http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiap ... index.html
have nothing to say to this...
ridiculous people and ridiculous japanese people who voted no.
Japan.. Abe: No new apology for war brothels
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narushinyak
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I see enough people have viewed this topic, but no one has commented yet. Probably because this is a very sensitive subject.
Well, I can't say that Japan's position on thi is surprising. I've yet to see a country that would willingly and without heavy proof and international pressure admit to its past wrongdoings and crimes. For a country like Japan where, as I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong), "not loosing face" is very important this is even more true. Just my opinion - I'm not laying claim to any expertise or objectivity in the matter.
Well, I can't say that Japan's position on thi is surprising. I've yet to see a country that would willingly and without heavy proof and international pressure admit to its past wrongdoings and crimes. For a country like Japan where, as I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong), "not loosing face" is very important this is even more true. Just my opinion - I'm not laying claim to any expertise or objectivity in the matter.
What you talking about? germany admitted openly,educated their future children and build monuments to never forget their wrong doings.Pekana wrote:I see enough people have viewed this topic, but no one has commented yet. Probably because this is a very sensitive subject.
Well, I can't say that Japan's position on thi is surprising. I've yet to see a country that would willingly and without heavy proof and international pressure admit to its past wrongdoings and crimes. For a country like Japan where, as I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong), "not loosing face" is very important this is even more true. Just my opinion - I'm not laying claim to any expertise or objectivity in the matter.
japan on the other hand, erased their history, minmize their wrong doings, never admitted and worship their past killers.
Agreed.
For as much as I Love the Japanese for their culture and history and of course their television... their continued unwillingness to both admit and apologize for past wrongdoings due to the cultural facet of shame confounds me.
The Germans owning up to their shame isn't the same thing. And it's not the same thing because the Germans wouldn't be forcing large amounts of their population to commit suicide by admitting the things they did.
I see Japan atoning for their sins properly in the next ten to fifteen years after much of their WWII verterans are either dead already or have become senile or stricken with alzheimers.
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Oh, and it's not like the United States is any purer than the Japanese of the Germans in this regard either. Our schools don't teach about the WWII detention camps for the Japanese. Or the persecution of German Amrican citizens during 'several' time periods, not just WWII.
Not to mention American history books glorify certain leaders such as Abraham Lincoln as having played a larger role in deciding the course of events than they really did. They also gloss over important events as afterthoughts. But this is all because history is written by the winners.
The Germans owning up to their shame isn't the same thing. And it's not the same thing because the Germans wouldn't be forcing large amounts of their population to commit suicide by admitting the things they did.
I see Japan atoning for their sins properly in the next ten to fifteen years after much of their WWII verterans are either dead already or have become senile or stricken with alzheimers.
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Oh, and it's not like the United States is any purer than the Japanese of the Germans in this regard either. Our schools don't teach about the WWII detention camps for the Japanese. Or the persecution of German Amrican citizens during 'several' time periods, not just WWII.
Not to mention American history books glorify certain leaders such as Abraham Lincoln as having played a larger role in deciding the course of events than they really did. They also gloss over important events as afterthoughts. But this is all because history is written by the winners.
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Puppet Princess
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Does it really help the victim (the few still alive, that is) to have a bunch of people who had nothing to due with your abuse apologizes for some old or dead guys? Personally I wouldn't feel any better because it's not someone who feels guilty for their crimes apologizing, it’s someone who pities you for being taken advantage of by someone else.
Also, if it was mostly Korean and Chinese women who were abused, why is America demanding an apology?
Also, if it was mostly Korean and Chinese women who were abused, why is America demanding an apology?
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Roman Krem
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This topic is exactly why move love for Japanese culture and the country itself only goes so far, despite a big part of my life revolving around Budo and the Japanese sensei who brought it to North America post-war. I don't know why the Japanese government is doing this, but I do hope every Japanese citizen is deeply ashamed of their countries past.
A recent poll a few days ago showed that Canada and Japan were the two "most liked" countries in the world. (yay us), but don't forget that Japan only became the peaceful and outgoing country it is today because we kicked their ass.
I personally don't know how much "face saving" Japan will get from denying all of this, but it won't make Koreans and Chinese from disliking them anymore then they do now. But really, politics isn't exactly something I can say I know well, so that's all I'll say.
A recent poll a few days ago showed that Canada and Japan were the two "most liked" countries in the world. (yay us), but don't forget that Japan only became the peaceful and outgoing country it is today because we kicked their ass.
I personally don't know how much "face saving" Japan will get from denying all of this, but it won't make Koreans and Chinese from disliking them anymore then they do now. But really, politics isn't exactly something I can say I know well, so that's all I'll say.
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Pandemonium
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Because Japan is used to ignoring China and Korea, who have been demanding apology for years.Puppet Princess wrote:Also, if it was mostly Korean and Chinese women who were abused, why is America demanding an apology?
US is being used in this matter because we have more influence on Japan and because China and Korea have gotten good at twisting our arm
Remind me again how was Canada involved in World War II with Japan?
And, it really astonishes me when people refer to wars as "kicking their ass". People died in these wars, lives were torned apart, and fates of nations were involuntarily and often times violently changed.
As for Japan changing, I believe that the West forced Japan to change quicker. But, all peoples have the necessity for peace and goodwill else they will face anarchy. Eventually, Japan without the force of the West would have changed. I am not saying the defeat was not good for Japan, but I do not believe that peace and freedom is demographically unique.
Japan should just decide officially. Either yes or no. This is their heritage as many have mentioned not like the rest of the world is sooo spotless...
And, it really astonishes me when people refer to wars as "kicking their ass". People died in these wars, lives were torned apart, and fates of nations were involuntarily and often times violently changed.
As for Japan changing, I believe that the West forced Japan to change quicker. But, all peoples have the necessity for peace and goodwill else they will face anarchy. Eventually, Japan without the force of the West would have changed. I am not saying the defeat was not good for Japan, but I do not believe that peace and freedom is demographically unique.
Japan should just decide officially. Either yes or no. This is their heritage as many have mentioned not like the rest of the world is sooo spotless...
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Athaclena42
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Re: Agreed.
I recall learning about the Japanese detainment camps during WWII, and I vaguely recall learning about persecution of German Americans during WWII at least. And I'm fairly certain that I learned it in school. Usually it was right after we learned about Peal Harbor.Danji wrote: Oh, and it's not like the United States is any purer than the Japanese of the Germans in this regard either. Our schools don't teach about the WWII detention camps for the Japanese. Or the persecution of German Amrican citizens during 'several' time periods, not just WWII.
And here I used to belittle my education...
bakan3ko wrote:Remind me again how was Canada involved in World War II with Japan?
And, it really astonishes me when people refer to wars as "kicking their ass". People died in these wars, lives were torned apart, and fates of nations were involuntarily and often times violently changed.
As for Japan changing, I believe that the West forced Japan to change quicker. But, all peoples have the necessity for peace and goodwill else they will face anarchy. Eventually, Japan without the force of the West would have changed. I am not saying the defeat was not good for Japan, but I do not believe that peace and freedom is demographically unique.
Japan should just decide officially. Either yes or no. This is their heritage as many have mentioned not like the rest of the world is sooo spotless...
ha , America , is not a spotless country. Neither is Germany or any other country that has ever been involved in war. Do you know how many wars America has been in, and how the rest of the world still hates them for that? I would just say, apologize. The hate has to end somewhere. China and Korea really don't like Japan , still, even though the war was sixty years ago . Just say, sorry. That's all there is to it. Apologize to the women who were affected. Show some love, who cares if they still hate you in the end, at least their anger will be deterred by something.
Very touchy topic, this stuff divides rather than unites most of the time.
From what i recall, Shiro Ishii was one of the main reasons for most of the outrage towards Japan from other asian nations during, after, and to this day. The crimes he and country men Unit 731 committed in China during WWII are said to have been more cruel, ruthless and heinously experimental than even those perpetrated by the Nazis... yet Japanese textbooks fail to mention this, or they use complete revisionist attempts to blot out these crimes from relatively recent world history... which enrages the rest of those in this world that are enlightened to these truths.
I am American, and the sad pathetic truth is that my government did not do one thing to bring Ishii to face his crimes but let him return to Japan to live and die a hero, for those crimes. Not only this, but the US paid money for the criminal "human-research/murder/experiments" data that Ishii and Unit 731 had obtained through all that murder and torture.
It was not only China, and Korea that suffered, it was Filipinos too and many other asian nations during WWI and WWII.
It doesn't help when Japan's Prime Minister visits Ishii's shrine to outrage the Chinese, this won't help the situation at all.
I am for unity and peace, but things like this seem to be a thorn in the side regarding maintaining balance and peace in asia diplomatically.
From what i recall, Shiro Ishii was one of the main reasons for most of the outrage towards Japan from other asian nations during, after, and to this day. The crimes he and country men Unit 731 committed in China during WWII are said to have been more cruel, ruthless and heinously experimental than even those perpetrated by the Nazis... yet Japanese textbooks fail to mention this, or they use complete revisionist attempts to blot out these crimes from relatively recent world history... which enrages the rest of those in this world that are enlightened to these truths.
I am American, and the sad pathetic truth is that my government did not do one thing to bring Ishii to face his crimes but let him return to Japan to live and die a hero, for those crimes. Not only this, but the US paid money for the criminal "human-research/murder/experiments" data that Ishii and Unit 731 had obtained through all that murder and torture.
It was not only China, and Korea that suffered, it was Filipinos too and many other asian nations during WWI and WWII.
It doesn't help when Japan's Prime Minister visits Ishii's shrine to outrage the Chinese, this won't help the situation at all.
I am for unity and peace, but things like this seem to be a thorn in the side regarding maintaining balance and peace in asia diplomatically.
Re: Agreed.
Well, I am glad to hear this, because when I went to school 20 years earlier, history stopped after WWI. Since everyone's father and uncles had served in WWII it could be a touchy subject.Athaclena42 wrote:I recall learning about the Japanese detainment camps during WWII, and I vaguely recall learning about persecution of German Americans during WWII at least. And I'm fairly certain that I learned it in school. Usually it was right after we learned about Peal Harbor.Danji wrote: Oh, and it's not like the United States is any purer than the Japanese of the Germans in this regard either. Our schools don't teach about the WWII detention camps for the Japanese. Or the persecution of German Amrican citizens during 'several' time periods, not just WWII.
And here I used to belittle my education...
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Roman Krem
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Media don't tell all of the story.
Educate yourself.
Congress backstabs US ally; Times lie trashes Abe
http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2007/03/0 ... ashes-abe/
Educate yourself.
Congress backstabs US ally; Times lie trashes Abe
http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2007/03/0 ... ashes-abe/
Abe recently apologized about this though chose his words carefully.
I have to agree with the post above me- this is a very hard issue to understand if you don't know the full story so don't to criticizing the prime minister >___>;;
In the early 1990s Japan apologized to the "comfort" women and offered them all compensation money (Which many consider to be a bribe of sorts) and many of them took it. Abe statement goes against the bill passed in the diet during the 90s that admitted to the issue and tried to make up for it the only way they knew how- with money. Why would he retract this statement?
Well, for one thing his old boy conservative (LDP is a conservative party, don't let the L for liberal confuse you xD) supporters were beginning to support him less and less. Some believe the whole issue with comfort women was brought up in order to regain support from conservatives though that hasn't worked.
Another issue is the one the link in infimum's post seems to address... Congress is getting involved in this. @___@;;; American soldiers used their fair amount of "comfort" women during the 7 year occupation of Japan and I don't think anyone ever apologized. Congress has better things to do than provoke Japan right now... =___=;; I also don't feel the US Congress has the rights to tell the Japanese Government what it can or cannot do.
In the end it's a big issue that won't be resolved anytime soon. Whether it's this, or visiting the Yasukuni jinja (Former PM Koizumi's issue) there are a lot of hard feelings over WWII going every direction in the far east. I want peace as much as anyone but it's going to take awhile.
As mean as it sounds I think once relics from the WWII era has passed away things might start to change ^^;; Old conservatives in the Japanese government are fiercely defensive of their country.
I have to agree with the post above me- this is a very hard issue to understand if you don't know the full story so don't to criticizing the prime minister >___>;;
In the early 1990s Japan apologized to the "comfort" women and offered them all compensation money (Which many consider to be a bribe of sorts) and many of them took it. Abe statement goes against the bill passed in the diet during the 90s that admitted to the issue and tried to make up for it the only way they knew how- with money. Why would he retract this statement?
Well, for one thing his old boy conservative (LDP is a conservative party, don't let the L for liberal confuse you xD) supporters were beginning to support him less and less. Some believe the whole issue with comfort women was brought up in order to regain support from conservatives though that hasn't worked.
Another issue is the one the link in infimum's post seems to address... Congress is getting involved in this. @___@;;; American soldiers used their fair amount of "comfort" women during the 7 year occupation of Japan and I don't think anyone ever apologized. Congress has better things to do than provoke Japan right now... =___=;; I also don't feel the US Congress has the rights to tell the Japanese Government what it can or cannot do.
In the end it's a big issue that won't be resolved anytime soon. Whether it's this, or visiting the Yasukuni jinja (Former PM Koizumi's issue) there are a lot of hard feelings over WWII going every direction in the far east. I want peace as much as anyone but it's going to take awhile.
As mean as it sounds I think once relics from the WWII era has passed away things might start to change ^^;; Old conservatives in the Japanese government are fiercely defensive of their country.
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