RECOMMENDED/FAVORITE KDRAMAS (ask for suggestions here)

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 21st, '11, 18:01

I usually do not watch long Kdramas 30+ episodes, but I was lured into "Ojakgyo Brothers" by actors I like and it paid off, big time. 50 episodes and we are awaiting eps 41 and 42 this weekend (XMAS). Great characters and not too dragging (it is TV after all), It has been #1 in Korea since ep 3. This would be a good time to start watching as the subtitles are good up to ep 32 and the show is soon starting into it's cresendo.
I started with "Smile, You" and liked that, but it had already finished and all the subtitles were done. This is different and it makes the weekend take even longer to get to. So either start now or wait a bit more. It is worth it, so far (you never know with KDrama).

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 21st, '11, 20:41

We all know the kdramas with the scene, where the mother-on-law(or the father or the brother or the grandfather or the ex) comes to the female lead and tells her, that she should break up with her son or he won't have a future. The most common reaction is, that the female lead breaks up with the male lead and (at least tries) vanishes, without telling the reason. What I'm looking for is a drama, where the female lead says something among the lines of :"And?...We are happy i won't break up with him and shut the f**k up." The only one which is more or less similar to what i want is SG (but then again, in the end she tries to break up).

The second kind of dramas i'm looking for is, where the girl ends up with the nice guy(not necessary the second lead) and not with the jerk. There are a few of them, which i know of like
-That Fool
-Fantasy Couple(ok she is the jerk in this one, so it doesn't really count)
-Take Care of Agasshi (same as Fantasy Couple)
-Vineyard Man
-Can you hear my Heart
-Star's Lover
...a few others

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 00:55

Are there any really good serious kdramas? I'm talking about excellent script/production and none of
1. cliche
2. developing way to many character paths
3. stuff for fangirls (like close-ups on guys etc..)
I think you get the jist. I'm trying to find something like kekkon dekenai/orange days. Or do these kind of things only appear in jdrama.

I can think of certain historical kdrama that have come close. Maybe jang geum. But really, I've lost my interest over the over acted, similar scripted kdramas that people drool over these days. Isn't there anything quirky and witty out there without the ****ing camera-man ditzing all over the place.

Anyone agree with me? thanks for reading anyways. No offense to anyone.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 22nd, '11, 01:53

Padam Padam is not bad, even if its fantasy, its serious fantasy and there aren't too many clichés so far.
Then theres Giant. But for this one youll need time^^. One of the very few dramas, where i would say it comes close to epic.
Then theres Thornbirds and Midas. Not everybody likes it, but its more of the serious dramas. I don't know if there are too many cliches,because i don't watch many serious dramas, so at this pint i have limited experience.
Scent of a Woman - one of my favorite dramas 2011

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 01:59

Thanks! I'll check them out and get back to you. I've seen scent of a woman. I can see how it can be someone's favorite. Even I had some guilty pleasure moments; I'm a guy, and kim sun a is eyecandy for me xD. but overall it was pretty typical and the acting was sub-par.

chikha · Post by **chikha** » Dec 22nd, '11, 05:23

Thanks for the replies I'll be downloading them now

Shindou · Post by **Shindou** » Dec 22nd, '11, 07:39

pmt wrote:Are there any really good serious kdramas? I'm talking about excellent script/production and none of
1. cliche
2. developing way to many character paths
3. stuff for fangirls (like close-ups on guys etc..)
I think you get the jist. I'm trying to find something like kekkon dekenai/orange days. Or do these kind of things only appear in jdrama.

I can think of certain historical kdrama that have come close. Maybe jang geum. But really, I've lost my interest over the over acted, similar scripted kdramas that people drool over these days. Isn't there anything quirky and witty out there without the ****ing camera-man ditzing all over the place.

Anyone agree with me? thanks for reading anyways. No offense to anyone.

I would recommend Secret Garden - script is very witty and even thought its a romantic comedy, the take is very fresh. Hyun Bin and Ha Ji Won's acting are also superb. You can check out my full review here if you don't mind spoilers (which I tried keeping as minimal as possible) http://shindou2006.blogspot.com/search/ ... t%20Garden

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 18:50

I've seen Secret Garden and it was pretty good and fun to watch, but nothing like a masterpiece. I want to look back at a show and say "that was damn good acting." EDIT. Hyun Bin's acting was actually great! Ha Ji-won didn't do anything IMO

I saw the first episode of Midas; Lee ming-jung was the only thing keeping me watching and just for her looks, her acting is terrible.
I couldn't get through Giant or Thorn Birds. A combination of generic music and an insane amount of cuts threw me off. I don't believe in comic relief either; it's more like forced humor, and it used too much after some dark scene.

Why can't someone like Chan-wook Park come to the kdrama scene and just smash all these chick flick dramas into the ground. Maybe I am missing some cultural aspect here, and that is why all these dramas are G-rated childish plays.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 22nd, '11, 18:58

There is no drama(not just k, but also from all the other countries in the world), where everybody can say, that its a masterpiece. Every drama has some scriptissues, bad actin from some actors and cliches to a certain degree. There are no "masterpieces" with perfect story/writing/acting/scrennplay/directing. So you have either to accept this and say, that some dramas are close to masterpieces, even with their weaknesses or you have to give up to look for such a drama.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 19:11

I don't agree. There are masterpieces, although yes you have to overlook some minor things. BUT some dramas have very little of these minor things. Orange days and kekkon dekenai are perfect examples, I'm sure shindou would agree. A close example is Trick, which is sort of an episodic interesting drama which I never see in kdramas although I'd like someone to prove me wrong.
Then there are always non-asian dramas or tv shows. I think they are comparable, although some people may not agree. Firefly, Battlestar galatica, game of thrones, northern exposure, pride and prejudice (95 BBC) etc..are all brilliant. But then there are always those who prefer the shitty counterparts like Fringe, and House which are terribly scripted.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 22nd, '11, 19:40

actually we said almost the same, at least our interpretation of a "realistic" masterpiece is the same. But what i meant is, that there is no drama, where 100 people out of 100 would say, its a masterpiece. Even if some people would kill me if i say it, but Star Trek is for me not a masterpiece, even though half of earths population with TVs would disagree with me. But for these people its a masterpiece.

btw. there are episodic kdramas, but if they are good, there you have to judge for yourself.
-Auction House
-Romance Zero
-Partner
-Life Special Investigation Team

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 21:22

Yeah, I understand what you are saying.
It is somewhat related to the classic, "everyone has their own opinion" argument. I hear it often. In music, movies, etc.. but I'm sick of people falling on this.
I'm sure you are not one of these people, but there are those who defend what they think is good simply by saying "haters go away" or "if you don't like it don't watch, we like it." Is this valid? because common sense, rational thinking, and intelligence tells us that trance > europe trash electro/house, sasha > tiesto, everything > beiber, and that all the republican candidates are idiots.
I think we can come to an objective conclusion that some things are better than others based on merit, effort, and other traits. I have yet to see a kdrama that shows me some ingenuity either though excellent script writing, acting, or unforced witty humor.
Let me put it this way. For almost any other entertainment I see, I can list things in the three categories of "must watch" "good" and "bad". I haven't seen a "must watch" from kdrama. I can list plenty of good kdramas, secret garden, shining inheritance, coffee prince, goong, maybe a few more I'm forgetting. And obviously this category will have a variety of different dramas for other people. Opinions differ after all. But the whole point of the "must watch" category is, everyone must watch it, it IS that good; it IS in effect, a masterpiece. Is there anything that belongs there? Just as every english film enthusiast must watch the godfather, what must I see? (lets avoid the overrated, pop-culture/mainstream advanced, Dark Knight and Inception)
Maybe I'm taking this too seriously. Some people just say **** it, I just want to relax a little and have fun watching kdrama. But I guess I take it a step further. I want something that is worth more than the time I spent watching it. Thanks for reading xD

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 22nd, '11, 21:58

Masterpieces are those that have stood the test of time.
My Name Kim Sam Soon
Coffee Prince
Full House
These dramas are still heavily downloaded or watched on streaming sites. Coffee Prince is still the most watched on Mysoju. One person (pmt) is not going to make a masterpiece, but many people, given time, will.

I think Secret Garden will eventually join the list. Just a matter of TIME.

But remember these are just TV Shows, I think some people demand or expect way more from free television.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 22:06

Interesting, that may be one interpretation. But would you say the Bible is a masterpiece just because it is the best selling book of all time? Obviously not.
Whether something is a masterpiece or not is a matter of skill, and artistry; you make it sound as if its a popularity contest. I can call Drive a masterpiece even though its been out less than a year.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 22nd, '11, 22:55

HEy the bible is a masterpiece. I have never seen elsewhere so much fantasy, sex and gore in one place (i have to hide now).

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 22nd, '11, 22:56

This is dumb, of course the bible is a masterpiece, look at all of the people who believe in all or some parts of it. You seem to think that the world centers around you, NOT. People decide. I do not like the opera Madame Butterfly, but I know it is a masterpiece so does every musician in the world. Anyway, I am done with this stupid argument, watch what you want, try JDrama if Kdrama is not to your liking. Just be lucky that you have this venue of entertainment.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 22nd, '11, 23:21

Actually you can add an further definition for masterpieces. Masterpieces are these things(i'm talking about masterpieces in general and not just in dramas), which show a new path and/or have influence on the genre of this masterpiece. The Bruce Lee movies are masterpieces, because they influenced the martial arts genre. Lord of the Rings is a masterpiece. In this context masterpiece isn't always something perfect or near perfect(like i stated before). For example I don't really like LotR (i'm talking about the books here), but i have to admit, that they influenced the fantasygenre on a big scale.
But this is just a further definition and not the only one. But this definition is the most objective one so far. because you can argue if a script bad is or if the actors good are, but you can't argue the influence of something over the the course of time. This is just my opinion, nobody has to agree. And yes i know, there is actually an official definition of "masterpiece", but i didn't want to go there.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 23:24

Your logic makes no sense. Many people believe in the bible -> therefore it is a masterpiece. How is that convincing? Maybe you don't like Madame Butterfly because you don't appreciate opera? I don't know, but if Madame Butterfly is a masterpiece then ALL people who appreciate opera will acknowledge it.
What kind of twisted logic is it to let people decide what is/isn't a masterpiece FOR you. If you are educated in the matter, you have a say-so in the matter as an individual.
You can't apply the "go watch something else if you don't like it" argument, because I like kdrama, I'm looking for something great, and you are, under my impression, throwing the, "everyone likes what they want" stance. Why the f*** do we even have a rating/rec system if you people believe that nonsense.

I am also a little offended at how you shifted this into some sort of personal attack on me. I did not imply in any way that the world was centered around me. Although that sort of language indicates that you've thrown up the white flag after running out of arguments.

@Silverman hmmm, maybe instead of masterpiece, those things would be called influential. The word master implies a degree of profoundness, and perfection.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 22nd, '11, 23:34

el_canuck, why don't you settle down and back off? PMT has his/her opinion and you have yours, but you're getting personal now. You are the one who turned this into an "argument".

And PMT, el_canuck's logic is his/her logic and they have a right to have it, even if it doesn't make sense to you. But the personal attack was uncalled for indeed. So, let it go, both of you.

As for "masterpiece", I also believe that nothing can be a true masterpiece in art and entertainment.

pmt wrote:But the whole point of the "must watch" category is, everyone must watch it, it IS that good; it IS in effect, a masterpiece. Is there anything that belongs there?

Again, nothing. Not in any entertainment. It always depends on who you ask. Even a movie like The Godfather (have not seen it) will have people that don't think it's that awesome.
My brother told me it's a good movie, but way over-hyped. There is always a different opinion. Because we are all different and how a work touches us as people always varies.

You can say which series are good and created a lot of buzz, which ones have people saying they are very good and meaningful, but those are still "among the good ones" and maybe not even that, for some.
People love 49 Days and I just find it absolutely horrible for how it manipulated viewers and dangled a carrot it was never going to give. I thought the ending was half-assed drama and attempt at poignancy.

There is no "masterpiece" in art and entertainment. It's a notion that was created by people who wanted to pass certain works as "better than the rest". As something which should awe everyone and which everyone should admire and prefer to others.
That is my opinion, at least. Some works are very good and meaningful and should be watched by everyone because of what they have to say, but they may still not be masterpieces for everyone, even if they have something poignant about them.

As for kdrama, many good ones, no "masterpieces", as nice as they are. Movies are better at being truly good. Korean dramas suffer a lot from many things. Good, fun, but nothing which would fill anyone with awe, unless they're 13 and over-emotional. So, 13.

Silverman wrote:HEy the bible is a masterpiece. I have never seen elsewhere so much fantasy, sex and gore in one place (i have to hide now).

The KCC would have so much to censor in a Bible kdrama indeed. The amount of pure crap in that book is really mind-blowing.
And no need to hide. If someone is so closed-minded they can't accept criticism on religion too, they're embarrassing their own faith.

And I also believe that "a lot of people like it" is no valid argument. People love Twilight and it's no masterpiece. It is for teen girls and all those emo.
A lot of people felt Jewish folk should be turned to soap and supported Hitler. Does that make his "work" a masterpiece? That is a scary logic indeed.

To get back to Dramaland, That Fool, Protect the Boss, The Man Who Can't Get Married, Flower Boy Ramyun Shop are some rom-coms which at least have some realistic characters and are not too riddled with cliches.
At least not annoying "dramatic" ones. They are nice series, compared to others and some of these do have nice things to say, but this is Kdrama. You don't find anything world-shattering here. Neither in Jdrama, I feel.

Although Zeni Geba was an awesome powerful series. Stories, you get better in Japan. Acting, in Korea (for the most part). It would be nice if they could learn from each other indeed.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 23:49

I surrender myself to you Orion. I was just ranting about how I hate popular things (not because they are popular, but because they are bad imo), and now I realize how useless it was. All I want is someone with my tastes to recommend me something.

49 days also failed me after an excellent premise. I thought Song Yi Kyung was a completely useless character. I was hoping that they would just cast Nam Gyu Ri as BOTH Song Yi Kyung and Ji Hyun as she is a WAY better actress than Lee Yo-won (at least in this drama). It would have been interesting to see the other actors act trying not to recognize Nam Gyu Ri as Ji Hyun. Damn I agree that was a disappointment.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 22nd, '11, 23:50

Masterpiece (or chef d'œuvre) in modern usage refers to a creation that has been given much critical praise, especially one that is considered the greatest work of a person's career or to a work of outstanding creativity, skill or workmanship (Wikipedia).
But the definitions, which were thrown into this discussion, don't exclude each other. Things which are especially good get critical praise. if they get critical praise and are liked by the masses, then they have influence. Ok i have to add, that not all "works of outstanding creativity, skill or workmanship" and critical praise have influence or liked by the masses, so there are "hidden" masterpieces without much influence. But the things, which have influence are in a lot of cases masterpieces. Yea i know, that advertisements and the people behind it can make something actual worthless into a "fake" masterpiece. So if you glue a stone on a piece of wood and do enough ads, then you can make the people believe that its a masterpiece, even if its just garbage. But i digress again.

We can get back to the topic now, because everybody has a different view on the word "masterpiece", so that we wont reach a consensus. And get to the part that pmt looks for kdramas, which are very good^^.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 22nd, '11, 23:59

The key thing is "critical praise." Critics are supposed be experts (yeah I know that's a stretch). I wouldn't trust a bunch of people who watched Disney channel all day to rate kdramas. So that's why I'm trying to raise the standards people have these days.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:00

pmt wrote:All I want is someone with my tastes to recommend me something.

No one will have exactly your tastes. I love many series my friends do and then bump into some which they love and I hate or vice versa.
But, if you can maybe say a bit more about what genre you'd like, what you value in a series, what bothers you etc, we could recommend.

After that, it's up to you to "test-drive" the shows and see if they sit well with you. All we can do is say which series we find good.

Which I did, in my previous post (updated). I recommended some rom-coms.

And yes, don't get me started on critics. Some "critics" love Lars Von Trier and all his "written from the insane asylum" artsy crap and I'd destroy every copy of his damn movies if I could find it.
Critics hate "Phantoms" and such works and it's one of the nicest horror movies I've seen. Critics can't tell their nose from the dic... hand! Art, entertainment. Purely subjective institutions.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:15

Orion1986 wrote: Art, entertainment. Purely subjective institutions.

Let me tell you a secret, even if i have to betray my colleagues. Even science is for a big part subjective, even if a lot of scientists will vehement protest and deny it.

Issy · Post by **Issy** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:21

Silverman wrote:
Orion1986 wrote: Art, entertainment. Purely subjective institutions.
Let me tell you a secret, even if i have to betray my colleagues. Even science is for a big part subjective, even if a lot of scientists will vehement protest and deny it.

as a fellow scientist (well, have studies sciences most of my life

) I have to say I agree too.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:23

As someone who knows nothing of it, I agree too...

Sorry, I just wanted to participate.

I just found out some great news so I'm a bit crazy right now. ISSY!!! Camellia will be out in Japan in March! KOREAN AUDIO!!!! *faints*

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:33

Are you talking about the movie with Song Hye Kyo?

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:36

That one, yesh. And she is stunning in it indeed. Especially the climax scene (not that kind of climax, although she is on top of him and he is strapped down and screaming and moaning) was awesome.

I am writing about it on my blog right now. I'll post the link for you in a while, if you want to know some impressions I had from the thai (had it on mute) version. I only watched a couple of scenes though. I am waiting for a proper DVD.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:38

Bring it on^^.

Issy · Post by **Issy** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:42

Silverman wrote:Are you talking about the movie with Song Hye Kyo?

no, the one with Kang Dong Won

Ori, I saw your kyaaaaaaa on "other places".

if only this damn vapour rub work so I can breath normally and can concentrate.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 00:59

Done.

I made that gif from a scene in the movie, btw.

Come to think of it, Korea should go for a futuristic drama sometime. I mean, this one didn't look too expensive to make and it's a short film. Maybe a mini-drama or something.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:01

Hello again,
I'm in physics, I can't agree with that...how can science be subjective, then its not science.

Orion, maybe similar tastes then. I like kind of minimal stuff. Less dialogue, ambient music, good facial expression not over acted or anything. Korea is usually fricking awesome with this, 3-iron castaway on the moon, etc...
More generally, I stay away from romcom, i hate intentional humor. Historical is okay, but the MUSIC AHHHHH the music, shoot self. Action/crime is bleh, not good. Too often melodramatic. Where are the oldboy actions scenes?? I want those. Do I like anything? I like what you might call in anime, slice of life. Relaxed, maybe a little slowpaced, lifelike realistic. Anything like that out there in kdrama?

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:10

I'm into crime myself and like more the rom-coms than family ones. Those are "slice of life", but they are annoying as hell with all the cliches and dysfunctional families with twisted morals.

Vampire Prosecutor (as silly as it may sound) is not overly dramatic, there is some little nice action, the crime is not boring and there's the supernatural vampire theme. You might like that.
But for slice of life, others are better equipped to tell you about that. I guess "The Man Who Can't Get Married" is a bit like that though. There isn't too much drama and it's still romantic and nice.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:17

I've seen kekkon dekenai otoko, but I'll check out the korean adaptation. I like the vampire prosecutor premise, I'll check that out too. I just hope it doesn't turn into some crazy story line and instead stays episodic-ish. That's what happened to claymore (this is similar to claymore actually) , and if uve read it...yeah, bad.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:18

It's episodic-ish with a main story that evolves slowly. The first part of it is done with Season 1 and Season 2 is coming next year, with the continuation of things, as well as more "crime of the week" episodic goodness. ^^

Don't be put off by the guyliner. I find it weird too, but I got used to it and they at least use heavier one in later scenes where he gets "vampier" so it looks like a logical part of vampire anatomy or something. He's still wicked manly.

Issy · Post by **Issy** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:36

Orion1986 wrote:Don't be put off by the guyliner. I find it weird too, but I got used to it and they at least use heavier one in later scenes where he gets "vampier" so it looks like a logical part of vampire anatomy or something. He's still wicked manly.

well helloooo??? of course! it's scientifically proven.

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:46

Okay my last one and I promise, I am done. The word masterpiece is what is being over worked. From cake to movies it all comes down to personal taste. When you ask for what dramas to watch, don't put down the dramas that people are trying to help you with. There are many that are a bit different from all the rest and to many of us, that makes them a favorite. Like ORION named off dramas that were really good. The Man Who Can't get Married, I laughed my head off and for Jdrama, Kimi wa Petto is really good. Kdrama usually is better with romantic comedy and Jdrama has much better mysteries. I believe (here we go personal taste) that acting is better with Jdrama and the reason is that school dramas are big in Japan which gives young actors an entry point and experience before the are in their 20s. Kdrama likes to grab inexperienced Kpop and idol singers in their 20s who need more time to develop. Yes there are exceptions to this also.

When I discovered KDrama in 2007 (Dae jo Yeong & Coffee Prince), this is where I came to learn and get some info on what to watch. I did not criticize people who were trying to help me. I have watched a lot of drama since then and like many I have favorite actors and dramas, if you do not like our opinions then explore on your own, but remember we are just trying to help.
Happy Holidays

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:47

pmt wrote:Hello again,
I'm in physics, I can't agree with that...how can science be subjective, then its not science.

Yes the phenomena, which are observed and described in the world of science, they are indeed objective. But how these phenomena are described and defined is based on the subjective opinion and impressions of the scientist, who describes it. And yes 1 is always 1 and we can't be more objective than this, but not all is so simple and clear. For example are a lot of definitions based on a subjective opinion of the "first scientist", who described the phenomenon in question. The following descriptions and definitions are based on this first subjective description, so that there will be a mutual understanding and the base for communication between the scientists. So for example if in biology the scientist describes the ears of a new species as "pointy" based on his subjective observations, so in the following descriptions of a new found species of the same genus the ears with the same shape are described as "pointy". That the phenomenon for itself stays unchanged and the objectivity is actually reached through the usage of the "scientific language", which is based on first subjective opinions and on commonly agreed terms and definitions, is a whole other topic.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 01:55

Thank you for explaining your side better, el_canuck. ^^

The internet is a tricky thing. When only text is used, intentions and tones can be misunderstood. Maybe pmt did not mean to disrespect us in any way, but you would be right to be upset about that, even if you did not perhaps use the best way to express that.

Happy holidays to you too.

And Silverman, 1 is always 1 because we decided there is such a thing as 1 and that it will always be the same. 1 would not exist had men not created it, in a sense.
Science is about rules and definitions and notions human beings have made to rationalize what they had no explanation for. That in itself is a very subjective thing.

But now I'm talking science at 4 in the morning so this may be a good indication that I need sleep.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 02:02

Yea i know i wanted to go there, but then i decided, that if i further break down this whole thing, then it would take pages and hours to write and the whole thing would be to philosophical. . I could go into things like time and that time doesn't actually exists and such things or that math is basically a from humans created "language" which just tries to describe something, but i skipped it. We could also question, if something like an objective opinion actually exists a.s.o.. And btw girls and boys, who are still students in schools, you can call BS to your mathteacher, if he says, that all of mathematical problems have an exact and define solution. At least practically its just an exception, what they teach in schools math.
Well its also late here, so it may be that not all what i write makes sense, so sorry for that^^.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 23rd, '11, 02:27

Physics is a science of observation. Observations are never subjective because they constantly repeated, statistically tested, and subject to peer review.
Hmm, I actually strongly disagree with Orion. Human beings have not made these rules and definitions, at least not in physics. These are rules already in place that we are observing. We may not get the full picture, but we are, as Feynman puts it, exploring a corner of the chess board and trying to describe the rules of a game based on a few moves (or observations). Physics in in NO way subjective. There is not a single thing you can point out. The fact that we invented math to explain physics is irrelevant, because math is an abstract to learn physics.

Anyways, yeah my intentions were not to disrespect. I may have a little arrogance, all physicists have this sort of thing and I apologize. But when I see my friends watching some bull*** like family guy or how I met your mother, I always try to turn them to something more entertaining and intelligent. And I have succeeded to some extent. There is always something better out there, and its my mission to find it always.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 03:44

But then again we could discuss this for decades here, since this discussion, if objective science actually exists is controversial.
For example you can argue that our world view is based on theories , which should describe the world like our senses sense it. But these theories don't describe the reality, but the mere model presentation. and all observations are full of theories and in some cases there exist no objective criteria to prove, which theory is more true. The one theory can be more plausible than the other theory, but this again is a intersubjective decision of humans. And even in physics there are a lot of theories, based on subjective observations and imagination.

Yes the existence of a objective reality is the basis for science. But the perception of this "real world" is still subjective and is in some cases different. And the ideal objectivity can not be achieved because of the subjective nature of the observations. But how i described earlier, an intersubjective consensus can be achieved. And even the the selection of methodology of the measurement and the measure instruments(there are different designs, and even the same models can have slight differences) can bring some subjectivities.Also the selection of an subject for an experiment can be a source for subjectivity, because there are just in rare cases two exact subjects in existence. Further these possible "errors" in the selections of tools and subjects, can generate small anomalies of the collected data. And after this the data has to be interpreted and brought to a define answer. And seriously have you in your time as scientist ever achieved the exact same data if you make 100 or 1000 measurements? That this interpretation is subjective or is analyzed in intersubjective principles is a further source of subjectivity. That these subjectivities can be just slightly different than the actual "ideal" objectivity doesn't matter. So in a lot of cases the science tries to be objective as possible, but that ideal is not always achieved.

OK that was the short version.^^ I can discuss this with pages over pages.^^

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 23rd, '11, 04:07

Hmm, for your first point, i think you are talking about philosophy not science. The imaginative part of physics, i.e. string theory, 11 dimensions, etc.. is indeed under debate and leads to philosophical arguments, but it would be a stretch to call it subjective. Brian Greene talks about this in his books. Actually if you read his introductions, you will get the idea. He has an excellent argument to why theories are NOT subjective and how they are not speculation.

Second, of course all measurements have experimental error and uncertainty, but this is all documented and well within statical bounds. Actually as a scientist, I have made over a dozen million measurements all within 1 sigma of the expected value (cosmic ray muon xD). Experimental physics is actually not subjective at all. Maybe you can pin that on theoretical physics, but not with much conviction. May I ask how you got these preconceptions about the subjectivity in science?

Its fun to defend physics xD cuz its so solid (now-a-days at least). But I see where you are coming from.I hope we're not abusing this thread with these tangents. I'll keep it on topic:
I <3 kdrama

Shindou · Post by **Shindou** » Dec 23rd, '11, 04:16

pmt wrote:I don't agree. There are masterpieces, although yes you have to overlook some minor things. BUT some dramas have very little of these minor things. Orange days and kekkon dekenai are perfect examples, I'm sure shindou would agree. A close example is Trick, which is sort of an episodic interesting drama which I never see in kdramas although I'd like someone to prove me wrong.

i definitely do agree orange days and kekkon dekinai otoko are excellent dramas.

i suppose you've already watched kim sam soon?

baker king kim tak goo is decent - if you're fine with the scheming & plotting

beethoven virus is weak overall but kim myung min's performance is truly outstanding

the woman who still wants to marry might also be up your alley

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 04:52

I try to hold back on arguments about physic with a physicist, since i had just one course of physic and the schoolphysic. So i'm nowhere near to be qualified to talk about physics and its objectivity. But physics is not the only science (yea i know physicists believe, that physics is the only true science and all other sciences are pseudosciences). Since it is so, my argument would still be true. I have a Bcs Chemistry, Bsc /Msc Biology so i can just talk from this perspective and in my experience there were a lot of cases of subjectivity, if i tried to find explanations for certain phenomenons (yes i try to be as objective as possible, but still there are always small traces of subjectivity). And not just in my papers have this "flaw"(ok i have publicized just 2 papers in journals so far) but also in other papers you can see it(even in such journals like Science, the holy grail of scientists). Especially in some parts of biology, like paleoanthropology, where certain arguments and camps exist, who fight about the interpretation of some things based on a subjective opinion. For example the chinese try since years to argue, that the modern human has his origins in china and not in africa^^.
But then again i for my part am more in the field of certainty, than these fields of biology(i'm in genetics and systematics).
And then again its just my opinion. And as a scientist you should know, that theories and opinions can be changed after a few minutes, if some new data or arguments are there. I build the described opinions based on my own consideration, thinking and observation in the middle of the night, so it could be possible, that after a few hours of sleep i will look at this and think "What a BS have i wrote there"^^. And truth to be told i'm drilled to believe that science is objective. But then again i have sometimes the urge to think and argue about things, which are accepted common knowledge^^.

OK we can come to a consensus and say: If we define the objectivity of observations as relative, then we can say that science is objective^^.

And at this point sorry at all the other users for such an offtopic, which is certainly boring for all the other people, except for pmt and me^^. So back to kdramas^^

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 23rd, '11, 05:02

I've seen all of beethoven virus and kim sam soon. And I've seen quite a bit of baker king before dropping it.
I completely agree with you on beethoven virus, kim myung min's performance was really quite good. Lee ji-ah... well she's f***ing hot xD.
Kim sam soon, I mean what do people like about this? Is it supposed to be some new concept for koreans or something.
Baker king was okay. I watched it mostly for Lee Young Ah. Lol at Eugene, she fails at acting.
I'll check out the woman who still wants to marry, thanks for suggesting.

I don't know enough about biology or chemistry to know whether its subjective or not, but I can believe what you are saying. One thing I know for sure, I've never looked back only any of my physics papers and said "what BS I've wrote there." Can't say the same for my English and chemistry papers tho xD. No offense though, biology and chemistry are really tough for me.
I'm still in my undergraduate, so I'm pretty inexperienced on these matters. But I have faith in physics. Physics actually shapes most of the values I have about my life.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 05:13

Try also:
Queen of Housewives
Queen of Reversals
It's OK daddies girl
They are certain no masterpieces, but watchable, if you like this kind of dramas.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 10:16

Let me just say that I love D-Addicts because we can actually have random PROPER conversations like these. Fangirl minds collectively exploded with your debate on physics.

Also, City Hunter might be something you'd like. It's action and it's a really good series, but I don't know if it would be your cup of tea. But do check out 2-3 episodes (not only the first).

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 10:51

Actually City Hunter begins with episode 2. Episode 1 is kinda...yeaaa...another drama, if you ask me.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 11:00

Episode 1 is the backstory. How we got there. I quite liked it like that. It does get a bit too corny, but at least they took their time to build the setting for the whole thing. All in all, despite some flaws (every series has them), awesome series.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 11:30

I know its not bad, but it has a different "feeling", than all the other episodes.

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 23rd, '11, 15:59

City Hunter was fun, the male lead is getting better every drama he is in and the rapport between the leads was so good, they are dating now. I know some did not like the ending and there is talk of a season two which is rare in Kdrama.

One that came in under the radar, was Harvest Villa, it has everything and can even be a little scary besides romance and comedy, and great villains. This drama is different from the rest.

And as I have said before, when I need a good laugh I will go back and watch an episode of The Man who can't Get Married.

Issy · Post by **Issy** » Dec 23rd, '11, 16:05

el_canuck wrote:And as I have said before, when I need a good laugh I will go back and watch an episode of The Man who can't Get Married.

I just can't tell which one I love more. Kekkon Dekinai Otoko or The Man Who Can't Get Married. both are just perfect. but I do love the ending of K-version more.

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 23rd, '11, 16:12

each episode had those little "enders" that were so good.

I watched this right after Spotlight where he played a policeman maybe that is why I enjoyed it so much. One of the fun thing I like about asian drama is that the actors get to play so many different roles,it has to be fun for the actors.

Shindou · Post by **Shindou** » Dec 23rd, '11, 17:35

Orion1986 wrote: Also, City Hunter might be something you'd like. It's action and it's a really good series, but I don't know if it would be your cup of tea. But do check out 2-3 episodes (not only the first).

hmmm, let me put it this way, if you're looking for stories that makes some logical sense and has convincing acting - City Hunter would be almost furthest from my mind. Far far away from the stuff of Kim Myung Min in Beethoven Virus. And agreed, do ignore episode 1 since it feels like a different scriptwriter wrote it.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 17:56

Well, plot holes in kdrama is nothing new, frankly. At least we had action, we didn't have a poor "fragile" female lead who is all talk and no spunk and there was no sobbing over disapproving the bride.
Compared to rom-coms out there and all the sageuk and melodramas, it's fresh and it's high quality in terms of overall production. Even if you did not like it yourself and I did, the quality is still good.

Shindou · Post by **Shindou** » Dec 23rd, '11, 18:32

Orion1986 wrote:Well, plot holes in kdrama is nothing new, frankly. At least we had action, we didn't have a poor "fragile" female lead who is all talk and no spunk and there was no sobbing over disapproving the bride.
Compared to rom-coms out there and all the sageuk and melodramas, it's fresh and it's high quality in terms of overall production. Even if you did not like it yourself and I did, the quality is still good.

they are not new, but unfortunately i get very annoyed and distracted with dramas where the 'convinceability' of either the script or the acting is such that it detracts from everything else - just happens that City Hunter is one of those dramas for me

there are dramas out there that do have fewer plot holes and much more convincing acting (I'm sorry, Kim Nana really just did not cut it for me)

if you're referring to the quality of the set, filming, action sequences etc, i would agree its good quality, but i guess i'm a very script/plot/character-centric person so issues in those areas can really ruin a drama for me.

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 23rd, '11, 18:59

Here I go again. What is wrong with something being entertaining, many of us were entertained by City Hunter. Remember all we are doing is recommending drama to others. If you do not like it give us a name of one you liked. I also liked Athena, you could find flaws with that one too, but as long as I am not paying for it and sainted people are spending their free time subtitling it, I will watch it and recommend it to others. Why don't people have a forum and title it "Dramas I Hate", then they could rant and rave all they want to and not confuse people who might be looking for ideas on what to watch in this forum.
Remember if you do not like a drama, TURN IT OFF or start another.

Merry Christmas

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 19:03

Shindou wrote: i'm a very script/plot/character-centric person so issues in those areas can really ruin a drama for me.

Then you won't enjoy many Korean dramas since most of them are far more lacking than this one. It's a pathetic situation really.

The only reason I enjoy most of them is being able to leave my brain out the door. But I do like that kind of entertainment as well.

And el_canuck, I don't think only speaking of the good things and what we like is fair either. That's what fangirls do. Shut themselves off to criticism and "if you don't like it, stop complaining".
We all have a right to complain and an obligation to complain if we find something lacking, because we are all part of its audience and our satisfaction as well, should be taken into account.

Someone recommended a drama they find good. Someone does not find it good and thinks it's a good idea for the person receiving the recommendation to know not everyone likes it.
I don't see anything wrong with that. It's still the person's who asked decision and also right to hear all sides. If they chose to listen to one or then the other, that's their issue, not ours.

el_canuck · Post by **el_canuck** » Dec 23rd, '11, 19:14

Maybe the title has changed, but at the top it says Recommended/Favorite Korean Dramas, NOT What dramas do you hate?
So I am trying to be nice to those who are looking for dramas to watch, we are all different in our likes and dislikes so why can't we keep to the title and let others then pick and choose? Is that so hard?

Shindou · Post by **Shindou** » Dec 23rd, '11, 19:22

Orion1986 wrote: Then you won't enjoy many Korean dramas since most of them are far more lacking than this one. It's a pathetic situation really.
The only reason I enjoy most of them is being able to leave my brain out the door. But I do like that kind of entertainment as well.

haha, ya, i'm hard to please - takes me a lot of time to find a drama to try

el_canuck wrote:Here I go again. What is wrong with something being entertaining, many of us were entertained by City Hunter. Remember all we are doing is recommending drama to others. If you do not like it give us a name of one you liked. I also liked Athena, you could find flaws with that one too, but as long as I am not paying for it and sainted people are spending their free time subtitling it, I will watch it and recommend it to others. Why don't people have a forum and title it "Dramas I Hate", then they could rant and rave all they want to and not confuse people who might be looking for ideas on what to watch in this forum.
Remember if you do not like a drama, TURN IT OFF or start another.

Merry Christmas

actually, i did provide a list to pmh a few pages back. in this case, i felt it was also important to point out a different side so others can make a better decision since the ultimate purpose is to make a recommendations for someone else.

And el_canuck, I don't think only speaking of the good things and what we like is fair either. That's what fangirls do. Shut themselves off to criticism and "if you don't like it, stop complaining".
We all have a right to complain and an obligation to complain if we find something lacking, because we are all part of its audience and our satisfaction as well, should be taken into account.

Someone recommended a drama they find good. Someone does not find it good and thinks it's a good idea for the person receiving the recommendation to know not everyone likes it.
I don't see anything wrong with that. It's still the person's who asked decision and also right to hear all sides. If they chose to listen to one or then the other, that's their issue, not ours.

agreed

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 23rd, '11, 19:26

Actually it is hard to pick and choose. As we have demonstrated, for City Hunter, you may have to watch 2-3 episodes before you decide to continue watching or drop it. I don't want to waste my time if someone who has similar tastes says he hates it. Human's aren't so much different; its not like everyone has a different drama they like. That's why I want to hear what people like AND dislike and their reasons why.

I'll work on watching vampire prosecutor soon.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 23rd, '11, 20:07

pmt wrote:Human's aren't so much different; its not like everyone has a different drama they like.

I do not agree with that myself. I have many friends here and there are dramas we all like and would mention as a recommendation and then we completely disagree on others.
I would trust Ethlenn's opinion on a drama, i.e, but she loved 49 Days and I hate it with passion. I love a lot of things Janajee does, but she actually watched Mary me, Marry.

Humans are very different when it comes to art and entertainment because those rely a lot on a person's life experiences, values, what they like or don't like. And the combinations and gravity of those for each person are different.
You might like everything another person does and then they might recommend a drama they think is awesome, but which you may not like. Because it has some things they are ok with that you are not, even if your tastes are similar.

What I mean is, even if you find someone here who likes 99 percent of what you do, they may make a suggestion that, for some reason, you will not like. You can't trust numbers in such issues. It's a complete stab in the dark.
What you can trust a bit, in terms of quality, not personal preference, is people's opinions and words on something, who seem like they know what they're talking about or can say something other than "oppa iz so CUTE in this!"

I can tell you City Hunter has action and good production value and that I personally liked it. If I look like I have a brain, you can still only trust the first "practical" part of my opinion somewhat. My like/dislike is 50/50 for you or anyone.

This thread is about opinions and maybe some well-placed comments on overall quality, but that's as "close to target" as you're going to get with any recommendation regarding art and entertainment. It's up to you to sort it out.

Sham26 · Post by **Sham26** » Dec 23rd, '11, 20:28

Agree with what Orion said,I found CH amazing especially the last episodes!
And for me there are some people with whom I might have a similar taste and disagree about few dramas,these persons I would definitely check what they recommand,and some who has a different taste,completely different ) like those who liked Full house,MMM,Heartstrings,BBF...),I'll probably never check what they mention and I thank them for that,I won't waste my time,may be I'll miss a gem but I'm not taking the risk !
D-A is a proof that people have different tastes!Nobody can be 100%objective about that!

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 23rd, '11, 21:34

But the possibilities are still very limited. For one, every human can have his own opinion. But if two people have the taste, where their preferences are up to 95-99% identical, then the possibility, that the one likes something, what the other doesn't like are statistically not significant. So the chances are, that you will like his/her recommendation is almost 100% if he/she makes 2-3 recommendations.
If you observe just every drama/movie for itself, so yes, there are almost limitless possible "tastes" (@ pmt yea i know you can actually calculate this possibility, but the number of possible combinations is ridiculously high). But if you make some assumptions, then the possibility of liking someones recommendation is much higher. For example you have to assume, that all the people here like kdramas. Then we can assume, that everyone has a favorite genre(and this is given, because the most people who ask for recommendations, the say which kind of drama they want to watch). Then the possibilities are relatively limited. So for example if you like shallow romcoms and i like shallow romcoms and i make a suggestion, so there are high chances, that you will like the drama or at least think of my recommendation as OK. But even the chances, that my favorite romcom, will be your favorite romcom are very high. Because the are about ~500 translated kdramas out there. If you take just the shallow romcoms, then there are ~100 of them. So there is at least 1% chance, that the recommended drama will be your favorite romcom-drama. And further, if i recommend to you not just one drama, but 10 dramas, then there is 10% possibility, that this will be your favorite romcom. So alone the recommendation of the favorite drama and the possibility of becoming your favorite kdrama is very high. But if we assume , that you'll like or at least enjoy 30% of the 100 romcoms (ok this assumption is a stretch and i have no legit defense for this assumption, since i would have to make polls to collect this data), and i recommend 3+ dramas, than you will like at least one of them (ok this is actually only true, if i select 3 random dramas, without a bias). There are further factors., which influence the whole thing (like bad dramas/good dramas, the possibility of liking of a bad drama-guilty pleasure-a.s.o.), but there i would have to collect data. But overall i just wanted to show, that even if every human has his own experiences, taste a.s.o, so there surprisingly limited possibilities.

pmt · Post by **pmt** » Dec 24th, '11, 01:11

Only 500 translated kdramas 0_0, but your analysis is interesting even if it is a rough attempt.
I'd like to do attempt some rough statistics on this as well, but we'd need a poll. Under my impression there seem to be many people who like a broad range of popular dramas. For example (I can't tell if this is true of not) if some likes coffee prince they may like goong, lie to me, etc...(if you get the trend there). It may be more useful to poll which popular dramas people hate and for what reasons instead. That would separate out the population of unsatisfied viewers (me) from those people who seem to like whatever then see. The worse case scenario would be if everyone hated all the dramas in the poll, which is highly unlikely (remember these are supposedly popular dramas). You could easily define a "taste similarity index" from this. And if you grouped those with similar "taste similarity indices" and polled them separately, you would narrow it down to at least 2 people with similar tastes. There is my proof for human beings are similar xD.

I watched the first episode of vampire prosecutor, and I have to say it was a pleasant surprise. The main character is definitely what I'm looking for. I had to ignore the camera movement, and WTF was that song at the bar. LOL@ cod camping, that was quite amusing. I tried to find the title to no avail.

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 24th, '11, 03:20

ea i had way too many assumptions, without actual research, to call it all valid without doubt. Also if the attempt would be made to make such statistics, then there are a lot of factors to look out for. For example
-how many people watch dramas based on actors or purely based on story+genre or a mix between these two.
-people who prefer certain genres or people who don't care about genre
- and here comes the unrealistic point, which makes an realistic attempt of such statistics impossible. All the people, who participate in this poll, have to watch all dramas and rate them. All dramas is a little bit exaggerated, but they should at least watch a big sample of dramas and these dramas should have been watched by all the people, who participate. In such polls the people normally watched just 50% of the listed dramas. OK we could list just popular dramas, so that the probability, that all the subjects watched them is much higher. But on the other hand it could influence the overall result, because the evaluated dramas should be selected randomly, without the popularity-factor. Ok this point could be discussed and shaped further, but it will be too detailed for a rough example.
- after this survey and the evaluation, all the people would have to watch a certain amount of dramas, which were never seen by all the subjects and then they have to rate them.
-there are sure a lot more point i can not think off at this moment.

So overall a scientifically objective and precise analysis of this matter would take too much time and too many people in a controlled environment. The only thing that would be realistic is a survey with popular dramas and the hope, that this result isn't too different from the actual result^^.

Orion1986 · Post by **Orion1986** » Dec 24th, '11, 07:18

Well, I won't keep this up since you clearly think different than me, but if you do feel that you can find the "perfect suggestions", it's your time which will be invested on it.
And btw, I loved Coffee Prince, hated Goong, Lie to Me was ok till they messed it up, My Girl was complete crap, SKKS Scandal was meh and I loved "Playful Kiss".

As for the song, it's actually smartly used because the villain of the series is exactly that. A camper. They mess things up from the shadows and do cowardly strikes.

The song: Albert Kick feat. Jason Rene - Camper and it can be found by googling the lyrics.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OIDoxlny2ao" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 24th, '11, 12:19

Orion1986 wrote:Well, I won't keep this up since you clearly think different than me, but if you do feel that you can find the "perfect suggestions", it's your time which will be invested on it.
And btw, I loved Coffee Prince, hated Goong, Lie to Me was ok till they messed it up, My Girl was complete crap, SKKS Scandal was meh and I loved "Playful Kiss".

The point is not, that to find perfect suggestions, but to show, that if people with very similar taste can make valid recommendations to each other and that there is a high probability, that the other one will like it. And that there is a limited number of different opinions.Its not something worth the time. It was just a thought.

I also loved Coffee Prince, hated Goong and Lie to me was ok up to a certain point. But i liked My Girl and SKKS and hated Playful Kiss^^.

rernkent · Post by **rernkent** » Dec 26th, '11, 04:14

Almost finish watching 'That Fool'. Absolutely loved it. I really like this kind of story, where the underdog gets the girl.

Can u guys recommend me more similar drams?

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 26th, '11, 05:16

rernkent wrote:Almost finish watching 'That Fool'. Absolutely loved it. I really like this kind of story, where the underdog gets the girl.

Can u guys recommend me more similar drams?

Similar or at least "underdog"-dramas are:
male underdog:
101 Proposal - very similar: an older guy, gets the younger and famous announcer
Take care of Agasshi - well he is not an underdog in his looks, but a social underdog
I am sam - a little bit less than average looking guy

Female underdog:
Oh My Lady - divorced woman with kid and without a career, gets a younger superstar. Although the actress for herself isn't that old(in the western world you can still count her to the young people) and is actually beautiful, but in the drama she is a "ugly old hag"...these koreans.
The Greatest Love - an fallen idol gets the superstar
Lie to Me - a low level civil servant gets the chaebol
Full House- it's actually a reversed version of That Fool. The guy is the superstar in this one and they get a fake marriage.

Ok the most kdramas out there are about underdog girls, who get the prince. But they are in most cases just poor and nowhere near to be an underdog in the department of beauty. I don't know any drama, where the female lead is really ugly. There are a lot with "ajuhumas", but they are basically miss koreas, who are older than 30.

I can name a few superstar+ average guy/girl dramas if you want.

rernkent · Post by **rernkent** » Dec 26th, '11, 07:57

Silverman wrote:
rernkent wrote:Almost finish watching 'That Fool'. Absolutely loved it. I really like this kind of story, where the underdog gets the girl.

Can u guys recommend me more similar drams?
Similar or at least "underdog"-dramas are:
male underdog:
101 Proposal - very similar: an older guy, gets the younger and famous announcer
Take care of Agasshi - well he is not an underdog in his looks, but a social underdog
I am sam - a little bit less than average looking guy

Female underdog:
Oh My Lady - divorced woman with kid and without a career, gets a younger superstar. Although the actress for herself isn't that old(in the western world you can still count her to the young people) and is actually beautiful, but in the drama she is a "ugly old hag"...these koreans.
The Greatest Love - an fallen idol gets the superstar
Lie to Me - a low level civil servant gets the chaebol
Full House- it's actually a reversed version of That Fool. The guy is the superstar in this one and they get a fake marriage.

Ok the most kdramas out there are about underdog girls, who get the prince. But they are in most cases just poor and nowhere near to be an underdog in the department of beauty. I don't know any drama, where the female lead is really ugly. There are a lot with "ajuhumas", but they are basically miss koreas, who are older than 30.

I can name a few superstar+ average guy/girl dramas if you want.

Thanks for the recommendation. Will check them out. I really love 'underdog' stories.
Actually it doesn't really have to be a love story. I mean it could be sports or anything that have the 'underdog' feeling. Any recommendations?

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 26th, '11, 20:50

There aren't many sportsdramas i know of.
-Dream- watchable
-Heading to the Ground - Go Ah Ra and Yuhno in one drama is too much, i dropped it.
-Dr. Champ - was ok
-Punch- Shin Min Ah...does someone need more reasons to watch this?^^.

mumblerm · Post by **mumblerm** » Dec 29th, '11, 11:10

I really enjoyed this Kdrama, and I'm wondering if anyone out there knows of something similar? By similar, I mean a drama that has amazing action scenes and a bad-ass female lead. It doesn't have to be a Kdrama, but I do prefer J/Kdramas.

Thank you in advance!<3

Silverman · Post by **Silverman** » Dec 30th, '11, 10:28

Killer Girl is kinda unique, so that its difficult to recommend a similar drama.
But overall is City Hunter a drama, which has a a**kicking girl as one of the mainleads.
Other actiondramas are:
Crime Squad
Fugitive Plan B - not too bad, but also nothing special
Powerful Opponents - a strong female lead, but there is not enough action to call is an actiondrama.
Iris+Athena - i think they are good dramas, but i think they are overrated

Then there are a lot of period-action dramas, but there you have to ask the experts.

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