her bag when they were going out of the old school, and I just checked she was carrying it while she was speaking with her mother

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Post by snow_of_dawn » Dec 28th, '10, 16:27

«minah» wrote:
I honestly think his death wasn't that important.... because I don't think it changes the theme too much... maybe just "...you hurt the loved ones you leave behind more than you hurt yourself" but that's about it. But I think this ended better than Shiroi Haru. At least his death wasn't like, in the middle of the episode outta nowhere and hte show ended very early. And it can still be open if he really died... Abe died (and it was so fast, and rushed that it got me mad. "Yay I'm happy still being near my daughter though no one knows the truth behind it all... Oh no! The guy's son who I didn't know existed or have seen until now kills me!!" But yeah.... I don't think the message would have been any different if he lived or died, but it wasn't necessary for him to die
I personally prefer shiroi haru more, at least it had a better moral to give, the characters and the plot were more reasonable, besides a very emotional story. Though I do agree they rushed things in the last episode :-(

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Post by gnryushi » Dec 29th, '10, 05:14

Of all the dramatic deaths in the whole series Mashima would have to have been the least. But I don't understand Japanese culture much so I don't believe he died. That slumping of his at the end didn't mean much to me and for him to die of poison after kissing Meiko would mean she took a hell of a lot of that poison. I doubt it along with his uneventful ending. I don't buy it.
[/code]

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Post by Romance » Jan 5th, '11, 10:01

After all a decent, average drama. 6.5/10 maybe.

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Post by badcompany » Jan 22nd, '11, 05:35

I think I'm in love with Kichise Michiko, she's gorgeous.

Thought the series was quite average, would have prefered if it was darker.

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Post by Muyuechihiro » Jan 28th, '11, 05:36

«minah» wrote:
blackskies wrote:
«minah» wrote:
I think this series was like Shiroi Haru. It started off so strong, and so nice.... but the final episode had to ruin it. It was the lousiest thing ever! So I see Guilty similar to that. But I still think the story and characters were nice (except Mari... oh! Did you guys know Michiko is getting marry!? just read about it lol) but yup....
Totally agree. Before the last episode, I thought "just, please, DON"T end up like Shiroi Haru... please." Shiroi Haru was so great until the last 10 minutes, and could've had a really positive message if they didn't end it like that.

I wonder how Guilty's message comes off with the ending. Mashima didn't have to die for it to get across, after all.
I honestly think his death wasn't that important.... because I don't think it changes the theme too much... maybe just "...you hurt the loved ones you leave behind more than you hurt yourself" but that's about it. But I think this ended better than Shiroi Haru. At least his death wasn't like, in the middle of the episode outta nowhere and hte show ended very early. And it can still be open if he really died... Abe died (and it was so fast, and rushed that it got me mad. "Yay I'm happy still being near my daughter though no one knows the truth behind it all... Oh no! The guy's son who I didn't know existed or have seen until now kills me!!" But yeah.... I don't think the message would have been any different if he lived or died, but it wasn't necessary for him to die
But they are the only two dramas that made me cry and cry...
Japanese prefers tragedy.Although they are sad of the heros' death as we are,they also think it's beautiful.Just like SAKURA falling from the tree.
Of course the end of the two dramas went suddenly more or less.But the dramas are both moving.I like them.
[/quote][/quote]

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Post by thetrystero » Feb 5th, '11, 05:37

I too, did not like the ending at all.
I thought it was great up until the part where she drowned Jun Misawa.

After having been told that Jun had used her to eliminate everyone else he had manipulated, I thought it would've been better to have had Mashima discover Jun just before the hole filled up, and have him suffer a live in prison, or public humiliation followed by a death sentence. Then have Nogami rehabilitated and have Mashima and Nogami live happily ever after, but alas, I guess this ending appeals more to Japanese culture.

Of course, the ideal catharsis would've been for no one to have died at her hands but instead justly indicted by a combination of Mashima and Nogami's cunning Sherlock skills. But then we would not have had a drama on our hands! To watch, or not to watch? Maybe they should start coming up with interactive dramas where the viewer can choose his/her own ending!!

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Post by jerin » Feb 5th, '11, 05:49

ann-the dog, i don't think it is a particular breed. it can be a mix terrier. it has the body conformation and fur of CAIRN TERRIER but the colour and ears of Jack Russell terrier. sorry. got interested in the discussion bout the dog cuz i used to be in pet grooming industry. anyway, it was a show......how should it put it......a lot of the time i feel like putting my hand into the show and shake the characters. at the edge of the seat......he,he.

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Post by Gir » Feb 5th, '11, 14:33

thetrystero wrote:I too, did not like the ending at all.
I thought it was great up until the part where she drowned Jun Misawa.

After having been told that Jun had used her to eliminate everyone else he had manipulated, I thought it would've been better to have had Mashima discover Jun just before the hole filled up, and have him suffer a live in prison, or public humiliation followed by a death sentence. Then have Nogami rehabilitated and have Mashima and Nogami live happily ever after, but alas, I guess this ending appeals more to Japanese culture.

Of course, the ideal catharsis would've been for no one to have died at her hands but instead justly indicted by a combination of Mashima and Nogami's cunning Sherlock skills. But then we would not have had a drama on our hands! To watch, or not to watch? Maybe they should start coming up with interactive dramas where the viewer can choose his/her own ending!!
I was more expecting/thinking
That she was just going to close the grate on Jun and walk away. Leaving him to slowly die trapped in his "prison" at the abandoned school. But if he yelled loud enough someone passing by probably would of heard him. But I just kind of thought that would be somewhat of a fitting end for him.

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Post by [ XD ] » Feb 9th, '11, 15:09

Lol XD
Did Mashima really died? I've watched until they start to remember the previous episodes -> skip -> close my MPCstar xD
If that's true I'm so disappointed =/ what poison in her lips gonna kill him?! I thought she is the only one died xl

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Post by MisS Lonliah » Feb 9th, '11, 18:59

[ XD ] wrote:Lol XD
Did Mashima really died? I've watched until they start to remember the previous episodes -> skip -> close my MPCstar xD
If that's true I'm so disappointed =/ what poison in her lips gonna kill him?! I thought she is the only one died xl
Yes! :pale:

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Post by [ XD ] » Feb 10th, '11, 13:05

MisS Lonliah wrote:
[ XD ] wrote:Lol XD
Did Mashima really died? I've watched until they start to remember the previous episodes -> skip -> close my MPCstar xD
If that's true I'm so disappointed =/ what poison in her lips gonna kill him?! I thought she is the only one died xl
Yes! :pale:
So Stupid!! I can understand why Meiko died, but Takoru too :blink
I was fine with Meiko's death, but now I hates the Drama TT_TT

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Post by ssih » Feb 10th, '11, 15:35

MisS Lonliah wrote:
[ XD ] wrote:Lol XD
Did Mashima really died? I've watched until they start to remember the previous episodes -> skip -> close my MPCstar xD
If that's true I'm so disappointed =/ what poison in her lips gonna kill him?! I thought she is the only one died xl
Yes! :pale:
Wait - what??
When did Mashima die?

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Post by [ XD ] » Feb 12th, '11, 09:35

ssih wrote:
MisS Lonliah wrote:
[ XD ] wrote:Lol XD
Did Mashima really died? I've watched until they start to remember the previous episodes -> skip -> close my MPCstar xD
If that's true I'm so disappointed =/ what poison in her lips gonna kill him?! I thought she is the only one died xl
Yes! :pale:
Wait - what??
When did Mashima die?
When he kissed Meiko after she died. Director-san says that
there are some of the poison left at her lips =/

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Post by ssih » Feb 12th, '11, 10:28

[ XD ] wrote:
When he kissed Meiko after she died. Director-san says that
there are some of the poison left at her lips =/
Was this in some special or something? I didn't see anything like that in the final episode.

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Post by BigHeadDog » Feb 12th, '11, 15:58

i HATE the ending...really spoilt the beauty of this drama.

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Post by [ XD ] » Feb 12th, '11, 16:17

ssih wrote:
[ XD ] wrote:
When he kissed Meiko after she died. Director-san says that
there are some of the poison left at her lips =/
Was this in some special or something? I didn't see anything like that in the final episode.
I haven't too! it was in the final episode when Mashima kissed Meiko he died because of the poison! everyone says that!
It was a happy ending for me since I've skipped it when they start remembering old scenes and didn't notice anything weird :(
it would be fine if Meiko the only one who died =/

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Post by ssih » Feb 12th, '11, 17:09

I just watched the ending again, and that definitely seems like an "interpretation" of the scene. I don't see anything concrete that indicates he died. The scene closes with them motionlessly kissing. Perhaps he died. Perhaps he fell asleep. Perhaps EMTs showed up a moment later, gave her heart a shot of adrenaline and saved her life, only to have her tried, convicted and executed for murder.

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Post by [ XD ] » Feb 13th, '11, 11:37

ssih wrote:
I just watched the ending again, and that definitely seems like an "interpretation" of the scene. I don't see anything concrete that indicates he died. The scene closes with them motionlessly kissing. Perhaps he died. Perhaps he fell asleep. Perhaps EMTs showed up a moment later, gave her heart a shot of adrenaline and saved her life, only to have her tried, convicted and executed for murder.
Most JDramas's ending are weird and Guilty's the WEIRDEST one :blink

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Post by «minah» » Feb 15th, '11, 19:54

[ XD ] wrote:
ssih wrote:
I just watched the ending again, and that definitely seems like an "interpretation" of the scene. I don't see anything concrete that indicates he died. The scene closes with them motionlessly kissing. Perhaps he died. Perhaps he fell asleep. Perhaps EMTs showed up a moment later, gave her heart a shot of adrenaline and saved her life, only to have her tried, convicted and executed for murder.
Most JDramas's ending are weird and Guilty's the WEIRDEST one :blink
Nope Akami no so-somehting is..... that just asked more questions than answering them

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Post by Sajen16 » Feb 23rd, '11, 07:36

I like the ending it shows the futility and stupidity of revenge perfectly

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Post by kokutetsu » Feb 23rd, '11, 19:37

Sajen16 wrote:I like the ending it shows the futility and stupidity of revenge perfectly
The more I think about this, the more I agree with you. This is a mature interpretation of the ending, I wish I'd thought of it :D

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Post by thesidulus » May 31st, '11, 20:52

antspace wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised that this ep was almost without plotholes or overacting. Tamaki Hiroshi san should get a price as most tormented person in J-Dorama though :P
Thanks for dropping Mashima's real name here! (Was wondering, but too lazy to look up earlier...) I kept thinking he looked familiar! He seems sooo different in this drama than the other stuff I've seen him in. Would not have thought he played the main in Shikaotoko.

Yea, talk about a tortured character. The decisions he had to make throughout. OMG. Thanks to the uploaders & subbers!!

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Post by prestoli » Jun 16th, '11, 04:32

The one thing that really bothered me was Tamaki Hiroshi's HAIR.... it was all over the place...during all the intense scenes, I just couldn't stop looking at his hair.
:lol I totally agree!

I didn't love the ending but overall I enjoyed this drama.

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