SINGLES RANTING THREAD (Dating Advice)

[Lantis]

hey guys ^^
what do u guys do if u want to win a girls heart?
im kind clumsy concerning dating girls or get to know them...
i often go to asian meeting where i meet many girls,but
i cant get a word out of my mouth...outwards it seems that i dont have interest or that im a player, but in reality im just a little bit shy.
so anyone have the same problem and have it solved?
or what are the best flirt-tips?

[Betrayal]

My best advice is (not that i am any better lol)

*Be yourself*
because you don't want to be something that you are not and later on regretting it because she might think you are someone that you really aren't

Many people grow out of shyness so dn't worry too much.

[Karo]

You are a bit shy??
hmm... I'm terribly shy. I can#t speak a word to people of the same gender without getting nervous...
But I fund a boyfriend... because we wrote e-mails first and got to know eachother. Otherwise I'd still be single... ^^

Betrayal is right. Just be yourself. Try your best and you'll find someone... ^-^

[Atomic]

You should move this to the single's ranting thread.. anways.. when they speak, or talk, just look at them straight in the eye.. Make it seem like they're the only one in the room. Do the same thing when you're talking to them.. don't look down at the ground, act like you're interested in them.. Then ask them out.. ask for their #.. sure you'll probably going to get turned down.. but for every 3-4 rejection there'll always be someone who's willing to say.. Sure why not.. might be fun..

[yt_toshi]

Betrayal is right. Just be yourself. Try your best and you'll find someone... ^-^

At first, when I read what you posted, I though you were implying that betraying someone was o.k.?

However, I understood that there was another user named Betrayal and I also agree with Betrayal's comment.

[Xi@h]

Excuse me if I get a bit nerdy, but I think there's already a thread where you can ask advice which is the Single Ranting Thread (Dating Advice) Part 2? Am I right? Correct me if I'm wrong

[yt_toshi]

Excuse me if I get a bit nerdy, but I think there's already a thread where you can ask advice which is the Single Ranting Thread (Dating Advice) Part 2? Am I right? Correct me if I'm wrong

You're right. Remember, there are those that don't look carefully when posting something and that's why the mods will lock and place this thread in the right spot.

[Xi@h]

You're right. Remember, there are those that don't look carefully when posting something and that's why the mods will lock and place this thread in the right spot.

True, very true. I feel sorry for the mods and for myself (since I'm a staff member of another board), you can't help it. Everytime, there will be one member that doesn't care using the search engine or go through the thread carefully.

[yt_toshi]

True, very true. I feel sorry for the mods and for myself (since I'm a staff member of another board), you can't help it. Everytime, there will be one member that doesn't care using the search engine or go through the thread carefully.

This happens all the time when new members come along and either don't read the guidelines that were set or ignore it all together. I'm sure being a moderator is never an easy task, but someone has to do it.

[adriansyc]

i also facing same problem la so we all need more GAMBATEH to reach our goal. n i also believe to be our self lik all other ppl say

[Mythrel]

What the hell.... Atomic... *shakes head in disapointment*....

Valcun I hate to say it but technically you are a player. Maybe not like in the sense of a guy who uses women for lust but you are playing a game with these girls and even ranking them so that technically makes you a player. You shouldn't try to see women as numbers. I mean like how long can you play this game? How much research can you do on women? and is that even moral? I want you to meet someone but not in your head thinking of every move like its a chess game. Just let love blossom and go with it. I am begging you man or you will become something you don't think you are. I need a giant virtual fan to hit people over the head with sometimes. Maybe I am being to harsh on you since you haven't done anything yet but I am only trying to prevent it I have a friend who I have only known for about a year and a half but its strange. Its like I've known him my whole life, anyways before I met him he used to think of love the same way. He can walk into a bar (ive witnessed it) or anywhere and women flock to him. He went from one woman to another and it got to the point where he believed he could never love just one woman. Well one night he was in a club (go figure ) and he helped this girl from find her purse and he ended up finding it for her and she thanked him, so anyway he went on his way and made his way down to the dance floor and he heard this girl behind him say ''thats him'' and he turned around and say this girl he had just helped with 3 of her friends. Well when he first saw her friend he was struck with something he hadn't felt before. So they talked and he walked her home that night and she invited him in and at that moment he did what he wouldn't normally do and said no. He gave her his phone number and went home. She ended up calling him the next day and they became history. He believes in his heart that they are soulmates and felt that the minute he laid eyes on her. He now believes in love and can't imagion a life without her. Edit: I also want to say like I never knew him when he had the player mentality but the friend I know now, I can't even see it in him. I really look up to him.

Now lol I am not saying you are like him Valcun, I am just saying. If you view woman as objects they will truely become objects. I don't think you are that type of person.

[Xi@h]

Mythrel, "le bourreaux des coeurs" is back Howdy mate? Have you already find the one?

[Mythrel]

hehe I never listened in french class and there is a special girl out there but I don't think she even notices me that way. I am to much of a coward to ever confess

[Xi@h]

Then you should learn french and impress her!! Who knows that she might waiting for you to do the first step :d

[Atomic]

What the hell.... Atomic... *shakes head in disapointment*....

Am I looking for a long term relationship? Always.. can this girl be it? Sure.. but more than likely no..
Do I take sex this lightly? Yes.. why? Cause I'm surrounded by girls who are all players.. Majority of my female friends have serveral play things, (it's actually the guys who are loyal) so I just live in the same circle as them.

[Valcun]

Ok.. since I've been dishing out advice left and right on this thread, let me tell you about my fooked up situation..

Started out last week, when I gave this chick my #.. she gives me a call and we had dinner 2 nites ago.. We do the standard chit chat about our lives etc.. you know shiz that you talk about so you won't have a dead void into the conversation.. that ackward silence.. well anyways as we got into talking she tells me she lives with 4 roommates.. I just automatically assumed she lived with 4 girls cause she's still in school or that she still lived with her parents.... The dinner went well did a lot of flirting, KINO etc...and we made plans to meet up at my place the next morning..

She comes by my condo in the morning.. we get into more talking/flirting, and I asked her how many bedrooms her condo has... She tells me it's a 2 bedroom condo with a den.. It still hasn't enterned my head that SHE might be living with her boyfriend.. why? Cause since she is Filipinio, I thought she might be the conservative type.. So I ask her if it's only 2 bedrooms where the fook do you sleep? This is when she told me she has a boyfriend, and the other room is also occupied by another couple..
LOL.. I was so surprise I started laughing my ass off and ask her point blank.. then what the fook are you doing here? LOL.. She tells me it's more of a living arangement than a relationship with her boyfrined.. i tell her, your boy better not find out what I'm about to do to you LOL, cause I don't want any drama in my life.

So am I still seeing this chick? Yes. Not in the convenstional sense of me wanting her to be my girlfriend.. It's just lust in my part.
So there it is.. my current messed up situation.. I've never felt so used in my life before, and part of me saying DONT DO IT, it's so wrong.. but the majority of me is saying.. PERFECT SITUATION. TAKE IT TAKE IT..
Female "playas" are the best kind..(as long as she's not your gf). They just straight out say they just want sex.. not a relationship..
I just hope I don't fall for this chick, because I REALLY REALLY don't want drama entering my life. Another funny thing about this situation is, while we were in bed, she was giving me pointers on how to pick up filipino girls cause she knows I'm going to Manila in 3 weeks. I was just ROFL my ass off in my head with that.

Hehe dude, when you go to manila. All the flips are going to hit on you so they can use you to get out of the philipines. Happens all the time. Anyway, back to your situation. Your phases were executed BEAUTIFULLY. I love the time bridge to, perfect execution. BUT I hate to say it, I never really bumped in to a flaya before. I guess in my opinion you should learn from it and know how to take care of flaya's. They know the game too, which sucks butt. But what you need to do is remember, Your Alpha. If I was you, use a pivot dude. Make her aware that you have OTHER women. That would probably be my tactic against Flayas. Well GL dude, Nice executions man

@ Mythrel
I hate to say it Myth, I'm not a player. Your correct one somethins and incorrect on others. Yes I do see women as objects and that I do play it like a game of chess. But! I only see womens as objects until I can get closer and see their emotions and personality before I continue on. Remember, You have to have a plan to get you IN or you will never find out. Know what I am saying? For example, lets say there is a party going on and I'm out side not invited standing in the rain watching the party go on. I'm never going to find out what the party is like until I get IN. Same analogy towards women .
Ok! So now to the incorrect. Your friend is probably the same as me. But! If he didn't gain the expeirence he did from meeting all the other women... He couldn't of pulled it off with katie. Do you see what I mean? I am here to gain expeirence in the field of women. SO when I finally meet the one! I will know what to do. In this case your friend luckily found the one and knew what to do in order to suceed in a relationship with her. I can't always rely on just that "one chance" and screwing it. I have to go out there and find it.

Also! See? I told you the most beautiful smart intelligent women you are going to find are in the Clubs

[Valcun]

Even though I know the answer, I can not tell you. Because it will takes months for you to finally understand everything. Plus Love takes time, It can not simple be won in a matter of hours, days or even months. Love is a untameable emotion. But if you know how love works, then you will know the answer. Plus there are different ways of winning a girls heart. Its just you need to choose the right one that fits you best.

[ryobreak]

Well, are there any signs that she may have any feelings towards you? Have you ever seen her looking in your general direction? If so, why don't you smile and wave one of those times? Or you can be a bit more direct and just greet her when you bump into her somewhere.

[anglvue]

every girl is different but the fact of the matter is you need to be yourself. if you're shy, don't worry too much about it. if a girl really likes you, she'll wait for you to say the first words.

[slippyepic]

Looks like this thread will be locked anytime now, but what the hey . . .

Basic Gist

1) Being yourself is actually kinda overrated. And it's the wrong mindset. Obviously, you should be well-groomed (if not fashionable) and possibly in shape, but projecting an image, even "the real you", is completely misguided.

2) Chemistry is everything. Therefore, everything is about interaction and communication. Chemistry is connection.

3) It's not about projecting a confident image, but about being confident enough to interact and communicate with the other person clearly and consistently. When you connect with her, you're in.

Basic tenets

4) Eye contact is most important. As long as you can mantain eye contact with the other person, you have a shot. If you have problems doing this (or find the other person intimidating), then focus on just one eye of that person. You'll also notice it will be easier to talk to the other person if you try to focus on just one eye, rather than both..

5) Listen. Listen really well. There's many, many web sites dedicated to what this "listening" really means (and, for me, I think this is by far the toughest part, since you need to learn about her without making it an interrogation.) Make her your topic. The key thing isn't remembering the details, but the feelings associated with those details. And this is also a good time to evaluate whether this person is right for you.

6) From what you heard, then tell her what she wants to hear in her own words, and with her own emotions. Basically, steps 5 and 6 are part of a circular conversational process. There may be humor; there may be seriousness; the convo may be light or heavy; the interaction may be casual or aggressive, but more or less, this process of call and response is the process of connection. And again, there's various different schools of thought that go into how steps 5 and 6 should be done. In fact, if you watch interview shows like Charlie Rose, you'll notice that he does the same thing.

7) Finally -- and this is essentially what flirting is -- touch her. Touch her hand, her arms, her shoulder, her knee, her feet, whatever. Some people argue that physical contact should be made as soon as possible in the conversation, but if it's with somebody you actually know, you may want to wait until the conversation is flying. Physical contact should be casual or simple (something as simple as shaking their hand when you meet, or talking with your hands, and then lowering your arm to brush their shoulder.) But in any case, you want to start it early, because it's the most important signal for letting the other person know that you want to be more than friends. If you do steps 4-6 but with no physical contact, you'll end up being her friend.

Anyhoo . . .if this person is somebody you pass by often, I would for now, just make eye contact with her (make sure her eyes find yours), smile, and say hello, and then walk by. The trick is to do this virtually everytime you see her. Her own curiosity will build up as well.

Then, when you feel fairly comfortable with making and mantaining eye contact with her, go straight up to her and start conversation.

[Rice]

Looks like this thread will be locked anytime now, but what the hey . . .

Basic Gist

1) Being yourself is actually kinda overrated. And it's the wrong mindset. Obviously, you should be well-groomed (if not fashionable) and possibly in shape, but projecting an image, even "the real you", is completely misguided.

2) Chemistry is everything. Therefore, everything is about interaction and communication. Chemistry is connection.

3) It's not about projecting a confident image, but about being confident enough to interact and communicate with the other person clearly and consistently. When you connect with her, you're in.

Basic tenets

4) Eye contact is most important. As long as you can mantain eye contact with the other person, you have a shot. If you have problems doing this (or find the other person intimidating), then focus on just one eye of that person. You'll also notice it will be easier to talk to the other person if you try to focus on just one eye, rather than both..

5) Listen. Listen really well. There's many, many web sites dedicated to what this "listening" really means (and, for me, I think this is by far the toughest part, since you need to learn about her without making it an interrogation.) Make her your topic. The key thing isn't remembering the details, but the feelings associated with those details. And this is also a good time to evaluate whether this person is right for you.

6) From what you heard, then tell her what she wants to hear in her own words, and with her own emotions. Basically, steps 5 and 6 are part of a circular conversational process. There may be humor; there may be seriousness; the convo may be light or heavy; the interaction may be casual or aggressive, but more or less, this process of call and response is the process of connection. And again, there's various different schools of thought that go into how steps 5 and 6 should be done. In fact, if you watch interview shows like Charlie Rose, you'll notice that he does the same thing.

7) Finally -- and this is essentially what flirting is -- touch her. Touch her hand, her arms, her shoulder, her knee, her feet, whatever. Some people argue that physical contact should be made as soon as possible in the conversation, but if it's with somebody you actually know, you may want to wait until the conversation is flying. Physical contact should be casual or simple (something as simple as shaking their hand when you meet, or talking with your hands, and then lowering your arm to brush their shoulder.) But in any case, you want to start it early, because it's the most important signal for letting the other person know that you want to be more than friends. If you do steps 4-6 but with no physical contact, you'll end up being her friend.

Anyhoo . . .if this person is somebody you pass by often, I would for now, just make eye contact with her (make sure her eyes find yours), smile, and say hello, and then walk by. The trick is to do this virtually everytime you see her. Her own curiosity will build up as well.

Then, when you feel fairly comfortable with making and mantaining eye contact with her, go straight up to her and start conversation.

Very good advice, I especially agree with the "Being yourself is actually kinda overrated. "

[flynvballer]

DONT TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT URSELF

[Kathleen]

To quote from Densha Otoko: "Watashi, onna dakedo..."
I read only a few posts but I think slippyepic's advices are probably the best. Really, really neat actually. Especially the thing about the eye contact is so damn straight! Sure, girls want guys who'd do anything for them. But at first most of us prefer to have less-stalker-ish admirers.
I only disagree about being natural. Not to say Betrayal (gosh, I first thought too Karo was approving betrayal's ^^;) or slippyepic are completely wrong. It's more like something between both's advices. Being natural is like the greatest thing, and once you get a cute girl interested in you while being totally yourself you can be sure she really likes you. BUT (sorry to say this) not everyone has the charisma to "afford" being 100% themselves all the time. There are things you ought to keep in mind, like don't be arrogant, don't say tasteless things (there once was a guy that asked me out over and over again - I found some excuse each time - but at the same time he raved about "big titts" and stuff as if that'd make him any attractive - NEVER ever copy that attitude, guys! ), don't be pathetic like whining about being unpopular with girls or anything.
Instead you ought to listen to the girl, ask her questions and let her speak (girls love to speak), also definitely wash your hair! You say this goes without saying? Well, there sure were quite a lot of fatty haired guys that didn't seem to understand why I wasn't all too thrilled about flirting with them. It's really gross when guys stink like sweat, too.
I'm not saying you need some expensive cologne or that you ought to wear a tux. Just make sure you are "alright". Your common sense will help you figuring out what's okay and what's a no-no.
There's isn't something like an incantation about how to hit on girls, either. It mostly starts with really silly phrases actually. Like "Is this seat still free?" or "Kind of late today, aren't they?"

[Mythrel]

Hey Valcun, you are a bright kid. I obviously can't say anything to you to make you see it. I don't think I or anyone else can help you but you. I mean I can give my opinions and advice but its meaningless if it falls on def ears. I dunno why I even post here Maybe I should go back to the century I came from. The whole point to that story was it wasn't with all the other women he gained that knowledge it was her who changed him. One woman is all it took. What I don't get is you don't like it when a girl comes up to you because of your looks, but you have just ranked 5 women in terms of looks and are going after the cutest? and the bus incident let me guess, she was hot? Again I know everything now I am trying to tell you to reflect on isn't going to mean anything to you but when you meet that special girl oneday (I hope you do) you will finally mature and see. I have to let go of your hand and live your life and make your own mistakes. Good luck.


Atomic, I don't know what to tell you. She probably takes relationships lightly so I wouldn't be to suprised if she pulls the same stuff on you. It takes some messed up morals to believe that cheating is nothing.

[Doctorpink]

I RECOMMEND

david deangelo....
www.DoubleYourDating.com

his tips are for BEAUTIFULL AND EXPERIENCED white GIRLS..!!!

so if u want to use it.. adapt it... dont do it by the book!

UNDERSTAND his way.. then use it in YOUR OWN WAY!

fast tips to get girls.. talk to them like they were boys but just be a bit more gentle and talk about what they wanna talk about....
anyway.. good luck!

[Lantis]

sorry for opening this thread!
its ok if this thread gets closed.. ><

but though i have read all the posts and i know most of the things..but it still wont work ^^
but there are also interesting views of you ^^ funny
whatever...just wait and see i guess^^
thanks u guys

[slippyepic]

Kathleen speaks the truth, guys. In HYD speak, look into a woman's eyes like Donmyoji, listen to a woman like Rui, and smile like Kazuya. Erm, about that last one . . .

- I found some excuse each time - but at the same time he raved about "big titts" and stuff as if that'd make him any attractive - NEVER ever copy that attitude, guys! ), don't be pathetic like whining about being unpopular with girls or anything.

Very important. Try avoid being negative (i.e. slagging off the party.) Sarcasm is only good when in support of making a girl laugh. Many guys like to say negative things to feel confident in front of women, but nobody wants to be around unpleasant people. This seems obvious, but self-loathing/cynical banter is a defense mechanism often used by socially awkward teenage boys who listen to emo. ;) Most guys would be surprised how much they do it.

Really, the key thing is to be in the moment with her (confirence), what are the feelings she has for the things she wants (listening), speaking in her language (rapport), and finally making her feel like she can trust you physically.

I think, ultimately, you want to be natural. Yourself, but the best of yourself. But I also think men especially think they have to be a certain way or look a certain way or think a certain way. That is, after all, how they look at women. But what most men don't realize is that women's perception of other people begins with the interaction itself. Confidence is only a means to get a connection with another person. If you're overly diffident, you're not commjunicating. If you're not communicating, you're not connecting. If you're not connecting, you're not even there to her.

More on Eye Contact
The eye contact is really the most important thing, and in fact it also reflects your social maturity. Often said, that you can tell a person served in the military because, regardless of company or rank, they will always look you straight in the eye. Even if you were interested in a female with years or sophistication on you, the act of consistently and unwaveringly meeting eye contact makes you and that person on the same level.

It doesn't mean you should stare, though. And it can be an intense experience if you're not used to it. Generally, the protocol goes something like this . . .

1) When you first see her, stare into one of her eyes.

2) Don't smile. Don't even blink.

3) Wait until she acknowledges you. More often than not, they'll smile and give a quick "hi."

4) At that point, blink, smile, etc. Then introduce yourself.

5) Mantain eye contact with her through the conversation, but be casual.

I actually do the above often when I'm passing by people at work. Can't really avoid it actually, since our corridors are narrow.

[yt_toshi]

I RECOMMEND

david deangelo....
www.DoubleYourDating.com

his tips are for BEAUTIFULL AND EXPERIENCED white GIRLS..!!!

so if u want to use it.. adapt it... dont do it by the book!

UNDERSTAND his way.. then use it in YOUR OWN WAY!

fast tips to get girls.. talk to them like they were boys but just be a bit more gentle and talk about what they wanna talk about....
anyway.. good luck!

I remember this website, but I didn't think much of it at the time someone gave me a link. I may just check it out and see if it helps. Have you tried the site and has it worked for you?

[mienhmario]

Slap her and say your heart is mine! Thats how you win a girls heart. Just kidding.
I too am not good when it comes to girls. For me, the best way is just to avoid them.

Flirt? Makes people look like a p-boy.








I'm # 1

[Kathleen]

Wow, slippy. By any chance, is your real name Hitch?
What you wrote is plain fantastic. Although I was strangely enough reminded of some of Laura Maulvey's quotes when I read about what you wrote about what men and women expect from each other. (Not that you wrote anything like Mulvey.)
Sarcasm can really be a bad thing. Some guys think they are funny making jokes about the girl they are supposedly flirting with. Well, I personally don't like bootlicker. Just don't overdo it! I'd rather have someone who's honest than someone who says a bunch of cheesy stuff obviously knowing there are girls who go like "Awww" when someone says such lines in movies. Very important! Movie and real life = not the same. In fact those are two entirely different worlds. Slippy said something about the importance of communication as there won't be any connection without sending out certain signals, which is VERY true. Some of you d-addicts might still hope that real life can be like a drama where (let's keep HYD for depicting various characteristics and situations) there is a guy that just has to be there and every girl totally falls for him. Things like that don't happen in real life! In real life you've gotta do SOMETHING. And if there are such guys who attract everone's attention by just entering a room, it's not said they are that big of a shot either as they have still a long way to go to really win a woman's heart over. I personally don't believe in love at first sight.
Again about being natural, to sum up what I was trying to say earlier: Be yourself in terms of not pretending to be someone you're not. Don't tell lies! Don't try to appear interested in things when you're not. Be honest. If you don't care much for something, say it in a non-offending way. If you don't know much about it, ask her to tell you more about it.
Refuse to say dumb things like our Densha guy on his first date. If I was him I'd never admitted that "net-surfing" is my hobby. There are nicer ways to put it, like you like to have conversations or you're interested in technical stuff. In other words something that describes about the same but sounds way more attractive.

It doesn't mean you should stare, though.

Hahaha! That's hilarious, I almost choked on my water.
It's contrary to what you wrote earlier though. Doumyouji definitely does stare. Oh! That reminds me, I'd 10000 times prefer Doumyouji's or even Rui's smile over Kazuya's. That guy is just so freanking dumb. He might have been a cute kid but I could never watch him as a man. (I'm not a pedophile! ^^;)

3) Wait until she acknowledges you. More often than not, they'll smile and give a quick "hi."

Exactly! In the case you got one of like 100 girls who'd be totally unaffected don't take it personally and instead just make the best of it. Sadly enough there are such arrogant b*tches.

Btw, it's really unsexy if a guy forget's a girl's name. Makes him look like some wanna-be womanizer. Even if it's not the "wanna-be" it won't make him any more attractive.

[mienhmario]

You guys or girls are a bunch of loosers. I've dated plenty of girls and they always keep crawling back to me. For the guys they get so attracted to me, even they wanted to date me but i dont swing that way. You guys or girls need to find a life and go one with your life for whatever reason that may be. I'm Just kidding. Just be yourself.

When the load is too heavy, sometimes it is good to unload it.

[wOrm_LunG]

This reminds me of Densha Otoko, this thread, it's great... Nobody seems to be acknowledging me though, so that's fine, just wanted to say, that's supposedly why we all joined is about Dramas... anyway, peace and love, and remember to love yourself, so that you can love others. sometimes we forget we do have self love, but we all do, or else we would likely be somewhere else other than these forums, probably someplace really bad, and sad...
well, since I have no credibility here, no one will respond to this, so, sometimes when everything becomes everything, we want to say nothing even matters, but it does.
Jaa Mata

[slippyepic]

Btw, it's really unsexy if a guy forget's a girl's name. Makes him look like some wanna-be womanizer. Even if it's not the "wanna-be" it won't make him any more attractive.

Definitely, Katie. Erm, Kathleen. ;)

Although I strangely enough remembered some of Laura Maulvey's quotes when I read about what men and women expect from each other in your opinion.

There's some NLP in there, some Erich Fromm, and probably some Jane Austen there. But it's hard to talk about this and stay on the moral/ethical side of dating, because there's a much darker side to all this.

Things like that don't happen in real life! In real life you've gotta do SOMETHING. And if there are such guys who attract everone's attention by just entering a room, it's not said they are the big winner type either as they have still a long way to go to really win a woman's heart over. I personally don't believe in love on first glance.

That's right. Most of us are not going to have people chanting "EF-FO! EF-FO! EF-FO!" to throbbing house music when we enter the room. And, no, dressing up like Michael Jackson is NOT cool! But, if you watch carefully, you'll notice that even guys who get immediately noticed are already making eye contact and half-smiling with most of the girls in the room. Eye contact says nothing, but it starts everything.

Really guys, this eye contact stuff makes men out of the boys.

I'd rather have someone who's a bit rude but honest than someone who says a bunch of cheesy stuff obviously knowing there are girls who go like "Awww" when someone says such lines in movies.

Very much so. And this is the problem with the general advice that a guy needs to be a "gentleman", "a macho guy", a "smooth" guy, "cold/aloof", "aggressive", "passive", whatever. This presumes a guy will know beforehand exactly what a woman will want, and that she is looking for a certain image of a guy. In fact, they're more interested in having a certain kind of interaction with a guy, which THEN leads to setting up the kind of guy he is to her.

Going back to HYD, you basically have two different schools of male interaction here.

1) Donmyoji is a little rude, brusque, blunt, and a little domineering. Conventionally speaking, he should strike out with women. But, what we also notice about Donmyoji is that he's also an excellent listener and that he gives constant, uncensored feedback toward other people. And he always looks people straight in the eye. In other words, when he's interested in somebody else, the other person clearly feels that he or she has his undivided attention. Note, that it's not the same thing as admiration. Most women want to be admired or enjoy a little flattery, but moreover, they want to be understood. And if they sense the other person is genuinely trying to understand them (without malicious intentions), they will keep it going. In a real world situation, boorish, proud Donymoji is really an ideal mate, because he listens and honestly considers the opinion of his partner. Above all, he is willing to tell off his partner, though in the same language with which she speaks. Most women greatly respect this.

2) Rui is soft-spoken, graceful, "kind", and has excellent poise around other people. Conventionally speaking, he epitomizes an effortless cool ideal that men think women want. But, what we notice with Rui is that he's also exceedingly distant, passive, and noncommited to other people. If you didn't already think he was a deep soul, you would suspect he really has nothing to say, and he is genuinely not interested in you. In other words, although playing the distant, mysterious, indifferent person may seem like a sexually attractive image to a girl, it is in fact not true at all. Usually, men who "seem" to be this way, and yet are popular with women, are often doing something else you're not noticing. It could be eye contact. It could be that, when they're interested, they're extremely honest with their intentions toward a woman (and likewise, the woman misreads his impassive demeanour as intensity.) In a real world situation, the "Rui" school of interaction works if you have the poise and concentration to choose your spots carefully and powerfully to a woman.

Not that a guy should necessarily take either of the above approach. If you're good at making jokes, then 90% of the time, humor is by far the best way to get a female comfortable with you. You may be physically repulsive, but if you can make her hysterical, you'll almost always be a potential boyfriend to her. Plus it's a great way to get her to talk about herself, and for you to pick up what she likes, which words she uses, and how she feels. Again, it's about reading her personality and going from there.

Again, the above sounds simple, but it's actually complex. And there's, again, whole schools of thought (and moral barometers) on what and how is the best way to go about all this.

But, all flirting really is about you making physical contact with her. To get her comfortable with your touch, so to speak, and hopefully for her to reciprocate.

So, you can reframe the question from "what are good ways to flirt?" to "what are good ways to make her want to touch me back?"

[Valcun]

@Mythrel

Sorry Bro, After re-reading it over and over and over again. I finally get your point.

Its easier to have love takes its course and you'll feel more comfortable then always planning ahead and thinking of the next move. Sure I'll probably succeed in having so much women. But the original reason I started this game was for Love, now it just subsides as if it doesn't exist. I will probably began to lose what love really means. On the other hand, I never really been in a relationship where a girl loved me back. It was only one sided. See, your friend matt did something I didn't. I felt the same lightning bolt hit me when I saw the girl on the bus. I know she wasn't the hottest looking thing on the face of the planet. But she was cute at the same time average. But for some reason I didn't know why I liked this girl so much. But since I was ignorant around women, I didn't know what to say to her to get her attention and say "Hey! Look at me! I like you A LOT! Want to go on the date?" Instead I chickened out and I never saw her again. I waited my whole life to have this moment and I BLEW IT. I can't wait another 18 years to have this feeling of coincedence to happen again. I got to go out there and I find it. Just like if you were going through ebay on something you REALLY LOVE. You have to go and search for it. Just like the prince in sleeping beauty. When no one knew where Sleeping Beauty was (After she ate the apple) The Prince went out looking for her in the forest. I'm sorry if I gave out a bad impression, I reflect on this stuff everyday. But to have that feeling of love the same way matt did. I never really expeirenced it yet. I'll find The One, one day. But while I'm going out there playing this game with all the women, I'll HAVE to run into HER sometime.

[thumpr]

Wow... I didn't even know this thread existed!

I only just recently joined the forums due to my addiction to Densha Otoko

Anyway, I thought I'd just chime in and join the conversation... I just recently got into a relationship with a Japanese girl (I am not Japanese but I do speak it) and it all happened partly due to our love for Japanese drama and namely, Densha Otoko

I hope I can join in regularly and hopefully share some advice with anyone that might need a helping hand

[Valcun]

Details

[thumpr]

Details

Okay, well I posted a summary in the Densha Otoko thread, but I'll cut-and-paste it here:

"Well my girlfriend is Japanese and only recently made the move from Japan. She doesn't speak English very confidently and in an attempt to make the transition a little easier for her, I thought I'd break the ice by mixing a bit of column A with a bit of column B; Some nights I'd take her along to hang out with my English speaking friends and go see English movies, other nights I'd make her speak to me in Japanese and force me to respond in Japanese when we went out to dinner or had a quiet night in. Then I remembered I still had episodes of Good Luck!! and that she might feel a little more at home listening to Japanese/watching Japanese TV. She hadn't seen all the episodes so it made for a good enough excuse for us to stay in and snuggle up on the couch I should perhaps note that at this time, we were hanging out a lot but we still hadn't really addressed any feelings we might have had for each other heh. Call us shy, I guess

By the time the final episode of Good Luck!! was upon us, we got to talking about other Japanese drama and it almost became a staple part of our diet; we'd always spend time with each other and many nights would end with us going back to my place and watching a couple more episodes of whatever drama we were currently watching

Anyway, one afternoon she asked me whether I'd seen Densha Otoko; I had heard of it only in name and had never read the book and didn't even really know what it was all about. She'd wanted to see it when it was on TV in Japan but never got around to seeing it. Thus I downloaded the episodes and in an obscure sort of way, it acted as a bit of a catalyst when it came to our feelings for each other. I guess she empathized with Aoyama-san a little with regards to being somewhat shy and reluctant to enter into a relationship for fear of getting hurt and in some obscure way I related a bit with Yamada-san with regards to just biting the bullet and chivalrously going after the girl I liked. Don't get me wrong, my girlfriend and I don't go together like chalk and cheese like Aoyama-san and Yamada-san do, nor am I an otaku by any stretch of the imagination But just the image of an unlikely couple that actually works out seemed to feed both our imaginations. Both her and I were a bit hesitant due to the culture difference (she's only been partially exposed to Western culture and my exposure has been predominantly work-related) and language barrier (I'm not fluent in Japanese and she's not fluent in English), but watching Densha Otoko seemed to make us warm up to the possibility that hey, sometimes you just have to throw caution to the wind and go for it no matter how awkward it might seem. So our first steps in the relationship were a bit stilted (not unlike Yamada-san's stuttering heh) but with a little TLC and honesty we've been able to start something pretty damn special "

Hope that sheds a little light on my current situation In short, we were in a bit of a grey spot in our relationship, unsure how to approach each other, but watching Densha Otoko created a really romantic atmosphere and allowed us to let our defenses down and feel confident in telling each other how we felt. I honestly believe if she hadn't suggested Densha Otoko, we'd still be awkwardly trying to touch each other's hand or nervously asking each other on another date

[RoninAngel]

This is my first time posting here but I'm really interesting in the current topic

Some sincere and friendly advice from a very regretful, former "playa 4 life"

Valcun wrote:

Its easier to have love takes its course and you'll feel more comfortable then always planning ahead and thinking of the next move. Sure I'll probably succeed in having so much women. But the original reason I started this game was for Love, now it just subsides as if it doesn't exist. I will probably began to lose what love really means.

right there you've mad a huge step in the right direction. stop there and forget "on the other hand..." The other hand will just make you cold inside, and love will be a simulated set of steps and timing. Its not a ballroom dance. Love is a stumbling, stepping on toes, butterflies in your stomach, sweaty palms, does she like me as much as I like her? high school shuffle. Don't kill the magic that love is because you are to afraid of being hurt. You only jade your perspective further and lessen you chances of finding love.

Valcun wrote:

I'll find The One, one day. But while I'm going out there playing this game with all the women, I'll HAVE to run into HER sometime.

If you keep playing the game, the day you meet her she may be able to tell what you've become and won't want you. Even Worse, you'll be even less able to talk to her the way you should because you will be so used to playing the game you wont be real with her.. you wont know how to.

I hope this means something as you seem to be getting half the picture now, and its good that you consider your feelings regularly, atleast that way you know some of them are still there.

Best of luck,

RoninAngel

[slippyepic]

Hmm, just visiting this thread before I head home from work. Anyway, here's my general observation . . .

It takes a long time for both men and women to differentiate between passionate love and compassionate love. Love is, actually, a process that involves

1) Compassion/humility.
2) Empathy. Really putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
3) Communication. Expressing how you feel and listening as best you can. And this involves giving and accepting a lot of criticism.
4) Honesty and trust. No trust, no relationship.
5) Compromise/sacrifice. Learning to share your life means making decisions you don't want to make.
6) Protection. Protecting the other partner when things get hard. But, compromise is more important.
7) Discipline. This is especially important when you two have to live with each other.
Responsibility. To follow through and also to make sure the other person follows through

Love isn't glamorous, and it has zilcho to do with passion or romance. You can have passion and romance, but it should never preclude the above 8 things. And usually when you're young and full of ego and adventure and poetry, you'll find that passion and romance is what you really wanted all along, not love.

So, about being a player . . . I say, REVEL in it. As Oscar Wilde would say, the only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. And, honestly, most guys can't settle down unless they scratch the itch a little.

Just understand that, at the end of the day, what you pursue is the pleasuring of your own ego. As long as you think about finding "the one", you're not looking for love. Women do not complete you. Women cannot save you. Women will not be one with you. Women are not objects. As long as you equate relationships with just "falling in love", you'll always be too selfish to really love somebody.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I would even say, especially for a man, having a healthy, boundless ego is the only thing that matters in a young man's life. It enables him to do great things (or have great memories.) And, yes, a true player is one who actually learns how women think and gets over the deceptive, self-loathing narcissism of the "nice guy."

Once that is over -- and really, we could be talking easily 5-20 years of your healthy, male adult life -- then seek love. And if you really do end up falling in love with somebody, then park away the ego at the curb and see the person for who they are, and yourself for what you've become.

Love is all hard work. But it can be frighteningly resilient. Or as what Emily Bronte would say, "My love . . . resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary."

[Xi@h]

OMG!! This thread keeps growing and growing. I can hardly keep the pace up lol. Just some hours later, there's 1 more page to read Keep it up guys.. Keep posting!!

As for me, hmm.. yesterday, I did go back to training though injured.. well... now I'm seriously injured The D.D is back

[thumpr]

Okay, like I mentioned in the Densha Otoko thread, I'm thinking of getting my Densha Otoko-loving girlfriend something from Hermes as a Christmas present... but I'm not sure whether that'd be too cheesy

I was even thinking of getting the same Hermes matching necklaces that Hermes gives Densha at the end... but then I started thinking too much and thought that maybe giving a present like that might make her think I lacked imagination or something

This is the Hermes necklace in the episode:



This is the Hermes necklace I had in mind:



The design is the same but I chose a different color; I think my gf would prefer black over brown though.

Anyone want to add their two cents?

[Valcun]

Hmm, just visiting this thread before I head home from work. Anyway, here's my general observation . . .

It takes a long time for both men and women to differentiate between passionate love and compassionate love. Love is, actually, a process that involves

1) Compassion/humility.
2) Empathy. Really putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
3) Communication. Expressing how you feel and listening as best you can. And this involves giving and accepting a lot of criticism.
4) Honesty and trust. No trust, no relationship.
5) Compromise/sacrifice. Learning to share your life means making decisions you don't want to make.
6) Protection. Protecting the other partner when things get hard. But, compromise is more important.
7) Discipline. This is especially important when you two have to live with each other.
Responsibility. To follow through and also to make sure the other person follows through

Love isn't glamorous, and it has zilcho to do with passion or romance. You can have passion and romance, but it should never preclude the above 8 things. And usually when you're young and full of ego and adventure and poetry, you'll find that passion and romance is what you really wanted all along, not love.

So, about being a player . . . I say, REVEL in it. As Oscar Wilde would say, the only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. And, honestly, most guys can't settle down unless they scratch the itch a little.

Just understand that, at the end of the day, what you pursue is the pleasuring of your own ego. As long as you think about finding "the one", you're not looking for love. Women do not complete you. Women cannot save you. Women will not be one with you. Women are not objects. As long as you equate relationships with just "falling in love", you'll always be too selfish to really love somebody.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I would even say, especially for a man, having a healthy, boundless ego is the only thing that matters in a young man's life. It enables him to do great things (or have great memories.) And, yes, a true player is one who actually learns how women think and gets over the deceptive, self-loathing narcissism of the "nice guy."

Once that is over -- and really, we could be talking easily 5-20 years of your healthy, male adult life -- then seek love. And if you really do end up falling in love with somebody, then park away the ego at the curb and see the person for who they are, and yourself for what you've become.

Love is all hard work. But it can be frighteningly resilient. Or as what Emily Bronte would say, "My love . . . resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary."

Slippyepic, I just want to thank you. What you just wrote their has finally made my mind clear. I now know why I got into the game and why I want to have a relationship. I really appreciate your reply. I'm actually going to print what you said.

@Roninangel
Thanks, I'm really glad you replied. Its been tough for me because I've been blind about this. It's okay to use the game, but at the same time it isn't me. I want to be me and answer on how I feel and not tactical. But its a shame letting such a good art form like that go to waste.

@Mythrel Thanks

@thumpr
I don't think it would matter what you get her man. Women are run by feelings and emotions. Its the thought and the feeling you have behind the gift that matters to a women and what it represents. Not the actual gift it self.

[Valcun]

@slippyepic

Hey do you have aim? Can you PM me your SN?

I'm facinated with your perspective on this. I had a totally different outlook on these things that I always had to have a plan and routines. Which work! But take many sets to calibrate and perfect. I don't want to say any further and would like to resume the rest of my message possibly in private to you. If you decide that you want to stay anonymous, thats fine with me. But I would just like to hear more of your opinions and outlooks on the matter.

PS: I don't like how NLP works, I always tried to stay away from that.

Re: On your Eye Contact structure.

Your eye contact structure is only the basis and starting point of an opener. Once your in, you say Hi? Yeah so what. Your in now what? Basically I'm going to pick off from where slippy stopped. So now your in and you have maintained Eye Contact and she acknowledges you, maybe?

Well there are some topics you can whip out there, BUT! you have to have it relate to her in some way and some how be interesting. I wouldn't want anyone just coming up to me and start talking about how cool computer "coding" is. Its jargon, I don't understand that non sense. So! I'll just list some things that I might USE!.

- Your Enviornment, look around your enviornment and see what you can use in your conversation, For example the weather. Then you could probably lead on to more things related to that.

- Use her as the topic! (Usually many people ask for "pick up lines" or things that are said about the other are considered "pick up lines" But hey, I guess you can sort of classify it as that.

- Talk about an event that happen to you recently.

- Talk about how you feel.

-Whip up Topics on what she answers, like "whats the craziest thing you did?" and continue forward with that.

-Valcun

[mokona424]

i'm melting T_T haha anyone hir to talk 2?

[Xi@h]

I'm having a headache.. It's like living in hell at the moment.. + the injuries.. damn it. I'm doomed

Someone shoot me!!

[mokona424]

naze? doshtano? jeremiah-san?

[Xi@h]

Despite I got a sustain ligaments on both feet, I get back to training yesterday (because I could run without any problem) after two weeks and at the end, I'm seriously injured (ACL injury) Moreover I'm having a terrible headache. I feel like crying

[RoninAngel]

@Valcun
Im glad something I said makes sense to you. Being yourself isnt letting any art form go to waste. People who need that art form are those who simply cannot deal with their actual emotions. They hide behind clever tactics and cliche lines to avoid having to open themselves up to someone else. They get their power by manipulating women and innevitably making it harder for her and anyone who ever does care for her to experience her true self. They deny their own passion and intensity and thrive on deceit. Im not saying you should search for anyone.... it will just happen. Just make sure when they come into your life. Its "you" they meet, not some chump with a 10 step checklist of how to get into her pants. Oh and bonus when she loves you for you the sex is waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy better.

Be the man you can be and never deny anyone including yourself that potential.


@slippyepicOffline

sure Oscar Wilde could write but he was also a womanizing sexist egomaniac. Lots of love and passion in his life... *cough* @$$h073 *cough*

Peace all

[Mythrel]

Hehe Hey Valcun I didn't think anything I said was going to mean anything I was kinda in shock when you posted the reply . I am glad you seen what I was trying to convey to you. I just didn't want to see you walk down that path where you lost meaning. Keep searching for a way to fill that void. Once you find her you will know where to go from there. I know you at this stage know how to treat a lady right, but if it continued you would lose that touch and never love them back. They would becomes pawns that you can manipulate however you pleased. Sure at first its fun but it doesn't stay that way forever. Good luck I hope things go well.

Jeremiah: damn that sucks man you are on your feet a lot on the job? Are your employeers being understanding of the situation? I hope you feel better.


hey RoninAngel welcome to our little corner store nice thoughtful words.

[Souriance]

hi there!! I'm a close friend of gibonite, and i know she post there... She couldn't be there anymore, but don't be afraid, she travelled to china .

Well, i read your posts, it's very touching to see so many good people helping each other. It's even some kind of relief for me.

Gambatte mina!!!

[Xi@h]

Mythrel, got the scan today, I though it was a important ACL injury but hehe.. it was only a minor tear. Yet it aches like hell. Valcun likes women, that's all to him

Souriance, good to know that she's travelling

[Mythrel]

Ouch it sucks either way, thats good its not as serious as thought.

Hi friend of gibonite that is good she is travelling It might help her get away from it all and have some peaceful thoughts. So lucky I wish I got to go to China I am almost certain id be deported from any asian country. If I landed in japan i'd be screaming Kawaii like left right and center

[Souriance]

Ouch it sucks either way, thats good its not as serious as thought.

Hi friend of gibonite that is good she is travelling It might help her get away from it all and have some peaceful thoughts. So lucky I wish I got to go to China I am almost certain id be deported from any asian country. If I landed in japan i'd be screaming Kawaii like left right and center

!! yep, her guy is an awful crap... sorry but that's what I think. Well, she's gone to work there, for 6 months... I miss her...

Well... To tell the truth i'm maybe in love with her

[techie]

More on Eye Contact
It doesn't mean you should stare, though. And it can be an intense experience if you're not used to it. Generally, the protocol goes something like this . . .

1) When you first see her, stare into one of her eyes.

2) Don't smile. Don't even blink.

Ok.. now dont try this if A) you have not shaved for two weeks, and B) you haven't slept for two days but been working in a stuffy basement, and C) it's 3 AM and youre sitting on the bus.

It could have fatal results for your self as I nearly found out last night

[Doctorpink]

yes it works... but im not excellent yet... but i understand women better now....

i have all his video and audio etc...
it helps a lot! with white girls(only the beautifull one, doesnt work well with average intelligent girl)
doesnt work well with asian but with a little adaptation it works

anyway.. u need to adapt it to each girl...!

I RECOMMEND

david deangelo....
www.DoubleYourDating.com

his tips are for BEAUTIFULL AND EXPERIENCED white GIRLS..!!!

so if u want to use it.. adapt it... dont do it by the book!

UNDERSTAND his way.. then use it in YOUR OWN WAY!

fast tips to get girls.. talk to them like they were boys but just be a bit more gentle and talk about what they wanna talk about....
anyway.. good luck!

I remember this website, but I didn't think much of it at the time someone gave me a link. I may just check it out and see if it helps. Have you tried the site and has it worked for you?

[Xi@h]

Mythrel, yup both sucks either way.. man I wish I was made of metal lol Why would you be deported from any asian country? A nice gentleman won't be deported unless you do something really bad like hmmm peeping at beautiful asians in WC?

Ahh Souriance? In love with gibonite?? Pourquoi attendre qu'elle soit parti travailler en Chine pour maintenant dire que tu l'aimes? [Translation for others - Dude.. why did you have to wait that you love her when she go working in China?]

[pe3kabo0]

be yourself.. if you try to hard then girls just think you want sex

[Souriance]

Hum... How could I tell her this while she's still loving him?...

[slippyepic]

@Valcun,

I should re-iterate that I'm not a player at all, or anything like that. I'm in my late 20s, and so obviously I'm speaking a lot from experience with friendships and relationships. The "eye contact" and "listening" stuff is more or less "common sense", but it may not be something that most guys understand until they've gone through college.

But, yeah, you can PM me if you'd like. I don't have AIM or SN.

I don't like how NLP works, I always tried to stay away from that.

FWIW, although I disapprove of one particular guy's application of NLP, he does teach the practical side of it very well. He could probably emphasize the ecological (read: ethical) part better, since that is considered a very important part of the tool set.
I don't practice NLP (it's not easy to master), but it in itself sets up a model to explain why certain things in flirting works, and what doesn't. So, from here on, I'll use NLP terminology to explain the rest of the post . . .

Your eye contact structure is only the basis and starting point of an opener. Once your in, you say Hi? Yeah so what. Your in now what? Basically I'm going to pick off from where slippy stopped. So now your in and you have maintained Eye Contact and she acknowledges you, maybe?

The eye contact thing is really, really important for the following reasons

1) Creating a state of trust and intimacy begins with establishing eye contact

2) By focusing on just one eye, you allow your vision to converge on a point. This enables peripheral vision to pick up body language (i.e. movements), rather than having your on-point gaze do this job. What usually happens with somebody who's not confident, is that they try to see the whole face, the whole person, and so on. And because the situation is very important to the person, they instinctively try to read a zillion bits of information (i.e. the woman's body language) at the same time, which in turn causes the person enormous difficulty to concentrate. This is very distracting for your brain, which needs to concentrate in order to be "in the moment" (i.e. have a conversation) in a high pressure situation. For that reason, most shy people turn their eyes toward an inanimte, static object. However, when you do this, you break rapport with the other person and lose the chance of leading or pacing. Therefore, the proper solution is to focus on the other person's eyes. The more attractive/distracting the person is to you, basically the narrower you must make your convergent point; usually, focusing on just one of the eyes will be sufficient.

Really, it's not all that different from driving. When you first learn, you try to bring every detail or bit of information into your central gaze. But, this is extremely distracting because you only process roughly 7 bits of data at any given time. As you become proficient, you learn to focus on only one detail at a time, and let your peripheral vision pick up changes in the environment.

So, in other words, confidence and concentration really begins with the eye contact.

Finally -- and this is where the NLP begins -- as long as she mantains pure eye contact with you, she doesn't quite hear what you're saying. Not only does this puts a lot less pressure on you to actually have something witty to say, it makes her much more receptive to what you're saying behind your words.

Your Enviornment, look around your enviornment and see what you can use in your conversation, For example the weather. Then you could probably lead on to more things related to that.

Yup. Basically, you use the environment to do two things. Set up a very rudimentary rapport with the other person. But, the second is to frame the conversation. And usually, when you introduce yourself, you use the observations of situation to frame "you" and "me" into the conversation. For example, at a party, you initially observe her social dynamic, and then when you introduce yourself, you could frame the intial conversation around that social dynamic including yourself in it. If your observation was spot-on, then immediately she thinks she has a friend with you. If not, then you start listening and reframe until she finds one she likes.

Use her as the topic! (Usually many people ask for "pick up lines" or things that are said about the other are considered "pick up lines" But hey, I guess you can sort of classify it as that.

It's the most important thing for various reasons. This itself is a very complex subject, because all of the components of intimacy -- trance states, anchoring, embedded messages, direction, pacing, leading, time distortion -- begins with accessing a person's "internal"/introverted senses, particularly their memory, and synchronizing it with the "ideal" for her. It's not merely satiating somebody's ego; what the feeling of intimacy really is, when a person'e ego believes they can have a complete free-flow with the other person, because they essentially sees a mirror of itself. And the only way to make this illusion is to not engage a person's rational skills (which is what most advice on "use her as the topic"), but creating such a powerful state of emotional and physical synchronicity that she comes to that conclusion herself.

In a state of perfect, intimate synchronization, usually two things happen. A person is almost into a dreamlike state, which is to say their head is running through mostly internal memory-heavy data, and their conscious attention (or gaze) is completely toward themselves. But, the same time, they sense through their periphery that their subconscious is constantly fed input from the outside, which enables the person to exist within themselves comfortably, creating a perception that their internal and external worlds are one and the same. It's not unlike near the endpoint of sexual ecstasy, but it's also not unlike the nascent, natal state when one person feels so incredibly close, just so utterly happy and connected, with somebody. When basically their ego is completely synchronous with their environment, which is very, very rare indeed.

The #1 thing that men completely, completely misunderstand about woman is that they believe, that by "showing", "proving", or "telling" a woman that they are great/worthy, that a woman is going to fall in love with them. This mistaken belief presumes that human being use their rational faculties to feel. That women will suddenly feel passion or intense emotion over the man because the guy demonstrated evidence on some woman romance empirical scale to calculate his dateability with a woman.

Listening is very important. Asking questions without making it an interrogation is important. Most advice on listening to women usually involves accessing the surface structure of the conversation. And what this means is that most men pick up on a lot of details and facts, but they don't know how to really get into the subtext (i.e. the emotional, sense-oriented) or deep structure of what they say. One way to really into another person's deep structure is to ask a lot of the same kind of questions. You can keep changing the superficial topic or superficial details of your questions, but keep each question onto the same core value/emotion until you feel satisfied with your understanding of it.

The enemy of rapport is cognitive dissonance. Essentially, having confidence (and looking presentable) is important, because you want to avoid cognitive dissonance It's a distancing effect that forces the other person to keep their attention on you and separate from themeselves. Where rapport is about creating a perception of sameness (connection), cognitive dissonance creates difference (disconnect.)

Talk about an event that happen to you recently.

Yup, and this one usually has two different levels --
1) If it's near the beginning of the conversation, usually you try to use a humorous event in order to "break the ice" and hopefully get her talking. Most people use events to sort of test out the other person and to connect one tangent to another. It's more or less there to massage the conversation.
2) However, once you've figured out the other person's language patterns, VAK, key/trance words, value system, time line, and associations, you basically plug in this data back into each event you describe. Usually you start telling stories, using her own words, in order to build rapport with her. Charlie Rose, who does a late-night interview show on PBS, does this very, very well with his guests.
In essence, even though the event is from you, it is really about her. And this is how you show her that you are of the qualities she desire.
3) Also, at the same time, assuming you've mantaining eye contact, you synchronize your voice with hers (mirroring) and start appropriating her body language. In fact, if things are going well with her, you probably are doing this already without thinking.

Whip up Topics on what she answers, like "whats the craziest thing you did?" and continue forward with that.

Key thing is to keep the questions in a comfortable thread of conversation, and to look for emotional, metaphorical language. Usually when they describe what they did, you want to ask them either what they felt or what they saw. When you do the latter, they automatically have to access their visual memories, which puts them into introspective mode, and causes their eyes to glaze over. This makes them more receptive to you because their defense mechanisms fall down. (And Charlie Rose is just great at this; I just admire this guy's ability to make guests feel like good friends who can truthfully and passionately speak their minds.

Any of you who watch late-night TV,and want a good example of somebody who mantains excellent eye contact, creates rapport, mixes up jokes and tells stories that mirrors the other person's thinking, and uses a lot of physical contact (including turning his head at an angle, which sends out a signal of genuine interest in the other person) to synch up, watch Craig Ferguson. Whenever he has an attractive female guest, however feisty, intelligent, or self-aware, most of them eventually melt, because he knows how to create rapport on many levels without looking like he's hitting on them. Even if he's trading barbs with a female guest, and the female guest wins a battle, you'll notice his eyes never leave theirs. No other late-night guy disarms better than he does.

[chumpie434]

I think its great idea because 1) you put alot of thought into the present and 2) its a symbol of something you both share. I don't think she'll think its cheesy or that you took the easy way out (which I believe is flowers) especially since its something thats very important to both of you. To go and find the necklace took work itself, though I never realized Hermes actually sold it. Good luck!

Now if you are really lucky, she'll get you the same thing and you'll have a matching pair... Ahhh here's to dreaming...

Okay, like I mentioned in the Densha Otoko thread, I'm thinking of getting my Densha Otoko-loving girlfriend something from Hermes as a Christmas present... but I'm not sure whether that'd be too cheesy

I was even thinking of getting the same Hermes matching necklaces that Hermes gives Densha at the end... but then I started thinking too much and thought that maybe giving a present like that might make her think I lacked imagination or something

This is the Hermes necklace in the episode:



This is the Hermes necklace I had in mind:



The design is the same but I chose a different color; I think my gf would prefer black over brown though.

Anyone want to add their two cents?

[Doctorpink]

wtf

how u know all that?

[slippyepic]

Well, about 80% just comes from NLP. I don't claim special knowledge at all; most with basic exposure to NLP will understand what I'm talking about. Some of the things Valcun talks (i.e. pivots, talking about women's emotions) made me think that he's at least been around that particular subculture to be aware of the terminology. Then again, I may be completely wrong.

But back to the question of what love really is? My own views are kinda influenced by Erich Fromm and especially M Scott Peck's book "Road Less Travelled." Both talk, at length, about the difference between compassionate and passionate love. The key argument they make is that compassionate love, the basis for a healthy, truly life-giving relationship, is something you do and constantly with your partner. Whereas passionate love can be percieved as either a state associated with raised endorphin levels (which in all relationships will fade within a 3-5 month window), or one's ego projecting fantasies onto the other person. I think Fromm also uses some Marxist arguments to argue Western romanticism is part of our society's need to commodify and sell human experience. Thus, people buy relationships with each other in order to feel "high"; when the "high" is gone, they sell back their relationship for another. But you don't really know to read into that too deeply.

My own opinion is that people don't necessarily need to have a loving or compassionate-love relationship with another person to enjoy or have a healthy life. And, often, passionate relationships will eventually change into compassionate. They essentially have to, within that 6-month window, or it'll automatically dissipate.

The real source of misery is when you confuse the two forms in the same relationship. When you want passion when you're just having friendship, when you want understanding when you're getting "drama." In our society, we often vaunt love above all things, but what we're really selling is the luster of the passionate relationship, while implying compassionate relationships are what really matters. And, so, through your 20s, or through a unsuccessful marraige, you learn to differentiate the two and understand that passion, biologically, cannot last, and that compassion is something you must do everyday. When you're actually compatible with somebody, the former lasts longer; the latter is much easier.

[Paniolagirl]

Ten inch penis always works for me.

[Romance]

be yourself, be funny, dance, be charming

[crazylife123]

Ten inch penis always works for me.

wow...just like that?

[tlina069]

Just be yourself just like Romance says.
There are a lot of fish in the ocean, if this salmon does not take your bait, then move on to a different fish. Tuna or whale, as long as not shark, cuz they bite. Hehehehe...
Besides why would you want to be with someone who does not want to accept you as you are?
Don't ever lose yourself in a relationship. Have more confidence and at the same time, know when to shut up. Good luck!

[diOdio]

Ten inch penis always works for me.

wow...just like that?

haha. i dont think swinging your wang around works. the way to go about it is starting a rumor about yourself. pst, i got ten inches, pass it on.
but wouldnt you rather have a girl love you for your mind and not your package?

just be yourself and dont try too hard, slightly open with your emotions to prevent the "brother/sister" relationship.

[pwner4once]

OMG!! This thread keeps growing and growing. I can hardly keep the pace up lol. Just some hours later, there's 1 more page to read Keep it up guys.. Keep posting!!

As for me, hmm.. yesterday, I did go back to training though injured.. well... now I'm seriously injured The D.D is back

that's sooo true!!!
lol especially for me who have school on the weekdays. Man i got to say, u ppl are great at commenting back ^^. although it also made me feel slow at the same time. oh well i will have time to post once after exam which is next week !!! ^^
well said, about the necklace. I didn't know there is a hooking looking end to it. I've always thought it's designed like those keychains. Instead of a very sharp thing around ur neck, i would get her something more comfortable. such as a watch or something that's small in size? I don't know. I've never been to one of those stores where they have all those neat things. But how about a hairclip? that might sound too lame since the idea seems old. maybe makeup or lotion? that's what my friend got for his gf last year and she was happy about it.

Jeremiah~
that sucks man. i hope u are going to get well soon.

[thumpr]

I think its great idea because 1) you put alot of thought into the present and 2) its a symbol of something you both share. I don't think she'll think its cheesy or that you took the easy way out (which I believe is flowers) especially since its something thats very important to both of you. To go and find the necklace took work itself, though I never realized Hermes actually sold it. Good luck!

Now if you are really lucky, she'll get you the same thing and you'll have a matching pair... Ahhh here's to dreaming...

Well actually, I thought about getting a matched pair... like Hermes-san does in the show

[xarien]

Being yourself isn't overrated, it's just not as simple as it seems.

1) Understanding yourself. Make a list of all your positive traits and a list of all your negative traits. The positive ones are what you want to convey and the negative ones are what you want to hide.

2) Directing conversations. Know your interests and topics that you have a decent knowledge of. When the conversation starts, try to digress onto one of those topics. This will allow the conversation to flow much easier.

3) Be confident. This corresponds to the above two points. Make sure you are always confident in yourself. This is pretty easy if you follow the advice above.

4) Keep her coming back. The secret in "getting" the girl is to make sure her time spent with you is better than her time without you. Whether this is because she has an innate attraction towards you, the fact that you can keep her entertained hours with your witty humor, or simply you can keep her enthralled in a conversation. If she realizes that being with you is fun, she'll come back, time and again.

5) Seal the deal. A first kiss is one of the most important things in the relationship and will be a benchmark. My suggestion is a simple open mouth, no tongue kiss. Firm, but not too passionate.

[animetama]

Being yourself isn't overrated, it's just not as simple as it seems.

1) Understanding yourself. Make a list of all your positive traits and a list of all your negative traits. The positive ones are what you want to convey and the negative ones are what you want to hide.

Good advice!
I dont know about hiding the negatives tho.
I, for one am usually attracted by the negatives:
-reticence nature
-moody and/or bad tempered personality
-anal retentive mindset.. wait, that’s *attention to details* but you get the point!

btw: Hi xarien! *hugs*

oh ps:
about the wang, it's not the size.. always the techniques darling!

[xarien]

Being yourself isn't overrated, it's just not as simple as it seems.

1) Understanding yourself. Make a list of all your positive traits and a list of all your negative traits. The positive ones are what you want to convey and the negative ones are what you want to hide.

Good advice!
I dont know about hiding the negatives tho.
I, for one am usually attracted by the negatives:
-reticence nature
-moody and/or bad tempered personality
-anal retentive mindset.. wait, that’s *attention to details* but you get the point!

btw: Hi xarien! *hugs*

oh ps:
about the wang, it's not the size.. always the techniques darling!

I disagree. Negatives are only endearing after you've had time to know the person. If you're just meeting them for the first time, you'll want to hide your bad traits (at least for a little while).

Sheesh, just a hug Tama? I was expecting at least a grope.

[animetama]

I disagree. Negatives are only endearing after you've had time to know the person. If you're just meeting them for the first time, you'll want to hide your bad traits (at least for a little while).

For most things like being a lazy slob etc.. but personality-wise (which might be a little hard to hide and/or change), why bother?
I was initially peeved but very, very, very curious because he was reticence and moody (yes, go figure!)
And this is what you want right? To leave an impression, whether good or bad because ultimately, you want that person thinking about you.

Sheesh, just a hug Tama? I was expecting at least a grope.

/me gropes xarien in the hug!

[Doctorpink]

what the hell is nlp? whos that..

and where can i get that thing too?!?!
thank u!

[slippyepic]

It's a circular argument, really.

Say you're an otaku whose interests consist solely of video games, hentai, and twinkies. Good luck, mate.

Then again, say you are all those things, but are also funny as hell, can do a spot-on impression of Borat, and can make your priest pee in his pants. Well, it's good to be you, and you can probably declare to the female world you love (LOVE) cartoon p0rn. In fact, you probably aren't even reading this message right now.

Really, the most important thing is whether she enjoys being with you. As long as you're within reasonable levels of attractiveness (i.e. washed, shaven, etc.), you can do fine.

what the hell is nlp? whos that..

NLP is neuro-linguistic programming, a school of alternative psychology. It's a convenient model that analyzes how people communicate and interact with each other, and it gets you away from looking at people from "personality" or "image."

In a feminist-ish sort of way, it's more of a postmodern approach to traditional psychology. Guys are often asked to be "themselves", but rarely do you hear women tell themselves that. Women revel in the pretend; that is, they understand that their identity is a multiplicity of roles: mother/caretaker, worker, wife, good girl, bad girl, intellectual girl, slut girl, etc. In that regard, a woman's identity is more linked to subtext and verbal/non-verbal communication. Men often feel like they need to qualify their masculinity; that they're either a man or not at all. And, especially at a younger age, they seek women out to become "more man." Women do not undergo that binary rite of passage. They are in flux, but the basic patterns of feeling and thinking will more or less stay the same. That is also true of men. NLP offers a model to break down what those patterns are.

In that regard, you can't be anything but yourself. But you can try improving how you communicate and interact with other women, other peers, other people. That's really about it.

One guy decided to market NLP as a means of picking up women. This is the equivalent of carpet bombing your house to solve your termite problem. You'll get the job done, but it's overkill and you're going to feel kinda bad about it afterwards. I just think it's better to learn basic stuff like,

A) Being confident enough to mantain eye contact with a girl
B) Really listening to a girl
C) Make them feel good to be with you

Note that not one bit of advice suggests you should be anything but who you are. Because that's irrelevant anyway. She's only going to know what she shares with you.