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[Discussion] Hanawake no Yon Shimai

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lollercopter
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[Discussion] Hanawake no Yon Shimai

Post by lollercopter » Jul 12th, '11, 04:07

DramaWiki:
A dad who is popular with the ladies and a mom that continues to love the dad without any doubt like a young girl. The four sisters that the unbelievably ironclad husband and wife raised includes, an unmarried and divorced, a marriage hunter, a boyfriend-less, and one that has no luck with men. Out of them all, the second daughter Takemi, was the problem child, having divorced multiple times and has 3 kids. Because Takemi lives true to herself, she often ends up standing out from everyone, and gets called “the femme fatale with many lovers,” problem child,” and “devil.” Will she end up causing many humorous troubles!?
This seems like it'll be an above average show at the very least. I liked the first episode.

But one thing brought my piss to a boil: the guy who, I guess, is going to be the love interest of Sakurako (Shihori Kanjiya). He is simply a creepy douchebag par excellence, and as soon as I saw him I wanted to punch him. But it quickly became clear that a shovel would be needed instead. Perhaps that would permanently wipe that smirk off his face.
Image

Look at this sh*t magician when Sakurako starts chugging down her beer! His creepy smirk seems to be saying, "Yes, get drunk. Get very drunk. Soon I will have my way with you, woman." And then he does. While I wouldn't call it rape, it definitely qualifies as taking advantage of her. In the morning he continues acting like the most obnoxiously smug douchebag in the solar system, and suddenly a shovel seems like a woefully inadequate final solution. He would be much more bearable if he was at least masculine and had some macho swagger, but he's just this limp-wristed metrosexual girly-man who nobody could possibly take seriously. And of course he's a photographer as well. Later on he literally drags Sakurako with him because apparently women are his playthings, or because alcohol and physical force are the only way he can get women to do anything with him.

Sakurako seems like a naive, inexperienced and inassertive woman who doesn't quite know what she's doing. But I'm sure this will play out like a typical romance anyway, and my interpretation of the characters has nothing to do with what the writers intended. I'd just really prefer to see Kanjiya with some decent guy, like in Massugu na Otoko. It suits her much better.
Otherwise it's all good, and since there are multiple characters with multiple storylines it doesn't matter too much if one of them has problems. I hope this gets subbed since furransu said he won't continue uploading otherwise.
Last edited by lollercopter on Aug 3rd, '11, 11:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by avieamber » Jul 15th, '11, 07:08

still waiting for the subs. So, can't comment till then, but the casts look pretty strong.

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Post by lollercopter » Jul 16th, '11, 13:50

I could really use subs too, though after years of watching Japanese movies and dramas I can follow along surprisingly well without subs.

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Post by greenjade05 » Jul 18th, '11, 20:42

I thought the first episode was really good! To be honest, for some wierd feeling, I do want Sakurako to end up with Shozaburo. However, I just get this wierd feeling that he's going to have a really deep crush on Takemi.

@lollercopter--I can definitely understand where you are coming from. I too, noticed that Sakurako is easy to read and he did take advantage of that. What's your take on Takemi, Fujiko, and Ume?

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Post by avieamber » Jul 19th, '11, 07:17

lollercopter wrote:I could really use subs too, though after years of watching Japanese movies and dramas I can follow along surprisingly well without subs.
for family drama, I think I can catch the main topic of conversation they're talking about, but I still like to have subs, just to fully understand the whole story. But sometimes I watch without subs, if I really like the drama (when I'm truly desperate though). :D

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Post by lollercopter » Jul 19th, '11, 11:57

greenjade05 wrote:What's your take on Takemi, Fujiko, and Ume?
I don't have any particular take on them so far, though it's easy to see that Takemi is someone who appears frivolous but really isn't.

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Post by greenjade05 » Jul 19th, '11, 18:00

^I see what you mean. When I watched the show for the very first time, I thought Takemi was a little "high maintenance" in some ways. It seemed as if when it came to trying court her, a guy can't be cheap. But now as I work on the subs I do feel a bit differently about her personality yet I still think she's a bit conceited (just a little bit but I do like her!).

I did have a little laugh when Sakurako called Takemi the devil when her co-worker asked about her sister.

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Re: [Discussion] Hanawake no Yon Shimai

Post by emma-ba » Jul 20th, '11, 16:09

lollercopter wrote:This seems like it'll be an above average show at the very least. I liked the first episode.

But one thing brought my piss to a boil: the guy who, I guess, is going to be the love interest of Sakurako (Shihori Kanjiya). He is simply a creepy douchebag par excellence, and as soon as I saw him I wanted to punch him. But it quickly became clear that a shovel would be needed instead. Perhaps that would permanently wipe that smirk off his face.
Image

Look at this sh*t magician when Sakurako starts chugging down her beer! His creepy smirk seems to be saying, "Yes, get drunk. Get very drunk. Soon I will have my way with you, woman." And then he does. While I wouldn't call it rape, it definitely qualifies as taking advantage of her. In the morning he continues acting like the most obnoxiously smug douchebag in the solar system, and suddenly a shovel seems like a woefully inadequate final solution. He would be much more bearable if he was at least masculine and had some macho swagger, but he's just this limp-wristed metrosexual girly-man who nobody could possibly take seriously. And of course he's a photographer as well. Later on he literally drags Sakurako with him because apparently women are his playthings, or because alcohol and physical force are the only way he can get women to do anything with him.

Sakurako seems like a naive, inexperienced and inassertive woman who doesn't quite know what she's doing. But I'm sure this will play out like a typical romance anyway, and my interpretation of the characters has nothing to do with what the writers intended. I'd just really prefer to see Kanjiya with some decent guy, like in Massugu na Otoko. It suits her much better.
He didn't come across like that at all to me!
I didn't think he was smirking, just smiling. I was smiling when I was watching because the way Sakurako was behaving was funny:-) They're both adults and one night stands do happen. The fact that she voluntarily went back to see him and took a cake as well suggests she doesn' exactly regret it either.

I agree the 'grabbing by the wrist and dragging' thing seems bad to me, although I've seen it in a few dramas recently so maybe it's seen as an acceptable thing for men to do?
I am completely in love with the house they live in. I want that house!!

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Re: [Discussion] Hanawake no Yon Shimai

Post by lollercopter » Jul 20th, '11, 20:01

emma-ba wrote:He didn't come across like that at all to me!
I got some seriously creepy rape vibes from him. I can't remember the last time I've hated a character so viscerally.

The thing about Sakurako is that she doesn't seem like someone who would do one night stands, and she certainly was very bewildered in the morning. She wasn't expecting it to happen at all. That's why he was taking advantage of her. It would have been very different had she been flirty and forward and basically signalling that she's looking for a good time.

That Sakurako has any interest in him just shows how poor her judgment is.

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Re: [Discussion] Hanawake no Yon Shimai

Post by emma-ba » Jul 20th, '11, 20:15

lollercopter wrote:
emma-ba wrote:He didn't come across like that at all to me!
I got some seriously creepy rape vibes from him. I can't remember the last time I've hated a character so viscerally.

The thing about Sakurako is that she doesn't seem like someone who would do one night stands, and she certainly was very bewildered in the morning. She wasn't expecting it to happen at all. That's why he was taking advantage of her. It would have been very different had she been flirty and forward and basically signalling that she's looking for a good time.

That Sakurako has any interest in him just shows how poor her judgment is.
I think I take issue with the "she doesn't seem like someone who would do one night stands". You can never predict what someone's sex life is like. Yes she was bewildered but that's to be expected if you wake up in an unfamiliar place with a hangover and probably a slightly hazy memory.

I also think the 'one night stand' thing gets used a lot in dramas too to help kickstart a romance. I don't think too much can be read into it other than some writers sat down and thought "There's four sisters, we need to get one romance started in the first episode. Let's go with the 'one night stand' approach."

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Post by SSpiegel » Jul 23rd, '11, 01:31

I liked the first episode a lot! Even though it was an extra long pilot, it was still too short for my liking. Dramas with multiple storylines are usually like this for me: I'm always more interested in the side stories than the main one.

The promiscuous third daughter, who's supposed to be the devil nonetheless, is totally likable in my book! The geeky little sister is my favorite, tho, so I hope they concentrate on her story more profoundly in future episodes. Her senpai is so cute, too! :wub:

About the photographer
I don't think he's a borderline rapist, but he is a bit of a player. I think in the bar scene he was just amused how easy it was to read Sakurako. A girl who's usually like air to people, plus being overshadowed by her sister all her life, is a very easy target to a player who knows how to pick his words. And it seems he's very good at that. His words seemed to work very well on Sakurako's older sister as well. So, in a way you could count it as him taking advantage of her, but the girl needed attention and he gave it to her. She was probably not that reluctant.
And hey, lollercopter, I take my effeminate ikemens very seriously! :P

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Post by emma-ba » Jul 23rd, '11, 09:12

Episode 2 thoughts
I was warming to Takemi and thinking that she wasn't as bad her sisters made her out to be but when Takemi was throwing Fujiko's trophies in the bin I suddenly didn't like her anymore. I can see the point she was trying to make about how Fujiko doesn't need the trophies but throwing someone else's stuff in the bin is wrong. Sorry Takemi! You're currently my least favourite sister. Fujiko, you're my favourite!

The dad was so horrible! I hope they spend a lot of time on the parents' relationship. I'll be really annoyed if they just patch it up and pretend it never happened.

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Post by lollercopter » Jul 23rd, '11, 13:38

SSpiegel wrote:About the photographer
I don't think he's a borderline rapist, but he is a bit of a player. I think in the bar scene he was just amused how easy it was to read Sakurako. A girl who's usually like air to people, plus being overshadowed by her sister all her life, is a very easy target to a player who knows how to pick his words. And it seems he's very good at that. His words seemed to work very well on Sakurako's older sister as well. So, in a way you could count it as him taking advantage of her, but the girl needed attention and he gave it to her. She was probably not that reluctant.
After watching the first episode with subtitles it turned out that Sakurako had supposedly made the first move. I say "supposedly" because if we were outside and Mr. Player told me the sun is up, I would find a geophysicist and ask for a second opinion. I don't trust him at all. He also didn't make the claim until he had confirmed that Sakurako doesn't remember anything. But even if Sakurako had indeed taken the initiative, Shozaburo still shouldn't have done anything except let her sleep it off. You can't take a drunk person's behavior at face value, especially if it's diametrically opposed to their sober behavior. Alcohol is a debilitating, behavior-altering neurotoxin, not a truth serum.

Still, Sakurako could just be looking for attention -- that she is inexplicably not receiving despite being exceptionally attractive -- which of course takes us right back to her terrible judgment and her inability to spot an obvious creepy douchebag PUA. Maybe her mother and older sisters didn't teach her any better.
Takemi is pretty much the opposite of Sakurako. She's a master of social engineering, always in control of the situation. That's what I like about her.


Episode two:
Why was Fujiko's story so rushed? The bizarre conflict with her doppelganger comes and goes in a few scenes and is only there to make her go talk to her boyfriend about marriage. And then we get this:

Fujiko: I have suddenly reconsidered everything.
Boyfriend: Verily, this fills me with joy.
Fujiko: (*Phone rings* Sorry, I'll call you back.) So, you were going to propose to me earlier?
Boyfriend: Forget it, woman! I have no use for your workaholic ways. You don't really care about me. This will never work. People don't change so quickly, even though I just did in a few seconds. We're done here.

And then we quickly move to the trophy scene where the moral of the story is revealed and everything is wrapped up. The end. What was the hurry?

Also, note how Shozaburo very clumsily dodges Sakurako's question about their relationship status. He really is a poor man's pick-up artist. If he was any good I might not even notice what he's doing. In fact, if he was any good he might be able to convince poor Sakurako that he's a Nigerian prince and needs some assistance with transferring funds.

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Post by emma-ba » Jul 26th, '11, 14:48

Episode 3!!
Wow! I really didn't expect the mother to die! It's going to be interesting to see how the sisters treat their father from now on, after all if he hadn't had the affair she wouldn't have gone to Paris in the first place.

I was kind of annoyed at Takemi with trying to get her dad to fight for the marriage but I think that's because someone close to me is going through a divorce at the moment so I'm can't sympathise with anyone who has an affair no matter how much they might regret it. Also, seeing as she's only been in short, unsuccessful marriages I don't think she can understand how the dad feels having betrayed the mum after 33 years of marriage.

I'm pleased that we're finally getting to see more of Sakurako's relationship though. We know hardly anything about photographer guy and why Sakurako is attracted to him. I want to know more!

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Post by SSpiegel » Jul 28th, '11, 22:30

Episode 3: wowowowowow!!!
I expected this to be a relatively light family drama, but s**t just got real! I was so sure she was going to just jump up and be all "just kidding!". But no! Officially shocked and upset right now.

It's good that the episodes seem to circulate between the main characters. I mean, Takemi always has some part in what is happening throughout the episode, but then we also get to know the other characters as well. Next week's episode seems to be about the geeky little sister, so I'm looking forward to it. Episode 2 didn't work that well in concentrating on the second sister, there was just too much story for one episode, so I'm hoping the next episode and the next sister will be treated better.
Again, about the photographer
they are working hard to make him look super sketchy, so I doubt the reality is that bad. So there is another woman going about, and on top of that, someone Photographer doesn't want Sakurako to know about. I don't think he's cheating. By the looks of it (it was the same girl hanging on to him at the club while he was looking annoyed, right?), she's probably some troublesome woman, like an ex-girlfriend or some model who's pestering him. I can already see her saying "Photographer is mine, I've always loved him!" or something similar, haha!

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Post by lollercopter » Jul 28th, '11, 23:37

Episode three:
It's sad that Sakurako just wants to be somebody's wife, and she's wasting time with this doucheface. Oh well, I'm sure they'll completely rewrite him into a respectable human being soon enough. For no reason.

Ume seems to be pining after a potential doucheface too. I guess it's true what they say about women and a-holes.

I skipped over the whole last scene because I've seen it before a hundred times. So boring.

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Post by «minah» » Jul 29th, '11, 00:57

It's like a big Bloody Monday reunion lol
A long time since I've posted here... ^^; Well Just started eppy 3.. read some spoilers and after watching the preview from eppy 2 I'm not shocked she dies... (you can see them gathered around viewing her body in the hospital so... that was a given right there) just shocked they killed her off after 2 episodes like man... Not particular crazy about Alisa' character.. the way they talked about her I thought she was gonna be like Yamada Yu's character but Alisa doesn't seem like a real 'devil' just someone who kinda gets her way just by looks... yet she actually has some common sense nd not entirely selfish like Yu's character from Seigi no Mikata ^^;

About time Michiko isn't the sexy character because she seems to portray that to me in every role I see of hers.. ooozing with estrogen or something lol But she seems comical-ish in this show so that's cool... Interested in Ume and the second youngest (forgot her character name & her actual name ^^;;) than the 2 oldest ^^;

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Post by emma-ba » Jul 29th, '11, 07:40

lollercopter wrote:Episode three:
Ume seems to be pining after a potential doucheface too.
What makes art guy potentially bad? The fact that he has a girlfriend whilst Ume has a crush on him?It seems a bit early to be judging him seeing as he's barely spoken :P

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Post by avieamber » Jul 29th, '11, 08:20

emma-ba wrote:
lollercopter wrote:Episode three:
Ume seems to be pining after a potential doucheface too.
What makes art guy potentially bad? The fact that he has a girlfriend whilst Ume has a crush on him?It seems a bit early to be judging him seeing as he's barely spoken :P
I agree about the Ume's crush. The senpai still looks okay atm, there's still not much screen time so I'll give him a benefit of doubt. However, the photographer, Shou is really annoying to me. I literally feel like skipping his scenes. Sakurako can do better than a guy like him! That aside, I do feel bit sorry for the father, such an unexpected turn of events. Well, I didn't expect them to kill off a character in ep2 itself.
Pretty good episode, nonetheless.

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Post by emma-ba » Aug 2nd, '11, 21:04

Episode 4
I got a bit annoyed at Fujiko this episode. So she knows that Ume is alone with a dangerous guy but she just bleats to Takemi about her problems and Takemi wastes time giving Fujiko a peptalk. Get a grip! FIND UME!!!

I was also annoyed by the resolution of Ume's situation. What that guy did was very serious but as soon as Takemi shows up, cheerful music starts to play in the background and everything is solved by Takemi punching him. Um hello? Call the police? Charge him with assault? Maybe they'll do some more about it next episode but for now I'm quite dissatisfied :cussing:

Sakurako & Photographer guy: please can we see them having conversations that last more than 10 seconds? I have no idea what kind of impression we're supposed to have of their relationship :blink

Takemi's relentless cheerfulness also brings it down for me. At the moment she feels more like a caricature than a real person. I keep thinking at some point when she's alone we'll see her break down over her mother's death but she carries on like a robot that can only display one emotion.

I'm enjoying this series though :) I just feel they try and pack to much into each episode.

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Post by outcast_within » Aug 3rd, '11, 07:12

The first post really needs some work. It doesn't tell much about the show.

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Post by lollercopter » Aug 3rd, '11, 11:15

I added a link to DramaWiki and the show's description.

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Post by SSpiegel » Aug 9th, '11, 21:11

emma-ba wrote:Episode 4

Sakurako & Photographer guy: please can we see them having conversations that last more than 10 seconds? I have no idea what kind of impression we're supposed to have of their relationship :blink


I just feel they try and pack to much into each episode.
Agreed.

I think there's just so much going on in every episode that there's no time to really get into anything. All the characters seem so shallow, and so do the relationships. I've given up on SakurakoxPhotographer relationship. They just give us nothing, really, Sakurako just hangs around his house playing wife, Photographer whispers some sweet things into her ears and does something suspicious the second she turns her back. In. Every. Episode. :roll

Episode 4 was totally packed in every aspect tho. If you think about it, there was the funeral, SakurakoxPhotographerxTakemi triangle, Ume's identity crisis (+creepy karaoke guy incident), Fujiko takes charge of the family (and work), TakemixEx-husband and so on. How can we ever learn anything about anyone when everyone's on screen for, like, 30 seconds at a time? I wish they would spend more time on one sister at a time and not squeeze everyone into one episode. :x
A bit disappointed right now, but I'll keep watching.

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Post by emma-ba » Aug 9th, '11, 21:43

Episode 5 thoughts: long and rambly
So this episode seemed to revolve around everyone's dates for the Firework Festival. Takemi went with the kids to the ex-husbands house.
Fujiko suddenly found her old boss in the basement and sat with him on a rooftop.
Sakurako was going to spend time with Photographer (still can't remember his name)
Ume had no plans

But there was the big kerfuffle with Photographer suddenly getting a background this led to him preparing to sleep with an old woman for a photography competition. Takemi of couse saves the day, gets in her 'violent act' and take Photographer off to the beach to cheer him up. At no point does she think it would be a good idea to tell Sakurako what's happening because... oh wait, we didn't get given a reason. Ok then, maybe we'll find out next episode.

When Sakurako fell over though, it was the most genuine looking fall I've ever seen in a jdrama. I was shocked! Maybe she really did trip up?

My favourite part of the episode was when Sakurako and Ex-husband find each other spying at the old people's home and then go for a drink. It was good to hear more about Takemi. More character background please!

Final point: I only realised a few hours after watching the episode that the Dad hadn't appeared at all. Where are you Dad?! Come back!
General thoughts
I think my problem with this drama is that I really want to like it more than it lets me...
I've analysed why this might be and come up with these points;

1) In each episode it feels like they filmed a bunch of scenes and strung them together rather than working out a coherent storyline.

2) The characters don't get much screentime so it's hard to get to know them. I don't understand their motivations for what they do which makes it hard to care about them.

Having said that I'm going to stay hopeful and keep watching :)

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Post by «minah» » Sep 6th, '11, 21:15

....I've never been so annoyed with pretty much every character in a show.. (well maybe Second Virgin..which is why I dropped it... lol) but omg you dunno how much I wanna slap Takemi's whipped ex-husband... that stupid selfish assistant... Shou... and Sakuranbo... I just.... she's just... I really can't stand her the most ^^;;;; I'm just starting eppy 8 but UGH since the 3nd eppy everyone pretty much bothered me... I think the one who I can tolerate the most is Ume

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Post by SSpiegel » Sep 6th, '11, 22:31

OMG, I know!
Before episode 7 I thought "will anyone end up happy like this?", but afterwards it was "so they're gonna turn this whole sh*it around? not sure if interested". Photographer & Sakurako... I have no words for that mess. The rest aren't doing that well either. But I've come this far, I'm going to finish it no matter what.

ETA
Just finished watching episode 8. Ahahahaha, now I really have no words! I have to hand it to this drama: for the first time in a very loooooong time, I have no idea how this will end. I did change my mind about one thing tho:
Photographer & Takemi are surprisingly sweet together. I mean, in real life there's no way I'd condone to that, but since this is a drama and quite a silly and melodramatic one, too, I'm taking the bait. I feel sorry for them both and kind of happy that they found each other. I still doubt they'll end up together, but who knows! Older woman - younger man couples are pretty popular these days, plus Photographer getting married to the obsessed and batsh*t crazy Sakurako seems unlikely.
Aaa-ah, I guess I'll be on the edge of my seat till the end afterall.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 7th, '11, 15:47

^
OMG YES! I'm like "I might as well finish this.... ugh....." But after 8... I have lost completely all respect fort he ex-husband... COMPLETELY.
Whatever hes trying to plan... He's just completely effed up... you have your assistant pretty much control/whip you... tells you that you have to pretty much abandon your kids (he fits well with many dads in the states >___> ) because SHE'S pregnant... sorry Takemi, that's not a mother's understanding... that's a jealous woman understanding because she doesn't like the fact her new husband would still have some connection tot he woman he truly loves... but obviously can't completely if he's scheming some crap like this. THEN tells them they have to change their last name (all this changing last name crap and blah blah... omg I dunno if I would wanna get marry in Japan esp since I wanna keep my name....) And he thinks he can just walk into his kids' lives after they turn 18!? Wtf is he sniffing!? (this is just too unrealistic to me for him to think... he can just waltz into their lives when they turn 18... yeah ok) THEN THIS mutha-effer have the nerve to ditch his kids for their final meeting because of his WIFE?! And has the nerves to call his co-worker to spy & take pictures so he can use it in some legal case just because some other dude likes her!? I'm sorry but that's like... almost the last straw for me... He's already married to someone else... they have (having) their last names changed.... SO WHAT MORE CAN HE GET OUTTA THAT FAMILY!? I really wanna see what legal BS they're gonna pull outta this... It's good Takemi isn't with him anymore if he's capable of doing some crap like that. He's pretty much just like the photographer! They're with someone but obsessed with their 'love.' They can have their frickin cake &eat it too... aren't their any positive men in this show!? Geez after this is makes me don't wanna date anyone lol! The only semi-decent guy is Ume's and he's a frickin dope... (he's not a good actor either.... the way he's portraying his character.. if he's even trying.. is very dope-ish)

Sakurabo whatever her name is.... AAAAARRRRRHHHGGGG!!! Sorry she's stupid..... Who the heck is she to still be pressed on her dad, treating him the way she does while her stupid boyfriend is still messing around with her sister? She's crazily obsessed because some cute guy showed an interest in her... (pretty much he knew what to say to get her in bed ) so now she's all "I will never let go of his hand!!!!!!" She needs to grow up and know that people can't own other people.. no one can own someone's heart.. he's not yours to have. This couple I hate the most but she's the one I can't stand the most because she's still with him despite what's going on. But yeah back to her dad... I'm so pissed the way she treats him. He raised you, he's the one bringing money in the house all those years... pretty much showered them with whatever they wanted.. FORGAVE them (obviously I'm guessing) for whatever mistakes they make... he eff up once and now he's the Devil? And then to really blame her death on him? Just that he's obligated to forgive his daughters, but they're not obligated (well more so Sakura now) to forgive him? Yet her man is pretty much cheating on her? And was known to have multiple girls (and still kinda did when they first started going out) But she still hates her dad.. yeah I know she's hurt with it all since it's her father who is seen as great and he cheated on his wife.. but for her to have this obsessive relationship and pretty much don't care if she gets cheated on... ugh... it just comes off as hypocritical...

And photographer dude..... After getting spat on (metaphorically) in the face a thousand times.. he still keeps running back to Takemi... he already has some girl who's crazy-obsessed with him but he's gonna hurt her by crushing hard on her sister!? Like omg.... I think he's an M.... he must like being pushed around and stuff (and I'm guessing he keeps coming back to her not only because she's older... she probably has some qualities that his mom had so that's why he's so attached..) but yeah he's extremely annoying as well because he's a dog. But when Takemi hurts his feelings he goes crying back to Sakura.... sorry but almost everyone in this show is pretty much selfish except for well.. Takemi in a way & Ume...

Fujiko.... well she held her composure really well (such a culture clash) because I would not let some dude's mom frickin throw a flower pot at me... and she thinking it's really ok... And then have them call me a 1001 names because I said I cancelled the wedding since I like someone else!? (omg they met pretty much at a dating party... and I wanna say it was close to being an omiai...) A whim of a marriage at least she said something before she got married (and I bet she would've looked more evil if she cheated on him during the marriage so.. yeah no win either way) Ugh the culture clash >< But her foolishly still going back to her senior when he's still technically married... I'm sorry but *shakes head* Everyone can't get everything they want...
yes... sorry for the rant but this show is really frustrating and I dunno if it's a combination of culture clash or just how they made these characters because... they're just.... shamelessly selfish... I wonder how Japanese viewers feel about the characters actually...

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Post by lissamae » Sep 10th, '11, 02:14

@«minah»

I feel your 'rant' ... I just started watching this drama a few days ago, but wow.

about ep 9.
and I am really disapointed that the writers would portray this 'I will die without you' crap. This is something that even in dramas, is a really horrible way of thinking to put out in the world. And for the dad to just beg Shou-chan to love Sakurako, when he should be punching him in the face and telling him his daughter deserves a man that really loves he... ugh!
I also wonder what Japanese viewers think about it. I am really frustrated by male characters in Japanese dramas lately, makes me wonder how true to life it might be. [/spoiler]

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 12th, '11, 12:29

My Internet connection went down for a month, and I've now caught up to episode 8.

Here are some observations recorded as I went through the episodes.

Episode 4
- It is an absolutely sound idea to do a Judo throw against an old man on a hard surface for no reason at all. If he dies of a skull fracture or breaks a bone you can tell the police you did it for the lulz and they'll let you go.

- This is the second time I've heard Cutie Honey as a karaoke song in a drama, and at least the third time I've heard it in general. I guess it must be popular.

- The guy Ume is with is like some kind of criminal mastermind. Get a girl you know to come with you in plain sight of many witnesses who know both of you, go into a karaoke room with even more witnesses seeing you (probably cameras too), give her drugs that will be detected in her bloodstream, and rape her. The perfect crime! It is difficult to see how it could possibly backfire...

- ...and it doesn't since everyone is far too stupid to call the police, so now he can continue raping. And Ume can continue having him in the same school, in case she didn't already have enough reason to hate all men forever.
Episode 5
- I think Sakurako is more or less the pinnacle of female beauty. Shihori Kanjiya is exceptionally beautiful to begin with, but in Hanawake she really outdoes herself.

- Lol @ Shozaburo doing all that just to enter one photography contest. It would be one thing if the story established it as being really important, but it's just a spur of the moment thing that doesn't appear to be of any real consequence. He could just enter some other competition and it wouldn't make any difference. I guess this all just goes to show (again) what a stupid, whiny and self-centered douchebag he is. The way he occasionally stresses that Sakurako is his girlfriend, it's like he needs to convince or remind himself.

- How odd that Takemi doesn't care at all about Shozaburo trying to cheat on her sister. And then she takes him on a completely unnecessary trip to the beach (it couldn't wait? Really?) while Sakurako is waiting for him. Her characterization seems very inconsistent. Either the audience has been misled about her true nature or the writers are screwing up.
Episode 6
- Takemi is finally confronted about her behavior, and her reaction is "ololol whatever." No concern whatsoever for her sister. And she even thinks their mother would have approved of her behavior, a laughable assertion that's completely contradicted by prior events. The only justification for her behavior that I can think of is that Shozaburo is a scumbag and therefore it would be for the best if he broke up with Sakurako. But I don't think that has even occured to Takemi, and if it did occur to her the most obvious course of action would be to talk to Sakurako about it.

- Shozaburo's obsession with Takemi is bizarre. She's an older woman with three kids, and he seems genuinely interested in her. So does he want a family now? Because that's what he's going to get should they end up together. In that case, shouldn't he be head over heels for Sakurako instead? She obviously wants to be a housewife and is very good at being one, and she's very sweet and reliable not to mention younger and more beautiful than Takemi (I know it's a running gag that all men love Takemi, but let's get real: she isn't anywhere near that attractive).

- The theme of the show seems to be that everyone is torturing themselves by relentessly chasing after people they can't or shouldn't be with. Takemi seems to be the only exception.

- I hate it when people answer a question with "chotto." It's only marginally better than not answering at all.

- "I want to protect you." Shozaburo is such a girly man that Takemi would probably end up protecting him, not the other way around. He even says he needs Takemi so he can change. If he wants to white knight someone, Sakurako would again be the superior choice.
Episode 7
- You'd need a chainsaw to separate Sakurako from Shozaburo. But her clinginess makes some sense. Men ignore her (whereas in the real world they'd be all over her, but nevermind), and now that someone has finally shown interest she is desperate to hang on to him. She also doesn't want to lose to Takemi again, and thinks the situation is still salvageable. If women stay with men who beat them, it's hardly a stretch that Sakurako would still be onboard this sinking ship. Still, I don't know what she sees in him. He displays some very superficial "alpha" qualities, but they're not backed up by anything and he can't keep up the act consistently. Maybe it's just enough to fool Sakurako. Or maybe she has some kind of brain problem.

- At least Sakurako's co-workers say what every viewer is thinking.

- Why does the thief not dodge the cart coming towards him? It's not even funny, it's just weird and stupid.

- Finally Takemi acts like a responsible older sister and explains to Sakurako that she should dump Shozaburo for being a douchebag... but then she encourages Sakurako to become even more clingy and gives her some really terrible ideas about how relationships work. You can't take someone back, if they don't want to be with you they don't want to be with you. Takemi should know this really well.

- Finally he is getting punched in the face.

- Shozaburo is suddenly really fond of Sakurako because his first choice wasn't interested. Good thing he kept her around as a fallback position! She'll tide him over until he finds someone new to stalk. Yeah yeah, I can see where this is likely going... he saw the light and now he'll become a respectable human being and a dedicated family man. Because that's how things tend to work in dorama land.
Episode 8
- I am shocked by how easily Takemi's children' accept their father leaving them.

- The amusement park is playing Chocolate Disco and Katsuhiko is a huge sissy.

- What's that? Shozaburo is back to his old ways? Well I never! Ok, I was kind of expecting him to change. Not because it's consistent with his characterization, but because it's something that would happen in a dorama. Well, I'm sure Sakurako still won't mind...

- ... and sure enough, she doesn't. Her blind devotion to Shozaburo is sick. It's certainly not unreasonable to call her crazy, though the funny thing is that if she was with some decent guy there would be nothing odd about her behavior. Or rather, she would not engage in odd behavior. But the story doesn't really give any compelling reason for her behavior, it's not like Shozaburo is some great catch or there's anything special about their relationship. "She's nuts!" is what the script writers must have decided. Ho hum.

- "I don't have beauty or sex appeal or talent." Christ, this show really does take place in some strange alternate universe. Or maybe Kanjiya was miscast and the role should have gone to someone who looks plain.

- So Shozaburo really does want a family. Again, what is wrong with Sakurako? You could not possibly ask for a better wife to start a family with.

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Post by bluedarkness12 » Sep 13th, '11, 01:27

After seeing ep 9 subbed:
I have concluded that Sakurako is a level 5 clinger. That is pretty unattractive. Its to the point I dont even blame Shozaburo anymore with trying to hook up with her sis (even tho that is just as bad). Takemi's first child is pretty cute kid tho, I prefer her to have more screen time even though she is a lil kid lol. It sucked that the other kids were picking on her. If the father ends up dying, I wouldnt mind it happening in regards to the story bc I am getting kind of bored since they kinda of stop focusing on Ume and Fujiko and it could add some to the plot.

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Post by SSpiegel » Sep 13th, '11, 02:10

bluedarkness12 wrote:After seeing ep 9 subbed:
I have concluded that Sakurako is a level 5 clinger. That is pretty unattractive. Its to the point I dont even blame Shozaburo anymore with trying to hook up with her sis (even tho that is just as bad).
Agreed. I strongly dislike clingy people, and those who force the responsibility for their own happiness on someone else's shoulders. No, you're not gonna die without the person you love. Life is what you make of it.
And since this is drama la la land, I'm even ok with Photographer trying to get together with Takemi. What I don't like is this drama screwing everyone over. Everyone keeps playing with each other's feelings and no one's being honest. I'm not sure if they're just proud or plain stupid, but if this continues, no one will be happy in the end.

The preview of episode 10 did have Sakurako telling Photographer "please break up with me", but since they showed that in a preview, it could be anything. Might be taken totally out of context and doesn't actually mean that she finally came to her senses. But here's to hoping!
Am I a total a**hole if I don't really care what happens to 90% of the characters in this drama? I don't even know... just end already.

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Post by bluedarkness12 » Sep 13th, '11, 03:21

SSpiegel wrote:
Am I a total a**hole if I don't really care what happens to 90% of the characters in this drama? I don't even know... just end already.
I feel the same way. I was about to drop the series all together until I saw ep 9. It saved the series for me just a lil bit that I might as well just finished it. My favorite chars by default are takemi's kids bc they r the only ones who dont talk **** behind anyone's back (every other char has more than 3 times).

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 13th, '11, 07:50

Episode 9
- Oh yeah... she's definitely crazy in the coconut. I would still marry her though.

- I'm starting to wonder if Takemi actually hates Sakurako for some reason. She's always causing her trouble and never takes her problems seriously. And when she gave her some "advice" she actually made her craziness even worse. Like some kind of anti-psychiatrist.

- Shozaburo's IQ must be well below 100. Yeah dude, who needs money when you have a wife and three kids?

- Takemi was caught cheating and she thinks she's the real victim. What's very problematic about her character is that the show presents her as some kind of wacky heroine, when in fact many of her actions are selfish, hypocritical, cruel and stupid, with her treatment of Sakurako being a prime example. The conflict between how the show wants you to see her and what she's actually like makes her seem inconsistent rather than three-dimensional. There's the general feeling that you're supposed to root for her and that she's supposed to be nearly always right.

- The conversations between Fujiko and Akimoto are repetitive and boring and seem to never go anywhere.

- Takemi's monologue doesn't mean anything. She has a history of lying, going back on her word and contradicting herself. But the music is telling me how to feel. It's telling me that Takemi is being sincere... when there's actually no reason to believe that's the case.

- Again with the goddamn music when otoosan makes his request to Shozaburo. I don't think this is touching or poignant at all, I think his request is pathetic and insane and guaranteed to end in tears sooner or later. It's a misguided attempt to prevent what happened with his wife, but ironically it'll almost certainly end up causing the same thing to Sakurako. Has it not occured to anyone to sit Sakurako down and actually talk to her? I suppose that would make too much sense. Well don't come crying to me when she kills herself.

- Brain tumor. He dies. Calling it now.

- ^ Oh, a hemorrhage. I still say he dies. How could they miss the opportunity to have a tearful, melodramatic scene around his deathbed? It would also make sense since his character arc seems done and he has redeemed himself or something like that. He no longer serves a purpose in the story, except maybe to impart some final wisdom and reconcile with Sakurako before kicking the bucket. And then it'll be time to turn on the faucets.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 13th, '11, 19:47

^
Just reading your observations (which are very entertaining lol) makes me don't even wanna finish the show. There's too many dramas that lacked inconsistency and pretty much everything you mentioned that just... makes me sooo arrrgh!! But yeah they were suppose to portray Takemi as some 'demon woman' like she's the devil herself..... but how so? That was the first thing I've noticed since the beginning of the show. I thought she would be similar to Yamada Yuu's character (which even though was flat in a way she stayed true to her role and there was no changes or oddness. Her role was to be well, a b*tch and that was the comedy of it. ^^;) But I guess since this drama is suppose to be 'serious' (though so unrealistic) I guess the characters are suppose to have some kinda... 'change' or resolution or something.. I dunno.... Buit I'm glad I saw ohitorisama first instead of this because I would've totally disliked Alisa ^^;;

And the two other sisters... (the oldest and youngest) just... gets pushed out the way huh ;_;? This show tries too hard to be funny, serious, light-hearted, and everything else but that's why it has so many flaws... wow.. it's like Bloody Monday (even though they have many of the same cast) because that show... lol it makes me you wanna yell at those 'smart, intelligent' third-eye people... Well... I'll probably post again after I see eppy 9 ^^;

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Post by antspace » Sep 13th, '11, 20:35

Sorry Lollercopter... Can't really agree with an important part of your critique, though i agree with most of it :-)

- marrying Takemi seems a good idea. I hope you didn´t mean marrying Sakurako : P
- I think Takemi does everything in her might to save Sakurako.
- I don't think Takemi's actions are selfish. She's about the only character which isn't hypocritical. She tries to always be straightforward, but is not always succeeding. In this episode she recognised that she's falling for shozaburo, but fighting for every inch of her freedom/ her right to make her own decisions. She's only human though, and lost control in a weak moment. Well, who hasn't. I believe her and am rooting for her : )
- agree, but rooting for them too.
- agree much! How to keep lying for a lifetime, lesson 1 : (
- mmm... and still begging for shozaburo to lie to Sakurako : (
- I hope you are wrong on this one : P
This whole series started of well, but became more incredulous by the episode.The characters don't always feel real. The theme seems to be human weakness. Well, people are weak... Even Takemi falls to pieces at one point. I think some of the characters are too inconsistent though. Especially the Otou sans and Sakurako are too pathetic : ( .... I think.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 13th, '11, 20:42

^ I think he meant well at least marrying Kanjiya Shihori who plays Sakurako ^^;; (I'm guessing he's a fan of her)

Human weakness.. hm.. seems to be more about human selfishness if anything.. so if selfishness = weakness, I agree then! Lol. (they're really showing all of the characters pathetic-ness though... it's so overshadowed by any kinda redeeming qualities they may have you really can't help but to look at their faults in a negative light because.. it's too over the place...)

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Post by antspace » Sep 13th, '11, 20:48

In that sense the series is interesting, because I've never seen so many negative types in a series. It's hard to sympathise with anyone allmost. Yes, the children and in some way Takemi, because she keeps trying. Other than that everyone seems to be corrupted :P

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Post by SSpiegel » Sep 13th, '11, 21:39

I've honestly liked Takemi all through the series. I think she has a bit of a strange way of conveying her thoughts and feelings to others and she's often misunderstood. But many people, especially Sakurako, doesn't even try to understand her. To most men she's just a beautiful face and body, and to most women a threat and an enemy. She does use her looks a lot to her advantage, but it doesn't make her a bad person in my eyes. I think she still has a great sense of right and wrong, and she's always trying to do the right thing, even if it sometimes creates a bit of havoc. She's not perfect, of course, but I do think she's a likeable person.
Last edited by SSpiegel on Sep 19th, '11, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 13th, '11, 22:51

Just finished eppy 9...

*shakes head*
Eh... yeah... that begging thing... see, at least the difference between the dad and Shou is that the dad (I'm guessing to be true...) was in love with mama and didn't have some other woman on the side when they first married. Shou, ISN'T married... No papers were turned in.. and... obviously he's not in love with her as the dad was in love with mama.. so omg why even beg him to lie? Selfish feelings for a selfish daughter... go tell him to break up with her! Like geez they really think what Sakurako is thinking/doing is just fine and dandy? Shoul better leave that crazy dad & daughter alone.... (these dramas make it seem liek there's no one else in the whole wide world that can't be with these two...

Gotta love how these dramas have to outta nowhere make something wrong with a person. Like the dad just suddenly having head problems within the same episode he collapsed. (I just get a bit bothered when dramas do that -__- That's how Shiroi Haru went from really being a great drama to just.. bad because of the awful ending they did for it.... what a way to ruin a show ._.)

But the shou/Saku relationship I pretty much blame them and the circumstances that happened for them to end up in a situation like that. She just.. suddenly decided to move in there only because she didn't wanna be under the same roof as papa. Then she got comfortable in playing Ms Wifey.. not even sure if the guy is even all that serious about her... They're like the prime example of a bad relationship...

Poor Ume and Fujiko... They're so unimportant... and honestly Sakurako really is too... Shou pretty much outshines her in the show. And everything now is so repetitive... (actually it's been repetitive since.. wow... the last 3-4 episodes...)
To me, Takemi is still on the inconsiderate side... no matter how much of a right/wrong justice-like character she's suppose to be I feel as though she gets away with certain things because of her looks or her strong-appearing character... But eh... if she doesn't like being misunderstood (I think she just accepts the fact that she is) then she should be clear. She can be straight-forward other times... (but that's if it really bothers her) But as for the Shou thing... geez I dunno he's just selfish & stubborn.. she can say "I'm lesbian" and he's still be all like "But I know you're the one for me!!! Even if you like girls... deep deeeeeep down we're soulmates!!!!" (people are just obsessive in this show)

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 14th, '11, 08:45

«minah» wrote:This show tries too hard to be funny, serious, light-hearted, and everything else but that's why it has so many flaws...
The problem is that the show is entirely tone deaf.
Like, in episode 6 when Sakurako talks to Takemi about her beach trip, the scene is perfectly serious except for the comedic music which is telling the viewer that Takemi is up to some wacky antics again. It's almost like the scene was intended to be serious but during post-production they decided they want it to be comedic after all. And then the end of the scene becomes explicitly comic with all the talk about Takemi being a cyborg, as if Sakurako's plight was now really intended to be funny. And I guess it could be funny if it had been consistently portrayed as funny from the start. But it wasn't.
antspace wrote:Sorry Lollercopter... Can't really agree with an important part of your critique, though i agree with most of it :-)
- marrying Takemi seems a good idea. I hope you didn´t mean marrying Sakurako : P
- I think Takemi does everything in her might to save Sakurako.
- I don't think Takemi's actions are selfish. She's about the only character which isn't hypocritical. She tries to always be straightforward, but is not always succeeding. In this episode she recognised that she's falling for shozaburo, but fighting for every inch of her freedom/ her right to make her own decisions. She's only human though, and lost control in a weak moment. Well, who hasn't. I believe her and am rooting for her : )
- agree, but rooting for them too.
- agree much! How to keep lying for a lifetime, lesson 1 : (
- mmm... and still begging for shozaburo to lie to Sakurako : (
- I hope you are wrong on this one : P
I meant Sakurako. She's definitely crazy, but her craziness comes from her refusal to leave Shozaburo no matter how much he neglects, hurts and double times her. If she was with someone who actually loves her, she would just seem like a very devoted girlfriend/wife.

Takemi took Shozaburo for a trip to the beach for no real reason while Sakurako was twiddling her thumbs at home. Even if Takemi didn't know for sure that they had plans together, she should have assumed as much or at least concluded that she has no reason to go frolicking with Shozaburo. She didn't even confront him about cheating on Sakurako, or show any concern for her. When Sakurako told her she knows about their beach trip, Takemi was completely indifferent towards her and deliberately gave her the impression that they were doing something other than photography. Later, when Sakurako caught them in the act, Takemi gave her the lamest excuse of the century, assuming that Sakurako is stupid and naive enough to believe it. And if she isn't... well hey, who cares. And, as I explained earlier, when she finally gave her some advice it was really terrible advice that just made the situation worse. I wouldn't be surprised if that was deliberate too.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 14th, '11, 14:06

^
Yeah I was so pissed when Takemi gave her that excuse... and for her to do so, it means that Sakurako is plainly naive/stupid... and Shou & Takemi think she is too >_> (He didn't try to say something else...) I mean seriously?! I bet they can be having sex and Takemi will say "Oh this idiot just fell on top of me while I was trying to change my clothes... and kept trying to get off but kept falling." Sakurako: "Oh... wow he's so clumsy..." -___- I always hate it when people say "stay away from xx...." Why shouldn't they? Go tell your person to stay away from them. People always get mad at the wrong person...
Well... Sakurako is te exact arch-type character I seriously can't staaaaaaaand in anime/manga/whatever... whenever I see someone like that in an anime/manga I get so annoyed but no one in the story ever thinks of them as being obsessive... it's called "dedication.' -__-

I haven't really payed too much attention to the music... the characters occupy my mind a lot & seeing them do stupid stuff is enough to get me distracted from the music lol[/spoiler]

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Post by Shoed » Sep 15th, '11, 17:56

Woah, essay ahead.

I like this drama. It has me wanting to know what happens next episode (actually, it's more like wanting to know what happens to Takemi next episode). Despite my aversion to romance/family/siblings-fighting-over-1-person type of dramas, I'm enjoying this one and attempting to ignore the series' long long list of flaws.

Takemi is the main draw of the drama, she's quite unrealistic yet this is what makes her (and the show) so entertaining. Sakurako needs to grow a spine - I resisted the urge to jump into the screen and squeeze some sense into her... by now I gave up about her though :lol:
I'm split about Takemi's actions. Part of me thinks that
1. she should be a little more serious sometimes, she's not helping herself by seeming to take every single thing as a joke. Then again, this could have been her young self's way of protecting herself and she couldn't get rid of this habit.

2. she should think before she leap. Going to a beach at night with her not-on-such-good-term-sister's boyfriend? Really? Yes she's carefree, wild spirit etc but knowing how Sakurako isn't that fond of her, it was an unwise decision. She practically set herself up for misunderstandings.
As for episode 9,
I was severely disappointed by Miyashita's & Ayako's new revelation. Yamane & Takemi were cute together and their reunion will most likely happen if not for Ayako, but I didn't want the "Ayako is a bad guy and so Yamane is free to leave her" type of situation in order for Takemi & Yamane to progress.

It would have been better if Yamane really had to choose between both of them - I guess I'm evil this way.

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Post by GaussAlgorithmus » Sep 15th, '11, 23:55

Am I the only one, that thinks that this dorama is a parody? No, seriously, just think about it:

In Jdramas, characters sometimes act totally stupid or over the top, just for, well, creating "more drama". But in this one, it's ridiculous! Everything is so unrealistic, that it is ridicuouls.

General setting:
a) The mother going to france because she was betrayed, getting in an acciden, leaving with an undetected injury and dying later in Japan. I mean, waht are the odds?
b) The complete familiy totally blaming the father for it and kicking him out of the house. What? I mean, if just one of them would be so extremely angry at him, ok...but ALL of them?

Characters:
c) Ume
She is as blank as a piece of paper. Up until now, I don't even see, why she is there, she actually has no purpose in the drama. And though I don't hate the actress, I still think she is one of the biggest misscasts I'Ve ever seen in a drama! In the most cases, the role and the actor have about the same age, which I really like. I think it's stupid, to cast some 22 year old woman to play a High School student like in American movies. But W T F, who did cast Umes actress? Her role is 19, she is 17 but looks like 15...
Why couldn't her character just be a High School student? Her only purpose is to have a crush on a senpai, that would'Ve worked in High School too, actually, I think it would work even better. Why? Because in High School, you are more prone to act like she does, it would be so much more believable.

d) Takemis ex.
Again, a totally wtf character. Why is he marrying his secretary? Just because she's pregnant? He could just say "Oh well, better get an abortion, but if you don't want to, I will pay alimony". *bam* Problem solved. But no, he's like a total p***y though beeing a successfull compony CEO. It's not like it seems, that Takemi would not reconsider getting together with him. So...having him try more would be more realistic I think.

e) Sakurako
What's there to say? She is so clingy, I would even call it "obsessed" with her boyfriend. Even if he were not in love with Takemi, I wouldn't wonder, if he just ran away saying something like "Go to a psychologist, you clingy freak!". She is soooo naive and sooooo stupid. She must have an IQ of 50. I mean, there is the saying "a little stupid can be cute", but this is waaaaaay to stupid and naive. It just HURTS! I'm literally facepalming at nearly everything she does.

d) Shozaburo
He's just an ass. If you just want to be together with a girl/boy just for having some fun, taht's fine with me...but only, if you TELL THE OTHER PARTY! Don't act like you consider marriage, if you don't love Sakurako and even worse, have the hots for her sister. That's just totally cruel. If he had told her much earlier "Sorry, I just wanted to have fun" all this "Be together with me, or I will kill myself" stuff would not have come up. Besides that, he could have been much more honest with Takemi from the beginning.

e) The Father
Well, not so much to say about him, he wasn't in the show formost of the time. I still think he's punished to much for cheating (he's allowed to do so, because "He's got a Jaaaaaag" *hidden TopGear joke* ;)). But, asking Shozaburo to mary his doughter, even if he knows he doesn'T love her? HOW WILL THAT MAKE HER HAPPY? It's just postponing the inevitable. If one marries someone, who doesn'T love one, one will be betrayed and will get a divorce at some point. Period! Why even CONSIDERING doing this to the his own daughter? He must be totally mental, if he thinks, that this would make her happy. And you still have to consider Shozaburo, even if he is an ass. You can't go to someone saying "Marry my daughter, even if you don't want to. If you don'T she'll kill herself, and then I will kill you". Seriously father, use that time and go to a psychiatrist with your daughter...she needs it!

f) Takemi
I won't go into detail with her, because honestly, I've already forgotten so much about her doings, but there is one thing that really bugs me:

What kind of sister is she? She says, that to her family is the most important thing. Why, why does she want HER SISTER to be together with someone who DOESN'T LOVE her? Why? Does she think too, that this makes her happy? Really? What's wrong with this family? If I had a brother and his girlfrind would really try to hit on me, I would be like "Dude, your girlfriend is totally hitting on me, get rid of her, because sooner or later she will hit on another guy and break your heart!". Even if my brother were sad about this and maybe angry at me in the first moment, it still would be the right thing to do in the long run. Especially, if you're considering marriage. -_-'
Why doesn't Takemi doe something like this? Yes, it would be a blow to Sakurako, but this blow will hit her in the future. Maybe not now, but after a year or 5 of marriage, when he's finally fed up.

g) Fujiko
To me, she is the only character that somehow feels real, the only one that seems sort of "normal". But...that's it. She too isn't that important, just like Ume. As the oldest sister, her role should have been bigger.

If I consider all these points, I really come to the conclusion, taht all this is just a parody, that uses every jdrama cliché and exaggerates it beyond everything, thats even slightly realistic.


I guess, now you're thinking "Wow, dude, why do you watch this if you hate it so much? Maybe YOU should see the psychologist". Well, to be honest, there are three reasons for me to watch it to the end

a) There are just one or two episodes left. I don't like quitting shot before the finish ;)
b) I just want to know, how this ends. Not because I care about the characters, but because I want to see how ridiculously it'll ge in the end.
c) I like Kanjiya Shihori, the actress of Sakurako, she's quite cute in a very special way. :p


So, for now, I hope I haven't forgotten anything.


PS: Please excuse my bad spelling and grammar. This is probly the wirst longer text I've written in the English language for at least 5 years.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 16th, '11, 02:09

^
I dunno... a parody is something like Yuusha... that's an obvious parody. This? Yeah um.. I think they're being serious >_> It's not the first time a drama had characters such as these but they're all bunch up together in one show. I really don't think it's a parody though ;_; Well.. I guess... parodies don't.... have to be funny? But still if this was a parody it's a horrible one to make people watch through this nonsense ><! (this show is more of a mess than Last Friends.... it really didn't know what kinda direction it wanted to head in... same with hard to say I love you... omg those two shows were bad -__- ) Similar reason like yours, I'm only gonna finish it since there's like.. a couple more eppys left...

But yeah I dunno... I just see it as one of those shows that... it had some type of potential (not a lot compared to Last Friends & Hard to Say I Love You) but it could have went in a different direction than this... like some other mishaps with this family but when you think about it.... it's like... what's the point of this show? What's the message they're trying to get across? (for me it's not to become like those sisters or be with a dude who seriously doesn't like me lol but I already knew that)

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Post by antspace » Sep 17th, '11, 01:10

Somehow I can go with the over the top parody : ) I mean, it started of like a silly manga with the marriage of Takemi and all. Only when the mother died it turned serious. After that it turned into an emotional mess, but still quite funny at times. There are so many serious moments that it gets confusing though. But then Takemi's ex-husband makes such a big mess that it cannot be taken seriously again :P The sisters' father seemed to be alright again and then he does the stupid speech and starts dying. It all seems sooo silly : ) It must be a parody in a non Yuusha way :P

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Post by emma-ba » Sep 18th, '11, 09:21

GaussAlgorithmus wrote:Am I the only one, that thinks that this dorama is a parody? No, seriously, just think about it:

In Jdramas, characters sometimes act totally stupid or over the top, just for, well, creating "more drama". But in this one, it's ridiculous! Everything is so unrealistic, that it is ridicuouls.
It's based on a manga so it's probably not a parody, unless the manga itself is a parody but I haven't read that anywhere.

I completely gave up on this drama. I would alternately be furious at the characters' lack of empathy and then despair at their stupidity.

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 19th, '11, 15:10

Episode 10:
- Sakurako seems like she might be finally snapping out of it.

- Are we really not getting a tearful death scene? Well... maybe we can have one later. Otousan must be too tired now. I'd be tired too.

- I think the realism of Shozaburo's dream could have been enhanced by making him naked. I'm naked in my dreams pretty often. It's awkward though.

- Yes, I'd say it was about time somebody slapped Takemi.

- Don't worry about your, uh, artwork, Ume. If anyone asks why it's all messed up, tell them you're making a statement about the war in Iraq. Throw some pig blood on it too, that'll really sell it. It'll become the Guernica of the 21st century.

- Hooray, Sakurako is no longer crazy in the coconut.

- Who the hell buys an expensive house in a suburb so he can tear it down and build apartments in its place? That sounds insanely cost-ineffective.

- My interpretation of Ume's art installation is that it represents R'lyeh, the city of Cthulhu. Prove me wrong.

- The plot thickens and nobody cares.
emma-ba wrote:I completely gave up on this drama. I would alternately be furious at the characters' lack of empathy and then despair at their stupidity.
I would have given up too if it wasn't for Kanjiya.

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Post by fifimimi » Sep 20th, '11, 10:16

Sakurako is the most annoying character. She doesn't deserve being with anyone if she's so lack of self confidence and i would run away from anyone as clinging and pathetic as her.

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 20th, '11, 11:12

Well like I've said, the problem isn't that she is clingy, the problem is that she is clinging to the wrong person. You wouldn't notice anything if she was dating someone who loves her.

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Post by SSpiegel » Sep 20th, '11, 12:47

Cool story, bro.
I sincerely hope that the next time she stars in a drama, they'll make her character so perfect you won't have to go around defending her for no good reason.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 20th, '11, 13:18

lollercopter wrote:Well like I've said, the problem isn't that she is clingy, the problem is that she is clinging to the wrong person. You wouldn't notice anything if she was dating someone who loves her.
Yeah but her being clingy to the wrong person shows that she can get like that... so yeah... she's obsessively clingy. If someone didn't like me... then I won't force myself on them no matter how much I like them... (and if someone did like me, I still wouldn't be clingy.. it's the type of person I am) she was doing just the opposite ^^; She was being selfishly, obsessively clingy. For many people you wouldn't notice anything... because if they're not doing something, then yeah you wouldn't know ^^; But it could be because they have no reason to or that's not how they are... I think if the dude did like her back, she would still show her super clingyness just.. no one would say muuuch because she doesn't look stupid by still trying to get someone who wanna get with her sister ^^; They wouldn't say she's crazy-clingy (unless she starts getting insecure and questioned where he's been around his friends, how long, what time, who he was with blah blah blah.. or starting saying stuff like "If you weren't with me.. I'll DIE!!!" in public ^^;) so yeah.. it's still possible to show that obessiveness even with the 'right' person... but then you'll have to define the 'right' person for her (I guess someone who likes clingy people and who likes her)

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 20th, '11, 13:49

SSpiegel wrote:Cool story, bro.
I sincerely hope that the next time she stars in a drama, they'll make her character so perfect you won't have to go around defending her for no good reason.
What I said in my previous post is entirely true, and you're just butthurt because you can't refute it.

I've also said many times now that Sakurako is crazy and naive and makes stupid decisions.
«minah» wrote:Yeah but her being clingy to the wrong person shows that she can get like that... so yeah... she's obsessively clingy.
You're only aware of it because it happened. Had Sakurako fallen for someone else instead, the thing with Shozaburo would never have happened and you would have no idea that she's able to obsessively cling to the wrong man. It's not like her behavior was predictable based on anything she did prior to meeting Shozaburo, or even shortly afterwards. She didn't even make the first move, and the only reason they ended up together was because she was drunk.

I don't see anything about her behavior that would be objectionable in a different context. The entire issue is that her behavior is directed at the wrong man, and not that her behavior is inherently bad.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 20th, '11, 16:06

Clingy people can still show clingyness even if it was the right person... but that's up to who exactly would be the 'right' person to her (and if they don't mind it) It was just shown in a bad way because the guy didn't like her so of course many people wouldn't like the strong obsessive attachment she had... but if she fell for the right person, she could've still had been like that, but just not shown in a crazy-like kinda way. (but we would have to have a re-telling of the story) So... really, she could've still been obsessively clingy had that scenario didn't happen and she fell for someone who liked her back.. (yeah they got together because she was drunk but I think it's more to it than that.. someone actually showed her attention and he just knew what to say/do since I'm guessing he was able to read what type of girl she is... They could've just slept together and that's it.) And then she kinda just... I don't wanna say barged in but.... in a a way it seems that way, in his home like that after what happened in the family and well pretty much settled in without really knowing if they were official and started playing wife and all that (before we really really knew who he liked... since it was kinda hinted already) so yeah that right there she was kinda being clingy/fast with it all.
Honestly though I think it's ridiculous they were still talking about marriage stuff while he's still hung up on Takemi and Sakurako doesn't trust him and they were like what? Dating for a few mere months? Relationship was going ridiculously fast without anyone trying to sit down and have a serious conversation about it all. One thing I never liked about j-dramas was the fast approach to marriage... not like they have to wait years but certainly shouldn't date someone they like for a few months while they were JUST hitting on your siblings and then bring up marriage. Omiai I have no problem with since they're dating in hopes of getting married to that person... those two and others... met at a bar, had sex, she fell for him because he said some nice words and really she doesn't know much about him and he hits on her sister... and still talk about marriage as if none of that stuff happened after mere months... yeah ok save the troubles and just don't get married.

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Post by bluedarkness12 » Sep 21st, '11, 00:26

I just saw the last ep in raw form bc at this point I just wanted to finish this series and be done with it.
It would have been better if Sakurako and Sho just didnt end up together at all in the future. You see them meet up later on in their lives after she breaks it off with them and it looks like they will make it work. Them not being together at all could have gave some spice to this drama for me bc I lost my interest a few eps back but the ideas I have dont exist in a jdrama. My favorite characters were the kids bc I did not care about the other characters maybe except for Takemi in regards she was the only thing that kept things interesting. I should have probably just dropped this drama back when I dropped Hana Kimi but w/e its over with. I wonder how the actual manga is because Im pretty sure I would have like it better than this

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 21st, '11, 00:30

I guess she's more clingy than the average woman, but not excessively so. I just don't see anything about her behavior that would be unpleasant to someone who's compatible with her. Sakurako settling in rather quickly was a combination of naivety, things moving too fast, the unexpected conflict with her father, and Shozaburo leading her on.

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Post by londonsoul » Sep 21st, '11, 02:27

i watched it to the end. ok drama. this season has been so so boring

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Post by GaussAlgorithmus » Sep 21st, '11, 03:27

Oh dear, it was nearly another "typically" episode of this dorama. Not much to say...besides:
- I really, REALLY had to laugh at the moment, when Fujiko drops the papers (*dramatic music*, starts to pick them up (*music stops*) and then picks up the photo: *EXTREME dramatic music starts*. That was so unbelievably funny. :D
- Father making lame jokes about having lost his memory right when he WAKES UP AFTER AN EMERGENCY BRAIN SURGERY! W T F ?
- "Money scam plot", are people really so stupid to fall for these "you''ll get 50% interest!" scams?
- "We have to pay for medical bills and rehabilitation plot", damn I'm happy that I live in a country where the chances of gettnig such a problem approaches zero
- Umes "art"..."ART"...no further commentary here
- Fujiko, like everyone else, does not tell SAkurako about her "mentally cheating" boyfriend. I think, the family just hates this girl and bullied her for years. That's why shes so clingy. Still, I can somehow accept, that Fujiko didn't say anything because she had too much **** to worry about and probably didn't want to be disturbed selling the house and saving her father from prison because her sister slit her wrists. Gee, that would've been an aditional funeral to pay and organise.
- "Second to last epsido plot emerging" took place: Something between Yamanes partner and Yamanes future wife.
lollercopter wrote:I would have given up too if it wasn't for Kanjiya.
Same here.

londonsoul wrote: this season has been so so boring
It kind of was boring. Hanawake was really bad, Zenkai Girl was "ok" but extremely forseeable, Don Quixote was "ok" too but (for my taste) lacked a real plot and because I'm not into all the crime doramas (they have to be really good or special for me linking them), it really was a quite boring season. I haven't keept up with IS though, so I still have some hopes here.

For the next season, I spoted some dorama that sound interesting...I hope that they don't only sound but actually are interesting.

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Post by Anon. » Sep 25th, '11, 13:45

I'm entering in this discussion a little late...

Honestly, I watch a lot of jdramas; well, at least I used to. This season was pretty bad for me as well, with the exception of three, for a moment, the series being: Bull Doctor, Jiu, and Hanawake no Yon Shimai.

The first one went from 'acceptable to I'm not watching anymore' the episode before the finale. Jiu, I gave up after the third episode.

And now this one....I really, really liked this drama, right up until they
killed the wife
back in what, episode 3? I'm not sure if that's really a spoiler anymore. But I thought it came out of nowhere and added unnecessary melodrama. Halfway through episode 4 I just quit. But I liked the series in the start, so I started previewing the spoiler comments to see if I should start watching again. Guess not. D: 'specially if Sakurako starts becoming more clingy that she was.

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Post by «minah» » Sep 25th, '11, 20:11

^
Lol! That' how I felt too.. it was starting out alright until they did that in eppy 3.. it was like.. "really...? Ugh....." so yeah. I liked a few series this season (Tempest A LOT, IS, Host Club, Soredemo Ikite Yuku, Don Quixote and Piece Vote when I was able to see it ;_;) and some series I thought were not that super special.. already guessed the atmosphere of the show... the formula and the characters were kinda predictable with chemistry not too impressive (Don Quixote kinda fits in this category but I looved the chemistry of Sabashima & Shirota ^__^ Shouta is awesome~) But yeah this series... it could've been a lot better had it went in a different direction or even tweaked some of its characters/scenarios a bit... well.. gonna watch the finale soon... Hope I can read some spoilers of it before I doooo (so I know what to expect.. I love spoilers ^^)

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Post by GaussAlgorithmus » Sep 25th, '11, 20:14

Not much to say about the last episode:
- Why didn't they ask him to buy the house for them in the first place? It would've been the first thing I had done.
- Why did Fujiko quit her job? That is so stupid, that it actually ruins the only character that was believable in the first place.
- I can't believe photographer Guy and Sakuraku BECAME A COUPLE IN THE END AGAIN. W T F ?
- A letter from the mother in the end that she wrote, just in case shie would die...what actually happend shortly afterwards. -_-'

At least, there are two funny scenes in the last episode:
The one, where the rich ex-husband runs towards Takemi to hug her and then changes course to vomit. Her face was priceless. :D
I liked Sakurakos "ohoho" sound when she was hugged by Takemis children, it sounded quite cute. :p
And now, after this is over, I'm of praying for better autumn doramas. ;)

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Post by lollercopter » Sep 25th, '11, 22:29

Episode 11:
- Has Takemi ever considered what she's going to do when she's too old to attract men?

- Shozaburo is sad because now he'll have to cook and clean by himself. Awww... :(

- The subplots of Ume and Fujiko are really boring and unnecessary.

- I like how the problem of getting to Tokyo in a few minutes is solved by teleporting the characters there. That really is what happened, because the journey would have taken several hours otherwise. There's no explanation that doesn't involve science fiction. Really lazy writing.

- Takemi's antics were amusing at first, but now they're just tiresome. Her whole purpose is to insert herself into situations and then be really smug and self-righteous about something.

- "Someone who understands your good points aside from just your looks showed up." Is Takemi really referring to Shozaburo? She should know better than anyone how little he cares about Sakurako. To him she's just an easy lay and a free housemaid.

- Fujiko decides to leave her job as the chief editor of a successful magazine so she can pursue a man who keeps running away from her? Yeah, ok. Why not.

- Sakurako took Shozaburo back because that's the formula; if you break up you have to get together by the end of the story. That's really the only thing that can explain this, because the story never gave Sakurako any compelling reason to be so infatuated with Shozaburo, and certainly even less of a reason to get back together with him. What makes it worse is that it's presented as a happy ending when it quite clearly isn't one.
Not a good drama. The story is unfocused and has too much dead weight, and there's constantly a dissonance between what's happening and what the show wants you to think is happening. The characters are mostly stupid, unlikeable and/or unnecessary. Again, if I wasn't such a fan of Kanjiya I would have dropped this a long time ago.

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Post by GaussAlgorithmus » Sep 26th, '11, 03:39

lollercopter wrote:Again, if I wasn't such a fan of Kanjiya I would have dropped this a long time ago.
Like I said, it's the same with me. I think this one was so bad, that I won't even archive it on my external HDD because I know, that a) I'll never want to see it again and b) and won't recommend it to someone.

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Post by antspace » Sep 26th, '11, 17:33

Jeez, I can only join the choir ; ) This really wasn't very good...
The ending was such an unbelievable suckfest, that I found it hard to finish (and I've watched some really bad dorama's to the end)
I really hated the fatherly advice to Shozaburo earlier to keep lying to the end: That was some pretty damn stupid advice : P This father cheated on his wife, made enough debt to destroy his families life and still it's not enough!
How the hell does someone like that stays credible to the end. I really wanted retribution!
How did Takemi's ex become the hero of the series after being such a spineless B*tard! I felt like throwing my persocom out of the bloody window! Then Shozaburo himself, how did he come to realize that Sakurako was the love of his life! He wasn't the least bit interested in her during 99% of this series! The cynical remarks in earlier posts about him missing a maid and someone to warm the bed are not out of place here. The only positive thing I can say about this series is that from the beginning all the men in this story were complete idiots, and that they stayed consistantly stupid. The women in this series should have chucked the whole bunch in the toilet and flushed them!
I must compliment the subber though, for finishing this one. The subs were quite good, so Kudo's for Nakedshige!

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Post by «minah» » Sep 28th, '11, 15:26

Hm... the only part I liked about the ending was everyone being at home again
Fujiko is really a stalker... and honestly comes off as really desperate.. maybe more so than Sakurako lol

Takemi can probably sell tissues and still make a bundle for being 'hot.' (I like Alisa but.. I dunno wasn't crazy about her in this role.. plus she looked too old.

Sakurako all of sudden changed a whole 180 from acting like wifey to being a business woman. We all knew she wanted him to call her name when she walked away (bet she was waiting for it lol) Still even to the end I don't like her

Ume was almost useless in this series... she was trying to defend Takemi and gets shot down.. .she got shot down with the dude but then he finally likes her and she's like "Well... my job is here is done.. PEACE!" Really the show should've been called like "Our Home" or "How my second oldest Sister tries to steal my man even though he was clearly hitting on her first."

Shou.. ugh... Really can't stand him.. so now it has to be Sakurako? Get outta here.. only because you lost someone to cook for you and basically be your lap dog (seriously... she was just a suck up and pretty much praised everything he did because he did it. He just liked that attention & service >_> What a really selfish man

Papa... first he couldn't talk correctly due to the hemorrhage stroke thingy.. now he was able to say that line to Takemi clearly? I dunno wasn't crazy for him... esp to have favs with his daughters.. guess it's natural but man he doesn't go out the way to tell Takemi's husbands to make her happy & beg. I almost thought he was ok until he sided with Sakurako & begged Shou (despite Papa's cheating)

Ume's crush.. he's so boring... ;_;

2nd Husband... I dunno he's kinda dumb too. I mean really gonna dtich your kids because your wife says so? And he's a president, right? He really shouldn't just ditch work to look for his ex-wife.. esp if he's married and his wife already made clear she doesn't really want him involved with that family anymore (I mean.. he didn't know he was being used so... yeah... from that perspective really I don't think he should've went off like that then took the whole day off)

Not much to say about the rest of the cast....
This was a messy drama that finally came to an end ;_;

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Post by «minah» » Oct 12th, '11, 01:03

So it took that Yamashita & Ryo withdrawl from NewS to make me realize WHY Shou was ALL over this drama.... he's played by a frickin Johnny -___- *had no idea he was a NewS member* so.... yeah... now it kinda makes sense why his character was the way he was... to give him more screen time in some way... even if it meant being a big douche.

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Post by curlywurly » Oct 28th, '11, 09:59

Jesus, this drama suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked!

As the episodes progressed, just kept asking myself why, why, why??

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