Will Japanese music ever survive in America?

[TheWonton]

With Utada coming here and failing.. and the "Teriyaki Boyz" coming and prolly failing all over the place.. despite the backing of mflos Verbal and a few Rip Slyme members.. do you guys think Japanese pop has any chance of sustaining life here? Going the way its currently going?

I decided against a poll because polls are kinda stupid. I wanna hear opinions!

I've found an article about it was well:
http://www.nozomionline.com/entertainme ... ready.html

Although it may not happen anytime soon, I think people of Asian descent have a fair shot at making it in the American music industry. It will take the right person at the right time, with the right sound, and the right label to do what only one artist Kyu Sakamoto could do in 1963 with his hit Sukiyaki, crush all competition and make it to the top of the Billboard charts.

[yt_toshi]

I've seen many discussions about this topic on different sites and most of the people believe that it would be difficult for any Japanese artist to make it in Anerica.

I kind of feel that Jpop will more likely have an underground cult following like PuffyAyumiAmi (sp?) than mainstream musical appeal to an American audience. Maybe, there's some sort of barrier that must be overcome such as language (except some of the artists that you've mentioned), appearance, lyrics and probably many more barriers.

I would be happy if Jpop made it to the American mainstream, but that's a long shot.

[20centuryboy]

very interresting article.

[groink]

I'm sorry to say that POP music in America suffers the same problem as television entertainment in America. Like my comments in a different topic, Americans practice cultural identification. It means that, race and/or culture related, if an artist does not fit the consumer's image of a person he would feel comfortable following, he will not invest his time in that artist. That's why I've always believed that if an artist trying to crack into American entertainment isn't either white, hispanic or black, he's not going to make it. There are huge exceptions to this idea, but the song or CD has to be DAMN good!

Showing my age here... Pink Lady made it big in America during the 1970's. Looking back at it, I think their timing was excellent. At the time, disco was huge, and catchy music with a disco beat were huge hits. And, Pink Lady had it all. But even with their talent and everything else, I think their introduction before music television (MTV) helped. If they were introduced in the 1980's with MTV already in the mainstream, Pink Lady would've had to use MTV. And the results may be totally different.

I'd reverse the article mentioned above... Instead of worrying about whether or not an Asian artist will ever make it in America, let's worry about if the American consumer will ever enjoy entertainment without bringing culture or race into it. I'm serious! Americans consider these sorts of things... Cultural identification in this sense isn't actually a bad thing when used in this context because they have a full right to do so. But, if Asian artists are trying to make it in America with these things are going on, they'll be at a major disadvantage before they even record the first track.

--- groink

[tonydesu]

With Utada coming here and failing.. ]

Maybe because her English Album was horrible... I'm Japaneasy anyone?

[Tao Libra]

It's not the appearance of the singers or musicians that matter. It's not even the music. It's quite simply the language barrier. Most Americans are not the least bit interested in listening to songs that aren't in English, no matter how good the music may be.

I used to work in an office that had a stereo on which we were all allowed to take turns, playing whatever we wanted; and because I happen to like J-Pop a lot, I got the (highly misguided) notion that it would be cool to broaden my fellow employees' horizons by exposing them to what Japan has to offer. Precisely TWO of those people actually learned to like the stuff I'd bring in (and one of those two had a Filipina wife, so he was a little more inclined to be open-minded than usual).

ALL of the remaining people (about 18 of them) would whine and moan and complain whenever I put Japanese music on that stereo. A few of them would occasionally concede that they liked the music, but insisted that it was somehow "annoying" to not be able to understand the lyrics. Some of the others would even get quite hostile about it, and literally throw fits over it. I'm not joking, or even exaggerating: Grown adults throwing childish fits over having to hear Japanese lyrics. (And we're not talking about weird stuff here, either. We're talking about Utada Hikaru, Ayumi Hamasaki, Hitomi Yaida, and so on. Relatively mainstream stuff, musically speaking.)

As I said: Most Americans are whining mono-linguistic wussies, who simply won't listen to anything that isn't in English.

The marginal success that Puffy Amiyumi has seen in the U.S. is just that – marginal – and they wouldn't even have that much if they were singing in Japanese.

As for Utada Hikaru's "Exodus," which was in English, I think its lack of success had far more to do with severely inadequate promotion, and – I hate to say it, but it's true – inadequate quality. Don't get me wrong: I love Hikki, and I've got every CD she's ever made — but "Exodus" is simply not up to her usual standard. The overall musical style is quite different (and not particularly appealing); and those English lyrics she came up with are, quite frankly, really bad at times. ("You're easy breezy and I'm Japanesey?" Gimme a break.)

[meiohsetsuna]

Gone are the days of bubblegum pop and teenybopper lyrics from artists with no musical talent and even less of a voice.

Hahahaha.. oh that made me laugh.. if they think THOSE days are over.. hahaha!

The over synthesized sounds and the meaningless lyrics of the album did nothing to help it on the charts.
... Her biggest lyrical flop is the lead single of the album, “Easy Breezy,” which further adds to the racial stigmata Americans have placed on Asians. To sum it up, the song basically says you “kissed and told” in so many words.

Yep. I agree. Utada Hikaru f****d up royally in her attempt to breach the American audience. I didn't think anyone could go far with a line like, "You're easy breezy and I'm Japan-eezy"

Well all in all its an interesting article. I for one don't think that Asian artists will take off in mainstream America. No, it will have to be for the Otaku community, for a fan such as myself. I was actually suprised to hear about the PuffyAmiYumi show, considering what a hit they were back when I was in highschool half a decade ago. I was not suprised to hear that Utada flopped big time with her terrible album. Americans are very biased and proud of their culture too, and awfully ignorant to boot. Gosh darnit, I live in the 50th state aka the island chain of Hawaii and whenever I visit the mainland US I get bombarded with stupid questions like, "How do you like visiting America?" Better yet, "Could you sing a song in your native tongue?" If the US can't even realize that Hawaii is its 50th state, and has been for over 50yrs, then how the heck can we expect the US to be culturally sensitive to others? How can we expect to have a genre of singers that don't speak our language become the top of the charts?

I'd love to see it happen. But it won't. I'd buy Jpop/Rock/etc from Itunes if it were available for Americans to download. I'd buy more albums if the import cost wasn't outrageous. I'd watch more American licensed anime if scenes weren't cut out and they weren't so terribly dubbed. The US isn't going to accept anything from Asia that forces us to recognize Asia. The US doesn't want stuff that makes us feel like the white man is no longer on top. The US pop culture is force-fed to us. We are told what we like and don't like. I've studied media for too long, it truly disgusts me. Blah.

[2triky]

I would be happy if Jpop made it to the American mainstream, but that's a long shot.

it's beyond a long shot...it's a not gonna happen. i don't think it will ever have more than a niche in the american market...the music industry is much too strong here and it's vested interests are backed by millions upon millions of marketing and production dollars.

[tonydesu]

Groink makes a lot of good points about cultural identification. There's such a huge cultural difference between USA and Japan.

If we're focusing on pop music here I don't think many JPop artists would fly stateside. Pop music is geared toward popular culture and the thing about Jpop is that its geared towards the Japanese pop culture. For example, in pop music image matters and Americans want sexy stars, japanese want cute stars. As for fan base, how about Ayumi Hamasaki. I actually don't like her music (sorry fans), but I think her strong high school girl fan base sells her records. I couldn't imagine high school girls stateside relating to her past.

However, I do think good music will sell, regardless of language barrier. Look at "sukiyaki" (上を向いて歩こう). I was downtown and saw an old guy on the corner with a guitar playing music. A few Japanese tourists watch him, and leave some money in his case. So the guy busts out the "sukiyaki" song and wows the tourists. Even guys on the street know this song! The thing about this song is that it has a universal theme: heartbreak, and an air around it that you can feel without knowing Japanese.

I think Utada's had the best chance to make it here, but her album was horrible. Horrible lyrics and no heart. I think M-flo could make it too, but they don't have Lisa anymore. I was listening to both these artists way before I even started learning Japanese

[2triky]

As for fan base, how about Ayumi Hamasaki. I actually don't like her music (sorry fans), I couldn't imagine high school girls stateside relating to her past.

or her freakish alien looks....

[Gir]

on June 15, 1963, the song ousted Leslie Gore's "It's My Party" to become the No. 1 popular song in the U.S.

As tonydesu mentioned, It happened once maybe it could again.

[gryzze]

I don't live in the U.S. but I think the same goes for where I live...

Why do you want JPop/JRock to be mainstream? The fact that it's not mainstream where I live is one of the reasons that I like so much.

This way I can look for new music on my own without having to see/hear it wherever I go. The same goes for dorama/anime etc...

I'm fed up with everything on local radio and tv

I would be even worse if the artists should try to adjust to the foreign markets... yuk!

[Prof Plum]

A few points:
It is unlikely that anyone will identify with a band that solely sings in a language they don't understand. They might like the tune - as in an instrumental hit - so a Japanese one hit wonder is more likely than a career j-band or j-idol.
"Pop" is marketing and very little to do with music. You look at your target audience, find out what they want, then sell it to them. In which case it is possible to manufacture a band that is Japanese and is successful to some degree. But the aim of the pop music industry is to make money. It is an up hill struggle to promote and style a Japanese group. It is far easier to promote and style an American one that speaks of their own culture.
Americans (for the most part) are insular; they are (for the most part, again) not particularly interested in other cultures - exceptions being those who live in the larger more cosmopolitan cities. Look what happens when Americans go abroad - rather than adapt or adopt they seek to install their own culture and impose their own ideals wherever they visit. Mac Donalds, Disney, "Democracy" etc. (America is not alone in this - most great empires Roman to British did exactly the same thing)
Japanese bands are made to appeal to their own culture. (or, if you are less cynical, they become successful because they appeal to their own culture.) "USA" brand bands are made to appeal to the American market. But "USA" is a popular brand throughout the world especially to young people. It epitomises freedom, coolness, openness - few things that most young people get in their lives whatever their culture.

[Tao Libra]

The fact that it's not mainstream where I live is one of the reasons that I like so much.

Excellent point, and I agree wholeheartedly. The reason I disovered J-Pop in the first place was that I got sick and tired of hearing the 'Top 40' crap that's all over MTV and the radio here in America — so one day while ruminating over the pointless herd mentality of listening to music just because everybody else around you is listening to it, I thought to myself, "If all that matters is that it says 'Top 40,' then why not pick the Top 40 from another country? Why not pick the Top 40 from clear on the other side of the friggin' planet? Hmmm… I kinda like Japan… so I wonder what's on the Top 40 in Japan?"

A quick Google search later, I discovered that Utada Hikaru's "Traveling" was (at that time) the #1 song in Japan. And a quick eBay search after that, my first taste of J-Pop was on its way to me. Now I hardly listen to anything that isn't from Japan — and my love of J-Pop led me to J-Dorama, so eventually I felt compelled to start learning Japanese just so that I could actually understand what I'm watching and listening to, so it's even got a Personal Enrichment™ factor going on. And none of that would've happened if J-Pop was popular here.

Because frankly, sometimes I enjoyed the fact that J-Pop annoyed almost all my closed-minded co-workers. It let me feel (quite justifiably) superior to them.



If everybody in America liked J-Pop, I'd probably have to start listening to music from India.

[Romance]

i dont want it to be big in usa ..

[Hayashi_kun]

I doubt J-pop will ever be mainstream in US, well that's just too bad for the Americans!
japanese hip-hop, rap music is sooo much better than the US counterparts, i think.
jpop is my life and i believe there are many who love j-music outside japan.
hope there will be more ppl who discover j-music!

[GhstDreamer]

People focused too much on language - while it's true that Americans and Canadians (despite the fact we do have bilingualism and many of us Canadians don't listen to French songs), most of the population is not used to listening to a song in a different language. However, Hispanics have made it big in the music entertainment industry singing in English and Spanish.

I am inclined to agree with Groink that's it's really all about cultural identity - mainly race being the major factor. Even if you don't look at Asian singers/bands from Asian countries, you will not find many (if at all) Asian-American/Canadian singers and bands making it big in America. Language is not a factor - they are fluent or native English speakers. Typically Asians are not associated with anything in the media (with the few exceptions in martial arts movies) for the mainstream audience. The mainstream audience typically views asians as either the geek, the one who can only speak in broken English, and basically not cool. So how can Asians (regardless of whether or not they're from America or from Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, or Taiwan) really break the stereotypes that are persistent in the entertainment industry? Especially when the entertainment industry is a reflection of what the general society wants and believes.

That being said, I live in a relatively small city in Ontario and a couple of months ago, I was quite taken back when I was reading the local newspaper and there was a rather big article on Jay Chou O__O and how he hopes to break into the American market. I was just surprised the newspaper even mentioned him lol.

[Mango]

If you count Russia, you could say that a more recent example of Asian music succeeding in the States would be the girl duo group, t.A.t.U... They were able to make it semi-big in the US, even with their accents. Of course, they had the whole lesbian thing going on, too.

[Romance]

but i want more people to discover the magic of japanese music, or japanese coolness in for example visual bands ;) but mainstream and **** which will never happen anyway, no thank you.

[jins]

The marketing was very bad for exodus. matter of fact I bought it on the first day and it had already been put on clearence. somebody in marketing really f****d up. I think the album sucked because she tried to make it more for Americans and dropped the quality. I think eventually it can be made mainstream, because the availability is slowly increasing. you can atleast or a lot of cds through most large stores and in some best buys on the west coast and in NY you can actually find cds in the stores. Also the prices arent gonna drop unless it becomes mainstream ebough to produce the cds here, because the actual import costs are not that much. They cost pretty much the same in Japan.

oh and i have been saying ayumi hamasaki looks like an alien for years now and thats why she will never make it here she would scare her entire fanbase.

[usagi_on_the_moon]

I doubt it would ever survive in America. People focus too much on the speech of hte singers, their accents, etc.
I don't want it to be big in America.

[horndogbuddhist]

I like J pop because it is so different from the stuff we have over here...take a look at Coco Lee she's very popular in both China & the US....The reason...she has albums that cater to an asian audience (ex- 1995's Women in Love VS 2005's Exposed) both have a different view and sound....I personally like Utada's US debut.....

For me, I like more of the Japanese "goth" music and it very much sounds like the US versions....(*praise to 2 Bullet* [band that sounds like Marylin Manson]). The point being is that it is incredible hard to break the US "mold" of what music especially pop is suppose to sound like, especially when it is coming from a different culture; IN other words, what the US considers pop is not necessarily what "asian pop" sounds like.

[Twilight Ronin]

J-Pop simply doesn't have to survive in the US. J-Pop has its primary market in Japan, that's a market of approximately 120 million people. I think the average J-Pop artist could care less whether he'll hit the charts in the US or not, he has his market and his primary fanbase in Japan, that's how it is. If there are fans in the US or Europe, fine, but any Japanese musician doesn't need them to make a living. That's how it is. And it's good that way.

It's the same with German pop. Basically no German speaking musician gives a damn whether he'd make it in the US or not. There are at least 2 examples where it worked, though. Falco and The Scorpions. But the big names just don't give a f***, please excuse my langauge. It's certainly not a necessity to be big in the US in order to be successful. The US are not the world.

Personally? I'm not listening to American pop, well... not that modern crap they're trying to sell these days where all the singers either look the same, or sound the same (Attack of the Clones). The high pitched squealing of a Britney Spears is... horrible.

[groink]

Scorpions

I saw this group at the US Festival back in 1983 (the festival Steve Wozniak of Apple fame sponsored.) They didn't even sound like a band from West Germany (where they were from at the time before the Berlin Wall came tumbling down.) Although they didn't sing in the German language, they were accepted in the US because of their great metal sound - much like Judas Priest (who were also at the festival that year.)

--- groink

[JC]

I like J-Pop because it's not mainstream in the West. But I do think J-Pop artists could end up being more popular in the UK, than the US.

As for Hikaru Utada, she had the potential to really cross-over - but she released the wrong songs and also wasn't promoted. (Not to mention that Exodus wasn't as good as any of her Japanese language albums - and how dumb to not include the ONE track US and UK people may have heard before and known her for..."Simple and clean").

The material she's put out since "Passion" is miles better than the stuff she put out from Exodus. (Had she released a track like "This is love" in the UK, I think more people woulda taken notice - that's an awesome song I've been killing recently!!!)

I think it was stupid of her record label to not release "Exodus 04" and "Let me give you my love". Releasing tracks produced by the likes of Timbaland (a mega popular US R&B and HipHop producer) would've really helped her chances in the US and UK.

[amaranth]

Lika Tao Libra said, Americans have never been interested in music with non-English lyrics - I mean, durably interested, I'm not talking about disposable summer hits that everyone loves because they are just soooo exotic. Some spanish-speaking artists sell well the US because there is a huge latin community (and those same artists almost always release songs in English when going for the American market), but how many Americans listen to non-British, non-Spanish European music, for example? And with Japan, the cultural gap is much wider than with Europe - not to mention that many best-selling artists in Japan are hardly expert craftsmen. The whole idol system makes Jpop a very hard sell abroad.

Even if you take the "good" artists (people who are actually capable of writing a song, reading a music sheet and/or playing an instrument), there's another problem: media visibility. Broadcasting Japanese artists on American TV or the radio would require removing American artists for the airwaves - how many record companies would take that chance?

Last problem: the quality of Japanese music itself... How many Japanese artists are ground-breaking enough to command attention? Sure, we all have our favorites, but let's face it, it's not Japan people turn to when looking for musical innovation and future trends . (Hint: two words, first one starts with a U, second with a K...).

Oh, and Twilight Ronin made a perfectly valid point: the Japanese market is HUGE. Why would Victor Entertainement or anyone else spend tons of money to launch their artists abroad, when the domestic market is so captive? The Japanese aren't like poor French-speaking Belgian artists who have a domestic audience of about 4 million and simply can't survive with music alone unless they make it big in France. (Hence the phrase: "big in Belgium", which I believe predates "big in Japan" )

[amaranth]

Typically Asians are not associated with anything in the media (with the few exceptions in martial arts movies)

Very true... How about Ricky Martin as a Shaolin monk? Or 50 Cent as Aya Ueto's love interest in her next drama? (could be fun, actually...)

[sorvani]

I think eventually it can be made mainstream, because the availability is slowly increasing. you can atleast or a lot of cds through most large stores and in some best buys on the west coast and in NY you can actually find cds in the stores.

the east and west coasts, maybe. won't happen anytime soon in middle america. Some of the people i work with are so isolationalistic & itroverted that i was surprised they noticed 9/11.

Also the prices arent gonna drop unless it becomes mainstream ebough to produce the cds here, because the actual import costs are not that much. They cost pretty much the same in Japan.

what import costs? places like cdjapan charge whatever price is on the CD/DVD. That IS how much it costs in japan. Order from them sometime. the CD will arrive with the price plain to see. <opinoin>Costs of japanese music is controlled by the industry to a degree that makes RIAA jealous.</opinion>:cussing:

I've sent numerous emails to Apple asking them to negotiate distribution rights for music on iTunes Japan in the US. i've never gotten back more than a form letter, but i keep asking and hoping. It will happen sooner or later. if not with Apple then with some other company. Though my sarcastic self notes that it will be rather later..

[SHD]

I've sent numerous emails to Apple asking them to negotiate distribution rights for music on iTunes Japan in the US. i've never gotten back more than a form letter, but i keep asking and hoping. It will happen sooner or later. if not with Apple then with some other company. Though my sarcastic self notes that it will be rather later..

this might work in the meantime:
http://www.jlist.com/SEARCH/itunes/1/

which means that someone in Japan maybe able to purchase a card and send it/the information to you as well.

[Shinpoe]

Doesn't Drunken Tigers enjoy a fair amount of popularity in the States? (They are Korean though).

[nikochanr3]

i kind of think a lot of people DON'T want it to come. It's like the movie threads on remakes. ITS NOT 100% LIKE I LIKE IT! DAMN AMERICANS KILLED IT! ARGH!!

I'd like to see a sincere and real attempt to market an asian artist who has made a GOOD and MARKETABLE cd. Utada's cd was neither, Coco's cd was neither, and there hasn't really been other attempts. Namie was considered for the longest time to bring over, they never pulled the trigger. Somehow i think americans will find a way to identify with a super hot girl, if she is talented also. Look at the kids market. Asian characters / actors are common. Koda Kumi actually has two american singles. Do you know them? No? Because NO money was put into pushing them

At some point, someone is going to crossover because the company bringing them over potrays them as being a great artist, not just asian.

(BTW, the arguments against asian music are the same ones raised against movies (the foreign movie market in the US is littered with movies from asia), comics (manga makes more money now than almost any niche in comics),.etc. If you look to fail, you will.)

[groink]

I find that the following quote from the movie Blazing Saddles is fitting:

You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

--- groink

[sorvani]

this might work in the meantime:
http://www.jlist.com/SEARCH/itunes/1/

i've looked at that before but i will not pay such a premium to jlist.

they charge $30 for a ¥2500 card. ¥110 to $1 means the card costs them $22.73. I know they have to pay for the cost of getting the cards, but $8? That doesn't count shipping if you have them mail it(you can get them to send to an email with the scan of the back of the card). it is even worse for the big cards. ¥10,000 is $115. ¥10,000 is only $90.91 at the ¥110 to $1 rate, that is $25 in their pocket. f*** that...

edit to add: although the yen is falling the last few days, it actually IS at ¥110 to $1. for most of last year it was actually around ¥117 to $1.

[groink]

i've looked at that before but i will not pay such a premium to jlist.

Well... ummm.... You ARE using Peter Payne's Japanese residential connection to get the card, nee? That should account for the extra expense.

--- groink

[bLaCkNbLuE]

i've looked at that before but i will not pay such a premium to jlist.

...that is $25 in their pocket. f*** that...

Peter Payne is a business man, and J-list is not a non-profit organization. I'm curious as to what mark-up you think is appropriate for his making it so much easier for the rest of us to access Japanese iTunes?

[sorvani]

Well... ummm.... You ARE using Peter Payne's Japanese residential connection to get the card, nee? That should account for the extra expense.

last time i checked most internet connections in japan cost roughly $80/month for basically 100mbps LAN. it will not take many sales of anything to recoup that part of his operating expenses. as the next poster said:

Peter Payne is a business man, and J-list is not a non-profit organization.

i understand that. profit is what drives a capitalist economy.

I'm curious as to what mark-up you think is appropriate for his making it so much easier for the rest of us to access Japanese iTunes?

$5 tops, which i admit the lowest cost card is close to. While not totally beside the point because it does imply a greater operating cost assuming they have these "in stock," the size of the card should not cause such a large discrepency in cost to the consumer. the physical process of obtaining and shipping (or emailing) the card is the same and does not justify the 330%($7.27 vs $24.09) price difference in obvious 3rd party fees.

The ¥10,000 ($115) card is still cheaper than buying 4 ¥2,500 (4@$30=$120) cards, which is enough to make most consumers go sweet i got a good deal. That is nothing but taking advandtage of the consumer, which in most normal business models would be compensated for by supply and demand. But with no competition to speak of and a small demand in the first place there is no real way to stop it from happening except to educate the consumer.

I have nothing against profit. but the difference here that simply a few hundred(maybe a thousand) dollars in overhead to hold the various card sizes in stock is not enough to justify the price difference to me. JLIST has no noticable difference in effort to get me the 10k card vs the 2.5k card.

some services are worth more if they are more expensive. pre paid cards are not. a flat rate on top of the original card cost should be the only charge.

Just my opinion since you asked.

[Li-Mei]

The whole world doesn't revolve around America. I could care less about who makes it big in which place at what time in what way. I just don't want the quality of music to go down. If Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Thai/Khmer/Vietnamese/Antartician artists can't make it in America then it doesn't mean that they aren't any good.

[groink]

As soon as someone throws the word "capitalist" into any argument nowadays, that's a sign for yours truly to get out and walk away. I keep hearing this term thrown out day after day on the Internet anytime profit is mentioned. And basically I'm quite fed up with the use of the term thrown into such a simple dialog like this.

--- groink

[bLaCkNbLuE]

As soon as someone throws the word "capitalist" into any argument nowadays, that's a sign for yours truly to get out and walk away. I keep hearing this term thrown out day after day on the Internet anytime profit is mentioned. And basically I'm quite fed up with the use of the term thrown into such a simple dialog like this.

--- groink

I agree.

[JunT86]

what about chinese music? arist like lee hom i think would prob be able to make it in US...

[groink]

The whole world doesn't revolve around America. I could care less about who makes it big in which place at what time in what way. I just don't want the quality of music to go down. If Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Thai/Khmer/Vietnamese/Antartician artists can't make it in America then it doesn't mean that they aren't any good.

I totally agree on all counts. In another topic about Asian movies becoming Hollywoodized (tm groink, inc.) I mentioned that I don't want the Asian to be taken out of any Asian creative work. There's an element in Asian music most of us cannot detect, despite the fact that we enjoy Asian music because of it. When the same artist takes his artform and adapt to a totally new market, that unknown element doesn't carry forward. And that's why some of us are against taking the same Asian content and tweak it somehow to fit the taste of a different market. IMHO the attempt shouldn't even be made unless you REALLY know it's going to work.

I'll bring up an example that's closer to my heart - Matsuda Seiko. She released the CD Area 62 in the US way before many of today's Asian stars tried the same. If anyone has the skills to make it big in America, it should be Seiko-chan. She speaks English very clearly, with very little signs of an Asian accent. She also writes much of her own music. And her record label/agent, Sun Music/Victor Entertainment, has deep roots in the American music industry - probably deeper than Sony Music IMHO. Her face has also been seen by Americans in several movies and TV shows, including Armageddon and Final Vendetta.

But despite the multi-page resume and her talent, even she couldn't crack into the Billboard charts.

Here's an even more disappointing example that's even closer to me: Ito Yuna. In short, Jasmine Trias is MUCH BIGGER than Yuna in the Hawaiian islands. All Jasmine ever did was make it to American Idol because of a really lame call-in campaign by the Hawaii residents that was TOTALLY EMBARASSING for everyone in Hawaii. But Yuna, just based on her accomplishments alone, is a lot bigger than Jasmine will ever be. She's won a Japan Record Award, has a mega-hit song in the multi-billion-yen movie NANA, made dozens of appearances on radio and TV shows like Music Station, and even made it on Kohaku just MONTHS after her debut. And she's STILL running strong with songs like Precious. But despite all of that, you NEVER see Yuna mentioned even ONCE in the Hawaii-based media. Nothing in the Star-Bulletin, nothing mentioned in the local TV news shows. So-called multi-cultural TV stations like KIKU-TV and KBFD-TV hasn't aired any specials about her. And HAKUBUNDO doesn't even carry her CD-singles on a regular basis (but they have a crap load of Hello! Project stuff). Even though both Jasmine and Yuna were born and raised in Hawaii and are of the same generation (Jasmine is from Mililani, and Yuna is from Honolulu - a stone's throw away from where Michelle Wie lives), Jasmine gets ALL of the local publicity. A friend of mine says it is simply because Jasmine sings in English and Yuna doesn't.

When Yuna comes home in June, I'm going to personally call up all the media outlets and make sure they know who she is.

--- groink

[tUrtleAE86]

It's pretty disappointing that Ito Yuna's accomplishments aren't well known in Hawaii. I thought she might have had a pretty good following. Anyways, it's good to hear that your willing to spread the word about her talent and success, groink.

On another note, one of my favorite artists is Rie Fu. She's a Japanese singer/songwriter. Not terribly popular, but I think she's building a good foundation for herself. Although the majority of her songs are in English and Japanese, or just Japanese, her English is perfect. She's currently studying fine art in UK, performs at small venues and does the majority of her songwriting there.

She does have a few English-only versions of her songs, which are right up there with her Japanese songs, in terms of quality. I think that her music would be very palatable for North American and British audiences.

She would like to release music in the US and UK, sometime in the future, but, I don't think she's going to rush it. I doubt that she'll be a chart-topping superstar in North America, or even Japan. But, I think she's got it in her to have a decent following outside of Japan as well.

[mizune]

When Yuna comes home in June, I'm going to personally call up all the media outlets and make sure they know who she is.

I agree with you except you may want to check first to see if she wants it broadcasted...Not that I think she'll be mobbed or anything but...
You know her family so you'd be the best judge, but sometimes ppl just want to come home and be anonymous...

[x_XJules]

first of all... Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

no, never.

secondly,

I find that the following quote from the movie Blazing Saddles is fitting:

You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

--- groink

I am so glad someone has quoted blazing saddles, and what a perfect quote indeed.

[liquid_hell]

not that i don't want j-artists to break into the american scene, but if it means having to adjust to their snobbish i-want-everything-my-way....

i fell in love with artists such as utada and ayumi because of the way they sound and i think sticking to their asian roots would actually work out better. and if not, a big f-you to those who can't even open their minds enough to accept it. but that's just me.

[Prince of Moles]

Hmm, maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really care one way or the other because I consider all pop, whether American, British, Japanese, or whatever as basically part of mass culture. It's all fundamentally the same. None of these are traditional. It's not like J-rock or J-music uses the shakuhachi or other traditional instruments that has been around for 1000 years with Japanese scale. They all follow Western scale, and all use Western instruments afterall.

[nikochanr3]

Jasmine Trias was top three on American Idol. Yuna Ito was not. I prefer Yuna Ito 1,075 ,656 times more than Jasmine Trias (and i have met jasmine too and she is just a doll), but her sucess is in Japan, not Hawaii, and in Japanese, not english. It's almost a given which one would be given more press. Top Three on the most popular TV show in the US yfor the last 5 years is pretty damn helpful in getting you well known.

Yuna Ito has an outside chance of being better known in the US cause Viz video is in love with Nana, and it's coming, and if you can watch Nana and not have her make an impression on you, you aren't trying hard enough.

[Starlightkitty7]

I doubt it b/c its something a lot of people just wouldn't be able to 'get used to'. Japanese pop is nice but its not the same as the pop down here and since a lot of people here didn't really grow up listening to it...or don't even want to give it a chance...i doubt it would. (I love j-pop though and would love to hear it being sold in stores down here...but not a whole lot of people would buy it so I doubt they'd do that...)

[nikochanr3]

This topic is actually mistated cause its more WILL A JAPANESE ARTIST ACHIEVE MAINSTREAM SUCCESS IN AMERICA, not WILL J-POP MAKE IT IN AMERICA. I think if Utada released a R&B cd in the US and sold a million copies, that would be considered a success, whereas a bunch of blonde blue eyed girls singing Eurobeat and doing Para Para would not. (Those blonde blue eyed girls will be managed by me btw...)

I think we just want our favorites exposed to other people so they can see how great they are ultimately.

[xCrow]

I think the problem is mainly the cultural barrier. But there's other factors to throw there too. x:

[Jinnay]

Maybe not JPOP. But Jrock most likely. Considering Dir en Grey is starting to get popular since their album release here.

[Zan]

I think Dir en Grey can survive in America and in Europe too...
the cultural barriers started to fall and with the passing of time in some years maybe it will be possible have more and more fans and more and more concerts, cds and dvds... sugoi!

[manon]

yes yes theres a cultural barrier- I do think JRock will make it since most rock sounds the same- it just will be in a different language and maybe some are willing and maybe some won't be. I guess listening won't matter because good music is good music- I think appearance will matter since americans are used to different looks- like someone said americans are looking for sexy while japanese like cute. However, if a johnny's entertainment group perfomed in all that flashy/feathery wear, americans might not be used to it lol since they like their guys in abercrombie...But rock groups would have a better chance than say boybands (when it comes to performances) I wish theyd make it !

[deathstar550]

Will Japanese music ever achieve mainstream success in America?
Music, no matter where it's from, is strongly rooted in culture. Unless the popular culture that the Asian music is rooted in somehow survives the trip to American shores, the experience of said music collapses like a house without a foundation.

That said, there's just too big of a gap between Japanese culture and American culture.

What is Japanese culture's attitude towards the following?
1) Romance
2) How a male should act/dress/talk
3) How a female should act/dress/talk

Now what about American culture's attitude towards those same topics?

The difference is really quite obvious.
Just look at how differently the two cultures handle romance. An exchange of words that would be considered "sweet" or "honest' in Japan would be laughed upon as being "corny" in America.

A lot of this cultural difference rubs off on the music. Hence the barrier.

The music from Taiwan and Korea are in the same situation. The way that romance is handled in popular culture is very similar between Japan, Taiwan, and Korea (and I suspect other regions in Asia as well) -- they share a similar "contemporary cultural language," so to speak, and so that's why it's easy for popular culture to mix in this region.
There's too big of a cultural difference across the Pacific, however. I'd put my money on "no" as the answer to the question.

Will a Japanese artist ever achieve mainstream success in America?
In the foreseeable future, short answer: no.
Not unless that artist is willing to give up everything Japanese about his/her music in the first place.
Which begs the question: why even bother, then?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not that I'm complaining about Japanese music not becoming mainstream here, however. The Japanese artists would need to sacrifice too much for the sake of becoming "big" in the US -- it's really more of a cultural barrier than a language barrier.

My experience with American music is an example of the culture barrier. Spending my early years in Taiwan, I had plenty of exposure to (obviously) Chinese music and culture. Japanese popular culture was (and still is) really big in Taiwan, so I got plenty of that too.
Moving to America gave me access to American music. I started listening to Korean music last, but I was much fonder of it than I was of American music was, due to the similarity of the "contemporary cultural language" that I talked about above.

American music still doesn't click very well with me. Of course there'll be a few songs that I happen to find that I like, but even that hasn't happened in a very long while. Language can be translated, but are we supposed to do with culture?

My friends can poke fun at my "Asian music" all day long, but it doesn't change the fact that I think the American music they have in their playlists sucks.

[groink]

Will Japanese music ever achieve mainstream success in America?

Man, that analysis is sooooooooooo cool! And it was done so damn groink-ish, too... I had to re-read it a few times just to make sure I didn't write it.

--- groink

[pokute]

I have been waiting patiently for somebody who cares more about this topic to mention that Pizzicato Five and Shonen Knife were household names in college radio all over the U.S. for YEARS, and that right this very minute there are dozens of Japanese bands releasing on U.S. labels, and getting prominent rotation on college radio. There are hundreds of college stations playing Jrock every day. WRAS Atlanta has a two-hour jrock show every week!

You can go to this website and find out all about the very active Jrock scene in the U.S., including play dates of Japanese bands all over the country:

http://www.rockofjapan.com/

Now I expect all the ignorant anklebiters here will spend the month of June taking the "mickey" out of college radio...

[cgozun]

I agree with that article whole heatedly. Among other things, yeah Americans don't like you flaunting your ethnic/cultural backgrounds. Just look at the backlash from the "A Day without Immigrants" parade.

[nikochanr3]

I have been waiting patiently for somebody who cares more about this topic to mention that Pizzicato Five and Shonen Knife were household names in college radio all over the U.S. for YEARS, and that right this very minute there are dozens of Japanese bands releasing on U.S. labels, and getting prominent rotation on college radio. There are hundreds of college stations playing Jrock every day. WRAS Atlanta has a two-hour jrock show every week!

You can go to this website and find out all about the very active Jrock scene in the U.S., including play dates of Japanese bands all over the country:

http://www.rockofjapan.com/

Now I expect all the ignorant anklebiters here will spend the month of June taking the "mickey" out of college radio...

yeah, i got that too from reading this thread, that while j-pop is not broken out, j-rock has. maybe j-pop will the same way.

has ellegarden made any inroads? does anyone know? i LOVE them, and the occasioanl english song doesnt hurt.

And for the person who mentioned the immigrant day, dude - people saying to allow all 10 million or so illegals to suddenly become legal is not equivalent to people wanting to listen to Utada or not. Give me a break. Those are pretty different level issues.

[okitagirl]

This is very interesting and maybe it is where you live in the US but I like Japanese music very much. I don't understand one d*** word but it is all about the music and the flow. I played it for my friend and she really liked it too. My co-workers don't think it's strange that I listen to it and even though they may not like it, they respect me and my choices. I don't force TM Revolution on them and they don't force Garth Brooks on me! (Thank God)

I personally don't think a break through is too far off and we'll see it in our lifetime. The fact that J-music is being played on the radios is a sure sign that there is change coming. We, Americans, can be closed minded but this is a country of everybody. Yes there is a lot of ignorance and hatred to change. Most people who live in smaller rural areas are far less likely to listen to or buy anything outside what they like. But there are a lot of people who are open and don't really care who is singing the music. We listen to operas and don't understand that either.

BTW, I truly dislike the wave of American music today! You don't have to have any talent just be sexy and your in. I'll be glad when this crap is over!

[nikochanr3]

Its funny cause i dont like j-rock too much, but maybe i should, cause the worst thing to me about american music today is that it became so p***yf**d. When did Rock become folk? Like fast tolk music. Its killing me....its killing me...

[groink]

BTW, I truly dislike the wave of American music today! You don't have to have any talent just be sexy and your in. I'll be glad when this crap is over!

LOL! I find this statement funny because this is EXACTLY what JPOP and J-idols are - pretty/cute/handsome faces that symbolizes what boys and girls want to be. It started in the 1970's and it continues onto the present. Some examples:

- Agnes Chan
- SMAP
- Sakai Noriko (seriously - although I love her, she is not a great singer)
- Hatsukoi Jidai (the 70's trio of Yamaguchi Momoe, Mori Masako and Sakurada Junko)
- Minamino Yoko
- Ueto Aya
- Fukada Kyoko (yes yes yes, she CANNOT sing)

Remember now that in the geinokai, marketability is of most importance. Fans totally bypass all the flaws of an idol and they still love them to death. Although sex appeal is weighed much heavier in America, IMHO it reaches the same conclusion as the J-idol craze: marketability.

--- groink

[hazchung]

I agreed with Groink's comment and i believe this is true to a certain extend in every music industry around the world.
i think Angela Aki could be the one to break into the US market, she is talented and her english is very good.
she will be very popular when Final fantasy 12 release in the US, the in game song 'Kiss me Goodbye' is excellent.

[minikui]

I'm digging this threat out to show you that japanese music can be successful ... in Germany at least ... and it's not even the best of japanese music that you can get

these girls are right now #15 of the german charts



just wonder which of Hinoi Team's songs they'll take for their second single ...

[minikui]

Nana Kitade seems to have released her album in the US two weeks ago.
So if you like her music, now is the time to support her ^^




http://www.myspace.com/tofunanakitade

"Upcoming Shows
Aug 8 2006 7:00P
Virgin Megastore Boston"

I'd like to go there O.O

[xYuki]

of course it will...as long as we have people out there who play the heck out of games like final fantasy and kingdom hearts.

[GhstDreamer]

i think Angela Aki could be the one to break into the US market, she is talented and her english is very good.
she will be very popular when Final fantasy 12 release in the US, the in game song 'Kiss me Goodbye' is excellent.

As much as I like Angela Aki I doubt she will make it into mainstream based solely on her FF 12 song release. I teach and most of my students who play videogames like FF don't care or know these singers or attempt to seek them out. They are more likely to go out and buy the newest Black-Eye Peas cd than Angela Aki.

I guess I'm a cynic compared to a lot of the posters in this thread. I still don't see any Asian artist (domestic or foreign) to make it mainstream in North America. As I've said before too many people focus on the language barrier but it really isnt, even Asian-American/Canadian artists themselves have difficulty becoming mainsream. So cultural identity cannot be one of the significant issues why Japanese (or Asians in general) artists cannot become mainstream. The reason I believe Angela Aki will have a very difficult time to become popular in North America is that she still looks too Asian. Mainstream North American music listeners are just not used to listening to music with an Asian face attached to it. They can't relate to the singer/singers and there lies the problem.

The only singer I think may be able to cross into mainstream would be Crystal Kay - she's half Korean and half African-American and she sings well in English. She may have a much easier time to break into the North American market based on her African-American background.

[groink]

The only singer I think may be able to cross into mainstream would be Crystal Kay - she's half Korean and half African-American and she sings well in English. She may have a much easier time to break into the North American market based on her African-American background.

It is interesting that you mention Crystal Kay. Most of you are probably too young to remember, but back in 1990, Mariah Carey's ethnic make-up was also brought up several times in the mass media when she made her debut (she's half Irish and half African-American). This was a big deal because other R&B singers of her sub-genre (Whitney Houston) were pure African-American. But soon after her debut, her ethnicity was a non-issue because she proved herself well.

Going back to Crystal Kay, if she sings in CLEAR and UNDERSTANDABLE English, then she has realistic potential. I still subscribe to the idea that an Asian singing English period is not enough to justify his/her marketability. And, like I mentioned earlier, cultural identity also covers the Asian look of a person. I mentioned in another topic where even Power Rangers had to be re-filmed with non-Asian actors before it can be aired and accepted on American TV. I think Crystal Kay can "slide" by the Asian identity because her strong dark skin. Even Brandy Norwood, who has no Asian blood, has those sharp eyes that Crystal has, so that won't affect her. Remember that most people think that Tiger Woods is black, when in fact he's only one-quarter black (he's also one-quarter American Indian and half Thai.)

--- groink

[x0xTEELEEx0x]

Why do you want JPop/JRock to be mainstream? The fact that it's not mainstream where I live is one of the reasons that I like so much.

Yes yes! That's totally how I feel... cause I can't even listen to anything that's on the radio, once a song hits it, I don't wanna hear it again. I think if JPop hits mainstream I'd be a little sad lol... happy that it's made it, but sad.

[Junfan21]

If only more people were to get into the Asian culture and everything, I think then that maybe Asian singers might have a chance in the U.S.A.

[lovershigh]

i noticed no one is really talking about jrock artist as much as jpop. well heres what i think anyway. when i first got into jrock it was really hard to find even a l'arc en ciel site. which is of course one of the most popular bands these days and has been for a long time in japan. now there is so many fansites from america you can easily find online. since then many japanese artist have come to america artist such as:

l'arc en ciel
mucc
camino
duel jewel
do as infinity
psycho le cemu
despairs ray
nami tamaki
phantasmagoria
high and mighty color
angela
hyde
puffyamiyumi
nana kitade
dir en grey
and many more.. including those bands that have been coming here for a while eastern youth. thee michelle gun elephant. and tmr back then.

oh yea we even have some american labels like tofu and magazines.

anyway just a list of the concerts ive been to. after attending these concerts i noticed that the popularity keeps rising and rising. getting front row at a concert like larc for example (which i had to run as fast as i ever ran) is merely a dream. i did notice that these artist are mostlly popular with the younger crowd. but it was hard to meet someone that was into any japanese artist back then and now i often meet alot of people. so its just gaining popularity. with the younger crowd i noticed not really the older. can the younger crowd make this music take off? i have spotted artist on mtv already such as puffyamiyumi and dir en grey pvs like saku and the final. i guess in my opinion i dont really want it to hit big over here. it kinda degrades the people that have been into it for a while when you say some teenie talking about a band and not really knowing what they are talking about and thinking they are better than you. anyway thats just from an experince. sorry if i said anything that might have been said before i was in a hurry and just wanted to contribute to this thread. i am new with posting but ive downloaded dramas here. just giving an opinion thank you.

[groink]

i noticed no one is really talking about jrock artist as much as jpop.

I think Jrock is much different from Jpop regarding this very topic. Jpop has its very own unique sound and look you just don't see in Western pop music. On the other hand, rock/metal basically have similar sounds between the east and west. This leads me to believe that, for the most part, the rock sound is very important, and all other things like the lyrics and looks become secondary. So an American attending a l'arc en ciel, HYDE, or any other rock/metal concert isn't that unusual. Rock and metal is very universal across the globe. But IMHO pop music is very local to the area.

And Jrock invading the west isn't new either. In the 1980's, I was a total Loudness fan, and at the time I didn't speak a single word of Japanese. But I was learning to play metal guitar at the time, and I worshiped Takasaki Akira almost as much as my other heroes like Joe Satriani and Kirk Hammett. Loudness constantly toured in the west, along with Motley Crue, Stryper and Poison... Well, those are all poser bands, which caused Loudness to become a poser band itself by the late 1980's.

In summary, that's why Jrock hasn't been brought up.

--- groink

[lovershigh]

well there are those bands in the '80s of course. besides those some bands to ten d to come up from time to time. i remember seeing eyes love you by hide when it came on mtv back when the pv first came out. but i think its just making a comeback and getting pretty big since the '80s and all the random bands that pop out. anime is at its biggest since then also right? helping promote all kinds of jrock/jpop bands. you can always talk about the old days with speed racer and akira in america. but its making the biggest come back after all i believe. anyway 8 of the bands that i listed were bands that came in 2006! and the year is not even over yet was it really that popular in the 80s? there is already a lineup for a convention here in houston. 12012 a visual kei band. just 1 1/2 years ago houston didnt have any anime convetions now we have had like 4. oh and also koda kumi came here last year. i dont know how much more popular its going to get but i was just pointing out that its in an incline these past years.

[oceansportrait]

The fact that it's not mainstream where I live is one of the reasons that I like so much.

I don't see why so many people have a problem with music becoming "mainstream". Why is it wrong for an artist to become popular? Is it somehow wrong for an artist to be able to now live off of his/her songs and be able to concentrate on writing music rather than struggling to make ends meet by working part-time jobs followed by street performances out on the street where the most they'll make is a couple of bucks a night?

Becoming "mainstream" just means a wider audience that love and appreciate the artist's songs. It doesn't necessarily mean "selling out". Just because an artist becomes popular with the masses doesn't mean the quality of the songs will be any less.

[docipain]

we all now that this girlgroup which is in germany successful right now is not from japan.....they are a german production....and i think that makes it different..of course Germany has the hype now with Japan in general...and many bands are coming right now---but that's not all...also the fashion industry kidnaps japanese fashion and says this is their own style >.< awful...

but topic is usa...i don't think that japanese music can be very successful in the usa....the us has other musical claims...it's always the same **** on top (sorry for that evil word ) but that's everywhere the same. it's always difficult for artists from another country who sing in such a exotic language to reach the charts. i think the only chance to get in there...is a really good commercialization...

[pegsball]

I think Japanese artists would have more success trying their luck in the UK! I think music like Def Tech and Polysics would go a long way here! We love a bit of the abstract and different - you just have to check out how diverse the music is that comes out of the UK!