Gaijin (Foreign) Romances

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Sep 27th, '05, 09:49

I know this is kind of a weird topic but, as the topic says, are foreign romances looked down upon or not good? I'm moving to Japan in a few years and would like to get married one day but, are there any problems undergoing this?

20centuryboy · Post by **20centuryboy** » Sep 27th, '05, 10:10

I've been accepted without any problems by the japanese family of my wife. They are very patient even when you make the usual foreigner's mistakes. But I heard some case where it was a little cold at first.

Don't use the term "gaijin" with japaneses, it's a very unpolite word and it makes most of them very unconfortable when it's used in front of them. Like saying " hahahaha! you're a racist country" (wich they are not at all, just that there is a bit of racism like everywhere, but there it's against white people, something we are not used too so we react ).

You already planning to marry a japanese girl before meeting her?

You have time to fall for a swedish and move to Stockholm before you know it!

Maybe you will experience the "human dictionnary " thing before you find a Girlfriend in Japan.

aNToK · Post by **aNToK** » Sep 27th, '05, 10:29

Hmm... My lady's family was uncomfortable with the idea until they met me. It was like "If we don't like him, we're going back in a month". Dad went back after 2 years to take care of things at home, and mom's a resident alien these days....

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Sep 27th, '05, 10:37

20centuryboy wrote:I've been accepted without any problems by the japanese family of my wife. They are very patient even when you make the usual foreigner's mistakes. But I heard some case where it was a little cold at first.

Don't use the term "gaijin" with japaneses, it's a very unpolite word and it makes most of them very unconfortable when it's used in front of them. Like saying " hahahaha! you're a racist country" (wich they are not at all, just that there is a bit of racism like everywhere, but there it's against white people, something we are not used too so we react ).

You already planning to marry a japanese girl before meeting her?
You have time to fall for a swedish and move to Stockholm before you know it!

Maybe you will experience the "human dictionnary " thing before you find a Girlfriend in Japan.

I was hoping they'd be patient... I just don't want them to treat me too differently or anything like that. Thanks for the tip on using the word "Gaijin". I use it a fair amount or times thinking it's a normal everyday word. I won't use it anymore...or try not to anyways.

Hehe, yeah, I guess It does seem like I'm planning on marrying a Japanese girl before meeting her...

Well, I'm still too young to be thinking about marriage and by the time I move over there, I'll probably still be to young, but I certainly do want to get married...
Swedish girl? Maybe...you never know what the future may hold...

kendrew · Post by **kendrew** » Sep 28th, '05, 02:42

albertoavena: you're moving to Japan? I hope to do that too, but I want to know the criteria that I have to meet in order to do that. Can you give me some information about it? btw i love your sig, densha otoko

I don't think they would mind a foreigner, they've got a pretty weird culture, they accept a lot of different culture, but somehow maintain their own uniqueness and customs

Post by **jholic** » Sep 28th, '05, 09:35

since this is specific to jp, i'm moving to Jp Entertainment.

good luck in getting your jp girlfriend!

20centuryboy · Post by **20centuryboy** » Sep 28th, '05, 09:53

hope she will be entertaining !

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Sep 28th, '05, 17:54

Thanks everyone!! I appreciate all you support. Thanks for moving my topic too. I was wondering where it was..

Yes, I hope she's entertaining, I guess...I should study Japanese alot more so there's no language difficullties.

I can't wait to move!

kendrew wrote:albertoavena: you're moving to Japan? I hope to do that too, but I want to know the criteria that I have to meet in order to do that. Can you give me some information about it? btw i love your sig, densha otoko

I don't think they would mind a foreigner, they've got a pretty weird culture, they accept a lot of different culture, but somehow maintain their own uniqueness and customs

Thanks for the sig comment, yes, Densha Otoko is the best! I agree, even though they are influenced by American things, they still seem to maintain traditional customs in many ways. To answer your question, I'm moving after I graduate from college and hopefully find a job. I have to find a good employer. As for the criteria you have to meet, I guess you have to have some Japanese knowldge and be able to speak it. Also, if you thinking of becoming a permanent resident, as I am doing as well, check out this page: http://www.jpop.com/jforum/index.php?showtopic=2761. Explains the steps to becoming a permanent resident. If you go to college, you should look into some study abroad programs. I can't really do that seeing as how I go to a tech school and they don't offer programs like that.

I'm also planning on taking the Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) one day. Maybe you should look into that too.. I hope this helps.

kendrew · Post by **kendrew** » Sep 29th, '05, 02:55

hey thanks man... wow, lots of info... got a few years to decide (graduating high school this year)

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Sep 29th, '05, 10:31

kendrew wrote:hey thanks man... wow, lots of info... got a few years to decide (graduating high school this year)

yep ^^ you have plenty of time to decide... Glad I could help out!

Thanks for everybody's help once again.. If anyone has something to add to my question, it would be greatly appreciated!

Kinzaru · Post by **Kinzaru** » Sep 29th, '05, 11:26

Not to put a damper on things but it really depends on your situation. I dated a few girls before meeting my wife and each of their parents reacted differently to me. Some were extremely accepting and others were severely disappointed in their daughter's choosing to date a gaijin. My wife's parents are not that thrilled about me but I think the bottom line for them is their daughter's happiness. As long as she is happy with me then they tolerate me.

Like I said, it just depends. There is some very traditional "old-school" thinking in Japan, especially in the rural areas. And then there are those who are more open and progressive in their thinking. It's like everything else. You can't generalize. Same with the word gaijin. Some people find it a touchy and others don't think anything of it. I opt for it at work instead of using gaikokujin because I couldn't care less (and because it is shorter

) . My co-workers know that about me and it doesn't matter to them because I am not bothered by it.

Bottom line, you'll just have to come to Japan and experience it for yourself. There is no black and white answer for you. Having said that, I wish the best of luck to you and anyone else planning on coming to Japan.

kendrew · Post by **kendrew** » Sep 30th, '05, 03:38

about finding a job... how would you go about doing that?

Keeper of hells gate2 · Post by **Keeper of hells gate2** » Sep 30th, '05, 04:31

Question for Japanese residents - Is it true that if you are a foreigner some bars, clubs and restaurants will not allow you in because you are a foreigner? I thought I heard that once.

As for finding a job - I would recommend becoming an english teacher or tutor. I heard alot of english speaking people go to Japan to teach proper english. I also heard it pays well.

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Sep 30th, '05, 04:41

kendrew wrote:about finding a job... how would you go about doing that?

As Keeper of hells gate2 said, being an english teacher is a great way to find employment in Japan. You would probably still have to go to college though if you want a permamnet job. If you just go and ask to be a teacher without going to college, it's usually for a small period and doesn't pay as well. If your not going to be a teacher, I suggest you find a good employer who is willing to hire you before you make the move over there.

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:Question for Japanese residents - Is it true that if you are a foreigner some bars, clubs and restaurants will not allow you in because you are a foreigner? I thought I heard that once.

Well, it's true to some extent. It's actually changing alot these days and most public places are starting to remove there "Japanese Only" signs. Check this site out for more information: http://www.debito.org/. It explains it fairly well of how discrimination in Japan is changing.

Keeper of hells gate2 · Post by **Keeper of hells gate2** » Sep 30th, '05, 05:15

LOL - Could you possibly image what would happen to me in the united states if I put up a sign at my business that said, "NO JAPANESE". The ACLU, Civil Rights Union, NAACP and just about every lawyer in the country would have a field day with me and rightfully so.

Post by **jholic** » Sep 30th, '05, 09:49

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:As for finding a job - I would recommend becoming an english teacher or tutor. I heard alot of english speaking people go to Japan to teach proper english. I also heard it pays well.

since some companies will pay or subsidize your housing, you would save a bunch on rent. but money can be made by free-lancing. some of my friends earned extra money outside of school by tutoring, teaching children, or correcting papers.

Kinzaru · Post by **Kinzaru** » Sep 30th, '05, 10:06

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:Question for Japanese residents - Is it true that if you are a foreigner some bars, clubs and restaurants will not allow you in because you are a foreigner? I thought I heard that once.

A friend of mine did get refused entrance into a club in Nagoya but I have never had anything like that happen to me (I have gotten kicked out of a club once though but that was after entering and had nothing to do with my being a gaijin

). I couldn't imagine a restaurant ever doing that but perhaps somewhere there is one. My point is that while there are cases and that does suck, it is not prevalent at all. Like I said, I've never had any problems and I've been to a ton of places.

kendrew wrote:about finding a job... how would you go about doing that?

I would recommend the JET programme http://www.jetprogramme.org/. It is how I first came over and it was a wonderful way to get introduced to this country. The reason being you have a support system in place and a bunch of people just like you coming over at the same time and located (usually) in positions near you. You could also check sites like http://www.gaijinpot.com/ for job listings in Japan.

Your best bet will probably be an English teaching position unless you have good Japanese and some skills in other areas. With the right skill set and a decent command of the language, you can venture away from the English teaching gigs but if not then teaching English is about the best you can do. Some people choose to come over through one of the eikaiwa (English conversation) companies like Nova, GEOS, AEON ect. but I have heard a lot more negative things than positive coming from people who had worked or were working for them.

My advice is to research, research, research. I looked into a ton of options before making my decision and had backup plans if my number one choice fell through. The internet is full of information about living and working in Japan so take advantage of that. Oh, and one last thing... study Japanese like crazy before you come!

Post by **jholic** » Sep 30th, '05, 10:20

Kinzaru wrote:Some people choose to come over through one of the eikaiwa (English conversation) companies like Nova, GEOS, AEON ect. but I have heard a lot more negative things than positive coming from people who had worked or were working for them.

i have also heard negative things about most of the companies mentioned. i would also suggest another company if possible, but you may have to start out with one of these.

JET is pretty stong here in hawaii. our university of hawaii is a very large participant in that program. i regret never enrolling in that program....

Agent007 · Post by **Agent007** » Sep 30th, '05, 20:18

What are the posibilities of finding a job that will sponsor you for a visa? I don't have a bachelor's degree, and probably never will, but I'd like to spend at least a year in Japan. Is it even a possibility? I've been studying Japanese for 2yrs, but I'd like to get at least a level 2 JLPT cert before I applied. Any hope?

Kinzaru · Post by **Kinzaru** » Oct 1st, '05, 03:26

Agent007 wrote:What are the posibilities of finding a job that will sponsor you for a visa? I don't have a bachelor's degree, and probably never will, but I'd like to spend at least a year in Japan. Is it even a possibility? I've been studying Japanese for 2yrs, but I'd like to get at least a level 2 JLPT cert before I applied. Any hope?

Well, you cannot get a working visa without a degree. You do have a few other options though. You can apply for a working holiday visa through London which would last a year. You may or may not be qualified so check here http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/w_ho ... ramme.html to see. You could come over on a student visa, though that doesn't sound like what you want. You could marry a national or have a spouse with a working visa etc. Check around on that site. It has a list of visas and other information.

Last option would be to look through job listings for an ad that specifically states that no degree is required. These are bottom of the barrel jobs and you would be taking a risk accepting them. But it may be your only shot if no other visa would work for you. I believe these jobs usually bring you over on a tourist visa (which I don't think even allows you to work) but I have no idea how they handle it once you get here. Big risks both from getting kicked out of the country for visa issues to dealing with a shady employer.

Oh, one more option to try if all else fails. You can pay for a fake college degree and try to get a job with it. I'd be lying if I said I didn't know people living and working here now that had fake degrees. Again this is a big risk for obvious reasons.

I don't recommend either of the last two options. The working holiday visa is your best bet if you qualify for it. If you don't qualify then browse those list of visas and see if there is one that would work for you. If you had the financial backing then you could do something like the cultural activities visa. Good luck to you. It's not impossible but it is going to be a bit tougher.

2triky · Post by **2triky** » Oct 1st, '05, 03:53

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:Question for Japanese residents - Is it true that if you are a foreigner some bars, clubs and restaurants will not allow you in because you are a foreigner? I thought I heard that once.

i've heard that too...when i was in japan last fall i was going to go this hip hop club called harlem but i ended up not going because i was too tired only to find out later that to gain entry into thatl club you had to go with a japanese native, as a chaperone so to speak. don't know if that's still the case...i think it was because they had some problems with a few foreigners there....fights, drugs, etc....

that's a whack ass policy tho...

2triky · Post by **2triky** » Oct 1st, '05, 03:57

Agent007 wrote:You can pay for a fake college degree and try to get a job with it. I'd be lying if I said I didn't know people living and working here now that had fake degrees. Again this is a big risk for obvious reasons.

that's fuggin' pathetic as hell! fake college degree....with fake transcripts too i would imagine...how fuggin' sorry...

Hayashi_kun · Post by **Hayashi_kun** » Oct 1st, '05, 04:12

Thanx for al the info, as im also v interested in finding ways to live in Japan.
will be looking thru all the JET and other programs u guys recommended.
jusr thought that caucasians would be preferred over Singaporeans (asian) when it comes to teaching English.
Perhaps I can resort to teaching Chinese as well...
btw, do Japanese study american/british english? we use both in Singapore thou..

Post by **jholic** » Oct 1st, '05, 11:31

Kinzaru wrote:Well, you cannot get a working visa without a degree.

interesting. last i heard, it was very difficult to get a working visa w/o a COLLEGE degree, but not impossible. things may have gotten stricter since.

Kinzaru wrote:Oh, one more option to try if all else fails. You can pay for a fake college degree and try to get a job with it. I'd be lying if I said I didn't know people living and working here now that had fake degrees. Again this is a big risk for obvious reasons.

ha, yes, i've heard of this too, but i'm glad Kinzaru does NOT recommend it. it's a huuge risk, and i wouldn't take the chance.

honestly, if you LOOK gaijin (blonde hair, blue eyes, etc). you've got a very good shot at working there (w/o a college degree). i'm being honest.

Agent007 · Post by **Agent007** » Oct 1st, '05, 14:09

lol No, I don't plan on comitting fraud or working illegally. I do have an Associate's degree if that helps at all. I just don't think I have the time/ money to go at least another 3 yrs for a BA. I was under the impression that you needed a Bachelors to apply for a work visa on your own, but not necessarily if you were sponsored by a company. Did I just read that wrong?

TNF · Post by **TNF** » Oct 1st, '05, 14:14

jholic wrote:
Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:some of my friends earned extra money outside of school by ....correcting papers.

um..does that mean professors are hiring students to grade papers for them?

2triky · Post by **2triky** » Oct 1st, '05, 14:52

tikleabubble wrote:
jholic wrote:
Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:some of my friends earned extra money outside of school by ....correcting papers.
um..does that mean professors are hiring students to grade papers for them?

that's doesnt' seem like a big deal...any school with teacher's aids or graduate student instructors that lead discussions sections probably adhere to that protocol.

Kinzaru · Post by **Kinzaru** » Oct 1st, '05, 16:07

jholic wrote:interesting. last i heard, it was very difficult to get a working visa w/o a COLLEGE degree, but not impossible. things may have gotten stricter since.

I am of course not an expert on any of this but I was under the impression that a college degree was basically a given if you were trying to get a working visa. I know without one you can forget about JET, major eikaiwa companies, most private ALT gigs, etc. This leaves you with basically only scraps left as far as English teaching positions go. Well regardless, we both agree that it is very difficult to get a proper visa without one.

Having that typical western-gaijin look is helpful but it doesn't seem to be money in the bank anymore. In my opinion the English teaching market isn't as open as it used to be and my guess would be that it's due to the rising popularity of Japanese culture with the Western audiences, thanks in large part to anime, manga, etc.

There are a lot more people trying to get into Japan now. I have had some ex-JET buddies try to get jobs after their stint on the program and most went through a lot of interviews before getting accepted for a decent job (emphasis on decent, eikaiwa are always hiring). I guess it comes down to what you are willing to settle for. If you want to get over here no matter what the cost then I am sure you can find something. But not having a college degree is really going to hold you back and that won't change once you get here. Maybe you can get sponsored by a company without one, Agent007, but I would strongly advise doing some research into anyone offering you a position that allows for not having a basic college degree.

Hayashi_kun wrote:btw, do Japanese study american/british english? we use both in Singapore thou..

In my experience, American English is by far the most desired (much to the chagrin of a few Brit and Aussie friends of mine) but English teachers come from all over. It seems like the typical Western look is preferred but I have a few Asian friends who are English teachers. They are nationals of Western countries though. It doesn't really matter though as you may sometimes find your natural English being corrected in favor of the accepted Japanese take on it, heh.

As I said, I don't pretend to be an expert on any of this. These are just the opinions of a scraggly ol' gaijin who got lucky.

Jane2000 · Post by **Jane2000** » Oct 1st, '05, 16:29

What about French teachers ?

Post by **jholic** » Oct 1st, '05, 20:01

tikleabubble wrote:
Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:some of my friends earned extra money outside of school by ....correcting papers.
um..does that mean professors are hiring students to grade papers for them?

well, i've heard that many STUDENTS will pay to have their papers corrected before submitting them. that can earn you extra money.

Kinzaru: thanks for giving me the update. i'm not only NOT an expert, but it's been a few years since i've followed that topic. your knowledge of the current situation is probably a lot better than mine. what you've said is pretty interesting.

perhaps jp people will actually LEARN some english now!

i don't mean to be rude, but as much as english is integrated in their culture (amount of eng schools, part of their curriculum, etc), nihonjin are still pretty awful at english. i attributed it to this:

back in my day (ancient history), it was rather easy to get into the JET and similar programs. most eng schools would just hire any old joe that could speak perfect english, no prior teaching experience necessary. i think the theory was if a student was forced to learn from a native english speaker, and s/he would pick up the language. i do not believe this works.

w/ a better screening system and criteria, perhaps japan will finally reach the point which they wish to be at.

Agent007 · Post by **Agent007** » Oct 1st, '05, 20:23

So I take it an Associates is pretty worthless, huh? That sucks.
And I was looking into translation work. If it's possible, I might try to find some work over here w/ a translation company for some experience, and at least try to get a Class 2 on the JLPT. Think that would make you interesting enough for a company to consider sponsoring you?

Also, do you think they might ever loosen the restrictions in light of this whole 'population decline' thing everyone seems to be talking about?

Post by **jholic** » Oct 1st, '05, 20:33

i don't think an associate's is worthless. if you can speak/read/write jp very well, there are many companies that would want you (IMO). please check out some job search places (especially for japanese companies), and see how far your resume can get you. then, you'll have a better idea on what you need to work on.

Keeper of hells gate2 · Post by **Keeper of hells gate2** » Oct 2nd, '05, 02:12

Agent007 wrote:So I take it an Associates is pretty worthless, huh? That sucks.
And I was looking into translation work. If it's possible, I might try to find some work over here w/ a translation company for some experience, and at least try to get a Class 2 on the JLPT. Think that would make you interesting enough for a company to consider sponsoring you?

Also, do you think they might ever loosen the restrictions in light of this whole 'population decline' thing everyone seems to be talking about?

I think the decline in Japan's popullation is a good thing or any country's decline in population is a good thing (6.5 billion people is enough). 126 million people live on an island which is about the size of California. 500 people per square mile live in Tokyo. (24/7 Traffic) I believe that is the most condense population in the world (it was). This is something to seriously think about, for those wanting to become a permanet resident of Japan. I don't think I could stand it. I would have to live in Hokkaido (SP?) or somewhere rural. I just can't understand how the people of Tokyo could stand being that crowded together even with their train system and info structure. I live in Minnesota that has a population of about 4.8 million and I think its crowded in the metro area. For the many members on this board who live in the california area just image your guys's traffic and congestion if 90 million people where added. Its mind boggling. Just something for those of you thinking about moving to Japan.

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Oct 2nd, '05, 05:54

jholic wrote:i don't think an associate's is worthless. if you can speak/read/write jp very well, there are many companies that would want you (IMO). please check out some job search places (especially for japanese companies), and see how far your resume can get you. then, you'll have a better idea on what you need to work on.

So, having an associates degree isn't really worthless? I'm moving there in 2 years as soon as I graduate from college, which by then I'll have my associates degree. But, where exactly would I do a job search for Japan? I'm going into the IT industry and want to know if there are such jobs for foreigners in Japan.

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote:I think the decline in Japan's popullation is a good thing or any country's decline in population is a good thing (6.5 billion people is enough). 126 million people live on an island which is about the size of California. 500 people per square mile live in Tokyo. (24/7 Traffic) I believe that is the most condense population in the world (it was). This is something to seriously think about, for those wanting to become a permanet resident of Japan. I don't think I could stand it. I would have to live in Hokkaido (SP?) or somewhere rural. I just can't understand how the people of Tokyo could stand being that crowded together even with their train system and info structure. I live in Minnesota that has a population of about 4.8 million and I think its crowded in the metro area. For the many members on this board who live in the california area just image your guys's traffic and congestion if 90 million people where added. Its mind boggling. Just something for those of you thinking about moving to Japan.

I agree. Tokyo has so much people and I heard it's extremely expensive for a small apartment. I wouldn't want to live there either. I'm probably going to live somewhere like in Osaka or Yokohama.

^^ So happy to know that this topic is growing with so many opinions.

tonydesu · Post by **tonydesu** » Oct 2nd, '05, 08:56

Keeper of hells gate2 wrote: I think the decline in Japan's popullation is a good thing or any country's decline in population is a good thing (6.5 billion people is enough). 126 million people live on an island which is about the size of California. 500 people per square mile live in Tokyo. (24/7 Traffic) I believe that is the most condense population in the world (it was). This is something to seriously think about, for those wanting to become a permanet resident of Japan. I don't think I could stand it. I would have to live in Hokkaido (SP?) or somewhere rural. I just can't understand how the people of Tokyo could stand being that crowded together even with their train system and info structure. I live in Minnesota that has a population of about 4.8 million and I think its crowded in the metro area. For the many members on this board who live in the california area just image your guys's traffic and congestion if 90 million people where added. Its mind boggling. Just something for those of you thinking about moving to Japan.

Actually, from what I've read, the population decline is a real problem for them. It's not good when you have too many old people and not enough young workers to support the economy when they retire. Also, its not like a declining birth rate will make Tokyo any less populated. People are still going to flock there and other big cities because that's where all the jobs are. I'd imagine there would just be an increase in ghost towns around the country.

But yea, Tokyo's really crowded and tiring, especially if you're not used to big city life. It's fun staying for a while though, like a year or less. I mean, the first time you see train conductors shoving people into trains its pretty amusing. Kind of fun at first, like those "how many people can we stuff into a shower stall" dorm contests. But getting shoved into a train like a can of sardines everyday gets pretty grueling...

20centuryboy · Post by **20centuryboy** » Oct 2nd, '05, 09:34

albertoavena wrote:I agree. Tokyo has so much people and I heard it's extremely expensive for a small apartment. I wouldn't want to live there either. I'm probably going to live somewhere like in Osaka or Yokohama.

You are really daydreaming your future life aren't you?

Osaka is really nice. My favourite city so far. People are really different from Tokyo. It's really more animated and atmosphere may be more relaxed.

Post by **jholic** » Oct 2nd, '05, 10:29

albertoavena wrote:So, having an associates degree isn't really worthless? I'm moving there in 2 years as soon as I graduate from college, which by then I'll have my associates degree. But, where exactly would I do a job search for Japan? I'm going into the IT industry and want to know if there are such jobs for foreigners in Japan.

EDUCATION IS NEVER WORTHLESS. an associates may not be worth as much (to some) as a bachelor's. a bachelor's may not be worth as much as a master's, doctorate, etc. but education is important.

when i first replied to your post, i tried to think of the one website which i used to search for jobs on. i finally remembered it:

www.careercross.com

you'll want to find more websites like this. an associates may not get you too far, but if your jp is very good, i'm pretty sure they may overlook your lack of a bachelor's. if your jp is not as good, you may want to invest a few more years in your education. it'll be worth it in the long run. believe me.

good luck to you!

Agent007 · Post by **Agent007** » Oct 2nd, '05, 16:27

Well, you guys have encouraged me. Thanks for that. As of now, my Japanese isn't bad for 2yrs of self-study, but it's no where near good enough. But I'm not planning on looking for a job right now. A more immediate goal is to work on my Japanese, and take the JLPT. Anyway, thanks for the honest replies. I appreciate them.

As for living there, I spent a week in Kobe. I don't know how that ranks on city size/business, but I didn't have a problem w/ it. I think if I had a choice, I'd want to live in that area. It's nice, and I have some friends there now.

spacecommand · Post by **spacecommand** » Oct 2nd, '05, 16:51

500 people per square mile live in Tokyo. (24/7 Traffic) I believe that is the most condense population in the world (it was).

Japan and Tokyo usually ranks somewhere in the 10th-20th spot in country/ city world Population density.

Néa Vanille · Post by **Néa Vanille** » Oct 2nd, '05, 16:57

I don't know about jobs, but my Japanese boyfriend's family has no problems whatsoever accepting a European girl as their son's possible future wife. Of course, their daughter is already married to a Canadian so I guess it's fair to say they are a really open-minded family.

I hear outmarrying is a far bigger deal in Korea than it is in Japan, though it can also be problematic in Japan of course. You guys looking for Japanese girls have it easier though - most families have an easier time giving their daughters to foreigners than they have giving their sons, because sons are supposed to carry on the blood line. I think Japanese women marrying foreigners is getting more and more common and I've rarely hard of families outwardly saying no to such a relationship. Of course Japan is still a very homogenic country so be prepared to stick out like a sore thumb at all and any times.

tonydesu · Post by **tonydesu** » Oct 2nd, '05, 17:44

Agent007 wrote:Well, you guys have encouraged me. Thanks for that. As of now, my Japanese isn't bad for 2yrs of self-study, but it's no where near good enough. But I'm not planning on looking for a job right now. A more immediate goal is to work on my Japanese, and take the JLPT. Anyway, thanks for the honest replies. I appreciate them.

As for living there, I spent a week in Kobe. I don't know how that ranks on city size/business, but I didn't have a problem w/ it. I think if I had a choice, I'd want to live in that area. It's nice, and I have some friends there now.

There's a saying that the first place you go abroad to, is the one you fall in love with. For me, I first went to Gifu, Japan which is total Inaka! BUt hell, I loved that place... Anyways, gl with your studies, and I'm sure you'll make it into Japan someday.

Agent007 · Post by **Agent007** » Oct 2nd, '05, 20:10

Thanks.

I honestly haven't been to many places in Japan, so I don't know how much I would like/dislike them. I've only been to Kobe, Kyoto and a few outlying areas. I do like the more rural/suburban areas around Kobe, though. Not only could I probably not afford anything in a major city, but I've always lived in the suburbs out here, so I don't know that I'd want to even if I could.

Ratboy · Post by **Ratboy** » Oct 3rd, '05, 02:44

Hello everyone,

To add to the topic, I can tell you that Japan is changing. I have been here living and working for about 4 years. I have lived and worked both in rural and urban areas, in both eastern and western japan. I have worked both in the eikaiwa's and in the public school system. I have taught classes at University too (although that was outsourced).

The market for English teachers is becoming more and more competitive. A lot of companies will not hire people without education degrees. That doesn't necessarily mean that those people are good teachers, but companies are looking towards that as a mark of quality.
If you want to come here with your bachelors (which is what I did) your best bet is with an eikawa. You have to put in a lot of time and effort but you do learn stuff. If you want to work in public schools the JET program is your best bet, but other private ALT companies are good too. A lot Boards of Education are phasing out the number of JET teachers they hire. You can always change jobs once you get here, the initial visa is the one that is hard to get.

As for the relationship portion of this thread, I can say that if you are looking to meet a Japanese woman, you will only be dating the sub group who are interested in foreigners. If the daughter is interested in foreign people then she usually has a fairly supportive and open family. Of course this isn't always the case. I have been with my girlfriend for about 3.5 years and she still hasn't told her parents we are dating.
A lot of it depends on age. If the girl is young then most parents hope she will marry a Japanese man, if she is around 30 or older then marrying anybody is okay (30 is kind of like the expiratory date in the eyes of parents).The average Japanese women is not interested. Not only due to the communication problem but the monetary one as well. They don't believe foreign men to be capable of supporting a lifestyle they want. (since most households in Japan are single income with the wife staying at home..... and that usually starts long before pregnancy).

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Oct 3rd, '05, 18:50

20centuryboy wrote:
albertoavena wrote:I agree. Tokyo has so much people and I heard it's extremely expensive for a small apartment. I wouldn't want to live there either. I'm probably going to live somewhere like in Osaka or Yokohama.
You are really daydreaming your future life aren't you?

Osaka is really nice. My favourite city so far. People are really different from Tokyo. It's really more animated and atmosphere may be more relaxed.

It does seem like I'm daydreaming my future but, I really want to make this a reality..

I was looking for someplace like Osaka... Not so much stress from crowded areas.

Ratboy wrote:As for the relationship portion of this thread, I can say that if you are looking to meet a Japanese woman, you will only be dating the sub group who are interested in foreigners. If the daughter is interested in foreign people then she usually has a fairly supportive and open family. Of course this isn't always the case. I have been with my girlfriend for about 3.5 years and she still hasn't told her parents we are dating.
A lot of it depends on age. If the girl is young then most parents hope she will marry a Japanese man, if she is around 30 or older then marrying anybody is okay (30 is kind of like the expiratory date in the eyes of parents).The average Japanese women is not interested. Not only due to the communication problem but the monetary one as well. They don't believe foreign men to be capable of supporting a lifestyle they want. (since most households in Japan are single income with the wife staying at home..... and that usually starts long before pregnancy).

This kind of discourages me a little bit to date someone Japanese. Not much though. The reason being is that, like you said, if the parents aren't supportive, they probably wouldn't accept me and I'd probably get married in my late-'20s or early '30s, maybe later. I hope that's not the case though.. Japan's a progressive country so hopefully some parents will change there views. Once I get citizenship there, hopefully I'll be treated alot better..or so I've heard..

hinoai · Post by **hinoai** » Oct 4th, '05, 12:57

I wonder what the other side is... I wouldn't mind getting married to a Japanese man, but I've heard little to no stories about women dating men here. It's usually because (from what I've heard) that foreign men like japanese women because they're 'submissive' (a stereotype that I HATE, but is nonetheless often true in Japan), and Japanese men don't like foreign women because they're usually a lot more headstrong than Japanese women.

But then what about the poor people like me who like cute little tiny japanese men? Ahhhh I need to meet someone who's done it.

albertoavena>>>>

I was under the impression that according to the government, is that for an American in order to get a working visa (which you HAVE to have to be allowed to work legally here), you HAVE to have a bachelor's degree (in any subject). Maybe I was misinformed, but that's what I've heard time and time over again. Some other countries are let come over with just associates, but from what I understand, because of the tough American immigration laws, Japan retaliated by making their working laws for Americans tougher. Does anyone have an official link about this?

A lot of people have been recommending Eikaiwas in Japan. I used to work for one (NOVA, for about 8 months). Honestly, I overall was NOT pleased with the company and left as soon as another opportunity presented itself (I am still living in Tokyo with no plans to ever leave), but I know some people who love the company. I think that most eikaiwas are alike, and really it comes down to why you want to come to Japan. If you want to come to enjoy things like festivals, then an Eikaiwa may not be the best solution, as they often have you work on most/all of the public holidays and on Sundays, which is when most of the cultural festivals are held. If you want to come to travel, then an Eikaiwa is good, because often they're very flexible after you get your vacation time and you can travel in the off-seasons, therefore making everything less crowded and usually cheaper.

If you're coming because of the pop culture and to go to concerts and events and things like that, I do NOT suggest an Eikaiwa. I was miserable, having to skip a lot of events or just plain call in to work because I couldn't get the time off. I wasn't realy inspired at all by my company. But it's really your call.

Also, I suggest thinking about whether you really want to teach english. Yes, it's an easy job. Yes, it's an easy way into the country (this is why I took this route), but if you're not enthusiastic about teaching, eventually it will wear thin. ^.^ Just something to think about! I really HATE teaching english, so I'm feverishly working to get into my chosen field here. The language barrier is big, but there are a lot of opportunities for foreigners if you just look around!!!

I really hope that you are able to make a good decision! Keep us informed!! ^___^ If you come to Tokyo, I'm always happy to hang out with new people! ^^ I will always be here!

Also, on discrimination.. I heard from old coworkers that they've seen bars that don't allow foreigners, and been told sometimes that the bar is too full for them when it's not. I don't go to bars often, so I've never experienced it myself though. But I WAS refused entrance to a love hotel once, in Shibuya of all places! O.o My friends and I wanted to go in one just to see what they were like, so my friend walked in to the lobby, and as soon as she did, she was met with the angry old clerk shouting, "If you don't understand Japanese, get out!!!" In japanese! ^_^;;;; They don't make 'em all smart, I suppose. ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; She just said "wa-ka-ta!" and walked out and we had a good **** fest outside about him. ^^;;; dur.

20centuryboy · Post by **20centuryboy** » Oct 4th, '05, 14:08

well, honestly. I think that the "submissive" japanese women is an untrue cliché. For what I can tell. Japanese women tend to look like that but I think that they are often very strongly minded in fact. If you disagree with a japanese woman, she will try to avoid any conflict or fight but if you goes on and stick to the discussion you will face a wall! a wall of concrete!!!

and after that it's useless to continue.

With french woman for exemple, you can keep on and have a chance to finally mess up their mind !!! There is no limit to the discussion with a french woman, with a japanese when it's finished it's finished

spacecommand · Post by **spacecommand** » Oct 5th, '05, 03:06

So, having an associates degree isn't really worthless? I'm moving there in 2 years as soon as I graduate from college, which by then I'll have my associates degree. But, where exactly would I do a job search for Japan? I'm going into the IT industry and want to know if there are such jobs for foreigners in Japan.

From my understanding If you are a U.S. Citizen one will need a bachelors (4 year degree) to meet one of the the immigration requirements (Immigration, not employer) in order to get a work visa.

albertoavena · Post by **albertoavena** » Oct 5th, '05, 05:06

spacecommand wrote:
So, having an associates degree isn't really worthless? I'm moving there in 2 years as soon as I graduate from college, which by then I'll have my associates degree. But, where exactly would I do a job search for Japan? I'm going into the IT industry and want to know if there are such jobs for foreigners in Japan.
From my understanding If you are a U.S. Citizen one will need a bachelors (4 year degree) to meet one of the the immigration requirements (Immigration, not employer) in order to get a work visa.

Really? So i'd have to go another 2 years so I can live in Japan? I was plannig on moving right after I graduated which I would recieve my associates in 2 years..

I guess I have to continue my education..Oh well, maybe it'll give me more time to study Japanese..

hinoai wrote:A lot of people have been recommending Eikaiwas in Japan. I used to work for one (NOVA, for about 8 months). Honestly, I overall was NOT pleased with the company and left as soon as another opportunity presented itself (I am still living in Tokyo with no plans to ever leave), but I know some people who love the company. I think that most eikaiwas are alike, and really it comes down to why you want to come to Japan. If you want to come to enjoy things like festivals, then an Eikaiwa may not be the best solution, as they often have you work on most/all of the public holidays and on Sundays, which is when most of the cultural festivals are held. If you want to come to travel, then an Eikaiwa is good, because often they're very flexible after you get your vacation time and you can travel in the off-seasons, therefore making everything less crowded and usually cheaper.

If you're coming because of the pop culture and to go to concerts and events and things like that, I do NOT suggest an Eikaiwa. I was miserable, having to skip a lot of events or just plain call in to work because I couldn't get the time off. I wasn't realy inspired at all by my company. But it's really your call.

Also, I suggest thinking about whether you really want to teach english. Yes, it's an easy job. Yes, it's an easy way into the country (this is why I took this route), but if you're not enthusiastic about teaching, eventually it will wear thin. ^.^ Just something to think about! I really HATE teaching english, so I'm feverishly working to get into my chosen field here. The language barrier is big, but there are a lot of opportunities for foreigners if you just look around!!!

I really hope that you are able to make a good decision! Keep us informed!! ^___^ If you come to Tokyo, I'm always happy to hang out with new people! ^^ I will always be here!

Also, on discrimination.. I heard from old coworkers that they've seen bars that don't allow foreigners, and been told sometimes that the bar is too full for them when it's not. I don't go to bars often, so I've never experienced it myself though. But I WAS refused entrance to a love hotel once, in Shibuya of all places! O.o My friends and I wanted to go in one just to see what they were like, so my friend walked in to the lobby, and as soon as she did, she was met with the angry old clerk shouting, "If you don't understand Japanese, get out!!!" In japanese! ^_^;;;; They don't make 'em all smart, I suppose. ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; She just said "wa-ka-ta!" and walked out and we had a good **** fest outside about him. ^^;;; dur.

Thanks for the advice.

I don't think of becoming a school teacher though. Even though that is probably the easiest way to getting a job in Japan... It just doesn't appeal to me.
I'm not really going to college for that anyway...

I'm going mosty for the culture and to experience something new, such as , how they live and ethics and such. I guess you can say I'm going for the "pop culture"...I hope my job doesn't affect that too much. I don't want to over-work as Japan is known for, or so I've heard. I don't want to stereotype anyone. I want to find a good job that will allow me the freedom to have a good schedule..

As for discrimination, that's probably the only thing I dislike about Japan right now. Sorry to hear about your friend, I hope I don't have the same experience. I've posted this site before but I'll post it again: http://www.debito.org/ It explains how Japan is changing and the discrimination laws are not as bad as they used to be.

^^I'll be sure to keep you informed! If I ever go to Tokyo, maybe we'll see each other.

20centuryboy wrote:well, honestly. I think that the "submissive" japanese women is an untrue cliché. For what I can tell. Japanese women tend to look like that but I think that they are often very strongly minded in fact. If you disagree with a japanese woman, she will try to avoid any conflict or fight but if you goes on and stick to the discussion you will face a wall! a wall of concrete!! ! and after that it's useless to continue.

I agree and really admire them for that. It's always useless to continue and I like how they try to avoid conflict. I'm the same way.

-Sorry for quoting so much..

g0tchew · Post by **g0tchew** » Oct 5th, '05, 07:11

just wanted to add my own thoughts on this thread here. i'm chinese-american and my girlfriend is japanese. there was an entry earlier in this thread saying how 'foreigners' are limited to japanese girls that are interested in 'foreign lands' or whatnot. you guys got it lucky. being an asian foreinger is even worse if you're wanting to date a japanese girl. even my girlfriend tells me 'japanese girls don't like chinese guys'. at least you doods got a following.

oh and...

[quote="20centuryboy"]well, honestly. I think that the "submissive" japanese women is an untrue cliché. For what I can tell. Japanese women tend to look like that but I think that they are often very strongly minded in fact. If you disagree with a japanese woman, she will try to avoid any conflict or fight but if you goes on and stick to the discussion you will face a wall! a wall of concrete!!!

and after that it's useless to continue.

you're right about that wall. that wall of concrete! my girlfriend does that to me all the time. but she is quite submissive..to the point of annoyance. i've only dated american girls (asian and white) before, and they were all quite feisty. i like my women opinionated and having a little attitude.

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