[Discussion] JIN (Osawa Takao, Ayase Haruka, Uchino Masaaki)
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I guess you're talking about this guy.bloodbath-angel wrote:Can somebody please tell me the real name of Ryoma's bodyguard? I know i have seen him before in some dramas, but i can't remember which one. Thanks!
http://jdorama.com/artiste.1456.htm
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Yes, That's him. Thanks You so much!Hideaki_Ito wrote: I guess you're talking about this guy.
http://jdorama.com/artiste.1456.htm
I was quite disappointed with ep9. It was draggy, and I felt like it was wasting my time watching at all, except for the last probably 10 mins. After a great emotional ep8, this was just...
I'll not rant here. Because I just did in my blog. I hope next week will be better since it's the final episode (even though separated into two parts). I want a satisfying closure especially regarding Jin and Saki. They can at least give us that.
I'll not rant here. Because I just did in my blog. I hope next week will be better since it's the final episode (even though separated into two parts). I want a satisfying closure especially regarding Jin and Saki. They can at least give us that.
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I on the other hand was most interested in the canon pairing Jin and Saki (or Osawa and Ayase rather. Heck I was hoping to see some rabu in promotion clips but they acted cold outwardly. It's hard to tell if they're dating and hiding or they broke up before season 2 started. I'm pretty damn sure they were dating last year. Their faces were filled with loving feelings.)
Now that I see no explanation in season 2 as of yet, I'm curious to see how the manga explained the fetus relationship. It showed Jin's response to children from time to time (but I don't know JP so I couldn't tell what it all meant.)
Now that I see no explanation in season 2 as of yet, I'm curious to see how the manga explained the fetus relationship. It showed Jin's response to children from time to time (but I don't know JP so I couldn't tell what it all meant.)
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I absolutely love JIN! It's brilliantly written with a list of very strong and great actors! A highly recommended drama!
I just finished watching season 2, and I have to say, it's even more superior than season 1!
Well, their chemistry on-screen in season 2 was even better! And if you like their canon, then you will love the last episode! Although I have only seen the raw for ep 11 so far, but I can tell there was a lot of love between Jin and Saki in season 2, and it was further more proved in the last episode
By the way, do you have any videos of the pair promoting season 2? I would love to see them!
I just finished watching season 2, and I have to say, it's even more superior than season 1!
Really? I didn't know Ayase Haruka and Osawa dated last year! Is that true or just a rumor? Because even if co-stars have great chemistry together, it doesn't mean they're dating/dated.Hideaki_Ito wrote:I on the other hand was most interested in the canon pairing Jin and Saki (or Osawa and Ayase rather. Heck I was hoping to see some rabu in promotion clips but they acted cold outwardly. It's hard to tell if they're dating and hiding or they broke up before season 2 started. I'm pretty damn sure they were dating last year. Their faces were filled with loving feelings.)
Now that I see no explanation in season 2 as of yet, I'm curious to see how the manga explained the fetus relationship. It showed Jin's response to children from time to time (but I don't know JP so I couldn't tell what it all meant.)
Well, their chemistry on-screen in season 2 was even better! And if you like their canon, then you will love the last episode! Although I have only seen the raw for ep 11 so far, but I can tell there was a lot of love between Jin and Saki in season 2, and it was further more proved in the last episode
By the way, do you have any videos of the pair promoting season 2? I would love to see them!
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I think we must have been watching two different dramas. Season 1 was perfection and IMO season 2 should never have been made. If I wanted to watch Ryoma, I would've been watching Ryoma Den and not JIN.asuko1linda wrote:I absolutely love JIN! It's brilliantly written with a list of very strong and great actors! A highly recommended drama!
I just finished watching season 2, and I have to say, it's even more superior than season 1!
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are you serious? Virtually everyone I have come across who have seen season 2 absolutely loved it and praised it for being better than season 1. And season 2 also had higher ratings than season 1.itsArtemis wrote: I think we must have been watching two different dramas. Season 1 was perfection and IMO season 2 should never have been made. If I wanted to watch Ryoma, I would've been watching Ryoma Den and not JIN.
I guess you are one of the very few people who didn't like it.
Ok so a lot did focused on Ryoma in season 2, but a lot of the series also centered around Jin and Saki too.
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I'm one of the few who didn't like it as well. For me I thought season 1 was not so bad. I mean they built up this false sense of suspense so I didn't skim too much. I skimmed maybe like 40% whereas I skimmed about 70% in season 2. Part 1 isn't as crucial as part 2 because the ending always give a deeper impression. If they screw it up. Oh well.asuko1linda wrote:are you serious? Virtually everyone I have come across who have seen season 2 absolutely loved it and praised it for being better than season 1. And season 2 also had higher ratings than season 1.itsArtemis wrote: I think we must have been watching two different dramas. Season 1 was perfection and IMO season 2 should never have been made. If I wanted to watch Ryoma, I would've been watching Ryoma Den and not JIN.
I guess you are one of the very few people who didn't like it.
Ok so a lot did focused on Ryoma in season 2, but a lot of the series also centered around Jin and Saki too.
Well if you compare Jin and Saki's development to something like the "romance" (if you can call it that) in Mr. Brain or Deerman then yeah it's "a lot" of development. Audiences were so used to disconnected development so now with this less than disconnected development, they were so impressed.
This writer was taking the story all over the places.
But anyways, my true feelings for this is
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I totally agree with you Ito, and even more so as I have been reading the manga (up to volume 14, still waiting for the rest to be published in french). What I dislike the most in the drama is that they try to turn Saki into a modern woman.
I am very disappointed. Jin 1 made me buy the manga. Fortunately I read it before Jin 2, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.
Should I even watch this drama??
I have been waiting for the whole series to finish before starting. I like Jin 1 but it seems as though it wanders away from the strangeness into a very artificial attempt at bonding Jin and Ryoma. Quite apart from the fact that this is a fiction, we know that no-one like Jin was ever in the Ryoma story at all. Mixing it up this way is not a good story line. Writer got on the wrong track I would think.
I have been waiting for the whole series to finish before starting. I like Jin 1 but it seems as though it wanders away from the strangeness into a very artificial attempt at bonding Jin and Ryoma. Quite apart from the fact that this is a fiction, we know that no-one like Jin was ever in the Ryoma story at all. Mixing it up this way is not a good story line. Writer got on the wrong track I would think.
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Gosh what a totally different place this is!
It's like the people here don't like season 2, and yet everywhere else I go, almost everyone is praising season 2 and saying it's better than season 1. I guess most of the people who don't like season 2 are all mainly hiding here in d-addicts. I'm amazed that you people even bothered to finish the season.
If you don't like something, then why bother finishing it? Curiosity perhaps?
I never read the manga, so I don't know how the original story is or how the characters were originally suppose to be like. But being oblivious about the manga makes me much less strict about season 2 I guess. Because I don't have as high expectations as those who have read the manga. But I doubt many people have read the manga, so maybe that's one of the reasons why so many people loved season 2 and felt it's better than season 1.
Overall, it depends on individual opinions and preferences, and I personally loved season 2, I thoroughly enjoyed it more than I did with season 1, and I love the character development of Saki. Her passion for saving lives and becoming the best female doctor, how she hopes to aim high makes her an inspiration. People have high goals, they aim high.
Some people don't just aim for a mediocre level job for the rest of their life.
And Saki obviously is one of those people who wants to aim high in their lives, what's wrong with that? Sure, no female in her time has ever had the confidence to aim at such a high ranked job, nor did some of them wanted to. Women back in those times were restricted and lower ranked in society back in. But that's what makes Saki stand out and inspirational for other women back in those times. Because she's bold and has high goals and dreams.
Just because her character was less bold and merely a nurse in the manga doesn't mean that they have to stick to the manga. And although I have not read the manga, but based on what I have read about her character in the manga, frankly, I MUCH prefer her character in the drama. I prefer women who are bold and have high goals and dreams.
About Jin and Saki's relationship:
And about the Miki in the present:
It's like the people here don't like season 2, and yet everywhere else I go, almost everyone is praising season 2 and saying it's better than season 1. I guess most of the people who don't like season 2 are all mainly hiding here in d-addicts. I'm amazed that you people even bothered to finish the season.
If you don't like something, then why bother finishing it? Curiosity perhaps?
I never read the manga, so I don't know how the original story is or how the characters were originally suppose to be like. But being oblivious about the manga makes me much less strict about season 2 I guess. Because I don't have as high expectations as those who have read the manga. But I doubt many people have read the manga, so maybe that's one of the reasons why so many people loved season 2 and felt it's better than season 1.
Overall, it depends on individual opinions and preferences, and I personally loved season 2, I thoroughly enjoyed it more than I did with season 1, and I love the character development of Saki. Her passion for saving lives and becoming the best female doctor, how she hopes to aim high makes her an inspiration. People have high goals, they aim high.
Some people don't just aim for a mediocre level job for the rest of their life.
And Saki obviously is one of those people who wants to aim high in their lives, what's wrong with that? Sure, no female in her time has ever had the confidence to aim at such a high ranked job, nor did some of them wanted to. Women back in those times were restricted and lower ranked in society back in. But that's what makes Saki stand out and inspirational for other women back in those times. Because she's bold and has high goals and dreams.
Just because her character was less bold and merely a nurse in the manga doesn't mean that they have to stick to the manga. And although I have not read the manga, but based on what I have read about her character in the manga, frankly, I MUCH prefer her character in the drama. I prefer women who are bold and have high goals and dreams.
About Jin and Saki's relationship:
I wonder if they'll release a new OST? It didn't seem like there were that many new tracks to reckon a new one. But I really liked that new track used when Jin was leaving M.'s house near the end.
Edit:
Oops, nevermind! The final CD was already released a month ago. So fast! They even have a piano solo CD.
Edit:
Oops, nevermind! The final CD was already released a month ago. So fast! They even have a piano solo CD.
Last edited by Sakuya on Jun 28th, '11, 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
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I've been a silent reader of this thread and thought I'd contribute some love for Jin 2. I don't think Jin 2 surpassed Jin 1, but I found them equally entertaining in their own way. I'm kind of glad that Jin 2 didn't completely focus all the time on Jin using his modern medicine knowledge to perform "miracles" in the Edo era. I think I would have gotten bored with this type of storyline if it continued throughout the entire Jin 2. I actually liked that they included the Ryoma and Nokaze story arcs because I felt it made the story well-rounded and showed how the other main characters grew from the first series.
A few things now that Jin 2 is over (spoilers):
For me this drama was an entertaining ride. I'm really going to miss this cast. I actually used to like Oosawa Takao when he did "Hoshi no Kinka" and Uchino Masaaki in "Miss Cinderella" back in the late 90's, but then kinda lost interest in them. I think they really made a drama comeback with their roles in Jin. I haven't read the manga and am not sure how much better the original is. However, usually when a manga gets transformed into a live action drama, I don't mind if the story is changed. For me, if it follows the manga word for word, then it becomes too predictable and I start losing interest. I don't mind changes and surprises as it helps keep me interested.
A few things now that Jin 2 is over (spoilers):
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Jin drama is adapted very loosely. Of course it's impossible to follow the whole story because the manga has a lot of stuff going on. The sad thing is the even the main events with the main characters were changed to the point where it's unrecognizable. If the writer thinks she can do a better job why bother adapt? Just might as well write a new story and name it "Fujiwara" or something. I think it would be better if it's taken up a new identity because it's an entirely different animal. However I do give it credit that it introduces the broader public to Jin manga. The manga writer probably had to exchange the slaughter for the promotion.
Have yet to watch this drama. However, if Jin returns to his modern life does he retain the memory of being in old Edo and does he remember Saki??? AND..what is to stop him popping back to the past whether to the same old Edo or maybe he now can pick and choose??? Hmmmmmm!! 'very interesting.' A real Laugh In situation....
Remember that TV show?
Remember that TV show?
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A almost total revamp of the story does not necessarily make an adaption "horrid". Even if it's adapted from a manga but sways too far from the original, can still have its own good qualities.
Unless you are someone who is super loyal to the manga and prefer they copy about 99% from the original. Then often people like those fail to see these good qualities that an adaption can possess.
Unless you are someone who is super loyal to the manga and prefer they copy about 99% from the original. Then often people like those fail to see these good qualities that an adaption can possess.
Yes, Jin does retain his memories of being in old Edo period. Time traveling does not alter his memories whatsoever. It simply just takes him to a different time period. And he has no control over it. It seems the source of the time travel was the cancer tumor that Jin removed from the patient in season 1 (whose true identity I won't reveal since you haven't seen it). It seems once the malignant tumor is lost, time travel is no longer possible.However, if Jin returns to his modern life does he retain the memory of being in old Edo and does he remember Saki??? AND..what is to stop him popping back to the past whether to the same old Edo or maybe he now can pick and choose??? Hmmmmmm!! 'very interesting.' A real Laugh In situation....
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Another silent reader here showing love for JIN 2 I found it entertaining and I was constantly wanting to know what happens next.
JIN 1 I loved the story of Jin using his knowledge to help those in need. Season 2 definantly followed a more historical storyline showing the Japan moving towards a new era and the turmoil (focusing on Ryoma) and also Jin teaching his methods to others. Two different styles but I think it worked well together. I did however find that sometimes some plots did feel a bit rushed at times which made it hard to keep up with some of the more detailed historical parts, but I guess Im not their target audience either (in that I havent got enough knowldege of Japanese history)
The ending I was really happy with, it closed the series well. I loved the cast! Osawa and Ayase were great and I liked how they portrayed their characters. I havent read the manga, so I dont know how closely they resembled the mangas portrayal, but for the drama it was well done.
This was the first drama series that I have been too impatient to wait for subs and watched the raw first with my limited Japanese, I guess for me that really shows how much I enjoyed the series.
JIN 1 I loved the story of Jin using his knowledge to help those in need. Season 2 definantly followed a more historical storyline showing the Japan moving towards a new era and the turmoil (focusing on Ryoma) and also Jin teaching his methods to others. Two different styles but I think it worked well together. I did however find that sometimes some plots did feel a bit rushed at times which made it hard to keep up with some of the more detailed historical parts, but I guess Im not their target audience either (in that I havent got enough knowldege of Japanese history)
The ending I was really happy with, it closed the series well. I loved the cast! Osawa and Ayase were great and I liked how they portrayed their characters. I havent read the manga, so I dont know how closely they resembled the mangas portrayal, but for the drama it was well done.
This was the first drama series that I have been too impatient to wait for subs and watched the raw first with my limited Japanese, I guess for me that really shows how much I enjoyed the series.
I think it was expected that he would die. Even Jin knew that, he still wanted to try and change history. Similarly to season 1, if someone was meant to die, Jin wouldn't be able to stop it. Like the mother he saved, but she was killed by a random samurai. Jin can only do so much.Toritorisan wrote:I
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That was totally unexpected ending but a nice bitter-sweet one. Judging from a few comments here, I guess it wasn't what pictured in the manga, right? . Anyhow, the ending was the best episode from this season. I still prefer last season best. They were many high moments in their episodes compared to this season.
Is there going to be a special episode or a feature film after this? A spin-off for example.A new storyline after Jin-sensei comes back to Tokyo.
Is there going to be a special episode or a feature film after this? A spin-off for example.A new storyline after Jin-sensei comes back to Tokyo.
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It is so interesting to see how we are all affected by this series. I really loved the Jin 1 simply for the idea of time travel. Also the fact that we were learning what could possibly happen to a modern doctor thrust back into old Edo. The way he was dealing with a different culture and his gaffes in small scenes was really brought home to me. The fact that we could believe that he could manage to use his modern knowledge to fashion implements, and even approach penicillin and succeed in that time, was seemingly possible.
This time, although I have yet to watch Season II I am not as comfortable with the emphasis on the personal histories of real people who lived back then. Trying to save Ryoma was a big aggravation for me to accept. I would have preferred Jin being apart from that situation and hearing about it from general news of that time. The story with Saki could have been more important and more time spent with that as a very emotional situation. Of course this is my take on all the postings about these events. Must say I have enjoyed the opinions of everyone greatly.
This time, although I have yet to watch Season II I am not as comfortable with the emphasis on the personal histories of real people who lived back then. Trying to save Ryoma was a big aggravation for me to accept. I would have preferred Jin being apart from that situation and hearing about it from general news of that time. The story with Saki could have been more important and more time spent with that as a very emotional situation. Of course this is my take on all the postings about these events. Must say I have enjoyed the opinions of everyone greatly.
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Maybe potential spoiler - using tags just in case...seirin wrote:I think it was expected that he would die. Even Jin knew that, he still wanted to try and change history. Similarly to season 1, if someone was meant to die, Jin wouldn't be able to stop it. Like the mother he saved, but she was killed by a random samurai. Jin can only do so much.Toritorisan wrote:I
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damn, what a satisfying final episode.
Jin's health gradually declining and losing his abilities to do medicine was pretty emotional. They should have focused on that for the last 3 episodes instead of the Ryoma thing which I didn't care for.
I'm not a manga read of JIN, so I don't have to be one of those 'How dare they temper with the source material!!" people.
Pretty happy bittersweet ending, and the corrective powers of history is scary...
My favorite minor character was probably Saburi. He was always a nice presence whenever he was on-screen.
Jin's health gradually declining and losing his abilities to do medicine was pretty emotional. They should have focused on that for the last 3 episodes instead of the Ryoma thing which I didn't care for.
I'm not a manga read of JIN, so I don't have to be one of those 'How dare they temper with the source material!!" people.
Pretty happy bittersweet ending, and the corrective powers of history is scary...
My favorite minor character was probably Saburi. He was always a nice presence whenever he was on-screen.
The embryo tumour is the catalyst for the time travel. They had to make it connect somehow for him to slip through time. Some peeps have time machines, Jin has a tumour and the tumour seems to be his best buddyyanie wrote:Just finished the finale ep. Two questions:
I'm not sure what you mean vanishing twin. From the way they seem to describe it. They use "parallel universe". It's a continuous cycle of jumping from one parallel to another so the two same Jins don't really meet up or briefly only?
Also with Miki teaching a class. It's one of the possibilities of the future. It's always changing because of decisions made in the past. Miki's future changed when Nokaze married a foreigner. Similarly when Jin does certain things, the photo kept changing until it disappeared. When the photo disappeared, Jin's relationship with Miki also changed. What doesn't seem to change or doesn't seem to change is Miki's fate will be the same.
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Two valid questions! That's why I also wonder if there should be an SP or feature film to wrap things up after Jin-sensei came back to Tokyo.I felt bad thoguh for him and all his version in the parallel universe if this is his fate. They all have to went through this cycle/loop in their life.yanie wrote:Just finished the finale ep. Two questions:
Another question about Tachibana Miki, I don't think she's a daughter of Anju. Most probably she's a 3rd or 4th generation after Saki. Timeline-wise. It's almost 150 years after Anju was born.
You should watch season 2. I agree with others that it was kind of slow near the middle with all the war stuff and focus on Ryoma. But some other episodes were pretty enlightening.Peggy wrote:It is so interesting to see how we are all affected by this series. I really loved the Jin 1 simply for the idea of time travel. Also the fact that we were learning what could possibly happen to a modern doctor thrust back into old Edo. The way he was dealing with a different culture and his gaffes in small scenes was really brought home to me. The fact that we could believe that he could manage to use his modern knowledge to fashion implements, and even approach penicillin and succeed in that time, was seemingly possible.
This time, although I have yet to watch Season II I am not as comfortable with the emphasis on the personal histories of real people who lived back then. Trying to save Ryoma was a big aggravation for me to accept. I would have preferred Jin being apart from that situation and hearing about it from general news of that time. The story with Saki could have been more important and more time spent with that as a very emotional situation. Of course this is my take on all the postings about these events. Must say I have enjoyed the opinions of everyone greatly.
Yamamoto Koji (lol, dunno his character's name) explained why the tumour looked like an embryo, as "vanishing twin". Here's some explanation of the syndrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twinseirin wrote:I'm not sure what you mean vanishing twin. From the way they seem to describe it. They use "parallel universe". It's a continuous cycle of jumping from one parallel to another so the two same Jins don't really meet up or briefly only?
That's why I asked what's the point of explaining it as "vanishing twin" and how is it related to the time-travel. I pretty much get the gist how the tumour is the catalyst of the time-travel, but I just don't get the theory.
I was thinking this way in the beginning. But then I remember what Jin said before Yamamoto Koji left the classroom. "So did the doctor finally change the history? He went to the B parallel world, right? That means, the B world history might be different than the A world's history he knew. Which means, I didn't change anything at all, in the end."seirin wrote:Also with Miki teaching a class. It's one of the possibilities of the future. It's always changing because of decisions made in the past.
This means, regardless how the manga went, the drama's writer concludes that even though Jin went to the past, but it is a different past than his world's past, the differences happened in the Edo period where Jin was, was not because Jin changed it, but simply because it is a B world. Which means, even since Season 1, the Edo period where Jin exist, have Miki as Tachibana Miki in the future. There's suppose to be no changes at all.
So I'm assuming "Miki teaching class" vision in the ending of S1 was just a plothole
But how I wish the TBS production guys would be willing to develop that as something more and make it a sequel. Hehe, never mind... I'm just a desperate JINxMIKI fan
er...I don't know how that relates. Is he trying to grasp at straws? It didn't really vanish. They operated on Jin and removed the tumour. How the tumour disappeared is when the other Jin fell through the time slip carrying it with it. When he time slipped, somehow the tumour disappeared and end up in his head. Don't ask me how... So it exists in his head until he time slips back into the future and operates on himself to remove it. It's a continuous cycle happening at parallel universe.yanie wrote: Yamamoto Koji (lol, dunno his character's name) explained why the tumour looked like an embryo, as "vanishing twin". Here's some explanation of the syndrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin
That's why I asked what's the point of explaining it as "vanishing twin" and how is it related to the time-travel. I pretty much get the gist how the tumour is the catalyst of the time-travel, but I just don't get the theory.
Hmm...seems complicated. You can say if it's parallel and Jin's not in his original universe, Miki Tachibana already existed. However, they showed the picture changing several times, every time Jin did something he shouldn't have. That meant history was changing doesn't it? So having "Miki surgeon and his fiance" become "Miki the teacher" to "Miki Tachibana private doctor" are due to changes made by him or indirectly affected by him. If the future is changed, his present self who went back to the past and didn't have Miki as his fiance, might change the future again because his goals would be different. Hence causing another rift in time and another change to the future. A vicious cycle...yanie wrote: I was thinking this way in the beginning. But then I remember what Jin said before Yamamoto Koji left the classroom. "So did the doctor finally change the history? He went to the B parallel world, right? That means, the B world history might be different than the A world's history he knew. Which means, I didn't change anything at all, in the end."
This means, regardless how the manga went, the drama's writer concludes that even though Jin went to the past, but it is a different past than his world's past, the differences happened in the Edo period where Jin was, was not because Jin changed it, but simply because it is a B world. Which means, even since Season 1, the Edo period where Jin exist, have Miki as Tachibana Miki in the future. There's suppose to be no changes at all.
So I'm assuming "Miki teaching class" vision in the ending of S1 was just a plothole
But how I wish the TBS production guys would be willing to develop that as something more and make it a sequel. Hehe, never mind... I'm just a desperate JINxMIKI fan
Have you watched Ep11? The tumour didn't disappear and end up in his head.seirin wrote:It didn't really vanish. They operated on Jin and removed the tumour. How the tumour disappeared is when the other Jin fell through the time slip carrying it with it. When he time slipped, somehow the tumour disappeared and end up in his head. Don't ask me how...
The tumour was in Jin's head since he was born, his mother was pregnant with 2 fertilized eggs (to-be-born a twin), but then the twin's embryo was absorped inside embryo-Jin. And then Jin grew up still with his twin's embryo inside his head, and it developed into a cancer. Well, at least, that's Yamamoto Koji's explanation
What I want to know is, what's the relation of this "vanishing twin" syndrome explanation with Jin's fate of time-travelling?
Ah, sou ka! Totally forgot abt the changing picture. Seem like in Season 1 brings forth the theory that every Jin's decision changes the future.seirin wrote:Hmm...seems complicated. You can say if it's parallel and Jin's not in his original universe, Miki Tachibana already existed. However, they showed the picture changing several times, every time Jin did something he shouldn't have. That meant history was changing doesn't it?
But then suddenly the conclusion of Season 2 is that Jin didn't change anything at all?
Yappari, plothole da Inconsistencies between S1 and S2.
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IMHO, Manga >>>>>> Drama by a country mile. The drama has a lot of unnecessary narratives and dialogs which don't really move the story forward, thus making it felt draggy and caused a lot of pacing problems (that's why I only skimmed thru S1 and S2).
Read the manga if you can; if provides a more logical explanation and a more satisfying ending. However, like all time travel stories, it still failed to provide a full-proof plot to avoid introducing time travel paradoxes. Even though it's not as good as the mangaka's prior work 'RON' which takes up 45 volumes (vs 20 for JIN), it's still grandios and epic in scale (just like 'RON'). I have a sneak suspension that he decided to end the series sooner then he wanted to prevent a JIN 3, just so that TBS can't continue to bastardize his work as the first 2 seasons had turned it into a piffle, overwrought melodrama.
Read the manga if you can; if provides a more logical explanation and a more satisfying ending. However, like all time travel stories, it still failed to provide a full-proof plot to avoid introducing time travel paradoxes. Even though it's not as good as the mangaka's prior work 'RON' which takes up 45 volumes (vs 20 for JIN), it's still grandios and epic in scale (just like 'RON'). I have a sneak suspension that he decided to end the series sooner then he wanted to prevent a JIN 3, just so that TBS can't continue to bastardize his work as the first 2 seasons had turned it into a piffle, overwrought melodrama.
The fact that I feel like reading the manga now bcoz I'm not satisfied with the drama's ending, perhaps it was quite a successful strategy by the manga-ka to let TBS "bastardize"(quoting your word ) his work. With different plots and different endings, viewers would want to read the manga too, to compare, or to find satisfying answers I think the manga-ka should've just continue the mangazettaiKaren wrote:Read the manga if you can; if provides a more logical explanation and a more satisfying ending. However, like all time travel stories, it still failed to provide a full-proof plot to avoid introducing time travel paradoxes. Even though it's not as good as the mangaka's prior work 'RON' which takes up 45 volumes (vs 20 for JIN), it's still grandios and epic in scale (just like 'RON'). I have a sneak suspension that he decided to end the series sooner then he wanted to prevent a JIN 3, just so that TBS can't continue to bastardize his work as the first 2 seasons had turned it into a piffle, overwrought melodrama.
I saw ep 11 raw so I don't know the details ^^; Koji's explanation in Japanese is too complicated for me to understand ^^; I just notice him drawing things on the board and generalized he's making a parallel universe assumption.yanie wrote: Have you watched Ep11? The tumour didn't disappear and end up in his head.
The tumour was in Jin's head since he was born, his mother was pregnant with 2 fertilized eggs (to-be-born a twin), but then the twin's embryo was absorped inside embryo-Jin. And then Jin grew up still with his twin's embryo inside his head, and it developed into a cancer. Well, at least, that's Yamamoto Koji's explanation
What I want to know is, what's the relation of this "vanishing twin" syndrome explanation with Jin's fate of time-travelling?
Well, S2 say he didn't change anything at all maybe because it's already changed? Maybe too little to have affect in the future? Or maybe because history is changed, it's already part of history in his parallel world. What he does in the past affects the future slightly, but that's already become history by the time he's born. When he grows up and travels again second time, third time, history changes already. It's like a cycle. 2010 Jin goes back to Edo, Edo Jin ends up back in 2010 when 2010 Jin falls back into Edo again. Or are they saying it's one cycle and the 2010 Jin that disappeared is forever the second time around? O_oyanie wrote: Ah, sou ka! Totally forgot abt the changing picture. Seem like in Season 1 brings forth the theory that every Jin's decision changes the future.
But then suddenly the conclusion of Season 2 is that Jin didn't change anything at all?
Yappari, plothole da Inconsistencies between S1 and S2.
Q: what became of Nokaze's husband?
I watched both seasons of Jin with no subs. I understand everything pretty well. He's now in a parallel universe in which things are different. His girlfriend is no longer in a coma, and doesn't recognize him.
But I somehow missed one thing: why didn't Nokaze's husband take the baby? Instead it was adopted by Saki-san. What become of the Frenchman?
I also don't entirely "get" why the Edo period doctors somehow "forgot" the mysterious doctor from the future. In Saki's letter, he is just "maru maru". In the parallel future, Jin researches the past and finds references to effects of his presence in the Edo period, but no actual reference to himself. This is a little bit dodgy, logically.
I watched both seasons of Jin with no subs. I understand everything pretty well. He's now in a parallel universe in which things are different. His girlfriend is no longer in a coma, and doesn't recognize him.
But I somehow missed one thing: why didn't Nokaze's husband take the baby? Instead it was adopted by Saki-san. What become of the Frenchman?
I also don't entirely "get" why the Edo period doctors somehow "forgot" the mysterious doctor from the future. In Saki's letter, he is just "maru maru". In the parallel future, Jin researches the past and finds references to effects of his presence in the Edo period, but no actual reference to himself. This is a little bit dodgy, logically.
....whatever happend to that Prostitue that Kyotaro liked?
Anyways, I find that the ending was one of the best I've ever watched. And although I would like to read the manga, I think I'm pretty satisfied with the series so reading won't be neccessary (though yeah, the manga probably is better than the drama lol).
But yeah, JIN was awesome
Anyways, I find that the ending was one of the best I've ever watched. And although I would like to read the manga, I think I'm pretty satisfied with the series so reading won't be neccessary (though yeah, the manga probably is better than the drama lol).
But yeah, JIN was awesome
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The answers to your questions are, basically:kajukaju wrote:Q: what became of Nokaze's husband?
I watched both seasons of Jin with no subs. I understand everything pretty well. He's now in a parallel universe in which things are different. His girlfriend is no longer in a coma, and doesn't recognize him.
But I somehow missed one thing: why didn't Nokaze's husband take the baby? Instead it was adopted by Saki-san. What become of the Frenchman?
I also don't entirely "get" why the Edo period doctors somehow "forgot" the mysterious doctor from the future. In Saki's letter, he is just "maru maru". In the parallel future, Jin researches the past and finds references to effects of his presence in the Edo period, but no actual reference to himself. This is a little bit dodgy, logically.
The manga's ending is totally different, and these are all accounted for (or not because
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They kind of dragged out Nokaze's part in season 2 as well to give Miki more screen time. I see no point of her being there until the end. It was just weird.
*edit*
I made a Itoshiki Hibiyo MV for Jin/Saki. Don't know if anybody can actually see it. (TBS may block it. Dunno.)
I'm not a manga fan or anything but I did skim through the manga raws (for the interest of Jin and Saki development.) And even for that little exposure I was able to feel that it's grandiose and epic. As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world. So many times I wanted to slap him and said dude you accidentally fell into the steps and got here. You're not special. I felt that manga Jin was just doing stuff. Did he whine like drama Jin? As for the ending, I know they're completely differently. They could have followed the manga regardless of how they changed the story in the first part. They had the chance to follow the manga in the 2nd part. That didn't happen and so I couldn't get the explanation of the manga from the drama. So anyways in the manga, Edo Jin came back to Edo successfully and he went to cure Saki. Then after that I saw Jin waking up in modern world with memory of Edo. Which Jin is that?
*edit*
I made a Itoshiki Hibiyo MV for Jin/Saki. Don't know if anybody can actually see it. (TBS may block it. Dunno.)
Most drama fans think the drama is the best thing since slice bread so they probably won't touch the manga so they probably ever see the epicness of his manga. It got butchered for nothing. Oh well.zettaiKaren wrote:IMHO, Manga >>>>>> Drama by a country mile. The drama has a lot of unnecessary narratives and dialogs which don't really move the story forward, thus making it felt draggy and caused a lot of pacing problems (that's why I only skimmed thru S1 and S2).
Read the manga if you can; if provides a more logical explanation and a more satisfying ending. However, like all time travel stories, it still failed to provide a full-proof plot to avoid introducing time travel paradoxes. Even though it's not as good as the mangaka's prior work 'RON' which takes up 45 volumes (vs 20 for JIN), it's still grandios and epic in scale (just like 'RON'). I have a sneak suspension that he decided to end the series sooner then he wanted to prevent a JIN 3, just so that TBS can't continue to bastardize his work as the first 2 seasons had turned it into a piffle, overwrought melodrama.
I'm not a manga fan or anything but I did skim through the manga raws (for the interest of Jin and Saki development.) And even for that little exposure I was able to feel that it's grandiose and epic. As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world. So many times I wanted to slap him and said dude you accidentally fell into the steps and got here. You're not special. I felt that manga Jin was just doing stuff. Did he whine like drama Jin? As for the ending, I know they're completely differently. They could have followed the manga regardless of how they changed the story in the first part. They had the chance to follow the manga in the 2nd part. That didn't happen and so I couldn't get the explanation of the manga from the drama. So anyways in the manga, Edo Jin came back to Edo successfully and he went to cure Saki. Then after that I saw Jin waking up in modern world with memory of Edo. Which Jin is that?
Totally agree! It was very well done, everything just sorta wrapped up nicely. Even moved me to tears!HandofFate wrote:damn, what a satisfying final episode.
Jin's health gradually declining and losing his abilities to do medicine was pretty emotional. They should have focused on that for the last 3 episodes instead of the Ryoma thing which I didn't care for.
I'm not a manga read of JIN, so I don't have to be one of those 'How dare they temper with the source material!!" people.
Pretty happy bittersweet ending, and the corrective powers of history is scary...
My favorite minor character was probably Saburi. He was always a nice presence whenever he was on-screen.
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Touche! Same feeling here - 'talky, preachy, too much meaningless voice narrative and unnecessary dialogs', etc.; and no, the manga Jin does not whine like this.Hideaki_Ito wrote:As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world. So many times I wanted to slap him and said dude you accidentally fell into the steps and got here. You're not special. I felt that manga Jin was just doing stuff. Did he whine like drama Jin?
So anyways in the manga, Edo Jin came back to Edo successfully and he went to cure Saki. Then after that I saw Jin waking up in modern world with memory of Edo. Which Jin is that?
Last edited by zettaiKaren on Jul 2nd, '11, 16:34, edited 2 times in total.
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That's why I prefer manga Jin. I gave drama Jin a theme song, "Yesterday" from the Beatles. "Suddenly I'm not half the man I used to be. There's a shadow hanging over me..."zettaiKaren wrote:Touche! Same feeling here - 'talky, preachy, too much meaningless voice narrative and unnecessary dialogs', etc.; and no, the manga Jin does not whine like this.
In the last episode of Season 2, Miki Tachibana mentions to Jin that although she is a medical historian, but also works part time at a juku (cram school) in Yokohama.yanie wrote:
2. As a fan of Miki, I'd really like to know about that vision of Miki teaching a class that Jin saw in the ending of Season 1. Was that another AU, NOT the world where Miki was Jin's girlfriend NOR it was the world where Miki's surname is Tachibana?
Watched both seasons and it reminded me of the Hollywood film "The Adjustment Bureau". It's like the life of Jin's is being with... He did not only have to loose Tomonaga Miki, but also Tachibana Saki - who he spent like 6-7 with, may not be as married couple, but still, with a lots of love, affections.zettaiKaren wrote:Touche! Same feeling here - 'talky, preachy, too much meaningless voice narrative and unnecessary dialogs', etc.; and no, the manga Jin does not whine like this.Hideaki_Ito wrote:As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world. So many times I wanted to slap him and said dude you accidentally fell into the steps and got here. You're not special. I felt that manga Jin was just doing stuff. Did he whine like drama Jin?
Purpose of this time travel is I don't understand, it can be an accident or a deliberate messing with Jin's life.. And after spending some painful 6-7 years he still had to loose Saki and found himself stuck in another world/ timeline with Tachibana Miki. If the purpose was to undo the unsuccessful operation on Tomonaga Miki, then it was probably one of the most sadistic paths that could be there. After the timeline was changed, the deamlike memory and feeling of loosing the loved ones forever was absolutely the most heartbreaking. Even if it felt like a dream, the impact was so severe that Saki decided to remain unmarried for rest of her life, and we don't know what will happen to Jin, wondering if he has to fall in love with Tachibana Miki, then he could fall in love with Nokaze as well... and that's not what happened.
It's only possible a person won't remain sane like this... To think, it's only normal that Jin whines .....
Well i will love to see a season 3 of Jin where Saki won't have to remember Minakata Jin as "O O Sensei" and they can be together for the rest of their life.
Even though the series has been a master piece, the last episode was just too heartbreaking and became "The Heartbreaking Story of Love and Loss Beyond Time and Space" and it leaves a strong feeling of incompleteness, as if being cursed by the god of time ..... :/
p.s. I just remembered the film "The Time Traveler's Wife" too.....
I've been reading 20 pages non-stop of your discussion with this Jdorama 'coz I needed to enlighten myself. It's hard to watch it alone, neh? haha... Thanks for the different opinions from you guys, I've been enlightened a lot.seirin wrote:I think most people suspected it was himself way back in the beginning anyhow. We just needed the "okay" from the writer. It was kind of obvious how the stranger knew where things were in the hospital (where medicine was placed, where the fetus is located), where to hide to get around everyone, what medical supplies to pack. If it really was Ryoma he wouldn't have taken such a short time to make it to the fire escape. He would need hours to check every room in the hospital and somehow know where to sneak around so people don't see him. The hospital is full of patients. I don't think he would know to escape using the fire escape.
Moving forward, this theory is reasonable.
I may be in the minority here but I actually really enjoyed season 2. I liked the fact that it was less focused on the medical stuff and more on the actual mystery as to why he was in Edo. I haven't read the manga so I didn't particularly care about the Jin and Saki pairing (which I found was rather forced this season). I thought the ending was really satisfying though (although I'm still struggling to come to grips with is implications)!
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I read this long thread whilst I was watching the two dramas JIN and JIN 2 and wanted to say that I enjoyed all of your comments. I also found the subject of time travelling backwards and forwards a little confusing so I only concentrated on the main storyline of Jin being in the Edo era and trying to bring change in the medical and historical world. I personally appreciated the character of Saki very much indeed mostly because she was extremely wise and patient, sometimes even more than Jin himself and therefore I wasn't too happy with how the story ended for her. I also agree with what someone said on here that throughout the series it seemed that Jin was more interested in his friendship with Ryoma than in his relationship with Saki only to realize how important she was for him when it was too late. In any case I absolutely LOVED these dramas and I consider them to be amongst the best Japanese dramas I have watched so far.
sunflower,
So glad you got to see Jin and that you enjoyed. I loved the first one best as I thought they did not solve the time slip too well in Jin 2 and I did not like the end and being left adrift as to what really happened to Jin.
I think Yanaliao asked about the possibility of the geisha having a child with the man who bought her from the Geisha house. That did not complete, because after the cancer operaton she was no longer desirable as a beautiful woman. She was actually glad to be free of the geisha life and went on to be a teacher on her own. She left Dr Jin and Saki and Ryoma and it was that lovely scene when the snow began to fall as she left them. this was all in Jin 1 of course.
In Jin 2 she finally agreed to marry the French man who seemed to really love her and they were very happy. then she eventually had a child.At least that is how I remember but I could be wrong. It's quite a while since I watched these dramas.
So many lines of interest in this drama and many discussions that we had over the first one.
So glad you got to see Jin and that you enjoyed. I loved the first one best as I thought they did not solve the time slip too well in Jin 2 and I did not like the end and being left adrift as to what really happened to Jin.
I think Yanaliao asked about the possibility of the geisha having a child with the man who bought her from the Geisha house. That did not complete, because after the cancer operaton she was no longer desirable as a beautiful woman. She was actually glad to be free of the geisha life and went on to be a teacher on her own. She left Dr Jin and Saki and Ryoma and it was that lovely scene when the snow began to fall as she left them. this was all in Jin 1 of course.
In Jin 2 she finally agreed to marry the French man who seemed to really love her and they were very happy. then she eventually had a child.At least that is how I remember but I could be wrong. It's quite a while since I watched these dramas.
So many lines of interest in this drama and many discussions that we had over the first one.
First of all, Thanks God d_addicts is back online!
I'm a late comer to this series, I'm not a very bright person, the time travelling thing is always confusing me, can never understand the theory... And so is this one. I watched the whole thing but still confused about what had happened! Was it all just a recollection of Jin's past life?
Must say the acting very good, Ayase Haruka not only has a pretty face but she can act too. And must check out other works from Osawa Takao, he makes me stay awake till 3 am watching Jin!
This Jin is way way better then Korean Jin!
I'm a late comer to this series, I'm not a very bright person, the time travelling thing is always confusing me, can never understand the theory... And so is this one. I watched the whole thing but still confused about what had happened! Was it all just a recollection of Jin's past life?
Must say the acting very good, Ayase Haruka not only has a pretty face but she can act too. And must check out other works from Osawa Takao, he makes me stay awake till 3 am watching Jin!
This Jin is way way better then Korean Jin!
@Tran,
Agree re Korean Jin It never should have been called Dr. Jin in the first place. totally different take on the basic idea.
Osawa Takao is just too gorgeous for words. He is so good just to look at and he is really a very sensitive actor. He is also good in comedy.
I decided to just accept this drama at face value. I believed it all happened and he really went back into time. I don't know why and I really don't very much care. I simply went with the flow and enjoyed it all. The JIN 2 was not as satisfactory and I did not really like the end but it was still worth watching. Just not as good as the first JIN.
Agree re Korean Jin It never should have been called Dr. Jin in the first place. totally different take on the basic idea.
Osawa Takao is just too gorgeous for words. He is so good just to look at and he is really a very sensitive actor. He is also good in comedy.
I decided to just accept this drama at face value. I believed it all happened and he really went back into time. I don't know why and I really don't very much care. I simply went with the flow and enjoyed it all. The JIN 2 was not as satisfactory and I did not really like the end but it was still worth watching. Just not as good as the first JIN.
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Any drama about time travel is going to be a bit silly. Can't really happen and doesn't make any sense, or we would see time travelers among us right now, and it also violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics (read Stephen Hawkins if you need an explanation of this).
But when you suspend beliief and take this time travel to have actually happened, there is a facinating culture clash between a modern Japanese person and people from the Edo era. The sense of time, order of society, belief in supernatural causes of disease, ideas of nutrition, etc. are complete culture shocks to someone like Jin from the modern age. Those of us who have spent some time in Tokyo see the Edo era versus the modern era city all the time, i.e. parts of the subway and train system track the old gates of Edo castle and the system of castle moats.
I particularly like JIN 1 due to the central role of the nuts and bolts of technology to save people's lives. You come to see that it takes the efforts of many people to deveolop simple elements. JIN 2 is interesting because it ties together the various unexplained threads of the plot of JIN 1.
But when you suspend beliief and take this time travel to have actually happened, there is a facinating culture clash between a modern Japanese person and people from the Edo era. The sense of time, order of society, belief in supernatural causes of disease, ideas of nutrition, etc. are complete culture shocks to someone like Jin from the modern age. Those of us who have spent some time in Tokyo see the Edo era versus the modern era city all the time, i.e. parts of the subway and train system track the old gates of Edo castle and the system of castle moats.
I particularly like JIN 1 due to the central role of the nuts and bolts of technology to save people's lives. You come to see that it takes the efforts of many people to deveolop simple elements. JIN 2 is interesting because it ties together the various unexplained threads of the plot of JIN 1.
He didn't have any intention to save the world in Jin 1. All he wanted to do was speed up medical technology in hopes of saving Miki in the future. If he evolved medicine faster, maybe in the future, they could go further and there might be a cure to save Miki by the time she has a tumour in the future. It was for his own selfish reasons. When it came to saving others and affecting the future, he got hesitant. It was Saki who kept pushing him to save people because he's a doctor. He should do his job.Hideaki_Ito wrote: As for the drama it tried pretty hard to be grandiose but somehow I just felt it used too many gimmicks and there was too much preaching and tried too damn hard to be deep. I got tired of all that BS. Anyways, since you read the manga maybe you can give me some insights. How is manga Jin comparing to drama Jin? Drama Jin got on my nerve. I got tired of him thinking like he was in Edo to save the world.
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