[Discussion] Proposal Daisakusen (Operation Love)
The discussion is so lively here ... haha. I haven't watched the series yet but I am actually just waiting until all the subbed episodes are out before I watch them cause I know ... I just know that I can finish all these episodes in one go ... And I don't want to be pulling my hair for the next episode ...
Anyway I just wanted to add my thought to the discussion regarding Ken-Rei relationship. I honestly hope for a happy ending but I understand too why people feel frustrated by Rei and also by Ken's failure to confess his feeling. If we are talking real life here the fact that they're childhood friends may be a factor in the failure of them becoming a great couple ...
Most childhood friends that I know they go through a lot of stuff together. They can become as close as siblings ... they know each other's fears, hopes, dreams, and desires. They know each other's picture of the perfect significant others ... which can lead to higher expectations. Maybe Rei is expecting something more from Ken just because she feels that he should've known her better than everybody else. On the other hand Ken feels that Rei should've been able to feel his feeling for her ... I mean they've been together forever so she should've known the kind of person he is. So the fact that both sides have higher expectations of each other may somehow skew their perceptions of others' feelings.
So ... some people may disagree but this is what I think when I see these two. At times it can be so painful. The people around them will be able to tell right away that they're both in love with each other but when you're the persons whose feelings are getting tangled in then things may not seem too clear to you ...
Anyway I just wanted to add my thought to the discussion regarding Ken-Rei relationship. I honestly hope for a happy ending but I understand too why people feel frustrated by Rei and also by Ken's failure to confess his feeling. If we are talking real life here the fact that they're childhood friends may be a factor in the failure of them becoming a great couple ...
Most childhood friends that I know they go through a lot of stuff together. They can become as close as siblings ... they know each other's fears, hopes, dreams, and desires. They know each other's picture of the perfect significant others ... which can lead to higher expectations. Maybe Rei is expecting something more from Ken just because she feels that he should've known her better than everybody else. On the other hand Ken feels that Rei should've been able to feel his feeling for her ... I mean they've been together forever so she should've known the kind of person he is. So the fact that both sides have higher expectations of each other may somehow skew their perceptions of others' feelings.
So ... some people may disagree but this is what I think when I see these two. At times it can be so painful. The people around them will be able to tell right away that they're both in love with each other but when you're the persons whose feelings are getting tangled in then things may not seem too clear to you ...
What you say seems logical to me, but I'm not really convinced that the decisive action will come from Ken in the last episode;sakurachan wrote:I don't know. It's very hard for me to see how Rei can, in one episode, turns around completely and go with Ken. I don't see what Ken can do to change her stand anyway.Graymouse wrote:@joe Have you watch the "dark episodes" yet? Its Friday already here in Japan and you know what that means.....3 more days until Tada gets dumped and Ken become the winner just like he predicted waaay back in episode 3!
Look. If there is anything Ken can still do, something that Rei is still waiting for, then she would've been still waiting for Ken. However, this is not the case.
Back in episode 6, she already gave that up. She moved on. And she is the kind of person who stays her course, as commented by Eri a few times in the past. It would be very much out of her character to go breakup with Tada at their wedding and runs off with Ken.
The writers will need some very drastic event to take place, like Ken getting run over by a bus chasing after Rei or something, in order to change her course. Anything less would make the story rushed and inconsistent.
I dunno if you already have seen this, or may be already added on this thread, but I thought it may be interesting :
A vid showing Yamapi's birthday celebration on set of Prodai...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRiE512NRic
A vid showing Yamapi's birthday celebration on set of Prodai...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRiE512NRic
master wrote:What you say seems logical to me, but I'm not really convinced that the decisive action will come from Ken in the last episode;sakurachan wrote:I don't know. It's very hard for me to see how Rei can, in one episode, turns around completely and go with Ken. I don't see what Ken can do to change her stand anyway.Graymouse wrote:@joe Have you watch the "dark episodes" yet? Its Friday already here in Japan and you know what that means.....3 more days until Tada gets dumped and Ken become the winner just like he predicted waaay back in episode 3!
Look. If there is anything Ken can still do, something that Rei is still waiting for, then she would've been still waiting for Ken. However, this is not the case.
Back in episode 6, she already gave that up. She moved on. And she is the kind of person who stays her course, as commented by Eri a few times in the past. It would be very much out of her character to go breakup with Tada at their wedding and runs off with Ken.
The writers will need some very drastic event to take place, like Ken getting run over by a bus chasing after Rei or something, in order to change her course. Anything less would make the story rushed and inconsistent.
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I got so desperate that I watched ep 10 without the subs. I can't understand more than 10 words of Japanese. But the inflections and acting in this show are done so well that the meaning really came across.Graymouse wrote:@JOE.
Notice that she still refers to Tada-san as Tada-san instead of Tetsuo but refers to Ken with his first name instead of Iwaze-san or Iwaze-chan? Does that mean anything? Is it common to refer to the guy that you are about to marry and get intimate with in such a formal fashion? It just seems really awkward and stilted to me.
I don't know if I'll stand the wait for these subs. I think I'll have to. Lunargen has done an excellent job of these. And I want to see the finale in a version I fully understand.
WOW I never really thought about it like that BUT you are SOOO right. Dang now I want to watch DZ again.
I actually liked Masami and Yamapi a bit better in DZ, because they really did seem like two teenagers who grew up together and weren't sure what to do next. There was terrific physical tension there. Also both had great hair!
I've had to kinda project the DZ situation onto Ken/Rei; my feeling is most of the ProDai viewers (i.e. Yamapi and Masami fans) have already seen DZ and probably Nobuta, and have done the same. Because of how ProDai's narrative is set up, you're not allowed to let their situation organically develop in front of you. The show intentionally uses our memories of Pi's other shows to complete the "emotional history" of the story.
It's weird, though. During DZ, I was really rooting for the childhood friends. During H2 (and the other Adachi shows), I was REALLY rooting for the childhood friends. Heck, even Taiyou No Uta, I actually thought the chemistry between the actors depicting the childhood friend played better than with Kaoru Amane.
For ProDai, I just feel so noncommitted. I almost want to tell Ken every episode to enjoy your time with Rei and love her the best you can. Don't worry about confessing, just enjoy the moment and make some more good memories.
For the most part, I've enjoyed Rei's relationships with both guys. I just don't enjoy Rei.
For all you Tada pushers out there I just want to make one comment.
In my mind, neither guy is "better" or "worse" for Rei; this isn't a contest or game. This is about Rei trying to disclose what's in her heart. Even if she chose Ken in the end, she has to do it after arriving at real honesty in her heart. Not because Ken "won" her. Not because Ken "deserves" Rei more. Likewise if she stayed with Tada leaving behind a well of regret, then I'd hate her for that too.
Through my eyes Tada told Rei about everything Rei needs to know to dump him. Tada is a type of guy who lives only in the present and dreams of the future. Rei is a type of girl who the past is very important to her.
Right . . . but that presumes we know what type of girl Rei really is, and what she really wants. And fine, you may say "easy, she wants Ken, she just wasn't brave enough to admit it." But what does that mean? What does she want from Ken? What did she want from him? How did she really see their history or their relationship?
I don't blame ken for not knowing these things. She's never eluded to it with anybody but Tada of all people, the one stranger to her clique, her history, really her as anything but the young adult.
I mean they've been together forever so she should've known the kind of person he is. So the fact that both sides have higher expectations of each other may somehow skew their perceptions of others' feelings.
What's interesting to me is that Ken and Rei aren't really best friends. In almost every junai/childhood friendship drama, the childhood friends are either best friends or almost brother/sister. Even if they fight, they fight with a lot of private jokes and a lot of emotional generosity and a lot of communication. That's what we the audience are meant to feel between them, and what irks the love rivals in the story.
H2 was such a perfect model for this. In that story, there's scenes here and there where the lead male character expresses such a deep, delicate anguish over the childhood friend that he loved, and there's these knowing, empowering looks that she throws at him, coming from some deep faith.
Ken and Rei are a wrinkle away from that. They've been around together forever, but they've also fought and misunderstood each other pretty much forever too. They're not the conventional childhood friends; they're neither here nor there. It complicated what Rei wanted to do with their friendship, and it frustrates Ken now because he can't trust that being himself will be enough around her.
That works in real life too, btw. The childhood relationship is appealing to men because your soulmate grew with you and became a part of your becoming from child to adult. They are a part of you that an adult relationship can't. The childhood friendship is appealing to women because your soulmate can speak to you and share moments with you that an adult relationship without a past can't. The subversion here is that while the former is certainly true for Ken, the latter isn't true for Rei. Ken wants to tell Rei that he and she are of one mind. Tada is viewed as the enemy because he's literally taking a piece of Ken's life away from him. Rei, however, thinks "if that were true, then why has it been so hard between us for 15 years?!?" With Tada, she practices the communication and "new to each other" sensitivity that she couldn't with Ken. That doesn't mean Rei should choose Tada; rather, I wished she at least tried the same with Ken, actually talking to him, actually listening to each other.
Maybe Rei is expecting something more from Ken just because she feels that he should've known her better than everybody else.
Mm hmm. Eri even points this out to Rei; she expects him to read her mind.
I'm genuinely curious to know which scenes led you to form that impression.
It's there even before Rei formally met Tada. She half notices him down the hall, and later on, the way she talks back at him, quietly subverts teacher-student. And the way he was genuinely disturbed by her comments, it was all very well done.
Their friendship or relationship has always been the changes they've impacted upon each other, for better or worse.. Perhaps they should have stayed as friends, but I really enjoyed watching their interaction.
Really, all three leads have acted well with each other. if I were Rei, I'd still choose Ken in the end, but then I wouldn't have said yes to one guy and flip-flopped at the altar. Not unless Simon and Garfunkel are our wedding band.
*groan* I didn't want to get into this discussion because i was trying to maintain an upbeat mood in the thread going into the finale. Buuuut no. Somebody just had to briing it up. So anyway, Ken and Rei will end up together, and the only source of suspense for me is how that's going to happen. The writers are this close to creating a classic, but they can still screw it up with a cheezy ending. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I don't know exactly how it's going to come down and that's a good thing. Up to this point, the writers have shown nothing but a very deft, subtle touch. Although the preview may indicate that they've written themselves into a corner, we just have to trust that the writers that have skilfully carried us this far into this fantasy will maintain that same level of panache and style to the very end. I'll wash my hands of the whole mess if and when they screw up. But until then they've given me reason for doubt.
Edit: Jeez, I meant to say "no reason for doubt." They have given us no reason to doubt them.
Edit: Jeez, I meant to say "no reason for doubt." They have given us no reason to doubt them.
Last edited by joeboygo on Jun 22nd, '07, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.
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I've decided to take a leap of faith and just trust the writers. Since they've done such a good job so far, I see no reason to doubt them. Actually I probably decided that back when I started watching this drama, because let's face it, this is a really weird story, with the yosei (am I the only one who thinks he is cute?) and the going back in time. Making that work is a huge accomplishment to me. So I have to believe that they will make the ending work too. And if they don't I'll just have to go over there and kick some butt. Ne?
Well in two more days we will either be A: Happy as a tornado in a trailer park, or B: mad as hell! I too will leave the end of this drama in the hands of the trusted writters! Good luck Kenzo!!!!!!!No_Moon wrote:translation of it:kilaalaa wrote:Episode 11 Preview Spoiler
Last edited by Graymouse on Jun 23rd, '07, 04:19, edited 2 times in total.
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Well, I'm pretty sure the writers will not have this story end up with Rei staying married with Tada. Otherwise, it would just make the ending too melodramatic and the whole story completely pointless.Graymouse wrote: Well in two more days we will either be A: Happy as a tornado in a trailer park, or B: mad ass hell! I too will leave the end of this drama in the hands of the trusted writters! Good luck Kenzo!!!!!!!
The only question is how convincing is this final twist that the writers have come up with, to bring Rei and Ken together.
My thought of what may happen:
I've been goofing off at work, poring over the previews for any subtle clues. This is all I could come up with.
Based on these observations, it looks to me that whatever conclusion we end up with was planned from the start. It isn't the result of some last minute re-write, because if that hallway scene from episode 1 is any indication, the writers have been setting up the climactic sequence of events since the beginning of the show. I may or may not like what they eventually serve up, but it gives me some comfort to know that a lot of thought and advance planning went into it. So let's sit back and enjoy the last installment as best we could, and hope for the best.
Even in the last Episode Ken will fail his mission, Rei still marries Tada and the Fairy turns towards the camera and gives a moral speech like:
"If you're awarded ten times the chance to change the past, don't waste them on your stupid childhood friend like this Idiot here... do something useful!"
If he only had once rooted for Eri he probably got her by now... I mean, Tsuru is not much to beat
"If you're awarded ten times the chance to change the past, don't waste them on your stupid childhood friend like this Idiot here... do something useful!"
If he only had once rooted for Eri he probably got her by now... I mean, Tsuru is not much to beat
You're joking, right?Tass wrote:Even in the last Episode Ken will fail his mission, Rei still marries Tada and the Fairy turns towards the camera and gives a moral speech like:
"If you're awarded ten times the chance to change the past, don't waste them on your stupid childhood friend like this Idiot here... do something useful!"
If he only had once rooted for Eri he probably got her by now... I mean, Tsuru is not much to beat
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I realize I was clutching at straws there, but why symbolize something you can pretty much show? The audience can see the yosei. And why have it happen at that spot and at that moment? I'm fresh out of ideas.aatm wrote:pretty sure that
When you sign in, the banquet hall would be to your left, which is to their right because they are facing you. They looked to the right (towards the reception) because something that displaced a lot of air blew past them and seemed headed in that direction. Hence it would appear that the apparition came in through the entrance and turned left just like the other guests. If, as you say, the yosei can pop in and out anyplace like a gopher head, why bother with the fancy wind effect? Yes, I lknow I'm getting silly.aatm wrote:
I'm guessing Tada said "今から、客気 を しない" "henceforth, don't be rash," kinda liike "act like a grown-up, you're a married woman now." I'm trying to make him sound as patronizing as possible. (Edit: there's no such expression. wrong again.)aatm wrote:
Now it's time for my rant. You Yamapi fangirls had best stay away from the following diatribe lest we have an intense disagreement. (WARNING: STRONG LANGUAGE)aatm wrote:probably been said before, but i just thought i'd say my version, or 2nd the person who said it before me.
@ Love Angel - that looks like the pipe organ behind her.
Last edited by joeboygo on Jun 23rd, '07, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
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@ Lunargen
that's totally okay that you don't translate the previews, and yes, it does make sense as to why as well. if i had half a clue as to what was being said as you and joeboygo and others do, well...i'd halfway be in the know. =) and I personally want to thank you for your subs. they're great!
@ Sakurachan
while your idea for the start of season 2 is very...well, what it is...=)...i hope that there will be a less traumatizing ending...and one that is more final than what yamapi did last in Kurosagi...i mean, what the heck what that?
@ Joeboygo
don't get me wrong. i love your idea. i think that would be an extremely well written foreshadowing. just...i don't know...we'll see in about 48 hours or so. =)
maybe for the same reason he appears with a giant spotlight and handel's hallelujah chorus? maybe. or you could be right, although, if the displacement was caused by something from episode 11...
You're probably right. There probably won't be an outright confession, but perhaps he'll just make a passing remark caught only by Rei, as Tada is too dense and inobservant to notice anything of importance, as was demonstrated by his indifference towards Rei's past.
that's totally okay that you don't translate the previews, and yes, it does make sense as to why as well. if i had half a clue as to what was being said as you and joeboygo and others do, well...i'd halfway be in the know. =) and I personally want to thank you for your subs. they're great!
@ Sakurachan
while your idea for the start of season 2 is very...well, what it is...=)...i hope that there will be a less traumatizing ending...and one that is more final than what yamapi did last in Kurosagi...i mean, what the heck what that?
@ Joeboygo
joeboygo wrote:
don't get me wrong. i love your idea. i think that would be an extremely well written foreshadowing. just...i don't know...we'll see in about 48 hours or so. =)
joeboygo wrote:
maybe for the same reason he appears with a giant spotlight and handel's hallelujah chorus? maybe. or you could be right, although, if the displacement was caused by something from episode 11...
joeboygo wrote:
You're probably right. There probably won't be an outright confession, but perhaps he'll just make a passing remark caught only by Rei, as Tada is too dense and inobservant to notice anything of importance, as was demonstrated by his indifference towards Rei's past.
aatm wrote:
I'm actually betting it was her jiji to the rescue. I'm still trying to decide whether an appearance by his ghost in the finale would be cool or way over the top.
Grrr. That Tada vexes me to the very end. What did he say in the preview? Could it have been "今から, 壁 を しない" - from now on, make no walls [between us]? It's driving me nuts. At least I'm sure it's a noun. Hey paciensia queen, when you're finished cooking the bibingka we could use your help. What's your best guess? Anybody?
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Just give us the happy ending, dammit.
Previews just give way too much out. Unless the writers were trying to fool us, it pretty much has "Rei will leave Tada" written all over it. >_> Those writers better not be playing tricks though cause I will be royally pissed. by now I'm at about 80% sure about a happy ending just because of the whole "Ken-zou!" scream/yell/shout. She wouldn't go back to calling him Kenzou for nothing.
Previews just give way too much out. Unless the writers were trying to fool us, it pretty much has "Rei will leave Tada" written all over it. >_> Those writers better not be playing tricks though cause I will be royally pissed. by now I'm at about 80% sure about a happy ending just because of the whole "Ken-zou!" scream/yell/shout. She wouldn't go back to calling him Kenzou for nothing.
yowza! ahahha your guess is as good as mine my friend. i've been bleeding my japanese skills to death with that one to no avail. even in my subs i put them as "kaki" cause god knows what that means. heck we don't even know who tada's referring to T.Tjoeboygo wrote:aatm wrote:
I'm actually betting it was her jiji to the rescue. I'm still trying to decide whether an appearance by his ghost in the finale would be cool or way over the top.
Grrr. That Tada vexes me to the very end. What did he say in the preview? Could it have been "今から, 壁 を しない" - from now on, make no walls [between us]? It's driving me nuts. At least I'm sure it's a noun. Hey paciensia queen, when you're finished cooking the bibingka we could use your help. What's your best guess? Anybody?
here are some candidate meanings though:
じじの霊 might be a little too much...と思います。 but that's just me.
友達を電話を書きました。 日本人です、 so maybe she'll be able to have a better idea of what 多田さん said. That is NOT meant AT ALL to say that anyone here doesn't know what they're saying, cuz my japanese is the worst of all. =P I just thought I'd try to get some help, but as Lunargen said earlier, it's hard to understand without knowing the context.
*sigh*...
友達を電話を書きました。 日本人です、 so maybe she'll be able to have a better idea of what 多田さん said. That is NOT meant AT ALL to say that anyone here doesn't know what they're saying, cuz my japanese is the worst of all. =P I just thought I'd try to get some help, but as Lunargen said earlier, it's hard to understand without knowing the context.
*sigh*...
that depends on what type of show you like. just about everyone here loves it like their second born...well...I shouldn't speak for everyone else...and i don't have any kids, but if i did, and had a second born, watching this is probably like having a second born.
i'm totally kidding. it's one of, if not my favorite drama that i've ever seen, but obviously that's not to say it's for everyone. give it a couple episodes and if you're sure that you think it's boring then at least you gave it a try.
i'm totally kidding. it's one of, if not my favorite drama that i've ever seen, but obviously that's not to say it's for everyone. give it a couple episodes and if you're sure that you think it's boring then at least you gave it a try.
like me I am wishing for happy ending too ha~ha~
Proposal Daisakusen :: http://www.bloggang.com/mainblog.php?id=miss-josephins
Proposal Daisakusen :: http://www.bloggang.com/mainblog.php?id=miss-josephins
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aatm wrote
Ganbatte Ken!
Move over Tada!
We all know who deserves to win here right?
I don't think Tada is indifferent to Rei's past. I think he is intentionally avoiding the subject, because allowing Rei to talk about it would help her understand the feelings for Ken that she has been suppressing all this time. She brings up the subject beacuse she wants Tada's help in sorting out her own feelings, and he declines because he knows - or senses - that he might lose her if he allows her to talk about it. So they're both acting out of concern for themselves, only, I don't think Rei realizes what she's doing (looking for a way out). Tada on the other hand is older and wiser and probably knows exactly what he's doing, although he's doing a pretty good job of playing stupid. I think he knows he caught a lucky break when Rei agreed to date and marry him and he's trying hard not to rock the boat. He already had his miracle and now he wants to maintain status quo. Ken has the much harder job of changing things and is still searching for his miracle.You're probably right. There probably won't be an outright confession, but perhaps he'll just make a passing remark caught only by Rei, as Tada is too dense and inobservant to notice anything of importance, as was demonstrated by his indifference towards Rei's past.
Ganbatte Ken!
Move over Tada!
We all know who deserves to win here right?
Let's do process of elimination. I think it's a noun, because if it were an adjective we'd have heard "ni" or "ku" instead of "wo," and if it were a verb it would have been conjugated to the "-te" form. I'm almost sure my first guess of "kakki" is wrong because it doesn't look like that word is commonly used with the verb suru. He's not really ordering her to stop doing something, because otherwise he would have said "suru na" or "shinai de." It looks like he's saying that from that point on, something just isn't anymore. Could it be 火急 then ? Maybe he sees her rushing off somewhere and stops her just before the exit, saying "hey what's the rush, you're with me now so take it easy. "lunargen wrote: yowza! ahahha your guess is as good as mine my friend. i've been bleeding my japanese skills to death with that one to no avail. even in my subs i put them as "kaki" cause god knows what that means. heck we don't even know who tada's referring to T.T
here are some candidate meanings though:okay people, place your bets!
Or instead of "k" perhaps it was actually a "b," as in kabe? "From now on there are no walls [between us]." (?) AAARGH!!!!!
aatm, tomodatchi ni denwa shimasen ka? Tanomu 'nda zo.
@joe: @lunargen: I was lucky enough to marry a japanese lady who makes a really nice living out of translating stuff from Japanese to English so since there has been such a debate about what he said I decided to watch episode 10 with my wife. We watched the preview as well and according to my wife Tada said "now do you want to make a bet (wager)?" "Kaki" "kakki" sp? wager/bet or "Now, lets make a bet(wager)? I thought that I would help. Please forgive me if I stepped on anyones toes.
BTW: Just over 1 day left until the finale and we can finally see Tada LOSE and Ken WIN for a change!
BTW: Just over 1 day left until the finale and we can finally see Tada LOSE and Ken WIN for a change!
Last edited by Graymouse on Jun 24th, '07, 02:54, edited 1 time in total.
I've been told by a friend in LJ that that's how the chinese subs translated them, that it's "now let's bet etc etc etc"... well, if someone japanese had said that that is what it means, then i won't contest that heehee and don't worry! you're not stepping on toes! at least we knoe what it means now hehehe
lunargen wrote:I've been told by a friend in LJ that that's how the chinese subs translated them, that it's "now let's bet etc etc etc"... well, if someone japanese had said that that is what it means, then i won't contest that heehee and don't worry! you're not stepping on toes! at least we knoe what it means now hehehe
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Regarding to what Tada was saying to Rei in the preview for ep. 11, I'm hearing
「今から、かけおちしない。」
which is somewhat vague to translate without the context. My best guess is
"From now on, don't run away."
「今から、かけおちしない。」
which is somewhat vague to translate without the context. My best guess is
"From now on, don't run away."
Last edited by sakurachan on Jun 24th, '07, 06:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Ah thank you, Graymouse, for marrying somebody Japanese. Every home should have one. So it was actually a question "Kake wo shinai ka?" But of course, the Japanese omit the last syllable to confuse the westerners! How diabolically clever. And see how they completely fooled our subber. "賭" wasn't even on her list. Tsk Tsk. Now let's see them come up with a clever ending. Tada's statement adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. What could he be talking about? If he's challenging his bride to something, it doesn't sound very playful.Graymouse wrote:@joe: @lunargen: I was lucky enough to marry a japanese lady who makes a really nice living out of translating stuff from Japanese to English so since there has been such a debate about what he said I decided to watch episode 10 with my wife. We watched the preview as well and according to my wife Tada said "now do you want to make a bet (wager)?" "Kaki" "kakki" sp? wager/bet or "Now, lets make a bet(wager)? I thought that I would help. Please forgive me if I stepped on anyones toes.
BTW: Just over 1 day left until the finale and we can finally see Tada LOSE and Ken WIN for a change!
Now to all you Tada boosters, nothing personal but, we're cheering for different teams, and if anybody's going to crash and burn, I'd rather it be you than me. I'm with most everybody here in wanting a happy ending. But I want to win properly, not at all costs.
I guess I'm still trying to rationalize how I ever got hooked on a Yamapi dorama. It probably won't happen again, but I'm glad I found something in common with the bunch of you fangirls, 'cuz I had a great time hanging out with you on this thread. Just think: had it not been for this show we would have been like a pair of Tada's parallel lines. It was fun intersecting with the lot of you these past few weeks in a way I could never have imagined just two months ago.
To you Yamapikai, I have to say, your man did a good job. I was prepared to despise him as much as that little trollop, Kame, but to my surprise he turned out to be a credible lead who could carry a show on his own, and this comes from a guy that is naturally skeptical of his type. He's not yet as skilled an actor as Masami, but this is something he can improve with practice. And like few other actors in his generation, he's taller than she is, so she's going to need him more than he needs her.
(Kame Fans: Do not Read)
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I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "aren't you going to run away now?" or "aren't you going to elope now?"joeboygo wrote:So it was actually a question "Kake wo shinai ka?" But of course, the Japanese omit the last syllable to confuse the westerners! How diabolically clever. And see how they completely fooled our subber. "賭" wasn't even on her list. Tsk Tsk. Now let's see them come up with a clever ending. Tada's statement adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. What could he be talking about? If he's challenging his bride to something, it doesn't sound very playful.
Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
Last edited by sakurachan on Jun 24th, '07, 08:28, edited 1 time in total.
that would have to be the most fitting guess as to what tada refers to thus far, but the only thing that worries me about that is, how can tada say that with almost a beaming kind of face? i mean, if i were him i'd be all daggers already (but then Tada doesn't have normal emotional capacity so i don't really know )sakurachan wrote:I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "are you not going to run away now?" or "are you not going to elope now?"joeboygo wrote:So it was actually a question "Kake wo shinai ka?" But of course, the Japanese omit the last syllable to confuse the westerners! How diabolically clever. And see how they completely fooled our subber. "?" wasn't even on her list. Tsk Tsk. Now let's see them come up with a clever ending. Tada's statement adds a whole new wrinkle to the situation. What could he be talking about? If he's challenging his bride to something, it doesn't sound very playful.
Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
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@ joeboygo - AWWWWWWWWWWW....... *hugs* hahah your little speech right there made me all sentimental. we ourselves here have almost turned into that same rowdy 5nin we see every week!(complete with the fights and occasional tantrums to boot, heck, we call each other names here now even! ) it so sad it has to end (i'd wish it were longer if only i wasn't the one subbing!!), for sure we are never gonna see each other again! heheh i have a feeling you, graymouse and belleza will see much of each other, i feel that you three have a flair for the more tasteful dramas, whilst I will go fangirling away on the usual clicheic crap jdramas can throw me (yes i admit that i have bad taste, i never claimed to have a good one in the first place ) (siya nga pala, i've been meaning to ask this, tiga saan ka sa atin? Ateneo, UP, LaSalle? )
and of course, kame *cue twilight zone music*, will never cough up the same acting prowess Pipi has. *Yes go ahead and smite me Kame fans.* Heck, the only reason I became a serious yamapi fan is because of his acting! (and really, im not kidding. with his personality, I figured he had LOADS of trouble with the akirayaku) That's why I believed even before this aired that Yamapi will deliver. I don't think Johnny-san will trust such a dorama just to anybody if he doesn't believe them to be good enough. (and we know that Johnny can be a good judge of talent. *i say CAN because he does miss sometimes coughakamecough* Case in point: Tegoshi)
Good lord, I remember reading somewhere that this will end with Rei wanting to timeslip and thus a season two?!?! God forbid. Just give Pi his happy ending and I will be a happy pathetic fangirl. Cheers.
I'll join in on the Kame bashing. =) After watching Nobuta wo Produce and Tatta Hitotsu no Koi...I just find his acting a little bland. I found YamaPi much more enjoyable in NwP than Kame.
And yes, the elope question seems to make more sense. One thing I mentioned before was that, it seems like Tada's kinda ticked when he says that. Sure it's a smile...of sorts...but it seems like it's a "I'm freaking ticked off" smile.
But we'll see...it's getting closer...
And yes, the elope question seems to make more sense. One thing I mentioned before was that, it seems like Tada's kinda ticked when he says that. Sure it's a smile...of sorts...but it seems like it's a "I'm freaking ticked off" smile.
But we'll see...it's getting closer...
Ta-da Tada!! You've been just left at the altar!! Anyhoo . . .
Oddly, I entertained for about 5 minutes whether Tada was really Ken from the future, rectifying the situation of Ken from the present, who's trying to rewrite Ken from the past. And that in fact, the future was an appocalyptic mess where soccer was popular in America.
Anyway, if they did Proposal Season 2, have Erika Sawajiri play her terminally ill rival. Or, better yet, let her rival be Kame. Hallelujah No Chance!
If it means punishing Rei for torturing her childhood love and leading on Dr. Fujita Naohito, I'm all for it.Good lord, I remember reading somewhere that this will end with Rei wanting to timeslip and thus a season two?!?! God forbid. Just give Pi his happy ending and I will be a happy pathetic fangirl. Cheers.
Oddly, I entertained for about 5 minutes whether Tada was really Ken from the future, rectifying the situation of Ken from the present, who's trying to rewrite Ken from the past. And that in fact, the future was an appocalyptic mess where soccer was popular in America.
Anyway, if they did Proposal Season 2, have Erika Sawajiri play her terminally ill rival. Or, better yet, let her rival be Kame. Hallelujah No Chance!
Kame's hair has terrific acting chops though. I really liked him in Nobuta, but I think Nobuta was kind of a lucky shot for everybody involved. My favorite Kat-tun actor is definitely Junno. He always looks "just happy to be there" (and he and Ishihara Saotmi are just DARLING in Hanayome!) If he wasn't almost 6 foot, his nose would be tall.I'll join in on the Kame bashing. =) After watching Nobuta wo Produce and Tatta Hitotsu no Koi...I just find his acting a little bland. I found YamaPi much more enjoyable in NwP than Kame.
Ah see. I don't mind Kame. No, I don't think he can match Pi, either in singing or acting, but he's better than a lot of the JE talennt out there. Like Akanishi Jin. Sorry, I'm a Jin hater - I'll freely admit that.
Pi is one of the better actors in JE. That's because he wanted to star in dramas from such a young age. He didn't like singing too much (he's good at it, but not great). He likes to act. And actually, for NwP a lot of Akira's character was his own interpretation to bring the character more to life.
I started watching Pi's dramas since Long Love Letter. I liked that drama and his part in it. While there are a few that I've missed, he's improved tremendously over the years.
And while Tegoshi may not be a great actor, he *does* have one of the best singing voices in JE. Remember too, He's really young too and has only acted in a few dramas. In time, if he chooses to keep acting, then he may become better at it.
As for ProDai... It may not be my favorite drama of all time, but I really enjoyed it. I don't rewatch the episodes like I do many of the other dramas, but that's probably because it isn't complete.
Pi is one of the better actors in JE. That's because he wanted to star in dramas from such a young age. He didn't like singing too much (he's good at it, but not great). He likes to act. And actually, for NwP a lot of Akira's character was his own interpretation to bring the character more to life.
I started watching Pi's dramas since Long Love Letter. I liked that drama and his part in it. While there are a few that I've missed, he's improved tremendously over the years.
And while Tegoshi may not be a great actor, he *does* have one of the best singing voices in JE. Remember too, He's really young too and has only acted in a few dramas. In time, if he chooses to keep acting, then he may become better at it.
As for ProDai... It may not be my favorite drama of all time, but I really enjoyed it. I don't rewatch the episodes like I do many of the other dramas, but that's probably because it isn't complete.
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Is kakeochi a conjugation or inflection of the verb "kakeru" (to run) or is it a noun? If it is "kakeru" why didn't he just say "kakenai" ? Is this another one of those strange non-grammatical idioms? Can you give me the kanji so I could look it up? It's been killing me because I couldn't find it in my jiten. The closest thing I could find is "kakeashi" which is like the double-time in marching. Help me out because I tend to go nuts when I get stumped this long.sakurachan wrote: I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "aren't you going to run away now?" or "aren't you going to elope now?"
Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
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I've always thought of it as a set phrase, but I suppose you can think of it as the compound form of the noun form of the two verbs kakeru (駆ける) and ochiru (落ちる). Together, you get kakeochi (駆落ち).joeboygo wrote:Is kakeochi a conjugation or inflection of the verb kakeru (to run) or is it a noun? Or is it one of those strange non-grammatical idioms? Can you give me the kanji so I could look it up? It's been killing me because I couldn't find it in my jiten. The closest thing I could find is "kakeashi" which is like the double-time in marching.sakurachan wrote: I doubt it was 「賭」 or a bet that he was saying. I'm hearing "ima kara, kakeochi shinai [ka]" or in English "aren't you going to run away now?" or "aren't you going to elope now?"
Make more sense this way, no? Rei tells Tada she's still having feelings for Ken, and so Tada asks her if she wants to elope with Ken now.
The verb phrase is 駆落ちする. The noun form 駆落ち usually refers to a woman who leaves behind her family either for another man or for some other reasons. I don't ever remember seeing it used for a man though.
Ah thank you, thank you. I have just added to my vocabulary, and you can bet it's going to stick. This is one i'm going to remember. Again, thank you.sakurachan wrote: I've always thought of it as a set phrase, but I suppose you can think of it as the compound form of the noun form of the two verbs kakeru (駆ける) and ochiru (落ちる). Together, you get kakeochi (駆落ち).
The verb phrase is 駆落ちする. The noun form 駆落ち usually refers to a woman who leaves behind her family either for another man or for some other reasons. I don't ever remember seeing it used for a man though.
Edit: The dictionary classifies it as a noun that takes the auxillary verb suru without the particle "wo". In its verb form, Kakeochisuru means "to elope." Persons engaged in the act of eloping, regardless of gender, are called "kakeochisha" If you take out the last kanji "sha" (person), kakeochi refers to a woman that leaves her husband, but that usage is probably fairly recent or still considered slang, because it is not yet included in my version of the big obunsha, circa 2002. (I do need an update, demo takasugimas yo!). The old meaning of the noun "kakeochi" simply refers to the act of eloping. What remains unclear to me is whether the verb "kakeochisuru" as currently used automatically conveys the connotation of spouse dumping or if it still just means to elope.
I'm nerding out on this because... isn't this word at least mildly insulting then? Is it polite to say it to any married woman's face, particularly your own wife? Also, the way Tada uses it seems to add an extra negative implication. If he was just asking her if she was going to leave him, he would have said "kakeochisuru [ka]" (are you leaving/eloping). But since he appears to say "kakeochishinai [ka]" (won't you leave/elope) doesn't it sound like he's inviting her to dump him? Plus, why "ima kara" (from now) and not "ima ni" or just plain "ima" (now)?
Help.
Only question I got is this. If the Lord of the Nerds Tada said that, "won't you leave" Why on Earth would he be smiling while saying that. To me that sounds like he is just letting her go which in my opinon is a very lame way to end this drama. I will be extremely upset tonight if that happens. I believe I predicted this was going to happen, that Tada will step aside and that the writters are going to do that old clache "if you really lover her you will let her go" To me that is BULLSHIT! it has been an intresting emotional roller coaster but to end it like that is just plain stupid. Perhaps I have high expectations but after being led on for more than 10 weeks shouldn't I have high expectations for a GRAND FINALE? For it to end that way is just plain insulting.
Well, nonetheless it will air in less than 10 hours. I wonder if this thread is going to be over 120 pages?
Well, nonetheless it will air in less than 10 hours. I wonder if this thread is going to be over 120 pages?
Last edited by Graymouse on Jun 25th, '07, 01:47, edited 1 time in total.
But graymouse, tell us how you really feel. (I kid, I kid)Graymouse wrote:Only question I got is this. If the Lord of the Nerds Tada said that, "won't you leave" Why on Earth would he be smiling while saying that. To me that sounds like he is just letting her go which in my opinon is a very lame way to end this drama. I will be extremely upset tonight if that happens. I believe I predicted this was going to happen, that Tada will step aside and that the writters are going to do that old clache "if you really lover her you will let her go" To me that is BULLSHIT! it has been an intresting emotional roller coaster but to end it like that is just plain stupid. Perhaps I have high expectations but after being led on for more than 10 weeks shouldn't I have high expectations for a GRAND FINALE? For it to end that way is just plain insulting.
Well, nonetheless it will air in less than 10 hours.
Seriously, I'm looking forward to your reactions tonight. I don't think I want to spoil it this time, but I will want to know if you are satisfied, dissatisfied or ticked off. If I may impose upon you one last time, could you preface each update with a graymouse mood meter? I want to be able to plot your emo on a graph for each stage of the show. Onegai shimasu.
I remain confident that the writer and director will give Yamashita-kun the proper hero treatment and give us an ending we will be happy with. They have the highest rated show this season, and they know what the fans are expecting. They also know who these fans are, and should be aware that they probably won't take kindly to a WTF ending.
Given the current Japanese penchant for tuning in only to the beginning and the end of a series, I predict the finale will break the 20% barrier. If it breaks the 25% barrier, I also predict that this will not be the last pairing between Yamashita and Masami. They have the same level of chemistry that Kimutaku had with Matsu Takako, so I'm sure their respective agencies will try to exploit that chemistry to the fullest.
I'm counting the hours!
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@joeboygo: like lunargen said.... awww! i havnt been able to spend that much time in this thread but im very glad that guys have gotten into this drama. and one of my guy friends is really close with me and he's told me a lot of things about his feelings for this girl. so in a way....to see ken-zou keep losing really breaks my heart. (not just for the fact that he's yamapi ) but im sure that we're all gonna miss everyone from this thread bunches and bunches. i do wish that i could've spent more time with this thread but i didnt have that much time and i wanted to avoid all spoilers. tehee
ANYWAYSS :] ep 11 is getting closer and closer!! but i've gotta wait for subs so.......t.t i really do hope that no one leaves after monday and that there's still gonna be ppl left here after ep 11 is subbed so i can rant/squeel/discuss!!
oooh they BETTER not give us some random WTF ending that intitates a season 2 (As much as i LOVEE yamapi....the drama's gonna start dragging) and as a true yamapi fan.....he BETTER not lose to tada t.t but i dont even want him with rei (cuz she doesnt deserve him) .....sorry total bashing there
ANYWAYSS :] ep 11 is getting closer and closer!! but i've gotta wait for subs so.......t.t i really do hope that no one leaves after monday and that there's still gonna be ppl left here after ep 11 is subbed so i can rant/squeel/discuss!!
oooh they BETTER not give us some random WTF ending that intitates a season 2 (As much as i LOVEE yamapi....the drama's gonna start dragging) and as a true yamapi fan.....he BETTER not lose to tada t.t but i dont even want him with rei (cuz she doesnt deserve him) .....sorry total bashing there
Sure, the graymouse o' meter will be running throughout the finale.
I can't speak for everyone here in this thread but I will be here after episode 11 airs and a little after the subs are released. After all I would be very intrestest in everyones feelings on the ending.
9 hours to go!
Good luck KENZO!
I can't speak for everyone here in this thread but I will be here after episode 11 airs and a little after the subs are released. After all I would be very intrestest in everyones feelings on the ending.
9 hours to go!
Good luck KENZO!
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I too, think this topic ought to have at least a couple of days' worth of fat to chew before the time to move on arrives. This is a rare alignment of the planets and we don't know if or when it will happen again, so I'm in no hurry to bug out.
Graymouse, I share your concerns, but I don't think that scenario is likely. It's up to Rei to decide who she wants to be with and Tada can't make that decision for her. The script has clearly defined Rei as an independent and strong willed person who decides things for herself. So even if Tada tells her to go, she won't unless she wants to. And if she wants out, she will leave with or without Tada's blessings. I don't think the script writer will make such an amateurish mistake as to have one of his main characters act so out of character at the last minute.
That's why I think this episode will be Masami's star turn - her character is the center of gravity around which the entire plot will pivot. Who will she choose, and how will she decide? I don't think anybody here can say for sure, but it's reassuring that we could not have asked for a more skillful actress than Masami to convey the subtle nuances of Rei's climactic struggle to resolve her internal conflicts, leading to the final conclusion of the entire series.
That stupid broad had better not pick Tada.
Graymouse, I share your concerns, but I don't think that scenario is likely. It's up to Rei to decide who she wants to be with and Tada can't make that decision for her. The script has clearly defined Rei as an independent and strong willed person who decides things for herself. So even if Tada tells her to go, she won't unless she wants to. And if she wants out, she will leave with or without Tada's blessings. I don't think the script writer will make such an amateurish mistake as to have one of his main characters act so out of character at the last minute.
That's why I think this episode will be Masami's star turn - her character is the center of gravity around which the entire plot will pivot. Who will she choose, and how will she decide? I don't think anybody here can say for sure, but it's reassuring that we could not have asked for a more skillful actress than Masami to convey the subtle nuances of Rei's climactic struggle to resolve her internal conflicts, leading to the final conclusion of the entire series.
That stupid broad had better not pick Tada.
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hey did you guys just watch waratte iitomo on TV? (you - as in Japan.....)
YamaP and Masami were just there, as I predicted and I was looking for clues and then just as YamaP spoke holding the poster for the last ep, my stupid phone rang and bothered me! (needless to say I didnt pick it up, ha ha) but I missed what he said....did he give any clues?
damnit I was only watching it to get some clues.
love this thread and your comments btw. I will be on after the ep airs tonight to rea what you guys think....ha ha.
PS- I like Yamap's new hairstyle better.......
YamaP and Masami were just there, as I predicted and I was looking for clues and then just as YamaP spoke holding the poster for the last ep, my stupid phone rang and bothered me! (needless to say I didnt pick it up, ha ha) but I missed what he said....did he give any clues?
damnit I was only watching it to get some clues.
love this thread and your comments btw. I will be on after the ep airs tonight to rea what you guys think....ha ha.
PS- I like Yamap's new hairstyle better.......
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uhm, its really hard to explain!
its darker for sure, but not black. it has a few highlights (but not really blond) and its the same in the front,
on top its kinda short.....and in the back similar to what it was.
did I mention hard to explain? should've said impossible. Im sure someone will upload it somewhere.
just a few more hours......
its darker for sure, but not black. it has a few highlights (but not really blond) and its the same in the front,
on top its kinda short.....and in the back similar to what it was.
did I mention hard to explain? should've said impossible. Im sure someone will upload it somewhere.
just a few more hours......
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